WHAT Does Gary Mckinnon REALLY know

reply to post by nomadrush

So in an American court the truth wont come out? I'm not sure, but I think you just implied that the American court system is corrupt and unconstitutional(:lol.
If Gary even makes it to court and is not found in his cell, a victim of 'suicide', then I suppose that he will spill the beans for the record. I dont see how there can be any other outcome. He HAS to speak about his 'crimes' in the courtroom so whatever he has to say will come out.
I'm still trying to figure out how a British citizen can commit a crime on British soil and be tried in the U.S..........???????

reply to post by zorgon


It has to be pointed out it is only treason when you are from the same country it would be classed as espionage as he is from scotland.

With the whole "if you cant do the time dont do the crime"
you are talking about agencies and gov bodies that would be shut down if they followed that ethos.

These agencies are as dirty as anyone and they do to us what gary did to them and yet get away with it ( probably claiming it has something to do "national security") and i dont want to hear "if youve nothing to hide then there is nothing to fear".
I guess these people believe that there are never miscarriages of justice.

Originally posted by zorgon


Here is the lasers in action... Look at the focal point... if indeed they were aiming at a 'star' the beams would be almost parallel... It is clear that the 'target' is a LOT closer than the closest star...

Nice catchy name too huh?

STARFIRE

Yup. A LOT closer all right! They're not aiming at a star, they are aiming at a point in the atmosphere in order to create an artificial guide star, used for image correction with adaptive optics.
Laser Guide Stars

But you already knew that, didn't you?

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Phage]

Originally posted by neo2012
It has to be pointed out it is only treason when you are from the same country it would be classed as espionage as he is from scotland.

My 'treason' comment was in regards to anyone here holding classified material, but you are correct, I was remiss in not including espionage...

However forgive me if I don't see the difference

These agencies are as dirty as anyone and they do to us what Gary did to them and yet get away with it ( probably claiming it has something to do "national security")

Well sure, that may well be the case... but the problem is that 'they' have the backing of the law behind them, we don't... so I stand by what I say... if you are going to poke sticks at the big boys, you shouldn't be surprised if they poke back with a bigger stick

I guess these people believe that there are never miscarriages of justice.

Why would they? We keep paying their salary

As to the 'if you have nothing to hide" bit... You know, they are actually very helpful if you knock on the front door and say 'please' They do tend to talk in monotones and don't smile a lot... but you would be surprised at the info you can get... they just get 'annoyed' when you try to do and end run around them

Originally posted by Phage
But you already knew that, didn't you?

Starfire Optical Range

Starfire Optical Range is a United States Air Force research laboratory on the Kirtland Air Force Base in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Their primary duty, according to their official website, is to "develop and demonstrate optical wavefront control technologies". The range is a secure lab facility (SLAB) and they are a division of the Directed Energy Directorate of the Air Force Research Laboratory.

Among their optical equipment, they have a 3.5 meter telescope (which they claim is "one of the largest telescopes in the world equipped with adaptive optics designed for satellite tracking"), a 1.5 meter telescope, and a 1.0 meter beam director.

According to an article published on May 3, 2006 in the New York Times, research is being conducted at the laboratory into how to use ground-based lasers to disable satellites; that is, as an anti-satellite weapon. According to the article, research is being conducted so that the ground-based laser would be able to use adaptive optics to remove the effects of atmospheric turbulence.

Auxiliary Beam Director


Courtesy of US Air Force

The beam director is used primarily for projecting laser beams at space objects and is occasionally used for making wide field images of astronomical objects. The coelostat is capable of pointing over a complete hemisphere while allowing lasers and sensors to remain stationary in the attached laboratory.

Directed Energy Directorate

reply to post by zorgon


I wouldnt say they have the law on their side rather that those 2 words "national security" hide anything which is illegal.
its so easy for them to tell the courts it is a case of national security and there is nothing that anyone can do.

i figured you knew what treason was, i was just saying that it didnt apply to this case. I was making the point more for people who didnt know and not directly at you.

With regards to the other networks that arent on the internet, if they are connected to a phone line and not secured, like in this case, then you will be able to connect to them like you dial on to the internet the only reason you wouldnt be able to connect is if it is a secured line.

reply to post by zorgon

Obfuscation? From Zorgon? Why, I can hardly believe my eyes.

Look at the focal point... if indeed they were aiming at a 'star' the beams would be almost parallel

Who said the focal point was supposed to be a 'star'? Oh, you did. Implied that someone claim it was anyway. Expert job!
The image shows the creation of an artificial guide star within the atmosphere. The lasers are not "aiming at a 'star'".

Here is one of those lasers... sometimes disguised as 'for astronomical studies'

As your source states, the use of adaptive optics to collimate the high energy lasers is being researched. Not very well "disguised" if it's reported in the New York Times.

What did Kirtland have to do with Gary Mckinnon again?

