Massive financial bailout fails in the House

I'm starting to sense that this is all "B.S.", it's all baloney.

Stocks go all the way down, this is what they wanted. Now they can start buying everything at dirt cheap prices. In a couple of months with the market is 1000 or more points higher they would have all made a killing.

It's a great time for regular people (poor and middle class) to make money in the market.

Mark my words.

reply to post by Electro38


Got any tips?


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[edit on 9/29/2008 by Hal9000]

reply to post by Electro38


Thank you this is what I am trying to get at. This fallout of failed businesses in Wall street will help main street so much. Its a good thing that these markets are falling like the house of cards they are. This way we can rebuild and give every American the chance to invest in the markets and make a killing.

I said JPmorgan, but the situation is changing as we speak. With wachovia gone under, and citigroup having purchased its banking sector, the situation has changed again.

JPmorgan is a great long term investment, should the market not collapse.

reply to post by whatukno


The real reason they are panicking, in my opinion, is that the media fed us their corporate owned fear for years via their powerful outlets and used it (and continue) to scare the majority of the public into doing what their corporate masters want. And now they have seen that their fear hold isn't as tight on the American people as they thought.

I didn't see the MSM addressing the constitutional issues of the bailout proposal. The MSM was glossing over the unprecedented powers this bill would have given to the Sec. of the Treasury. Or the 250B revolving line of credit Paulson and Bernake would have had.

The MSM see this as a failure on their part, IMO, and they can't stand it.

reply to post by Lurkerzrule


Um no. People are selling because without the bailout, nobody can see how these banks are going to stay afloat with all these at risk assets. It was a huge issue before the bill ever came into existance.

I Let me cut to the chase. The biggest robbery in the history of this country is taking place as you read this. Though no guns are being used, 300 million hostages are being taken. Make no mistake about it: After stealing a half trillion dollars to line the pockets of their war-profiteering backers for the past five years, after lining the pockets of their fellow oilmen to the tune of over a hundred billion dollars in just the last two years, Bush and his cronies -- who must soon vacate the White House -- are looting the U.S. Treasury of every dollar they can grab. They are swiping as much of the silverware as they can on their way out the door.
No matter what they say, no matter how many scare words they use, they are up to their old tricks of creating fear and confusion in order to make and keep themselves and the upper one percent filthy rich. Just read the first four paragraphs of the lead story in last Monday's New York Times and you can see what the real deal is:

"Even as policy makers worked on details of a $700 billion bailout of the financial industry, Wall Street began looking for ways to profit from it.

"Financial firms were lobbying to have all manner of troubled investments covered, not just those related to mortgages.

"At the same time, investment firms were jockeying to oversee all the assets that Treasury plans to take off the books of financial institutions, a role that could earn them hundreds of millions of dollars a year in fees.

"Nobody wants to be left out of Treasury's proposal to buy up bad assets of financial institutions."


Unbelievable. Wall Street and its backers created this mess and now they are going to clean up like bandits. Even Rudy Giuliani is lobbying for his firm to be hired (and paid) to "consult" in the bailout.
The problem is, nobody truly knows what this "collapse" is all about. Even Treasury Secretary Paulson admitted he doesn't know the exact amount that is needed (he just picked the $700 billion number out of his head!). The head of the congressional budget office said he can't figure it out nor can he explain it to anyone.
And yet, they are screeching about how the end is near! Panic! Recession! The Great Depression! Y2K! Bird flu! Killer bees! We must pass the bailout bill today!! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
Falling for whom? NOTHING in this "bailout" package will lower the price of the gas you have to put in your car to get to work. NOTHING in this bill will protect you from losing your home. NOTHING in this bill will give you health insurance.
Health insurance? Mike, why are you bringing this up? What's this got to do with the Wall Street collapse?
It has everything to do with it. This so-called "collapse" was triggered by the massive defaulting and foreclosures going on with people's home mortgages. Do you know why so many Americans are losing their homes? To hear the Republicans describe it, it's because too many working class idiots were given mortgages that they really couldn't afford. Here's the truth: The number one cause of people declaring bankruptcy is because of medical bills. Let me state this simply: If we had had universal health coverage, this mortgage "crisis" may never have happened.
This bailout's mission is to protect the obscene amount of wealth that has been accumulated in the last eight years. It's to protect the top shareholders who own and control corporate America. It's to make sure their yachts and mansions and "way of life" go uninterrupted while the rest of America suffers and struggles to pay the bills. Let the rich suffer for once. Let them pay for the bailout. We are spending 400 million dollars a day on the war in Iraq. Let them end the war immediately and save us all another half-trillion dollars!
I have to stop writing this and you have to stop reading it. They are staging a financial coup this morning in our country. They are hoping Congress will act fast before they stop to think, before we have a chance to stop

Originally posted by Electro38
I'm starting to sense that this is all "B.S.", it's all baloney.

Stocks go all the way down, this is what they wanted. Now they can start buying everything at dirt cheap prices. In a couple of months with the market is 1000 or more points higher they would have all made a killing.

