Is Religion Simply A Security Blanket? INTELLIGENT Discussion With NO FLAMING

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
I certainly wouldn't want to live in a world devoid of religion, because if "what you see is what you get" and death is unquestionably the end, why not simply indulge your most twisted desires? Sure, the chances are high that you would be struck down, but could not a truly vile person say they enjoyed it while it lasted?

?..i hope your not saying you would rape children if you didnt believe in god?

im an atheist and i dont rape children or kill people...because its wrong..ive no desire to...and i dont want to cause suffering.

nothing to do with god..but again....if the only reason you dont kill is your fear of a god then you are still a very evil person...belief in a god doesnt change that...

ironic dont you think..a good atheist is simply good..a good decent person.....a christian who is only good because of fear of their god in a bad person......

seems if heaven exists it will be full of atheists...

Or perhaps there's lots of rape and murder in heaven because they're already in the clear?
= D

Hi Dave,
Thanks for a great thread and thanks to all who posted here,some good stories,

Allow me if you will to relay my own.
I grew up in an occult surrounding and saw many things of the other world,Some may say that it is not true and that is fine,i have no judgment on
others and what they believe.

For myself since becoming a Christian i have found that yes,there is a security blanket,God himself provides me with it,
It is one of peace,peace when there is war about me,knowing that he takes care of me and will keep me safe while he wants me here and will take me when he wants me home
Love,love that is unbounded by performance He still loves me even when i get it wrong,Loves me enough to pick me up,dust me off and set me on my feet again
Trust,trust that he has my life and my best interest in heart and at hand
and that he knows what is best for me even when i can't see it

These things are the most wonderful security anyone can have and i am grateful for them

In saying this tho,there has been a price and that price has been great in some things,what he has asked in return is that i obey him,that in life that i approach the matters of life with his perspective,he commands that i not lie,to others,to him and to myself,and that may seem easy but there are many times that we do in light of his precepts,that i must love,and love those that are hard to love and show me hate and thats a hard thing to do sometimes,sometimes i fail and react instead of respond and i fall short of his mark,but you know what,he doesn't love me any less,and also he doesn't remove the consequences of my actions but makes me confront them and do what is right,to say sorry when i am wrong,to fix what i have broken,to heal where i have wounded,its Grace and it is character building and it is wonderful,Yes i love him and him me,there are times when i struggle to do what he asks because i think that i know better but i know when i follow him that the joy in my heart from knowing that i am pleasing to my Father is unsurpassed and i wouldn't swap it for anything.

This is the relationship that i have with God,not one that says that God will love me if i go to church and put money on the plate(yes,I like church and i feel blessed to give but it is not the foundation of my Faith nor is it done through fear,its a blessing,and for what it is worth and i say it with all humility because it breaks my heart greatly,to those that have ever been hurt or wounded by something done in the name of God that does not reflect his lovingkindness

I am Sorry

BV.

Originally posted by BlackViolet
Hi Dave,
Thanks for a great thread and thanks to all who posted here,some good stories,

Allow me if you will to relay my own.
I grew up in an occult surrounding and saw many things of the other world,Some may say that it is not true and that is fine,i have no judgment on
others and what they believe.

For myself since becoming a Christian i have found that yes,there is a security blanket,God himself provides me with it,
It is one of peace,peace when there is war about me,knowing that he takes care of me and will keep me safe while he wants me here and will take me when he wants me home
Love,love that is unbounded by performance He still loves me even when i get it wrong,Loves me enough to pick me up,dust me off and set me on my feet again
Trust,trust that he has my life and my best interest in heart and at hand
and that he knows what is best for me even when i can't see it

These things are the most wonderful security anyone can have and i am grateful for them

In saying this tho,there has been a price and that price has been great in some things,what he has asked in return is that i obey him,that in life that i approach the matters of life with his perspective,he commands that i not lie,to others,to him and to myself,and that may seem easy but there are many times that we do in light of his precepts,that i must love,and love those that are hard to love and show me hate and thats a hard thing to do sometimes,sometimes i fail and react instead of respond and i fall short of his mark,but you know what,he doesn't love me any less,and also he doesn't remove the consequences of my actions but makes me confront them and do what is right,to say sorry when i am wrong,to fix what i have broken,to heal where i have wounded,its Grace and it is character building and it is wonderful,Yes i love him and him me,there are times when i struggle to do what he asks because i think that i know better but i know when i follow him that the joy in my heart from knowing that i am pleasing to my Father is unsurpassed and i wouldn't swap it for anything.