[edit on 9-9-2008 by Phage]

reply to post by zorgon


Hi Zorgan
Thanks for that. And Kudos to you for that superb response. I do appreciate that yourself and Mr Cliff Stone (ex soldier myself) have “pumped” many hours of research into these subjects. I am most familiar with Mr Stone and his story. God know I have lost count of the amount of time I’ve watched his testimony.

I in no way wanted to come across as condescending or disrespectful and fully respect your point of view. It just sounds like there is Zero compassion for this poor sod. But alas your over there and Gary and us are over here. I fully understand and sypatize with the nbeed also to protect security details. But as stated elese where I don’t thank Gary is working for the KGB. He might end up working for your intel and computer security systems as get out “come work for us” possibility ..Maybe not..

Regarding the triangular UFO’s mmmm ok I get what your saying but it still just looks like a fancy Stealthy conventional propulsion march 10 or not. Maybe Plasma Actuators have been around much longer than we’ve been led to believe. Maybe Plasma Actuators is actually old school tech that’s just being fed to us to keep our mouths open in awe, when all along they got stuff like you’d find on the Enterprise. People have seen and witnessed these things hovering, changing angles at crazy neck breaking speeds and basically defying gravity for a long time.

Maybe this is what the big problem is with Gary. They want him to fry and its wrong. It can be dressed up with all the legal political wriggling and manoeuvring a seasoned prosecution lawyer/team could throw at. But it’s wrong. Gary is obviously not a terrorist. Why should he fry like one. I mean Gary paedophile Glitter is probably hanging out with some greasy dirty individuals yet he is free to walk the streets of the UK (alas probably with a bodyguard/service bought at the right price) but he is free. But Gary has to do 70 because some of the equally corrupted US Agencies say so. Wrong Wrong Wrong.

I know you probably don’t agree as in the USA these lengthy/life sentences for misdemeanour offences are the norm… Joint anyone…no way pal. But in the UK ok are we soft because were a bit more relaxed. Jezus if you think were liberal in the UK take a plane to Amsterdam pal.

I have also seen Johns Lears website livingmoon donkeys ago when listening to coast to coast/youtube/google video etc, round same time I came across Marsanomalyproject website…John and Richard C Hoagland don’t exactly see eye to eye (his book is cool Dark Mission) but they get on sort of and defo agree we are being lied to regarding the big picture. It’s the big picture that solely interest me. And I am of the opinion that Gary shouldn’t Fry for exposing that. Talk about using a sledgehammer to crack a peanut!!! You would agree pal that stuff like this needs to be exposed don’t you. I mean the public should know, or should they, or should we just keep sending innocents to spill their blood in senseless wars when theres no need. Well ok maybe that’s strong, not as panic would ensue. But all this war for oil bizz is bleeding us and the planet dry. Just my thoughts on this one pal Lol

Ok he found stuff on one computor, agreed.. he hacked nearly 100. If one computer seemingly had info that makes Gary fry what else have they got up their sleeve. Like I say, its just smells too much of a rat.

On anther note does it not worry you that your government agencies can seemingly reach out and silence almost anybody on the planet. It kinda concerns me you know.. FOS and all that. Kudos to ya Zorgan. You have my respects and thanks for the posts.

Peace all
Kirky




[edit on 9-9-2008 by kirky]

reply to post by neo2012


It does seem like that m8..yes it does seem that way..shame what our so called Democratically elected "leaders" can get away with.. Sad sad Sad

Peace all

Kirky

[edit on 9-9-2008 by kirky]

Originally posted by neo2012
reply to post by zorgon

 

I wouldnt say they have the law on their side rather that those 2 words "national security" hide anything which is illegal.
its so easy for them to tell the courts it is a case of national security and there is nothing that anyone can do.

i figured you knew what treason was, i was just saying that it didnt apply to this case. I was making the point more for people who didnt know and not directly at you.

With regards to the other networks that arent on the internet, if they are connected to a phone line and not secured, like in this case, then you will be able to connect to them like you dial on to the internet the only reason you wouldnt be able to connect is if it is a secured line.

Mmmm agreed on the National Security issues sounds like something along the line of "diplomatic immunity in the interest of "national Security. A typical Politician/cia/Nsa person/statement would come out with.

Peace
Kirky

If he does know anything more than what he has said so far, and there are rumors on the web that he has an ace up his sleave, then I am sure he has used this to his advantage when dealing with the US government regarding his crimes, since he still has not been pardoned I would think that there are these possibilities:

1. The US government think he is bluffing
2. The US government does not care if he talks about more secret stuff as he probably wont be believed by the general public anyhow
3. Gary McKinnon does not have an ace up his sleave
4. Its all an secret project planned by the CIA and Gary McKinnon is MI5 or something and this is just a play before the world to show hackers what they can expect if they get caught
5. That this is all a dream and that no one really exists except me

Originally posted by Acharya
5. That this is all a dream and that no one really exists except me

I'll go with that one...

Its the most reasonable choice

in a way, I think NASA should thank Gary for hacking into their system.... it's better to have some cyber punk hack into it than a terrorist. It helped NASA password protect their systems to prevent a real threat in the future.

edit: if there really is a secret space program, they shouldn't put hin in jail.. Instead they should recruit him into the program for his skills. obviously he has useful skills at identifying security weaknesses. it would be a shame to see those skills go to waste by throwing him in jail.