It's a great time for regular people (poor and middle class) to make money in the market.

Mark my words.

And you are correct. Like I pointed out earlier I bought Wachovia this morning while everyone was selling. Needless to say Ive doubled my money in just one day. Ill hold on another day or two. Now is the time to buy. This is when the experts come in to play. When the sheeple run away the big boys come to play. Cmon man.

reply to post by alphabetaone


I don't think your comment warrants any similar reply except,

My premise is correct, every year you get a mortgage statement, it is in effect a final bill, what I was trying to explain is that the ability to just furnish interest payments on your debt only will be stopped.

Obviously not everyone would/could pay in full, but they would send them final reminders to fish for as much "capital" and "cash/liquidity as possible.

Then structured repayment plans of the debt is made to the defaulters who cant make the new payments.

Do you really believe that the Mega Monster Banks and Corporations you have seen being produced over the last few weeks, the centralised system of wealth held by the government are going to go down, that AMERICA itself would go bankrupt as a country before taking out 3/4 of its population in a poverty trap.

That belief, that they would not protect the "core" or America by calling in that debt, which is within the UK anyhow, the regulated way banks describe their operational procedures under such circumstances, and the providence or actions taken, to bring money back tot the source or bank to protect itself.

The banks will collect this debt, for the same reason as the US government would let it happen, to protect themselves.

Any other belief IMHO is "Laughable"

Kind Regards,

Elf.

I have always admired your contributions, and do take on board what you are saying, but I was only explaining the procedure the banks will go through ,don't shoot the messenger? Truly we should think on this my friend, how long till Jet's are not flying because the credit of $hundreds of thousands a day per airport per carrier is not available?

That is why the Bill of some sort has to pass.
I don't like it.
I don't support it.
Just telling it like it is.


[edit on 29-9-2008 by MischeviousElf]

reply to post by ducatillon


That's right, this is all the plan boiled down to a last futile attempt by this administration to power grab and rob the American people for all they could before they left office.

As they cannibalize our economy and show us exactly what kind of criminals they really are, we have to remember to keep pressure on our congressmen to not let our congress give these greedy bastards one red cent.

Sept. 29 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve will pump an additional $630 billion into the global financial system, flooding banks with cash to alleviate the worst banking crisis since the Great Depression.

The Fed increased its existing currency swaps with foreign central banks by $330 billion to $620 billion to make more dollars available worldwide. The Term Auction Facility, the Fed's emergency loan program, will expand by $300 billion to $450 billion. The European Central Bank, the Bank of England and the Bank of Japan are among the participating authorities.

www.bloomberg.com...

So they just make more money when they could have done that the whole time. This is such a scam. They are intentionally keeping the value of the dollar lower with this crap. Why do they need our 700 billion when they just gave away 620 billion when they are the scumbags who caused this whole mess to begin with?

On a funny note. Congress is being flooded with e-mails because you can not even get in lol.

Donald Trump was questioned on Fox today and his response:

It is a good thing that it didn't pass as this could be a good thing regarding oil. He said that just as our bodies have blood flowing to keep us alive that is what oil does for this country.

Further saying: the price of oil will plummet and it will go back to costing us little for gas, and there is nothing that OPEC can do about it. They will lose tremendous sums of money along with those who have invested in oil stock.

He feels that it is not such a bad thing for the country, in the long run.

reply to post by nfotech
Im not sure I understand all you say but it makes more sence then anything I have read so far.

I hate to make this political but I can not ignor the obvious.It would do my herat good to belive that the people contacting there reps is what really happened,I hope that was the case.

In all the photo ops I have seen it has been purtty much Palosi,Frank and Reed.no Republicans to speek of.Palosi made very clear that the Dems were going to save the world with this bailout,that being said its obvious what would have happened with the election.The Republicans have said all along that they had a better idea(ya right).Anyway now all will get back together and (behind closed doors) hash it out and Polosi will come out with a Republican this time and it will all be a bipartisian effort that will most likely get the same bailout (only worded differently) passed .Hope I am wrong but I really think this is about the election(why the Republicans voted agenst it)If they do it this way they get there bailout and put the playing field back to level and they get to make a fool of Palosi,Frank and Reed.Sad truly sad to make the American people go though this,I hope I am wrong,we will never know.

To assume that a large portion of us are going to die because of a 'collapse' is really selling short ones opinion of his fellow citizen. And I can understand that, we've been fostered into such a society of fear and isolationism. Most wouldn't know what to do if they couldn't sit and watch tv and eat their microwave dinners...but if the grinding wheel stops, they may actually go outside and see that a world of caring and loving neighbors really does exists!

Aside from the bad things that happened on and after 9/11, what else happened? The people of the US came together..we united. We (and much of the world) offered our shoulder of support to complete strangers. Unfortunately the bad from 9/11 has stayed with us (the patriot act, ect..) but the good has slipped away.