This is the relationship that i have with God,not one that says that God will love me if i go to church and put money on the plate(yes,I like church and i feel blessed to give but it is not the foundation of my Faith nor is it done through fear,its a blessing,and for what it is worth and i say it with all humility because it breaks my heart greatly,to those that have ever been hurt or wounded by something done in the name of God that does not reflect his lovingkindness

I am Sorry

BV.

hello....why do you worship a god who causes so much suffering?

may i ask....many people claim satan is evil..but lets see...

god created the world and everything on it...storms...earthquakes..floods...hunger..war...drought etc..in doing so he has caused million and milions..billions to die and suffer in very horrible ways...

whats satan ever done thats so bad compared to all that?

reply to post by alienesque


Hello Alienesque,

Hope you are well,
I will try answer your question as best as i can,
Well, according to the Bible which i believe God made every thing good in the beginning,there was no sickness,disease or death,God provided all the nessicary things for Adam and Eve and they were eternal,when the two of them decided to disobey God then all hell broke loose to use a metaphorical term,the things that they experienced were manifold,because they had removed them self from Gods blessing and protection they were subject to death and not only that everyone born after that has been subject to the same state of heart,God has provided a way home in the form of his Sons sacrifice,take that as you will,he loves you very much.

Alienesque,I know where you are coming from when you ask these questions,truely i do,i asked the same thing once and i know that they demand to be answered,and they will,i can't tell you what to think and feel and i wont,but if you really,and i mean really want to know if God is real,and not to prove a point,or to say"Ha",i knew it,but because you want to know the truth,then ask him,no need to do some religious thing or such but speak to him as you would a friend,as normal and ask him to show himself to you,
You may be surprised.

Thanks dude

BV.

I think that many people that are anti-religion are simply conforming to the politically correctness of the day, or acting out of frustration due to events in their lives or family problems. Just my opinion of coursereply to post by semperfortis


I believe your barking up the wrong tree here dude, the majority of antireligion people are pretty much level headed reasoning types.

I for one am anti religion in that, I respect anothers' right to believe what they wish as long as they dont try to force their belief upon others.

On the whole religion has gone out of it's way to impose itself upon the lives of others for centuries by any means possible.

It is the secular world (ie the anti religious) that is creating political correctness, the world of reason in which tolerence plays a pivotal role.

Unfortunately tolerance and religion are not synonymous, we only have to look at the plight of the homosexual to establish this.

It would appear that when people fail to find answers to their troubles inside themselves, they go outside for resolution.Some turn to drugs, alchol etc and others fall in with some religious types that have caught them at a time of vulnrability.

And it is the issue of taking advantage of the vulnrable that I have a problem with, It would appear that religion is less likely to look so appealing to the persons of reason with few issues in their lives as they dont need the "security blanket".


Many children have their favourite blankets and such, my children had theirs.This physical tangable item offered them security but primarily comfort.
As the child grows older and gains in understanding and reason, it slowly drops the blanket or toy that gave it comfort and becomes more reliant upon itself and its ability to address issues that maybe fearful.


It would seem to me, that religion is a security blanket for a very immature species, one that does not allow itself to grow up, one that needs a parent to make the hard decisons for it, and fears taking responsibility for its own actions and mindset.

At the same time, those who follow religion seem to be terrifed of being wrong about their beliefs, so not only cling to their security blanket but isnsit that anyone who doesn't need one shares theirs and their delusion.

If the religious were so confident in their faith, why oh why do they feel it necassary to enter into debate or try to get non believers to join them?

Fear of death . Thats a big one for most religious people ,especially when they have a guilty conscience . Silly irrational fear of being punished by the devil for not using a condom or worse, masturbating !

