WHAT Does Gary Mckinnon REALLY know

reply to post by ANoNyMiKE


So if he didn't download any actual evidence perhaps you could explain why:-

1) Photo's and documentation downloaded were confiscated by the Police at the time of the arrest?

2) Why the Americans are so keen for this "evidence" NOT to be shown publicly in a British Court?

3) Why the same effort isn't being put into the extradition of the dangerous terrorist Abu Hamza?

4) Why there is a virtual news-blackout on the McKinnon story here in the UK?

I'm sure with your obvious great knowledge of Gary's case answering these four questions should prove quite easy for you!

Ross



[edit on 10-9-2008 by nomadrush]

Originally posted by Obsrvr
I am very puzzled by a country (the UK) that would not pull out all the stops, or simply say "FU" outright to a bully like the US, in response to this case and the extradition request. This man is a UK citizen. He does not have to set one foot outside of the UK if the UK says so. Why is the British government playing the lackey? Has it forgotten how to lead?

Britain, stand on your own. The rest of the world will respect you more if you thumb your nose at Uncle Sam and keep your man home. Throw him a parade. The queen should have him to dinner and knight him.

Obsrvr

[edit on 9/10/08 by Obsrvr]

By extradition and prosecution of this man, they corroborate his statements.

[edit on 9/10/08 by Obsrvr]

Hello Obsrver
Kirky
And well observed. The reason is pretty plain. The US/UK Governments are in Bed together, that farcical “special relationship” which stems from ww2 and the breaking up of the middle east and else where after ww2 ended. The special relationship was all about oil/money/power/control.

It’s common knowledge like just in the USA our politicians our weak, spineless and corruptible. They will do anything to keep their jobs with a mentality of “FU its more than my job’s worth”

Gary seen # that the US/UK don’t want Mr Joe Soap public to know about as it would expose them for the scumbags they really are. Tony/Gordon and all the rest of the political low life in the UK parliament take their marching orders from the USA Gov like it or not. The US Gov use bully tactics to get their way in all of their NATO dealings. Your vote counts for feck all. Gordon/Jackie are only small pawns in a much bigger game being played out at the minute. As soon as Gordon (brown PM supposedly) has over reached his usefulness he’ll be laid off so another prick can be brought it. AAAAA yes another yesman like Cameron.

Gary does not stand a chance as the political wrangling regarding the new extraditment laws were changed before anyone knew what was really going on. If the USA wants you, even if your guilty of sweet FA, rest assured your head WOULD be served up on a silver platter by the UK government. Nuff said.

If voting changed anything they would probably make it illegal. Thanks for the input m8

Respect and peace
Kirky


[edit on 10-9-2008 by kirky]

Originally posted by nomadrush
reply to post by ANoNyMiKE

 

So if he didn't download any actual evidence perhaps you could explain why:-

1) Photo's and documentation downloaded were confiscated by the Police at the time of the arrest?

2) Why the Americans are so keen for this "evidence" NOT to be shown publicly in a British Court?

3) Why the same effort isn't being put into the extradition of the dangerous terrorist Abu Hamza?

4) Why there is a virtual news-blackout on the McKinnon story here in the UK?

I'm sure with your obvious great knowledge of Gary's case answering these four questions should prove quite easy for you!

Ross



[edit on 10-9-2008 by nomadrush]

I really could not have put that better Ross. Like your style man. Respect
Peace
Kirky

reply to post by ANoNyMiKE


Gary has never denied what he did and has always had the same story.
He hasnt been caught lying and then tried to cover his tracks.

If he was using the UFO story to get off surely he would of told the US that he sent all information found to another server straight away and if he leaves him alone he want talk.

How does claiming to look for UFOs and not being able to save any evidence help his case.

P.S

can people stop saying that that sort of info wouldnt be availble on the internet so therefore he is lying.
He didnt find it on the internet but on a NASA network that had blank passwords.
The internet is just one network, there are many others.

