Massive financial bailout fails in the House

Remember these people that Bush wanted to bail out are mostly already billionaires from before! But they dont want to spend their own precious money saving their own businesses, they want YOU and your children to pay for that!

I'm glad to see it was voted down for you and your childrens sake. After Bush we all knew there would be an economical crisis, take it like a man and learn from your mistakes.

I find it monstrously funny to find people on THIS SITE thinking that somehow this will all be ok....

what will it take for you to wake up? cause as I see it, if your not awake yet, you never will be.

this pointless and endless thread debating on who's gonna fix it, who's fault it is.... it really doesn't matter anymore..


we haven't seen anything yet.

(and no, thankfully im not some greedy american... but this situation effects the WHOLE world.)

Would you give 700 billion to Ralph Kramden (Bernanke) and Ed Norton (Paulson)? Why are these men even working for us? Oh, that's right, they're not!

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Amelie]

did anyone watch the colbert report on the 23rd?

my god was it funny

Colbert spoke about how Paulson spoke about what caused the crisis is to be discussed another day. And colbert said correct, we need to quickly give unchecked financial power to president and his appointees NOWWWW to implement a plan no one understands.

And then... later, much later, when the crisis is over or far far worse there will be plenty of time to see if this plan was a good idea if.... we could review the actions of the secretary which we can't.

This is the most important and irrecovable decision in american history.... let's make it in a panic.

I voted at cnn.com earlier today on their bailout poll. I just checked again and now they have reworded the question to confuse people:

Quick Vote
What do you think of the vote that rejected a $700 billion bailout for the U.S. economy?
Good news 48% 63008
Bad news 52% 67295
Total Votes: 130303
read related article »
This is not a scientific poll

This is the kind of trickery that the MSM uses to justify saying the majority of people actually want the bailout. Just my theory, watch and see.

reply to post by ohioriver


From Lou Dobbs

Do you believe today's Congressional vote against the Wall Street bailout is a victory for the American people and a rejection of the attempted extortion by corporate and political elites?
Yes 82% 11909
No 18% 2700
Total Votes: 14609
This is not a scientific poll

So depending on where you go and the demographic of the place you will get a different result.



[edit on 9/29/2008 by whatukno]

Glad to see somehow our voices were heard! I guess we know whos who know, huh?????

I am not gloating just yet because i have the feeling that since they couldnt ROB US, the administration will take it one way or another, RAPE is in the air!!!!!

Mark my words, they will get what they want.

Sometimes you just have to knock it all down and start all over.

Originally posted by hotbakedtater
No, it is partly the American citizens fault for buying so much junk they dont need on credit, and so many big houses they really couldnt afford to live in either.

Partly perhaps but American citizens also work longer hours per year than the Japanese and everyone else in the industrialized world. Frankly they may not have been able to afford it ( but who's to judge with 'easy' credit that many did somehow manage by working even longer) but that's hardly a argument when they were so diligently enabled by people they thought wouldn't have given them the money if they couldn't pay it back.

Wouldn't you take money from a lender presuming that they, of all people, will be watching their own backs as long as you did your best to pay on time? Would most have suspected that the banks were so reckless or that the ultimate plan were to sell their houses from right under them.

I think the biggest misunderstanding is that the average guy actually presumes that the capitalist are fully in control of this beast called 'financial markets' and that it's a reasonable/logical system that isn't doomed to repeated endless boom and bush cycles without serious and comprehensive regulation and powerful watchdog agencies.

In conclusion done be so hard on the grunts who are sadly going to do the vast majority of the bleeding! Let it not be said that capitalism doesn't consistently punish those who have actually, and foolishly. come to believe in it!

Stellar

As one squirrel said to another:



"Grab your nuts, this tree is going down!"




No matter what happens on Wall Street, folks are still going to be living, breathing, eating, and breeding down on Main Street.


Hang on to what's important, and don't let them see your fear.

reply to post by grimreaper797

Very good.

Your logic fits a connected system quite well and should serve to illustrate that the concept of 'we the people' in this case does not simply apply to 'we Americans' or 'we the oppressed tax payers' since the situation is no longer quite so victorian.

Unfortunately the concept of a global system currently appears to be out with the remit of the average tourists visa.

Finance as it stands is a global system... and when the monetary heart dies eventually even the toes will follow.

Its depressing that people relying on credit and people who have even unintentionally built their lives on the credit of an illusionary monetary system system think that letting the system that they depend on collapse is a good thing.... because clearly, when the debtors come close to collapse even their debtors can try to hold out on their debts.

A good win for the rule of law isn't it?
...Since such a collapse is surely to be absolute ala 'Fight Club'.

Debts removed and erased from the face of computerized all seeing all recording history.

There is the tragedy.

Land of the free from debt and owning your own home.

Simply because people wont have either.

To think otherwise is a fools errand, our own laws and agreements have already perscribed otherwise.

Bah! I have always wished to live in interesting times and this has more promise than most.
Lets sit back and see what happens next.

Originally posted by mybigunit
Wow I thought for SURE the government would pass this with ease. I guess a little bit of America still exists out there. This failure to pass really gives me hope. Suffer just like the rest of us take your hits when you lose and live it up when you make your gains.