How ridiculous can you get , yet many religious people really buy in to this silly nonsense .

but its funny how the catholic church seems to think it will NOT be called to account for the inquistion , genocide , and any number of nameless horrors it has commited as the 'one true church ' ..

A very dear christian friend of mine once told me I would burn in hell because I refused to go to church every sunday ! . I just looked at him and laughed so hard I was clutching my stomach . Well he had to laugh too. I dont think god ,if he does exist is that insecure .

And all this nonsense about entering the house of god when you go to church . If god is so all powerfull why cant he get off his ass and build his own blasted church for once ?

No , god is just another business opportunity for cynical ego driven neurotics often with a penchant for sex with children .

Jesus was right ,cut their heads off and throw them in the sea .

Not saying I believe he was the son of god or any of that nonsense .he was just a bloke who stood up and said 'this is BS'. He attacked the church ,he attacked the god of the jews as a murdering liar ! (thats ballsy ) ,he attacked the banks and he showed up all those misoginists who treated women like slaves .

Id stand him a drink if I ever bumped in to him but worship him ? No way .

No ,this jesus, if he ever existed, was just a man with a conscience who stood up and lived by his own code of conduct . There are plenty of people that do that .








[edit on 22-9-2008 by reconpilot]

very interesting topic, and also something that has been on my mind since I was young child. I am currently nineteen but my entire life i have always had some kind of deep connection with my thoughts and have been able to rationalize my thoughts and connect the pieces of the puzzle to form at least educated guesses to the most often asked questions. I do believe that there most definitely is a god or at least some kind of superior life form that "created" life. I believe this simply because of one known scientific fact and that is: that life begets life. Something that is alive had to have come from another living thing correct? there is no such thing as spontaneous life that just appears out of no where. So perhaps man through all of his trial and tribulations and not knowing his origin became confused and created an idol to come as close to the idea of a "god" as possible. God to me is simply this, LIFE. Living things beget living things, so perhaps the very essence of the universe, the very fabric of being is an intelligent LIFE form that created mass and matter out of free floating chemicals and gasses such as carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen. Life is energy, and we know that energy has always existed in the universe long before anything, so could energy and life itself really be god? But of course the question will always be that if life begets life then where does god come from? Did he create himself or was he or it some end result of a cataclysm or tragedy that divided light between darkness? Some questions we cannot answer as mere men. Our mediocrity and lack of knowledge and potential do not allow our primitive minds to understand such concepts. so unless some higher life form can provide us with the true answers to these winding questions, or if man can somehow use his full potential and unlock the door to life's greatest mystery we may never know the true answers to these questions. But perhaps it is better this way, because life wouldn't be as interesting if we had all the answers to every mystery that there is. However it would be extremely liberating to find if there truly is or is not a god figure ruling this universe. We can only wait and see what the future holds. I do know this though, it is gonna be a fun ride!

I'm newish at this point, I've replied to threads often but rarely even gotten responses to my replies, that being said, I hope that people read my replies including and especially this one since religion has always been an important topic for me. I'm going to be specific and answer the questions posed:

1.) The question of whether or not people are religious because they really believe in it is tricky. I know that 1 person is an iffy source, but do me the kindness of believing that when I say this person is the only source I need I truly mean it. Look at my past posts and I think you'll find a few replies in which Sources are something I ask for. A very close friend of mine is a truly devout Christian and this one man has brought me to believe that YES there is a God...no I don't believe his religion, but I believe that he is genuinely religious because he truly believes it is the right way. My beliefs say that there is no right religion but it only matters that you did what was true to you for the better of yourself and all that is living. He is one of the few Christians I know/have seen that are there because of the message/morals/values as opposed to the end result which brings me to Question #

2.) MANY people follow religion purely because of the end result, I've seen this who knows how many times and it truly saddens me. I don't believe this is why religion was created. I genuinely believe that it was made to help keep people "moral" to keep them true and good to one another. I'm not just speaking of Christianity, though I believe Buddhism, Hinduism, if I remember correctly Jainism, as well as a few others are Philosophies and not religions, are all made for the good of all living things. In the modern day many religions true intent, I believe, has become lost in self-fulfillement and not the betterment of all life as I believe was originally intended. Not all religious folk are involved in this belief for the end result, but many are, and that's very sad to me. The potential consequences are quite scary in the Heaven/Hell scenario...at least the Hell part. I don't blame them for that, a supposed eternity in damnation isn't exactly what i call a vacation! But I think for many, and by that I mean any of the devout, are focused on Hell instead of being concerned with making the lives of their fellow living and breathing creatures better for the time that they can help out. Many people who are devout are very afraid, not that I blame them given that whole Hell thing, but instead of focusing on what matters they use it as a Question #

