Is Religion Simply A Security Blanket? INTELLIGENT Discussion With NO FLAMING

Dave;

Thanks for relating what is no doubt a very personal story. That takes courage. I also want to say you have my condolences on the death of your mother, especially that time of the year.

My mother is getting up their in years and I really don't know how I will react when she does pass, hopefully with the strength her and my father instilled in me, and hopefully with some measure of grace.

Originally posted by shipovfools
Aleister Crowley, Peter Caroll and Robert Anton Wilson (among others, I am sure) have all encouraged the adoption of arbitrary belief systems at will. It offers the chance to explore a foreign mindset and you learn about yourself in the process. The idea is not to "debunk" all religions but find what works for you in each of them.
[edit on 21-9-2008 by shipovfools]

What a fascinating idea. That must take tremendous self-control, to make yourself believe something! I don't know if I would even be capable. It would take a ton of courage too. I'd worry about becoming brainwashed. I doubt it's even a good idea, but it's certainly a fascinating one.

The biggest thing that broke the religious spell over me was Paul and Peter's insistence that "wives, obey your husbands". I never had a problem with the Ten Commandments, because they all made sense, but to add to it something so illogical and for so many pastors to enforce such a rule, pushed me right out of the "church". Thank God. It gave me room to study many other religions, a curiosity that was, again, driven by my fear of "Hell", just in case I was in the wrong. Now that the fear is gone, my focus is much clearer than when I began my journey.

I do believe in an unseen force, "God", and always will, but I believe we should all discover that on our own and stop following other people just because of a story coming out of their mouths.

reply to post by capgrup


Much appreciated.... thanks. Yeah, these are very personal. But I cannot ask my fellow members and friends to tell their stories about their faith or lack of if I don't open myself up and be honest to start with. It's funny, but on a lot of things that are posted on our home... it is better and more insightful than any shrink in the world. Maybe I should change the name of this to:

Dave's Therapy Thread.

Thanks again...

Dave

[edit on 9/21/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

If god is the power of nature then I believe in god . If god is a ranting fundamentalist using god as an excuse to rape torture murder and steal then I do not believe in god.
For most religious people god is an excuse for fear and ignorance , a way for rich powerfull agnostics to manipulate their congregation.

personally , I have always admired lao tzu and his definition of the tao which to me is just practical common sense ,not a religion at all .

Buddhists are pretty cool in my book. Its about the only religious organisation that seems to at least practice what it preaches .

I have in the past worked closely with religious organisations of many faiths . For many ,the church gives a sense of community and belonging and or a surrogate family . Thats okay as long as they practice what they preach , BUT many do not .

paedophile rings LOVE churches , its the perfect cover .Business people LOVE churches .Its a great place to network and launder cash .
Governements love churches because it boxes people up and makes them easier to lie to convincingly .

Mother nature is my church . She is long suffering and patient but I think she is reaching the end of ther tether right now.

Is Religion Simply A Security Blanket?

Yes, I belive that is true. It is something that we come up with in the caves of long ago. When we left the caves we should have left it behind but we didn't. Now we are paying the price for bring it along. Look at all the deaths caused it. All the wars and fighting because of it. In the end it could lead to our downfall. We should have left it in the caves.

Religion is a security blanket as well as another tool that has been used against mankind to "keep the smart little apes in line".

It is also a valid tool that has been used to divide mankind.

United we stand divided we fall.

Religion is simply mind control , manipulating people to believe what the manipulators want them to believe.

Again, it is about power and control.

Some of the most spriritually evolved people I have met were not religious.

