Is Religion Simply A Security Blanket? INTELLIGENT Discussion With NO FLAMING

1. Are people religious because they really believe?

They grow up with parents whom teach religion as though its a critical part of life and ultimately a necessity.
The important thing to realize here is.. How much belief stems from the parents influence at a younger age?
- If done in a very positive light and show the benefits of belief - 100%
- If done by a parent whom has no faith, but wants the kid to be 'good' - 10%

I can personally account for these statistics through my earlier life going to a Catholic school... Surprisingly i hung out with the 10% influence group.. My old man said once and i have quoted him many times to the 10% group - he was our wise man:
"Pay attention, its boring but you'll pick up the important things like being polite, how to treat ladies, how to dress smart and later on you'll figure out you work till you die.. So get the basics and enjoy all the Sunday mornings sleeping in"

Its funny how the 100% were so clean cut and devout whilst we were kids.. Often questioning my sanity for asking "Say i throw a brick into traffic and watch a car crash and burn, killing the person inside - i don't get caught - but i later regret doing and this would be forgiven by the Lord.. As added insurance, on my death bed i may not remember it, but having lived such a great life, raised kids and been a wonderful person - would i still be punished?"
They always said something like "You shouldn't ask those questions as God doesn't have a specific formula for every point in life"

A better response would have been.. "Any a-hole who does that is digging his own grave and will be in hell (prison) as soon as the cops catch up with him.. God doesn't need to do anything"


2. Do they simply go through the motions because they are too afraid of the consequences .... just in case there is a Heaven or Hell?

Uh yes pretty much. The bible is just sugarcoated *cough* tainted *cough* with scare tactics.. God doesn't have a definable personality that we can judge.. He is not human, nor does he exercise rule of law in a way which man kind would..
"Do exactly what i say or burn for ever?"

The idea of God exercising his authority off some high horse like this is a bloody insult.. The idea of hell/burning is clearly present in every day life... You are presented with the bible which teaches you how to live a good life.. When you deviate, you often end in a spiral of unhappiness, regret, what ever.. To the extreme, some people end up in jail, in fights, being shamed by their entire town and family for what ever wrong they have done.. The idea of shame, unhappiness, sickness, loneliness, no family/friends etc. This is hell on earth.

The references to pain, suffering, diseases, burning etc. All come from real world consequences as a result of living a bad life - only in your body can you feel pain, feel sadness and so on.. The suffering occurs right here and right now if you aren't careful with your choices.

Frankly anyone who falls for the hell idea being a location for suffering cause you stuffed up a life time.. Their not very bright.. Even with my belief in God i see this clear as day..

Makes me think some dropkick re-worded the bible back in the earliest days to give it more of an 'impact' or something.. What ever the case be, in the modern age it was a royal f**k up.


3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?

People are scared of death, because they have not found themselves and do not have 100% faith in their own ability to control their world, their future and the age they die.

Death is just like thinking back before you were born.. I wasn't scared then, so why would i be scared when i get to the end of the ride as well?

Some people are just weak in this regard and are too sheltered and soft from the church.. Thats my opinion.

[edit on 22-9-2008 by sharpmind77]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
As far as hell goes ...at first I considered hell and yes I was a bit scared ..but then it never crossed my mind again once I got to know the Lord more and how much he truly LOVES US ALL
CUT...
I am a believer because of HIS LOVE not because I may face hell if I dont believe .

Since you mentioned the "H" word might I take this opportunity to quell the groans and moans of all those who are amused or angered at the thought of an omniscient God making beings that God had to know beforehand would spend "ETERNITY IN HELL"!
WOW... that was creepy.
Hell is just a "perfect playing field" for those who live by a different set of rules/laws than do those who live by the law of love/forgiveness. The "burning" part is a reference to the "furnace of affliction" that all of us currently endure. In Hell there will be no "light of God". I never thought of it as being bump-your-head-in-the-dark pitch black. So... if you think this experience is tough... try it with no restraints from God. Truly a "place of outer darkness" perfectly designed by God for all who choose another "Way".
BTW... Simplynoone. The "furnace" has done well by you. Nice thoughts!

Originally posted by Simplynoone
As far as hell goes ...at first I considered hell and yes I was a bit scared ..but then it never crossed my mind again once I got to know the Lord more and how much he truly LOVES US ALL
CUT...
I am a believer because of HIS LOVE not because I may face hell if I dont believe .

Just on this one.. Yeh thats sort of the problem i had.. Hell was there being scary etc., but everyone else was getting high off knowing God and God's love.. I tried praying when i had issues and tried to understand where God's love was..