3.) Security blanket, but this is often very important for many people. Many people need a source of security because frankly, life can be freakin' cruel. Some people need to believe that something better is coming at the end because this life just isn't worth it for everybody. I don't want to call it a "Religious Rainbow" even though I understand the comparison, i think the vocabulary lightens the mood a bit more than necessary. But I'm only 22, maybe I'm wrong (I had a birthday recently, woot!). This is why I am very very very pro-Church for those who want to attend. As far as Christianity goes, there is a point in the bible in which they mention that it should be a personal thing. However, many people just can't do that. They need a support group, a community, in which they can confide in. A place they can go to feel accepted and I think that's important in a world with all these people. Personally, I've always been kind of a lone wolf so it's never been my way, BUT I'm also not Christian.

I don't think religion is bad at all, I think it's been corrupted, but I think there are enough people who are truly devout for the right reasons that can keep it pure enough. A lot of people need religion just to get through the day. I think religion is a very good thing, at its purest form.

Unfortunately, what's the quote? "Absolute Power Corrupts, Absolutely."

reply to post by Dave Rabbit


Sorry Dave, but this thread is CRIMINAL. You go and post a searching topic like this when the walls of capitalism are falling all around us, the imposition of Marshall Law is a real possibility and ATS is bursting at the seams with 'It's Happening Now' threads. Only women can follow so many topics simultaneously, so I hereby accuse you of discriminatory practice.

Having said all that I'm appalled at many of your experiences. All I can say is that mankind has proved over and over again that it can take all that is good in this world and not only abuse it, but use it to abuse others. I fear it may sound trite, but I believe that serious reflection will reveal that this is true: it makes no sense to reject pure spring water because it has been offered in a dirty cup. A noble heart can persevere in it's search for truth to see beyond false imitations and even professing believers whose lives are defined by hypocracy.

As far as the Christian faith is concerned, Christ told us how to recognise the real thing: "You'll recognise them by their fruit... every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit." (Matthew 7:16&17) Televangelists begging for $$$? Sadistic nuns? Neglecting children?

(All I will add is that Christ can even transform hypocrites and those caught up in man-made religion, so no-one is written off.)


1. Are people religious because they really believe?

It varies. Yet Christ himself warned that many would fool themselves: "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord!' will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in Heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, and do many miracles in your name?' Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from me, you lawbreakers!' (Matthew 7:21-23)


2. Do they simply go through the motions because they are too afraid of the consequences .... just in case there is a Heaven or Hell?

Insurance Policy Christianity I call it. Going to church and even becoming actively involved, just in case. That is not being a disciple of Christ, and it is not faith in Him. "If anyone wants to come with me, he must deny himself, take up his cross and follow me" (Matthew 17:24) Many ignore this, in fact many "churches" preach the opposite: 'join us and God will proper you physically and materially - just make sure you put your tithe in the box...'

The error is simple: Our Maker is looking for the love of our heart, not the money in our account.


3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?

I believe this is true of many 'religious' people, although there are surely many genuine seekers among them as well. By religious I mean those who follow religious rules, obligations and ceremonies, etc., in order to attain favour with God, in the hope He'll accept them beyond the grave.

Personally I find 'religion' very off-putting.

Nevertheless I am a believer in Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and I seek to base my life on his teaching. The reason is: I studied the Bible at great length, and became convinced. I am persuaded that he was/is who he said he was, as are countless millions today, and billions throughout history. I briefly laid out my reasons for believing here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Is it a security blanket? I was astonished at what I read in the Bible. No exaggeration. I was not brought up with Bible knowledge, and was effectively agnostic. I actually resisted to the extent that the thought of following Christ didn't fit with me as a person: violent and foul-mouthed. The more I read, the more convinced I became, and effectively ended up with no choice.