Hi all
I took this from Garys Support blog, makes interesting reading, sort of sums up a lot of peoples views about how much the US Gov and its detention process has deteriorated since 9/11.

freegary.org.uk...
This blog website is intended to support British citizen Gary McKinnon, who is facing "fast track" extradition to the USA (after over five six years since his initial arrest !). Gary was indicted by a US court in November 2002, accused of "hacking" into over 90 US Military computer systems from here in the UK. The unjust treatment of British citizens (and others) when facing the might of the US Military "justice" system, which practices detention without trial in Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere, and stands accused of making use of torture by allied regimes ("extraordinary rendition") is an ongoing scandal. It cannot be excused even by a "war on terror". It seems only just that Gary should face any charges in a British court, and to serve any sentence, if he is found guilty, in a British prison.

Respect and peace
Kirky


[edit on 10-9-2008 by kirky]

Originally posted by nomadrush
reply to post by ANoNyMiKE

 

So if he didn't download any actual evidence perhaps you could explain why:-

1) Photo's and documentation downloaded were confiscated by the Police at the time of the arrest?

2) Why the Americans are so keen for this "evidence" NOT to be shown publicly in a British Court?

3) Why the same effort isn't being put into the extradition of the dangerous terrorist Abu Hamza?

4) Why there is a virtual news-blackout on the McKinnon story here in the UK?

I'm sure with your obvious great knowledge of Gary's case answering these four questions should prove quite easy for you!

Ross



[edit on 10-9-2008 by nomadrush]

Alright, look guys, I'm not taking time out of my morning because I feel I owe you something nor do I have some kind of personal stake in this Gary fellow; so I would appreciate a little less hostility. I thought I explained things fairly well and I'm somewhat dumbfounded at why this isn't good enough.

However I will answer your questions to the best of my ability.

1) Anyone being charged with any sort of computer related crime, be it for illegally downloading music, creating counterfeit bills or illegally gaining access to a private network; WILL have their entire computer confiscated for evidence as well as every digital storage device they find in his possession.

2) Can you please clarify exactly what the American's have said they would not allow to be shown in British court? Off the top of my head, they're treating as a matter of national security aren't they? Then obviously they would want as little as possible spoken of outside of an American court, no?

3) Isn't one national security breach as severe as any other? I think your overstating it just a little. I don't think you actually have any documentation to show that Gary is as valuable as you say.

4) Again, I think you overstate his importance. Maybe this is a hot topic in the UFO community, but it's not really a big story. It's like when someone has a "UFO encounter", we may think this is amazing and wonder why the government isn't taking this sort of thing seriously. When in reality, the government really doesn't apply much, if any, credibility to everyone who writes a UFO tell all novel.

reply to post by ANoNyMiKE


You obviously HAVE got the wrong end of the stick here, and I'm not being any more hostile than you are with your one-sided "I'm educated so I must be right" approach to this.

Gary admits he committed a "crime" but as the "crime" was committed in a house in North London, he should face trial here in the UK - simple fact of British legal practice.

The USA are forcing extradition in a way not seen before with other "criminals", again I refer to the terrorist Abu Hamza.

As a patriotic Brit, I am standing up for a UK citizen being hung out to dry by his government, and all I ask is that other patriotic Brits do the same.

If the guy is found guilty in a UK court he will serve his time. However it will be an open court-room with ALL evidence visible and a fair sentence rather than 70 years in a US prison!

Ross

reply to post by ANoNyMiKE



Ok Anonymike
Rest assured I am not being hostile, but put the shoe on the other foot for once. If it were one of your own guys say a really innocent irrespective of hacking that was "hung out to dry" as Ross put it mildly, would you want to see that man fry, would you. I know its not a big story to you and I can respect that. Enjoy your day pal.

But Respect in advance to your understanding/compassion for a fellow human being.

Jesus, aren’t we supposed to be allies.
Peace mike
Kirky

Originally posted by nomadrush
reply to post by ANoNyMiKE

 

You obviously HAVE got the wrong end of the stick here, and I'm not being any more hostile than you are with your one-sided "I'm educated so I must be right" approach to this.

Gary admits he committed a "crime" but as the "crime" was committed in a house in North London, he should face trial here in the UK - simple fact of British legal practice.

The USA are forcing extradition in a way not seen before with other "criminals", again I refer to the terrorist Abu Hamza.