Apparently God's love was in me at birth.. You see, each person is born with the gift and that gift is being able to understand love, compassion and humility.

The conclusion i came to was God DOES NOT influence people from birth to death, God influences you at birth.

When each person realizes this form of self empowerment and duty unto ones self to provide a happy, clean and loving environment in their life.. They essentially reward them selves with God's love that was there all along..

The thing that should motivate you in life is the knowledge that God gave you a special gift and you have inside you what is required to exceed expectations, be kind every moment of the day, help others, raise a happy healthy family and live life like its heaven.

The idea that God is micro-managing every human on earth is primitive.. That is why i denounced all religion during grade 7, i was smarter than this and the illusion of guardian angels, God's real-time love and prayers being answered really needs to be looked at with a logical eye, as well as the deeper human instinct that God has given each of his creations - the ability to accept this more logical answer over a fanciful one that only worked on our species 2000 years ago.


Whilst i got you all, check out my Work In Progress thread which is going to be a fairly in depth piece... I plan to cover the many issues with religion and for the first time explain my deep rooted understanding of God. I hope some people will read it and maybe get something useful out of it, provided i can choose the right words.

Furthermore, my ideas strengthen and support God's existence in a way that doesn't have total reliance on the reader needing to commit a questionable blind faith to reach their God.

Sharpmind's Thread On Religion

[edit on 22-9-2008 by sharpmind77]

[edit on 22-9-2008 by sharpmind77]

Yes it is a security blanket. For the simple purpose that we all Die. Do you want to be layin in your death bed remembering all the bad you did in your life? Or remembering the good things in your life? I choose the good things. And what is most religion about? Doing good in ones life.
Another point is if the government or who ever came forward with proof that all religion was "fake" and that it was just a way to keep order amoung the masses. Then what would happen the next day? Giving that some people would still try to have faith. Most would go over the edge and start a life of hate&crime. Just because their is no "God" so their for no heaven or hell or sins to be judged on. They would use that to justify what they were doing. I know that crimes and bad things are goin on now but it would really get bad if their was no religion.
Now my stand on religion. I fell that everyone has their own right to what they believe in. Just as long as they dont shove it in my face, use it as a weapon against other religions and try to act like its in the name of god so their for they are in the right. Then Im all for it.
For the person who started this thread, its a good one and you should be commended for it from ats mods. Thanks!

[3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?]

For me it has nothing to do with death .or what lies ahead after death .
It is more about this life in the here and now .I have purpose and meaning and hope and love NOW in this life .When all the world has to offer is temporary feel good stuff that does not even make you feel as good as you think it does.And it will all pass away ......and then what will be left if all you had were those things ?
Even the love that we think we have for one another ...does not even compare to the Love that the Lord has for us .Mans love fades .....the Love of the Lord does not .Even unto the end he offers you his hand and says please please take my hand I know the way ...the way of man has led us to where we are now .Man is selfish by nature and he cares not for you ..he only cares about himself ...and that becomes clearer and clearer as we see the way that man has taken us since his beginning....
We cannot blame God for what man has done ..man took it upon himself to go his own way and God allowed him to (Because we do have free will) ..
I choose to use my free will to FOLLOW THE LORD and the way that he had in mind for us since the beginning ..as mans way has failed miserably ....

reply to post by sharpmind77


Yes every single person is born with GOD inside ..as it was his breath of life that gave us life .

And yes it is a gift ..
I wrote a poem about life being a gift ..u2me and I will share it with ya if your interested.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
[3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?]

For me it has nothing to do with death .or what lies ahead after death .
It is more about this life in the here and now .I have purpose and meaning and hope and love NOW in this life .When all the world has to offer is temporary feel good stuff that does not even make you feel as good as you think it does.And it will all pass away ......and then what will be left if all you had were those things ?
Even the love that we think we have for one another ...does not even compare to the Love that the Lord has for us .Mans love fades .....the Love of the Lord does not .Even unto the end he offers you his hand and says please please take my hand I know the way ...the way of man has led us to where we are now .Man is selfish by nature and he cares not for you ..he only cares about himself ...and that becomes clearer and clearer as we see the way that man has taken us since his beginning....
We cannot blame God for what man has done ..man took it upon himself to go his own way and God allowed him to (Because we do have free will) ..
I choose to use my free will to FOLLOW THE LORD and the way that he had in mind for us since the beginning ..as mans way has failed miserably ....