I now believe career-building, property investments, savings and pensions are used as 'security blankets'. 'No need to worry about what God thinks of my life - I'm secure'.

Which brings us back to where we started...

Originally posted by Dave Rabbit

1. Are people religious because they really believe?

2. Do they simply go through the motions because they are too afraid of the consequences .... just in case there is a Heaven or Hell?

3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?

[edit on 9/21/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

thanks heaps for trusting us with your stories dave

1. in my case i'm not religious though i beleive. humans have polverised religions and made them look out of touch and well, weired. we have used them as a divide and this is downright shamful. people are religious because they beleive that their religion alone will make them a better person and save them. right.

2. yep. i can only speak for roman catholics and the ones i know....people are sooooo hypocrytical. they go to church ever sunday and say their hail mary's though once the doors of gods house are open, their not always being as compassionate & loving as the priest has asked of them only hours before.

3. not so much security blanket than the fear of dying. they want to beleive that the golden gates will open and their beloveds are waiting for them open armed and they live happily ever after. it makes their lives easier to live....sadly.



[edit on 053030p://1844 by enlighten2012]

Originally posted by stonespiral
Unfortunately, what's the quote? "Absolute Power Corrupts, Absolutely."

Religion, much like monetary systems and politics, have been hijacked and corrupted by those at the top. That's my opinion anyway.

I am a very religious person, or maybe the word "spiritual" would fit even better. At the end of this very summer I had my first "real" spiritual awakening. I got proof that I was on the correct path from the beginning. Before it was only a religious search, now it is so much more obvious to me. I can now lay my doubts and questionings to rest and start uncovering what is within me and within the world around me.
My path is the older scandinavian custom, or "paganism" as others would like to call it. Some call it Asatrú, but that is just a part of it (this religion has been altered and popularized thorughout the last hundered years so that not many people know its core, but I dare to say that I do).

But resting above this faith, like a framework, I have within me something beautiful called "UNIVERSIALISM". Check this out if you are not familiar with it.
The basis of universialism is that there is one eternal force, or God if you want, above all the ones tied to life on earth (a pretty small place in the infinity of the universe). This God is beyond life and death, this God is the one force that ties everything together, the superior mother of all. This might be the one God that the "world religions" think they are obeying but I beg to differ. I'll come back to that later...

If I am not mistaken, it is in the Hindu faith that there is a beautiful description of why the major religions pray to one God that they hold as the highest one but still differ in tradition and tend to attack the other religions with accusations of desecration and such; They are all observing one enormous, mysterious animal (which would represent God) but they fail to see the entire being, they only see a small section of the whole, thinking it is all there is to it and that they are observing everything correctly, missing that they are all studying the one and the same animal, the one and the same God. Get it?
I do understand that there is one major God above, below, within and beyond everything but this God can not be understood until we meet up with it after this mortal life. This God is more vast and unintelligible that the universe itself. It is just too much for the simple mind of man to behold. If we would one day be able to understand the entire universe, we would then, maybe, have a good shot at understanding the beginning of this force.
And now I need to get personal because the way that the major religions like to depict this God is a direct insult to it. This force sure as hell is not a person, not at all like man in apperance, has not made man into it's own reflection, it does not write books, does not tell us what to do and don't, it doesn't condemn, approve or demand and it has absolutely not a representative living in Rome. This God is so great and mysterious that it is above and beyond religion. It is simply just here, there and everywhere, greater than time, it is inter-dimensional and not in the need of any worshippers, prophets, books or temples or man at all. Man in its mortal existance can not comprehend or know this God only know of it. It is beyond emotions and thought, beyond words and actions. This is God to me.