[edit on 9-9-2008 by curiousbeliever]

reply to post by Acharya



Ha ha ha
Row row row you boat…
merrily merrily merrily merrily life is just a dream

LOL
Peace
kirky

Personally, I think his claims of evidence of UFOs is pure bunk. Born from a need to draw attention to his case which, after you strip away the sexiness of UFOs, is really rather mundane - and against the law.

Not that I think UFOs are bunk, but in this case? Utter BS.

I can not believe I am about to engage in speculation (otherwise known as a conspiracy theory): Perhaps the allegation was made as a sort of bluff, if you will. Basically, he didn't find anything of note but in the off chance there were something "they" didn't want you to know and if the computer systems he claims to have been in actually had some secret-squirrel UFO info......perhaps he could bluff his way into governmental inaction?

Or raise money for his defense by appearing on Coast to Coast.

Either, or.

[edit on 9-9-2008 by SlightlyAbovePar]

Originally posted by curiousbeliever
in a way, I think NASA should thank Gary for hacking into their system.... it's better to have some cyber punk hack into it than a terrorist. It helped NASA password protect their systems to prevent a real threat in the future.

Hi curiousbeliever

Don’t hold your breath. I thought about that one. I wonder if history will dictate that Mikinnon ends up working for Intel/Security in the future. Its a possibility thats nicer than 70 years trying not to drop the soap

Peace
Kirky


[edit on 9-9-2008 by kirky]

Originally posted by curiousbelieverInstead they should recruit him into the program for his skills. obviously he has useful skills at identifying security weaknesses.

Oh for crying out loud... SKILLS? What Skills? He simply used trial and error to find a computer that had no password... people do that all the time... I bet 80% of people on ATS don't have a password on their wireless connection let alone their computer, just like most people still have the default code of 1234 on their home security system

Now go and change it right now...

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar
Personally, I think his claims of evidence of UFOs is pure bunk.

He didn't find evidence of UFO's... he found a list of 'spaceship' names and the non terrestrial officers who serve on them

Now a while back in this thread I posted info on the plasma actuators from the AFRL... and you can follow the link to the actual military site...

But I want you ALL to realize just how close to the line this kind of research is...

Though a lot of info IS available free to the public from US military sites, that does not mean its free for the world... so because a site like ATS is viewed WORLD WIDE...

Consider this....


RETIRED UNIVERSITY OF TENNESSEE PROFESSOR CONVICTED OF ARMS EXPORT VIOLATIONS

Department of Justice

United States Attorney James R. Dedrick
Eastern District of Tennessee

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
September 3, 2008

(KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE)-On Wednesday, September 3, 2008, a federal jury convicted retired University of Tennessee professor Dr. J. Reece Roth, after a seven day trial, of conspiracy to violate the Arms Export Control Act together with fifteen separate illegal exports of military technical information relating to plasma technology designed to be deployed on the wings of drones operating as a weapons or surveillance systems. The Arms Export Control Act prohibits the export of defense-related materials, including the technical data, to a foreign national or a foreign nation. The illegal arms control exports by Dr. Roth related to technical data and information that was developed through a U.S. Air Force research and development contract to develop this advanced form of a drone. Dr. Roth was also convicted of one count of wire fraud relating to defrauding the University of Tennessee of the honest services by illegally exporting sensitive military information relating to this U.S. Air Force contract.

Dr. Roth was convicted of conspiring with Atmospheric Glow Technology, Inc., a Knoxville, Tennessee, technology company, with unlawfully exporting in 2005 and 2006 fifteen different "defense articles" to a citizen of the People's Republic of China in violation of the Arms Export Control Act. This law prohibits the export of defense-related materials, including the technical data, to a foreign national or a foreign nation. The illegal exports by Dr. Roth related to technical data and information that was developed through a U.S. Air Force research and development contract.

The maximum punishment for the conspiracy conviction is five (5) years imprisonment and a fine of $250,000. The maximum penalty for each of the Arms Export Control Act offenses is ten (10) years imprisonment, a criminal fine of $1,000,000, and a mandatory special assessment of $100 for each offense. Dr. Roth's sentencing has been set for January 7, 2009, at 1:30 p.m., in United States District Court in Knoxville.

"Today's guilty verdict should serve as a warning to anyone who knowingly discloses restricted U.S. military data to foreign nationals. The illegal export of such sensitive data represents a very real threat to our national security, particularly when we know that foreign governments are actively seeking this information for their military development," said Patrick Rowan, Acting Assistant Attorney General for National Security.

knoxville.fbi.gov...

The difference is merely a fine line on what is public and what is not...

Anyone who doesn't take this seriously is delusional

reply to post by zorgon


My mistake - I recall (could be completely wrong) him claiming on CTC that he found specific (he claimed) UFO information. As in where they come from, what kinds of ships, who knows, etc.