Very nicely written.. Religious supporters should seriously read this and many other posts going on here.. All i would ask is that you take away from this, a fresh view of God and new techniques for understanding our life's purpose.. Most importantly, an accurate understanding of God's presence and active function in our lives..

It is good to see that people are going at this in a constructive helpful manner. Usually when i debate this topic i get 'Zerged' by 10-15 atheists each forcing their 'science proof' ramblings into the debate.. Often stating "Evolution is proven, therefore God is not real" If i had a beer for every time I've heard that line from someone

Lets thank the US public school system for making students even more opinionated...


Also, Simplynoone.. I cant use the private message service yet because i don't have 20 posts..

[edit on 22-9-2008 by sharpmind77]

1. Are people religious because they really believe?


No, atleast not in my case. I stopped believing in God shortly after I stopped believing in Santa. I spent another 10 years of my life wanting to believe but I couldn't really do it. Eventually I decided I'm agnostic.


2. Do they simply go through the motions because they are too afraid of the consequences .... just in case there is a Heaven or Hell?


This is the very reason it took me 10 years to stop believing in god. Children are very influential. They believe what they are told by their parents. Although I didn't really believe, I kept telling myself and others that I did believe so I wouldn't risk going to hell.


3. Is it simply a security blanket because they want to believe that there is something better after they die and would be miserable if they didn’t believe there was something at the end of the religious rainbow?

The concept of an afterlife is a secuirty blanket. No one wants to die. Life, energy, conscienceness. It all seems so much better then the void. Nothingness is not appealing at all. Atleast you won't know nothingness. I think if our minds wern't festering with dualities we would be much better off, and perhaps wouldn't need a secuirty blanket.. Good, evil, you, me, life, death.


I would really like to move to an island and form a society with the intent to raise child with absolutely no religious structures. I'd really like to see how these kids grow up, function, and how they percieve life, afterlife, god.

I just wanted to add that I believe we are all born pure in heart ..(the spirit is pure) and it is the feeding of the flesh (not literal food) but fleshly desires etc (gorging ourselves with all that our flesh finds desireable) ...that corrupt the spirit (The spirit ends up fleshly too )...They war with eachother because they are opposites of eachother ....It is only with Christ in us (the indwelling of his spirit more and more everyday in us ) that is the only way we can win that war within ourselves.

Originally posted by goddogo1
Yes it is a security blanket. For the simple purpose that we all Die. Do you want to be layin in your death bed remembering all the bad you did in your life? Or remembering the good things in your life? I choose the good things. And what is most religion about? Doing good in ones life.
Another point is if the government or who ever came forward with proof that all religion was "fake" and that it was just a way to keep order amoung the masses. Then what would happen the next day? Giving that some people would still try to have faith. Most would go over the edge and start a life of hate&crime. Just because their is no "God" so their for no heaven or hell or sins to be judged on. They would use that to justify what they were doing. I know that crimes and bad things are goin on now but it would really get bad if their was no religion.
Now my stand on religion. I fell that everyone has their own right to what they believe in. Just as long as they dont shove it in my face, use it as a weapon against other religions and try to act like its in the name of god so their for they are in the right. Then Im all for it.
For the person who started this thread, its a good one and you should be commended for it from ats mods. Thanks!

Whilst Evolution is accepted, (i accept it also) - it remains a subject of science in public schools. Therefore it isn't going to generate controversy as it fits snuggly into a pre-defined category of subjects.

Now on the other hand.. God, Religion, Meaning of life.. Where does that fit into?? No where, because God as well as Universal theories & Philosophy..
Well they aren't subjects in the public school.. I would say because the public school system is failing to raise the benchmark high enough.. It then considers such topics a waste of time or something that should be left for college / university.

If i were going to teach religion or proof of God.. I would need 45 minutes and that would be the end of the class for the rest of the year.

I would explain to the kids like this:

You don't want to study religion, if it were up to me i wouldn't want you to study it in the current state.

When someone comes to teach you about God or share with you about Jesus, you immediately feel like this guy is a weirdo.. Instead of seeing his absolute happiness and thinking "oh yeh this sounds radicool, sign me up Jesus".. You see some guy who's either on medication or trying to hard to sell something..

What if i told you that God is true, but he doesn't have a name, he doesn't influence your life as it occurs, he isn't watching you and he isn't going to send you to hell if you are bad?

Oh now your interested? Oh by the way, hell is on earth, you sin here and you experience it first hand... Only those who do it never know they are in hell because they end up with brain damage.. *dun dun daaaa*

scare the kiddies at the end there.. ROFL

reply to post by prestonberryworth


Hi.