As a patriotic Brit, I am standing up for a UK citizen being hung out to dry by his government, and all I ask is that other patriotic Brits do the same.

If the guy is found guilty in a UK court he will serve his time. However it will be an open court-room with ALL evidence visible and a fair sentence rather than 70 years in a US prison!

Ross

I took like 15 minutes to write my initial post and you basically laugh at me like I'm some idiot talking out my ass just because I don't agree with you. So yes, I'm then going to tell you why I'm not talking out my ass and then I'm apparently still wrong even after thoroughly explaining myself.

One thing I'm not, is a lawyer and I won't pretend that I know the underlying legal reason for this. But it seems to me like this is more of a PR thing gone horribly wrong. Gary broke into NASA which, you would think, would have incredibly tight security, this sort of thing should not happen. The alternative to throwing the book at him would be saying "Oh ok, our bad! It's ok that you gained access to our secure intranet because we didn't make it more difficult to break in to." That then sets up a precedence that says "if a private network is relatively easy to gain access to, it's not a crime to do so". They really don't have a choice here it seems.

Do I think 70 years is absolutely ridiculous? Yes!!

Do I think Gary saw some secret UFO photos at NASA? No, the sequence of events that Gary lays out, will not produce the end result that he claims. This is not an opinion, but a fact and yes this is based on my education and job background, I feel that it applies.

Why would Gary say he saw secret UFO photos if he didn't?
Gary got caught. Since he was caught and the reason he was caught was for gaining access to a network within NASA; Gary can say he saw photo's of secret UFO's and some people will believe him without seeing evidence. They will believe him because they want to, because it was a NASA network and people like us are already willing to believe NASA does this kind of thing so it's not so far fetched. The problem is as I explained, the way in which he claims to have viewed such photo's, would not be successful and would not have transpired in the way he said it did. He's created this part of his overall story to give credibility to his claims that although he viewed such data, he could not keep it to show any of us.

reply to post by ANoNyMiKE


OK rather than this hostility let's agree to differ and not ending up cussing each other over this. We have very different view points on this but the one thing we DO seem to agree on is that 70 years is stupidity!

So let's agree to differ on this one.

Ross

Originally posted by nomadrush
reply to post by ANoNyMiKE

 

OK rather than this hostility let's agree to differ and not ending up cussing each other over this. We have very different view points on this but the one thing we DO seem to agree on is that 70 years is stupidity!

So let's agree to differ on this one.

Ross

Agreed. 70 years
Peace people
Kirky

Originally posted by nomadrush
reply to post by ANoNyMiKE

 

OK rather than this hostility let's agree to differ and not ending up cussing each other over this. We have very different view points on this but the one thing we DO seem to agree on is that 70 years is stupidity!

So let's agree to differ on this one.

Ross

No hard feelings

I do see how they are rationalizing it though. In total he accessed 97 computers and faces jail time plus 1.75 million in fines, that's $18,000 and a little under 9 months jail time per host. That's actually entirely within reason and much less than I would recommend trying to get someone for if they had breached security and gotten onto a client on a network I managed.

BUT

It doesn't stack like that. I mean if someone breached a network and then logged onto 10 thousand user accounts trying to find one with administrative rights (I've seen this), you wouldn't try and put them away for 7500 years. At some point it has to cut off and become like a package deal where if he says that he was behind all this it will condense into. There's no way this is on the same level as first degree murder and the courts know this. That's why I believe part of it is media sensationalizing it.

Originally posted by ANoNyMiKE

Originally posted by nomadrush
reply to post by ANoNyMiKE

 

OK rather than this hostility let's agree to differ and not ending up cussing each other over this. We have very different view points on this but the one thing we DO seem to agree on is that 70 years is stupidity!

So let's agree to differ on this one.

Ross

No hard feelings

I do see how they are rationalizing it though. In total he accessed 97 computers and faces jail time plus 1.75 million in fines, that's $18,000 and a little under 9 months jail time per host. That's actually entirely within reason and much less than I would recommend trying to get someone for if they had breached security and gotten onto a client on a network I managed.