The following is from David Icke's book, Tales From The Timeloop (page 41):

Official history has been changed to hide the fact that the world has been controlled by the same interbreeding tribe for thousands of years. This is never more so than with the major religions. They all have inner and outer levels of knowledge. The inner level carries the secrets going back to the ancient Mystery schools of places like Sumer, Babylon and Egypt. These include the secrets of the bloodline and only the chosen few are initiated into the awarementsss. The outer level is where the secrets are hidden in code and allegory and sold, with a deity, to the masses as the truth. The New Testament Gospel stories ar based on the iniation ceremonies and esoteric secrets, including astrology and Sun worship - that were performed and communicated in the Mystery schools. But they are presented as a literal story to fool the people. The religions, not least Christianity, Judaism and Islam (all spawned from the same source) are carriers of the secrets (inner) and controlled of the people by hiding the secrets with allegedly literal stories (outer). The same basic Jesus tale of the Son of God who died for humanity was told around the world thousands of years before Christianity. This is related to the winter solstice or midwinter festival when the Sun is at the least powerful point in its cyccle in the northern hesiphere. They said that on the solstice, our December 21/22nd, the Sun had died. Three days later - the 25th, they said the Sun was born or born again. Thus we have a long line of Sun gods given the birthday of December 25th.

the Jesus of the Gospels in a symbol of the Sun and the stories include a host of other Mystery school knowledge and esoteric concepts.

Long before Christianity they had a ritual in Pesia in which a young man, apparently dead, was restored to life. he was called the Saviour and his suffereings were said to have ensured the salvation of the people.

the same tale was told in Egypt about Horus, their Son of God and in India it was told about Krishna a thousand years before Christianity.

the methods of manipulation can be summarised like this:

- You need to first imprison the human mind with a rigid belief and a fundamentally limited sense of reality, the sheep pen. It doesn't much matter what these beliefs may be, so long as they are rigid and discourage free thought and open minded questioning. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and all the reest each make their contribution to human servitude while apparently claiming different "truths".

- You encourage those who follow these rigid beliefs to impose them on others and make life very difficult and unpleasant for anyone who does not conform.

- You bring these beliefs into conflict to ensure the divide and rule you so desperately need for control by the few. While the masses are busy fighting each other, they don't see that the Illuminati have strings attached to all of them."...........David Icke "Tales From The Time Loop".

Below is a short (6 minutes) link to a video talk on Religion by David Icke.

video.google.com...

So many wars, so much torture and death all in the name of God.

Religion also keeps us "side tracked" and away from finding our own true spirituality and potential.

In my humble opinion, it is a "primitive mindset".

We are all connected like drops of water making up a ocean, that whole ocean, with all the drops of water melted together is the oneness or "God" and that includes each and everyone of us.

----------------------------

When I do good, I feel good; when I do bad, I feel bad, and that is my religion. Abraham Lincoln


[edit on 21-9-2008 by ofhumandescent]

Is religion simply a security blanket?

I think that is a slightly harsh question. Hope is a better word and probably one of the most powerful and sustaining, one that I think is the right of every individual. In my opinion religion provides the light at the end of the tunnel for a majority of the people. Why would anyone want to climb a mountain without the hope of ever reaching the top, or continue living in a prescribed way without the hope of something better.

Before I go further, let me state that I am an Atheist. I was baptised and raised as a Roman Catholic, educated in Roman Catholic schools and institutions and therefore had a lot of religious influence. I should also add that I have had a fairly comfortable and contented life till now, therefore there were no "incidents" that moved me away from religious beliefs. My intententions are similar to the OP, to let you know my views and to learn about yours.

Although, I profess to be an atheist, I have the utmost respect for all religions. From my limited knowledge, I know that all religions essentially try to teach us about right and wrong, and about how to lead a good life with others. One may point out that, if religions are good, why move away or reject them. My reason for that is because humans have a basic level of intelligence that allows us to think freely and logically about what is right.

I do not need someone to tell me that stealing is wrong or that killing is wrong, I think we are intelligent enough to realise the consequences of a society where it is otherwise. I do not need some religious text to tell me that I should be charitable and benevolent, nor that I should lead a good life. I think therefore I am, I think therefore know that I should lead a good life in harmony with all around me. Furthermore, because we can think we can adapt to the changing world and redefine to ourselves what is right and what is wrong, about people having different views, about women's rights, about our environment, etc.