Went to Wamu today... business as usual... door open accounts intact only a letter from the new CEO that things will be fine...

Excuse me but, eventually the system has to collapse anyway. Then the beast will come to power. This is unavoidable, but the speed at which it appears to be happening is a bit frightening. I'd be looking to get hit from another angle also....this may just be a hard jab, I think a hook or overhand right is coming.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
How are the companies going to afford to pump that oil out of the ground in russia with no credit? They have to raise capital constantly. How is the companies in china going to buy all this product to build these consumer products without credit?

Why on earth would the Russian government, and various other governments, need credit when they have oil revenue's to foot the bills? They do not have to raise capitol constantly because they are making hundreds of millions in profit. At worse this will mean that reinvestment in future exploration/drilling might suffer as more money will now be required to finance current debt. Credit will ALWAYS exists as long as we employ currencies of any variety and all regulators and others have to decide is how much you can provide in credit for each dollar you have. The problem with the current system isn't that credit is bad but that the financial system has provides thirty dollars in credit for each dollar in assets. Clearly this has to stop and clearly this can be stopped if profits are not required to keep climbing year on year to satisfy the illusion of miraculous growth.

As for consumers in China they earn salaries as provided by the companies which they will then employ to buy the various goods Chinese companies produce. This is pretty much economics 101 and you can stimulate amazing amounts of growth if you didn't spend a hundred billion Dollar ( or shall 700 hundred billion Yuan) buying up foreign debt so that their consumers can afford your goods. At this stage a US recession will still hurt China but probably not as much US centered thinking would have us all believe. Some people clearly have not heard of the Euro; you know that currency that massive trading bloc in Europe uses?

Stellar

reply to post by alienj

Its Sad when the majority leadership in congress presents their own bill and cannot even pass it, it shows what a joke congress has become. I am not a republican but I have never seen a Republican lead congress act so shameless and out of control as this Congress has.

This isn't a Republican lead Congress. Democrats took over in 2006. Are you talking about Pelosi and the Democrats. I will agree that they are all shameless and out of control.

I read this earlier. This is tremendous news!!! A nice big slap in the face to the NWO. It may just be our politicians are just stupid and not crooked. But maybe not as stupid as I thought.

I had just given up completely in our country yesterday, but like some of you said earlier this gives hope for America. It may not be possible but this could sway a lot of voters to Nader or Barr, seeing how both Dem/Rep. candidates are more or less for the bailout.

I may be blowing this out of proportion, but could this be start of the revolution? This just seems really big for some reason.

Exciting! As you can tell from my erratic post!

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by ohioriver

 

From Lou Dobbs

Do you believe today's Congressional vote against the Wall Street bailout is a victory for the American people and a rejection of the attempted extortion by corporate and political elites?
Yes 82% 11909
No 18% 2700
Total Votes: 14609

I have never seen such a disconnect with the leaders of Congress and the will of the people. It's Congress's fault in the first place for lowering the lending standards, but they will never admit to being the biggest part of this mess.

I don't see why Congress is shocked when we see Citigroup and other buying up other major banks on the cheap then having Congress expect us to foot the bill for all their crappy loans.

They must think we don't pay attention.

Yeah, things are going to be rough for awhile, we need to shake the collective cold of living on credit and start to save and spend wisely. That will come as a shock to the vast majority of Americans. We need to live within our means.

reply to post by pavil


Exactly!

Exactly!

Exactly!

I have been thinking the same all day long.

[edit on 29-9-2008 by Areal51]

reply to post by pynner



I would believe the warnings of doom from these millionaire advisors
if there were stories of ordinary people describing how this so called
"crises" were affecting them. All we see are elite economists and
financial experts yelling that the sky is falling.

I believe the National Hurricane Center when they say that a big bad one
is coming. They're looking out for our well-being and didn't create the
hurricane to begin with.

This is more-or-less the crisis creators (or their close friends) themselves
asking us to bail them out. I'd rather suffer a long personal financial
drought than to sacrifice on behalf of greedy business leaders and
government officials.

Originally posted by StellarX
Why on earth would the Russian government, and various other governments, need credit when they have oil revenue's to foot the bills?

ok, you didn't get it the first time. How will the oil companies function for any length of time without credit? They don't have the on hand capital to function very long, if at all. They certainly won't be able to raise enough of it fast enough.

They do not have to raise capitol constantly because they are making hundreds of millions in profit.

Yes they do, because unless they drill, convert, and sell it themselves, they will depend on another company to also be able to have the capital on hand to purchase that oil. Even if they do the entire process by themselves, they still have to fund all that.

Credit will ALWAYS exists as long as we employ currencies of any variety and all regulators and others have to decide is how much you can provide in credit for each dollar you have. The problem with the current system isn't that credit is bad but that the financial system has provides thirty dollars in credit for each dollar in assets. Clearly this has to stop and clearly this can be stopped if profits are not required to keep climbing year on year to satisfy the illusion of miraculous growth.

You aren't understanding how credit will freeze.
Credit being frozen as a result of a banking failure is the suffocation of the worlds economy. Credit is the oxygen of the new system's market. Without it, business will die on a mass scale.