BUT

It doesn't stack like that. I mean if someone breached a network and then logged onto 10 thousand user accounts trying to find one with administrative rights (I've seen this), you wouldn't try and put them away for 7500 years. At some point it has to cut off and become like a package deal where if he says that he was behind all this it will condense into. There's no way this is on the same level as first degree murder and the courts know this. That's why I believe part of it is media sensationalizing it.

Hello m8y
I dunno, I could see some Virginian Judge hand down 75 life sentences for one bloke just to make himself famous, lol
Peace
Kirky

Originally posted by janeson
1. Well, they could be letting him talk to give him enough rope to hang himself or if he is lying and had accomplices or something of evidence regarding what he claimed then; the more he talks, the more they can gather a picture of him and whether he acted alone. Or maybe they are right maybe he isn't as stupid as he would have everyone believe.

Agreed... I am sure they want him in the US to properly question him to see if he did save anything...

If he didn't... then he IS stupid... If he did I want first dibs

It's blooming put me off going on their sites to view photos and I know nothing about hacking, surely to God someone would have been alerted if he had downloaded a program to hack? I'm on broadband and I couldn't download TIFFs fully - they time out! So what did he see that he almost got on a Dial-up line?

We had an issue here on one thread... long story... but we found some High Res Tiffs from Apollo... ftp directory here it is for the BRAVE
eol.jsc.nasa.gov...

Notice it is a JSC the same place Gary found stuff

Well we were in the process of downloading a few while discussing them and the ones in question were PULLED in the middle of d/ling... The other tiffs from ISS are still there but they pulled the Apollo ones

I was pissed at myself for not d/ling them all before I posted... I NEVER make that mistake anymore and ALMOST have all the true color Mars Rover pictures on local file...



If you are on broadband you should have no problem with tiffs BUT don't view them in your browser... use right click and save as instead... tiffs are not browser friendly and will normally not load if the are huge

He got a program online? A hacking program? Don't governments employ bods to watch for anything like that?

If he had attempted to HACK a password he would have been spotted... what he did was simply find a computer that was leaft ON overnight with NO PASSWORD.... Kinda like me walking by your desk and snooping in your computer while your on the toilet

He also was stupid enough to view the files online... when he KNEW that anyone near the terminal could watch what he was doing at their end... Had he just d/l stuff in the background he might not have got caught

So someone wasn't doing his or her job.and why aren't they being paraded out to show us all who the lazybones was who was sleeping on the job, surely a question McKinnon's team should ask? I'd like to see this person. Wouldn't you?

We are talking human nature... and we are talking NASA, not SPOOKS... NASA... those guys who can't keep spacecraft from falling apart...

I am sure the person who left that machine on has been reprimanded but you will NEVER see internal discipline dragged into public display

Like those strange men who dress up for war re-enactments, all very odd...but would you say they are mentally ill?

I have had that said once or twice But as they say... "It is Good to be King" Don't knock it till you try it... Even the Enterprise and the Nimitz had a "Barony" on board... sword fighting on the deck... what a sight to behold
You see we relive the Chivalry of those days... when most wars were fought with honor... not impersonal smart bombs flown by children from a video game control miles away

The Navy have always been up to their necks in this, They don't call them the 'Senior Service' for nothing.

Yes so I have been saying for some time... Since the late 1800's actually started with Simon Newcomb at the US Naval Observatory...

And despite what most at ATS think "Solar Warden" is real, though it is NOT under that name

When did the US turn into the schoolyard bully? Was it suddenly taken over by people who secretly hate it and seem determined to destroy it from within by ill thought-out political and military action..Seriously? What happened..?

When? I will tell you when... 1945 two years before the NEXUS year of 1947 that brought in Roswell, Flying Saucers and the Birth of the CIA



We brought over 580 Nazi scientists into this country...

Intelligence and government officials faced a delicate moral quandary in 1945 - whether it was worth it to give American homes to men who had invented weapons to kill American soldiers, men who in some cases subscribed to beliefs that hundreds of thousands Americans had died to eradicate. In the end they decided it was, if these men could help the United States defeat the Soviets.