Moving on to my views on God and afterlife. And yes, I do fear death, I lay awake numerous nights thinking what would happen to me if I died tomorrow. To borrow from an old popular BBC TV series, "The objective is to have a lived a worthwhile life, to have contributed something (anything), not to be a great philanthopist or to have painted the Sistine Chapel, but to have led a life that was not totally ego-centric, vein and self-serving, to seize the gift of life". That is my view on the question of life - to be human, my afterlife is to be remembered by atleast a few as a "jolly nice fellow".

I could go on on a rant but that would exceed the bounds of a sensible forum post. It was not my intention to offend anyone, but if I have I apologise.

At times, my fellow members here on ATS really surprise me, and in a great way.

It's very refreshing to see a thread discussing religion/lack of withoug any flame wars, name calling etc. I gotta give you all two up. Wish we could do this in political threads too.



One more reason I love ATS.



Peace,
FK

reply to post by Dave Rabbit
I too was brought up in the Catholic Faith.

Went to church six days a week, one hour long mass each day.

Back at that time we could not eat anything until after communion and often times I would faint. I am not talking fading I mean a full faint and this happened probably a dozen times.

No one picked me up, no one "cared" not even the nuns seemed to notice I just kept fainting. Later in life I found out I had low blood sugar.

You want personal accounts, try two weeks after burying my mother at the age of ten having a group of girls holding hands making a ring a round the rosey circle around you singing, ha ha you don't have a mother, your the only one who doesn't have a mom.............these were "Catholic/Christian" girls.

Some of the meanest and most cruelest people I have known were "religious".

Take the middle ages, how in the hell could anyone take another human being and torture, mutilate and kill them the way they did all in the name of "God".

Again, it's not about saving one's soul it's all a power trip, a "You will believe and do as I say or else".

Religion is a method of mind control and it's been an effective tool to keep the hairless little talking apes in line for ages..........

One of the most significant books I have ever read was The Gods of Eden By William Bramley and he goes into detail about how he believes the various religions came about.

I firmly believe that religion is not only a security blanket but holding mankind back from realizing his true potential and breaking free from such a primitive mindset.

Religion also gives man an out, the devil made me do it, or the security of "knowing" I can go to church Sunday and be "forgiven" for messing over all my fellow human beings Monday - Saturday.

I really believe that David Icke has a handle on why religion was invented and firmly believe that the various religions have been "upgraded" as the need arose to keep our species in line.

God is in all of us and our beautiful planet, Mother Earth that we have been privledged to visit for this short experience we call life.

[edit on 21-9-2008 by ofhumandescent]

I have a roman catholic upbringing, but I never quite felt part of it and left it because I just didn't agree with it on many levels. I refuse to identify myself as an atheist however, even though I do not believe in a supreme sentient deity or god and see no evidence for it; I still have superstitions of my own. And most atheists I've known make the claim to be free of superstitions in regards to paranormal phenomenon. I try to stay away from labels anyway. If someone asks, I'll just say I'm not religious.

In my opinion, terrorism should not be confused with religion. They are misguided individuals with distorted beliefs. Many religions advocate fighting for what is right, but never condone killing of innocent people.

Religions, as social institutions should be to bring people together, not to take them apart.

PS : My earlier post was as Anonymous at 21-9-2008 @ 03:48 PM.

And to simply throw something out that I hated when I was a Roman Catholic...... Fish On Fridays. Damn I got sick of that routine. "No Cheeseburgers? Come on Dad.".

Okay.... another true story.... not so dramatic. I have always loved Biblical Movies for some reason. Ben Hur being one of my favorites for years. Of course The Ten Commandments has really stood the test of time with me. Maybe I felt comfort in my own questionable world with the positive message of faith, which I desperately wanted, but really never had. Maybe it was the fact that I really do hate to read and prefer the visual image of story telling when it comes to religion. Who knows. I do know this. I have been here a little over two years, been to hundreds of threads, did ATS MIX shows on hundreds of topics.... but until this thread..... have I ever been More PROUD of my fellow members and guests for the way you have taken a serious subject, albeit controversial, and have had the CLASS to discuss, confide and support the fellow members and guests even though they had a different view.

As we have many intelligent women members I will alter the original quote by George C. Scott from Patton.......

Damn I'm Proud of These Members

Thanks for keeping up the Intelligence Factor for all of us!