I would really like to move to an island and form a society with the intent to raise child with absolutely no religious structures. I'd really like to see how these kids grow up, function, and how they percieve life, afterlife, god.

Ever read 'Lord of the Flies'?

Ever looked into what happened in Communist Albania 'The First Self-Proclaimed Atheist Nation on Earth'?

(Clue: a society devastated by crime, alcoholism and psychotic hopelessness. Of course people have been brought up in this way in many families, and not just in Albania. No morals, no respect for God. Pimps and human traffickers often hail from such homes. Come to think of it, in Europe many of the worst are - coincidentally - Albanian.)

What you get is egotism gone mad.

Atheists we meet from day to day who are reasonable, decent-living people simply cannot escape the fact that their sense of morality and justice owes a great deal to the influence of the Judeo-Christian perspective.

No evidence for the existance of God outside or not sourced from the mind of man has been produced. Thus God is simply a belief system of the mind, nothing more. reply to post by malcr


Well there you go dude, you've gone and done it you've said those magic words "No Evidence".

Now we can expect page after page of bible thumpers posting verses or christian links and such, somehow proving there is evidence.


I get ticked off about this because they've had nearly 2000 years and still nothing new just the same old nonproof yawn.

reply to post by pause4thought


Er dude, you do realise you're more or less describing some parts of the USA there don't you?

reply to post by moocowman


I for one am not going to be baited. (Yawn.)

In my personal opinion
The only reason why Christianity per say has failed in our world is because most of those who claim to be Christian are only out for one thing ..The saving of self.What can I do for me ...me me me .....whats in it for me me me ....
Forget about self ...God will work on you as you share your love your faith your hope with others ..
Seek to save those who are lost and who have no hope ..and do not know love .... and the Lord will save you.

It really boils down to DIEING TO SELF ... ...the ME ME ME attitude is why we are in this mess today in our world ...

reply to post by moocowman


Dude, that second post above was a lot more thought provoking. Now you're talking.

Serious food for thought. Profound.

Hey there Mooo ....(((((((HUGS )))))))))) hope that helps....

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by prestonberryworth

 

Hi.

I would really like to move to an island and form a society with the intent to raise child with absolutely no religious structures. I'd really like to see how these kids grow up, function, and how they percieve life, afterlife, god.

Ever read 'Lord of the Flies'?

Ever looked into what happened in Communist Albania 'The First Self-Proclaimed Atheist Nation on Earth'?

(Clue: a society devastated by crime, alcoholism and psychotic hopelessness. Of course people have been brought up in this way in many families, and not just in Albania. No morals, no respect for God. Pimps and human traffickers often hail from such homes. Come to think of it, in Europe many of the worst are - coincidentally - Albanian.)

What you get is egotism gone mad.

Atheists we meet from day to day who are reasonable, decent-living people simply cannot escape the fact that their sense of morality and justice owes a great deal to the influence of the Judeo-Christian perspective.

An Atheist is in a tight spot though.. They are constantly surrounded by people with the same opinions.. Now even if one of them is having second thoughts and thinking "maybe religions are ok", he will never voice his opinion because he knows how opinionated the other guy is.. Commonly the smarter guy will try to shift his opinions but the 2nd guy is too stupid to even attempt a debate with.. Its a no go zone..

An Atheist is also influenced by hardliner parents (police offers, construction workers - i know of 2 personally) and sometimes money is a key influence in the transition - the attitude that you feed your own happiness through a very generous income will degrade religious dedication in a lot of cases.

I think an atheist, living by them selves and not seeing the past influences on their opinion - are well and truly capable of developing a neutrality towards religion and dumping the Atheist profile.

Im happy to argue with an Atheist any time of the week but it has to be in writing as they are opportunist vultures during a face to face debate.

Originally posted by moocowman
No evidence for the existance of God outside or not sourced from the mind of man has been produced. Thus God is simply a belief system of the mind, nothing more. reply to post by malcr

 

Well there you go dude, you've gone and done it you've said those magic words "No Evidence".

Now we can expect page after page of bible thumpers posting verses or christian links and such, somehow proving there is evidence.


I get ticked off about this because they've had nearly 2000 years and still nothing new just the same old nonproof yawn.

Hey Moocowman..

Possibly you can be my first experiment.. Where abouts do you live in the world?

I am not waving any flag for any religion so let me make that clear.. I want to discuss/debate this with you in private, i really don't want it to trail across the forums at this stage..

The results of our discussion will obviously be posted here so if i fail completely you can have your fun at my expense..