Christianity, Judaism and Islam (the three major religions having but one (1) God) are all modern mixed versions of countless religions prior to themselves. The "god" of the organized world religions can be seen in ancient religions from earlier times. They are combinations of literally hundereds of gods from a wide range of "pagan" or "heathen" gods. That is also why I find it quite amusing that these religions so strongly oppose "heathendom". Is it because they want to erase all traces of it's own origin so that we would not realize the scam: that they are not about religion, it is about politics. Power over peoples lives, trade, economy, warfare... That is why I stay the hell away from them because it is not talking about the Universial God they claim they do, no one can do that except the inner voice of your soul (which is a small fraction, a spark of this immortal universial force) but that tongue can not be converted to words in any language. The organized world religions are talking about something else, and this talk I can not relate to. It sounds too much to me like politics and propaganda. Until they confess that their god is not the superior, universial one I remain sceptical towards them. I just find the abuse of this true God to be disrespectful and wrong. Yeah, you heard me, wrong. Religion and politics don't mix.

That is why I like to settle with my earthly Gods, the traditional scandinavian spirits. They are manifestations of the things around us, nature and it's mysteries. They are directly related to life here on earth and they deal with things we understand and they do communicate with us. They are forces of magic and earthly wisdom that we can take part of. The universial God is their God. This God is the force that gives them life and death. And this God is sure as hell not a christian, jew or moslem.

So to wrap this up; I totally agree with earlier statements about the only true way to find your inner spiritual path is to search deep within yourself. Nobody, and I mean no one can tell you what path to chose. You can't make anyone believe, but you sure can brainwash people into believing that they believe. That is sad. And it is wrong and evil. We all have our individual path but they all lead up to the same force, the same God, the same origin of everything that is.

If it is a comforting blanket; yeah maybe sometimes. It is good to put things in perspective and to know that at least one thing in the universe is eternal forever and that ahead lays the great truth that will reveal itself when we depart from this mortal world.

To discuss this topic with atheists is a waste of time. They tend to confuse religion with logic and science and that does not work. They are looking in the wrong place. Until they open their inner eye, they will not comprehend. For the atheist's sake I can only say that it is their loss. Life without religion is pretty bleak. Those who deny faith does not lack it, they just haven't understood it yet. But they will in the afterlife. Religion is not mandatory, but it is good for you, makes you think that maybe man and his ways are not eternal, but something else is... Death is not the end. Far from it.

Does anyone get this?

Dave, excellent thread, and very thought-provoking responses.... I"ve been waiting for a time when I could sit down and read it all, and it kept GROWING so this morning is the time.

To your original question, I don't think religion is JUST a security blanket. I think it's also a control mechanism, steered by conventions of each religion, with at least a partial goal of influencing politics and making money, as well as providing comfort for the masses. Great horrors have been perpetrated historically in the name of religion, but IMO always in reality at the twisted ideas of humanity.

As others have said -- and I agree -- I think there is a vast difference between religion and spirituality. Religion seems to me to be an effort to interpret the mechanizations and phenomena of the universe for you, while spirituality is, at least for me, something personal, something felt, and a communion of sorts. Communion with what?? I think we all make up a thread of the fabric of the All-that-is, and that collective energy to me is what is called God. Can we pray to a collective energy? I do. I believe it helps; I believe especially that good thoughts and compassionate ideals towards others has the most strength or effectiveness, but I don't believe that we all "make" things happen..... more a dance, a request.

I've never felt a conflict between science and religion.... both dissimilar languages to describe similar phenomenon. I believe there are vastly more advanced creatures in the universe than humanity, and I can't blame them much for keeping a distance from us -- I've never had the desire to communicate with ants, much as I admire their organization and economy.

I was accused by a friend of mine as being a "universalist"..... in her mind, that was a weak and contemptable person who didn't have the sand to take a stand on their beliefs. I didn't think universalist sounded half bad myself -- much better than, say, a galactist or solarist Dimensionalist? NEVERmind. It was her view that the various religions were set in place by God to test us, for us to find the "right" way and to be able to weed out the rest. Myself, I could not be accepting of a Godhead that created children and then threw them away, soulless and damned, simply because they weren't exposed to His word, or died before being old enough to understand.

I believe in a soul/spirit and I think all living things have some of it-whatever-it-is. I think there's something apart from the mere lifeforce, and I believe it is recycled to some degree.

I think humans evolved the capacity to create and appreciate humor for a reason; I think it heals. Here, have a smiley, doesn't that feel better?