Dave


[edit on 9/21/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

To me (talking about my faith not religion) it is not just a metaphoric blanket, but an actual invisible shield of the highest power.

There are those who have experienced supernatural help so life changing, so powerful and complete, yet thought to be so impossible in this physical world that it changes their view of everything they formerly accepted as a concrete truth.

Sort of like the simple yet wise man that said, " No one believes in UFOs until they finally see one". For most of us, seeing really is believing.

In my case this intervention happened during a prayer to "The Heavenly Father". It was something that so impacted my life, that I now take what the Bible says as empirical truth. And why shouldn't I? I have proof by my own senses that there really is a God in Heaven, and Jesus Christ was His Son.

So If you can't understand why some people cling so hard to their faith
it is probably because you haven't experienced this same kind of supernatural intervention that they have.

God has interveined in literally millions of other peoples lives as well. Sometimes He does it because the person has a lot of love in their heart, which God really admires and extoles as the greatest thing to have.

But now I have opened myself and this little gem of truth to those who would try to take the thread "off" in directions of but if's, and why's.

Can a created mortal presume to answer for a God who can answer prayer in the blink of an eye, cause the earth to reverse rotation and change matter at His whim.

No, I'm just telling why my FAITH - and NOT MY RELIGION has helped me through this life. It has given me a purpose, a reason for being, and given me clarity of thought.

It has helped me to understand that there are things we may not be able to see, yet they are there.

And sometimes the truth is so simple that is it easily overlooked. Simple, yet "out of this world" to be exact. I think that is why so many people are hostile towards the truth. It would mean accepting something that goes against their own accepted truths comfort zone.

And what role does true faith play? It is the only thing God will honor. Without a faith in the "God In Heaven" I know the miracle that was done for me would not have happened. Because the prayer was directed at the God of the Bible, and not Allah, or Lucifer, or mother earth, or my long lost relatives.

So in my case, FAITH not Religion, really is my safety blanket of the highest order...An unseen, yet widely used shield that changes the imposiible into the possible.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

the methods of manipulation can be summarised like this: - You need to first imprison the human mind with a rigid belief and a fundamentally limited sense of reality, the sheep pen. It doesn't much matter what these beliefs may be, so long as they are rigid and discourage free thought and open minded questioning. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and all the reest each make their contribution to human servitude while apparently claiming different "truths". - You encourage those who follow these rigid beliefs to impose them on others and make life very difficult and unpleasant for anyone who does not conform. - You bring these beliefs into conflict to ensure the divide and rule you so desperately need for control by the few. While the masses are busy fighting each other, they don't see that the Illuminati have strings attached to all of them."...........David Icke "Tales From The Time Loop".

You do know that the exact sequence of MC is precisely how a "patriot" is designed. Jesus preached the KOG. He attempted to break the MC into which we are all "first born". This is what is meant by being "born again"... all new institutions (family/church/state). Now about that "rigid dogma"... the only law that Jesus preached is that there are NO EXCUSES for any act that is not forged within the fire of forgiveness and love.

She was originally married to my real Grandfather who was the local pastor of that town’s Baptist Church (who I never knew until I was about 40 and met for the first time before he died)

.

Okay.... to address this loose end. I never knew about all the history of my Grandfather and my Mother as I said. My Mom called me one day and said I would like you to come by and meet Barney. I asked her who the hell he was and she told me it was her Father, my Grandfather. Reluctantly I said yes and my wife at the time and I went over to my Mom's house to meet the guy. I have to tell you.... it was like meeting someone's next door neighbor.

I would find out during my conversation with my Aunt, after Mom died, that Barney had contacted my Mom. He was dying of cancer at the time and only had an extremely short time to live. My Aunt told me it was to ask for my Mom's forgiveness for what he had done to her physically and mentally. She forgave him, my Aunt said.... and unknown to me because of my indifference to him..... visited him and was with him when he died. My Mom and Step-Dad paid for his funeral, buried him and were the only two there at his graveside. Had I known what he did to my Mom, I would have punched his friggin' lights out when I met him then. But, my Mom was a smart woman. She knew how protective of her I was.... thus the family secret being secret until after she died.