To say that the world economy is going to grind to a complete halt, is like saying that I'm not going to go to work on the ambulance as a medic and keep taking care of people, because regardless of the state of the economy, or weather or not I even get a paycheck..I'm still going to go to work! And for no other reason then to keep our way of life, other people will keep going to work as well.

People are going to do what they need to do to stay alive, and yes I believe in my heart that the majority of people are going to do it in a civil way.

The other thing I take issue with is this 'credit' that companies need to make payroll or for day to day operations..I call hogwash!! Most small companies or family owned business operate on sound financial principles! Sure there are a lot of larger companies that will be hurt, but the losses will be picked up and maintained by operations that are not. I was once assistant director for a private ambulance company that had over 100 employees and operations in 3 cities..no ONCE did we ever need credit to make payroll or pay taxes or any other operating expenses, or even to acquire new capital.

But the central banks have lost this round in their grab for power! And make no mistake, that's what this was. Another attempt to erode the constitution that much more. And they will fight back! They control the media and we already see the increase in fear mongering, just days after most of the MSM seemed to be coming around to the fact that they're wasn't any impending doom!

So keep a weary eye, help your friends and neighbors, plan for a rough future, but as someone here already stated.."this to shall pass" and we will, at least for a short while, be the better for it.

reply to post by MischeviousElf


Elf,

I AGREE with your premise, what im saying is that it's just so wrong it almost hurts me that, to believe that they can hold the markets hostage by doing such a thing. Im sure you're RIGHT, that they WOULD try to do that given the right circumstances. However, if they DID, what then? Doesn't that just substantiate that they really shouldn't have been there in the first place with so much power?

We are going to feel pain no matter what, and look at the numbers... 250 billion, 700 billion... ya know what, in essence, there is no real difference.

Why do I say this? Because a market riddled with over 600 TRILLION in Collaterized debt and derivatives, neither one of those numbers are a life saver. Nor will they correct the credit freeze because (as good business would imply) the bandits will take the money and HORDE, putting it up against safety in treasuries and never let the markets who WILL suffer the most (the consumer) see it or the light of day.

You should clearly understand though that, I was not pointing out YOU (underscored) as being wrong, but that what you were presenting as opinion just HAS to be if we are to have faith in anyone what so ever in the financial industry.


AB1

Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
reply to post by marg6043

 

I'm not so much sure it is them having america at heart as it is risking political suicide and an uprising of proportions that even their draconian police state measures might have to contend with...This isn't over yet, but the sleepwalking populace is now awakening on a large scale to this endless pickpocketing, and is having no choice but to get pissed about it to a point that these smug elitists can no longer plug their ears and yell "la-la-la" to make it go away.

I agree 100%. This is not about them caring and/or doing the right thing. This is about them being scared. That's right.... scared. The American public is overwhelmingly against this Bailout for corrupt and greedy financial institutions. The American public has been slapped around enough and they're starting to realize what's going on. And only good can come from this. Buckle up your seat belts folks..... it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

Originally posted by Battleline
Hope I am wrong but I really think this is about the election(why the Republicans voted agenst it)If they do it this way they get there bailout and put the playing field back to level and they get to make a fool of Palosi,Frank and Reed.Sad truly sad to make the American people go though this,I hope I am wrong,we will never know.

Except for the fact that McCain was posturing like he was going to swoop down on the Hill and make it happen, cap'n. I don't think it was a political ploy so much as the Rep's being afraid to go home and face their constituency if they voted yea.

Like I said, I think Wall Street should bleed.

The FED has been squeezing blood from this particular turnip for quite long enough, thank you very much. I didn't fall off my truck yesterday... don't tell me that bailing out Wall Street fat cats while I struggle to feed my kids is somehow going to help me/us.



Put the bastard CEO's and the Central Banking Scheme who have manipulated the markets to the point of collapse on trial and string 'em up.

It's the system that's flawed. You can't throw fiat currency into the system and expect to help anything. It's fiat currency that's the problem.

Besides the fact that once the government has ownership stakes in corporations we have some kind of neo-fascism on our hands. I can not and will not tolerate that. The private banks (Federal Reserve) are already in control of entirely too much.

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

--Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)

And if that means that Europe and Asia and the whole rest of the world has to have that rude awakening regarding the fiat currency system, then so be it.

We can't pay criminals for their crimes. We must hold those responsible to account.

Bring on the pain, then -- I'm poor already, I'm used to it.

reply to post by Ocelot

This is about them being scared. That's right.... scared. The American public is overwhelmingly against this Bailout for corrupt and greedy financial institutions. The American public has been slapped around enough and they're starting to realize what's going on. And only good can come from this. Buckle up your seat belts folks..... it's gonna be a bumpy ride.

Totally agree!! But it is a ride that may be an enjoyable one in part.

I think that there are a lot of surprises coming up within the next 2 weeks. If we can keep an open mind... the ride might hold many surprises and many awareness's!

Its Sad when the majority leadership in congress presents their own bill and cannot even pass it, it shows what a joke congress has become. I am not a republican but I have never seen a Republican lead congress act so shameless and out of control as this Congress has.