Cheers

Originally posted by BlackViolet
reply to post by alienesque

 

Hello Alienesque,

Hope you are well,
I will try answer your question as best as i can,
Well, according to the Bible which i believe God made every thing good in the beginning,there was no sickness,disease or death,God provided all the nessicary things for Adam and Eve and they were eternal,when the two of them decided to disobey God then all hell broke loose to use a metaphorical term,the things that they experienced were manifold,because they had removed them self from Gods blessing and protection they were subject to death and not only that everyone born after that has been subject to the same state of heart,God has provided a way home in the form of his Sons sacrifice,take that as you will,he loves you very much.

Alienesque,I know where you are coming from when you ask these questions,truely i do,i asked the same thing once and i know that they demand to be answered,and they will,i can't tell you what to think and feel and i wont,but if you really,and i mean really want to know if God is real,and not to prove a point,or to say"Ha",i knew it,but because you want to know the truth,then ask him,no need to do some religious thing or such but speak to him as you would a friend,as normal and ask him to show himself to you,
You may be surprised.

Thanks dude

BV.

hello..thanks for your kind response...but it throws up more questions than answers..

god made everything...that includes the possibility to do evil...
jesus (or is it god..are jesus and god one and the same thing?..if yes does that mean god commited suicide..or rather..pretended too?) wasnt sacrificed...a god who cannot die cannot be sacrificed..its therefore a bit lame to pretend to die to get people on your side....

if god pretended to kill himself isnt that deceitful..a lie?

[edit on 22-9-2008 by alienesque]

reply to post by Raud


small world, huh? You were typing about "Universalism" as I was lamenting being accused of being one Still feels fine to me. I don't mind the labels if used as you did to describe...... when used as a weapon or divisor, that seems ............ so human.

I dont believe in any particular god(s) or faith.
But then again, i can't see how the feeling of seeing a rainbow, hearing music, or the warm sun on your face could just come about at random.
If anyone has a darwinian answer for this, i'm all ears

I think this makes me an agnostic?

reply to post by argentus


Heh, yeah, that was pretty cool.

Of course you can pray to that Universal God, go ahead it is a free world, but I think only knowing of its existance is worship enough.
In my observation of the spiritual plains I see that below this eternal light which is that God, there are several other divine forces that are much easier to communicate with and that are in a much closer existance to man and nature.

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by Dave Rabbit

 

I now believe career-building, property investments, savings and pensions are used as 'security blankets'. 'No need to worry about what God thinks of my life - I'm secure'.

Which brings us back to where we started...

I see those as working, living and thinking of your family and future. errr....
If they become an obsession, and based in greed then yes I get your point. But it's a stretch to cover everyone in that blanket ( ha ha )

You'll get people using both religion and the above mentioned things for security blankets, whilst some don't. You can't group people that easily on these topics, you can't ask 'why are some people naturally happier or angrier than others'

That's why these religious debates go on for so long. Theres no real answer to ANY religious question. Only opinions.


BTW why do I keep getting applauded +500 points for my posts in this thread, I'm hardly contributing anything worthwhile lol.

You Are Participating In The Process Intelligently

[edit on 9/22/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

1. Mostly but driven by 2.
2. Most definitely.
3. Yes

As for religion being a "club" (for the want of a better word) where the core beliefs are God but the "club" differs in it's constitution. Then I for one don't even believe in the God bit. For one very very simple reason : where did God come from? If you can accept God was not created but simple "is" then you can do the same for the universe. The only thing that stops you is fear, imagined fear of the consequences of God being angry.....That's as bad as the boogie man under the bed! So even the belief in God is a security blanket.

I did read in one reply that folks like me are "Basically they are committed to not believe". Huge massive assumption there that there is anything to believe in in the first place. No evidence for the existance of God outside or not sourced from the mind of man has been produced. Thus God is simply a belief system of the mind, nothing more. If folks get comfort from that then fine, go ahead. If they wish to club together and form a relgion for group God belief and community support then again fine go ahead. But when that faith becomes "my way or no way and all none believers are unworthy of life" whoa that's where religion becomes exceedingly dangerous. Unfortunately that's the nature of "clubs" with followers and not just religious, just look at football (soccer)!