I guess if my Mom could forgive him for what he did to her... the torment she suffered from it all... I guess that says something about her faith?

Dave

[edit on 9/21/2008 by Dave Rabbit]

the second part of your story really touched me Dave

So I am gonna reveal some private info too because you gave the good example and you deserve to know mine.

It reminds me a lot of my own Grandma, such a good person that she doesn't need to wait at the gate when she passes.

I already know that that would break my heart too because she is the best example I have had in life about being good in my family.

She is 84, catholic but doesn't care about church anymore and she and I have had some spiritual discussions.

When I was 14 my Uncle (her son) and Aunt died on Valentines day in a horrible accident and she never lost her faith.

It broke up almost the whole family but not me and my grandma.

though I am not religious I am spiritual and I cannot accept that there is nothing after life,

but I think I have seen prove there is.

Shortly After my Uncle and Aunt died (they lived close to my parents house and I seen them every day when I walked to school) two doves began nesting in a tree in front of the house.

They came back every year for about 5 years.

I always thought that was some kind of sign.

I hope this helps you a bit and I can only applaud your thoughts and honesty.

You are a great guy so keep the faith

Grey Magic

Edit - 1 spelling error that slipped through

[edit on 21-9-2008 by Grey Magic]

This is a long post because I've got 4 pages to catch up with already...

I can pretty much understand your viewpoint on religion, Dave. As I was growing up, my parents never saw fit to drag me into church, figuring that I should come up with my own opinions...For that much, I thank them. I was at least able to allow my own Faith to develop as I matured, looking into the different religions, research some origins in history & so forth. As near as I can figure out my own self ( ), I've come to consider myself Fatihful, but not Religious...Which is to say that I do have a Faith that the Laws of Nature came out too "organized" to have been by random chance, but I don't view God as most doctrines portray Him. I don't think I consider myself Religious, because my research into history has given me a total distain of organized religion: It's the Organization that treats its own Religion with such hyppcrisy as to enter the realm of absurdity (preaching Peace & yet look at all of the Crusades, Inquisitions, Jyhads, etc.).

In my belief, if God really did Create All, then a part of Him also resides in All, including us as individuals (even if we have trouble recognizing it sometimes). In as much that I feel that if someone hasn't been able to find God in their own heart, they're sure as hell never going to find Him in a Church. As such, if someone puts more faith into the Church of Organized Religion, then it can quickly become a security blanket...But when someone has true Faith, then the "security blanket" isn't needed.

Originally posted by KOGDOG
How ironic... a thread originated by a "patriot/vet" asking if "religion is a security blanket" on a Site dedicated to conspiracy theories ranging from government cover-ups of UFO's, 911 Truth, and now the controlled demolition of the global economic "system".

Nothing ironic about it being posted in ATS...Organized Religion is responsible for lots of conspiracies down throughout history. In fact, most (if not all) of the conspiracies discussed here on ATS have posts that point out that there may even be a religious "influence" behind them even now!

As to the Laws of Nature I've already mentioned, I believe that everything is far too organized & interlocked with itself to have been random chance...And humanity's study of Sciences also proves that to me. The way I see it, all branches of all Sciences have, at their very root, a common study into the Laws of Nature that forms the basis of all human knowledge. Any real Science started out that way...Observation, Contemplation & Experimentation in order to build upon the knowledge of Nature. It's through knowing the Laws of Nature that we can better come to know ourselves as human beings...Even the Christian Bibles say that humanity "came from the Earth." This is not to say that some Entity picked up a handful of dirt & breathed life into it, but more to say that we evolved through the Laws of Nature to get where we are today.