SOURCE

THIS was the day your government thought it was OKAY to lie to you... Russia NEVER was our enemy... that was another lie... Rivals yes... enemy no... it was all war games... and so is the current 'situation' I know most will never see this... but Wernher von Braun did... but he died of cancer at 66 shortly after resigning from NASA because of the 'Arming of Space' issue

Prescott Bush, Rockefellars and Standard Oil funded the NAZI to power... this is History now... Bush, Rockefellar and Exxon (formerly Standard Oil) are still on the thrown... still making war.... still lying to the people

Nothing has changed there is no NWO... it is the Old World Order doing business as usual...

What will it take to wake up America? I doubt even a Nuke on New York would do it... because we will once again blame someone else...

I am still convinced this has a publicity undercurrent. Have the US they been asked officially about all the other hackers McKinnon says he saw? Why not? Everything leaves an electronic footprint, maybe he's being used as a quiet warning to other governments who were spying on the system?

Maybe they need to get him on American soil before they can do anything. Afterall he is not an Arab Terrorist that we can just wisk off to Gitmo without due process (Another gift from your friendly government ) He is a BRITISH CITIZEN... so we still have to observe some form of protocol here...

I guarantee you if he was from another country... this would not be in the media as openly

This will be my last post on this topic.... it has been clear to me over the last few months that only a small handfull of people care about the truth...

I have shown the secret space program yet few even notice... people like Phage play the obfuscation card... but I am willing to bet he knows a lot more about the state of the art of DEW weapons.... if not well try going to one of the DEW symposiums and you will see...

Oh wait those are 'restricted' Good thing I work at show setup and have 'decent' clearance

How is it connected to Gary? Simple what he saw was the Secret Space Program... not UFO's... and that is why they want to be sure he doesn't know more that he has said...

Now I can look at a list of names... and I am sure to remember at least one or two... the fact that he says he doesn't remember any is suspicious

my email is [email protected]... Anyone interested in what we have on DEW etc feel free to drop me a note... or check out Jack's section on Pegasus

TTFN

reply to post by zorgon


thanks for that nice link to nasa archive photos, I am not going to get into trouble for using them am I?

They have a nice picture of the pyramids on there
eol.jsc.nasa.gov...

Nope no problem on using them They removed everything they don't want us to see...


DAMN that Gary

[edit on 10-9-2008 by zorgon]

I like to think that Gary found what he said he found but one thing thats been nagging me since i originally heard of his story was .... why on earth didnt he take a screen shot or something .... ok the dialup connection was terrible and it took an age to download the image (even after he lowered the screen colours / resolution) but a simple print screen would at least be something that he could show as proof.

Speaking of proof..... maybe he did find something, maybe he did manage to save it somewhere. Could he actually be holding the information back for someone to release IF he gets sent down !!!!!! .. worth thinking about !

reply to post by zorgon


After downloading 2 photos i found interesting from that link, they seem to have cut my connection to the files. or removed them from the internet

Mr. McKinnons predicament.

The What If's are easily answered.

The John Lear Interviews :

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...

We dont dont know what is true and what is not . Simply because we individuals have not been to the Moon or Mars . Nor do we work for those organizations that have access to information and data to confirm or deny anything.

Mr. Lear is an educated man and gives hints and clues and reveals what he can without getting himself or his sources into trouble. We must learn to read between the lines.

Most of what Mr Lear states is independently confirmed by Boyd Bushman (Skunk works) & David Serada .

From here to Andromenda

etc...


Thus what Mr. McKinnon has found out is almost entirely public knowledge.

The matter of accessing the personnel records however was not wise .

The Space Corps is Public knowledge. The Airfoce has a web apge for it.

Thought I would inquire what Dr Stephen Greer has to say about this farce. Got a reply back very quickly which was very surprising good guys they are
'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
Peace Kirky


Dr. Steven Greer is aware of Gary's circumstances and is doing what he can, along with others he is working with.

Regards,

Debbie

******[email protected] wrote:
> Hello
> A quick one only. Gary Mckinnon is going to be fired soon. A UK man that commits a hacking offence into Pentagon computers and know the dirt on the US Gov. We started a new thread at ATS and someone was keen to know what Dr Stephen Greer thinks about this. Its a real disgrace. I am also a supporter of the Disclosure Project. Cheers keep up the good work. A utopia some day maybe.
>
> Kind regards.
>
> Kirky
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