I've heard some people say that homo sapiens sapiens is the "chief product of evolution," but I would disagree with that...As that, while humanity still survives as a species, we will continue to evolve in time. After all, the basis of Darwin's Theory of evolution is that lower-order lifeforms will tend to evolve into higher-order lifeforms, given continued survival & the ability to adapt to its environment. Whereas other species must rely mostly on physical adaptations to survive in changing climates (after all, the Earth has experienced periodic ice ages & the continental drift causes climates ot change over time as the land masses move & "bump" into each other), humanity's intelligence has developed the ability to create tools that help us adapt. There have been occasional mass-extinctions throughout history & the species that didn't survive are the ones who couldn't adapt quickly enough...Yet humans can adapt more quickly (through our technologies) to have a chance to survive long enough for physical evolution to catch up.

And yet, our survival as a species is still locked into the Laws of Nature...Human Nature has developed only due to the existence of the Laws of Nature. Take for example, the 10 Commandments...Basically, a set of common-sense "rules" that allow for us to live with each other as a common species while still living within the Laws of Nature. The blunt fact is that we still rely on the Laws of Nature because the Earth is our only home...If we mess it up bad enough, we'll only wind up extinct, but Nature itself will recover & re-balance itself long after we're gone.

Originally posted by Grey Magic
I wish we would abolish organized religion in every way and make it individual religion.

This is one point that leads me to believe that the US Constitution was a work of sheer genius on the part of the Founding Forefathers...They clearly had the Laws of Nature firmly set into their minds when they wrote it to form a unique government that emphasizes the individual over the government it establishes. In this particular case, just check out the 1st Amendment (bold emphasis is mine):

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The Constitution even forbids any particular "test" of religion in the choosing of government Officials, specifically in Article 6, Clause 3:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

In essence, this Clause specifies that the government should always put their loyalties in the People first but still allow for defending the Right to practice religion as the individual sees fit (as long as the practice of such religion does not infringe upon the equal Rights of others).

Originally posted by dunwichwitch
...Convenience, which is kind of a friendly way of saying "lack of self-responsibility", I guess is a big giant security blanket.

Also, just as with the Laws of Nature & the Constitution, it stresses the same tenant: We are all free to do what we will in order to survive, but we must also be prepared to accept the responsibility for the consequences of what we do...As the "Ruling Elite" violate the Laws of Nature by allowing excessive pollution & "tinkering" too far beyond our wisdom to control ourselves (such as with the new "genetically enhanced foods"), Nature itself begins to re-align for balance (ie: such as the GE foods starting to kill off pollinators (such as bees), as mentioned in the link--If the GE foods have trouble pollinating, food crops also suffer), they also violate their Oaths of Office to the Constitution & American society itself crumbles until a new balance is achieved. In essence, it also comes down to Newton's 3rd Law of "action & reaction." Even Human Ethics will produce repercussions when violated!

In short, the Constitution follows the same kind of pattern of "intelligence" as seen in the Laws of Nature...In that it's parts have a synergy, interlocking all parts together so that the whole is more than equal to the mere sum of its parts. Even the Constitution itself is a work of "evolution" as it began with the Magna Carta of 1215, developed through the "new environment" of the Colonies on the North American Continent while suffering through a "climate change" during the War of Independence, passing through the stages of the Continental Congress (& the Articles of Confederation) until it achieved the form it has today...And it's still a "living" document, as it has the capability of more adaptation through the process of Amendments! It's all just like the Laws of Nature that created Life in such a variety & abundance on this planet & maintains Life despite the global climatic changes down through history.

These are the reasons why, IMO, that humanity is moving (socially) towards individual self-responsibility. Because these big "organizations" have always sought to impose some form of "mass-belief" system on individuals & since the advent of a publicly-accessible internet, individuals are learning & growing on our own...Without the "benefit" of external "guidance."

Originally posted by Dave Rabbit
It's funny, but on a lot of things that are posted on our home... it is better and more insightful than any shrink in the world.

This is a good example about the freedom in the internet...With the pittance that an internet connection costs, you're saving thousands compared to seeing a shrink over a period of months or years! Look at all of the group-therapy you've gotten just over the past 4 pages of this thread!
This is a perfect example of what I mention later (about the Iowa flooding) in this post about individuals not needing to be forced to help each other...Which is what people are doing across the world & on the internet. Far better for individuals to voluntarily gather together at need than to rely on the old, broken-down systems of organized controls initiated by force.

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