Biden: Israel should accept nuclear Iran

Originally posted by sirdcac
GUYS DO NOT BE STUPID!!!

We're stupid because we can understand what he means, rather than relying on others to tell us?

Iran has stated that it wants to wip out USA and Israel.

Can you provide these quotes?

They have every intetion to use it to for bombs.

Is that what they tell you on Fox News, or have you done your own research the rest of the US doesn't know about?

reply to post by sos37


It's only a threat if you want war. With war on your mind, anything small will sound like a threat. If I were to say that he wants an end to Zionism, you will perceive it as him wanting to nuke all of Israel, correct?

The quote is simply stated that the Imam he's referring to wants no more future events involving Zionists committing murder/terrorism.

You can argue that the only way to stop a regime is by killing them, but that's the war mentality again. Take the passive road. Why not stop funding them? Why not stop supporting them and giving them political power? Wouldn't these be much more effective that going in there with tanks and planes and expecting rainbows after everyone is dead?

Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
I will not vote for a candidate that doesn't support Israel 110%.

So you want a candidate that holds more allegiance to another country than the US itself?

I think the word for that kind of candidate you're looking for is "treasonous."

reply to post by Thyhorrorcosmic

isreal wouldnt live with a nuclear iraq, they bombed the 'electric energy' generating reactor there, which was obviously a weapons development lab...

only recently did 550 metric tons of yellowcake uranium (wmd, anyone? nah...) finally found their way out if iraq to be processed in canada...

like iran, iraq had plenty of oil to generate all the cheap watts they'd ever need, so why the big push for nuclear energy?

was saddam so concerned about the environment, he just wanted to be more 'green'?

and ahmenijad has now seen the light, too? suddenly a real need for nuclear power in iran?

a barrel of oil costs them about a single u.s. dollar, whats a barrel trading for today?

reply to post by DJMessiah


just for starters:

Iran's new president has repeated a remark from a former ayatollah that Israel should be "wiped out from the map,"

Ahmadinejad is quoted as saying, "Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury."

more!:

www.cnn.com...

Iran leader defends Israel remark

Shouting "Death to Israel, death to the Zionists", the protesters dragged Israeli flags along the ground and then set them on fire.

Joining the protest, Mr Ahmadinejad said: "My words were the Iranian nation's words.

news.bbc.co.uk...

care for more?

Originally posted by feydrautha
isreal wouldnt live with a nuclear iraq, they bombed the 'electric energy' generating reactor there, which was obviously a weapons development lab...

only recently did 550 metric tons of yellowcake uranium (wmd, anyone? nah...) finally found their way out if iraq to be processed in canada...

like iran, iraq had plenty of oil to generate all the cheap watts they'd ever need, so why the big push for nuclear energy?

was saddam so concerned about the environment, he just wanted to be more 'green'?

and ahmenijad has now seen the light, too? suddenly a real need for nuclear power in iran?

a barrel of oil costs them about a single u.s. dollar, whats a barrel trading for today?

Regardless of the NEED they may or may not have to pursue nuclear energy, they certainly have the RIGHT to do so. Suspect all you want, but there is no proof they want to weaponize, and I'm not going to support any preemptive strikes. The claim that they ARE going to use the tech to build nuclear weapons, and that they ARE going to use said hypothetical weapons does not constitute the proof necessary to act against Iran. It's hype to get potential public backing for a war that the US cannot support.

reply to post by '___'eviant


so, you think they're kidding around about destroying israel?

like, maybe they're just a bunch of fun-lovin' pranksters?

i'm certain there are people out there to whom "a mushroom cloud where tel-aviv once stood" would still not be enough proof (israel did it to themselves! false flag! false flag!)

edit: my sloppy grammar

[edit on 2-9-2008 by feydrautha]

There is a nuclear fuel that is impossible to make into weapons grade material that the Iranians will not agree to using and be monitored. They have no excuses if they just want power plants. Anybody willing to do the easy research can find these facts out for themselves. Other nations are using this material this very day and there is zero danger of them making weapons. Anyone defending Iran's right to nuclear power either doesn't know the facts or wants them to have nuclear weapons plain and simple.

For those who are interested, HERE is the NIE that BUsh refused to believe on the grounds that it didn't say what he wanted it to.

It states quite clearly that Iran abandoned its weapons programme in 2003.

There is also the fact that many ignore, that Russia is supplying the fuel for Iranian reactors on condition that all spent fuel is returned.

Of course this doesn't mean there won't be some creative accounting.

I think it's time for people to stop actually listening to shrub, cheney and israel - they want war because they and their friends make vast amounts of money from it - and to look at the facts.

A good start would be to read the NIE posted here.

score another one for mr."i am a zionist", he's not even elected yet but he makes his own policy. i think they might lose a few jewish votes.

Originally posted by Thyhorrorcosmic
Iran hasn't done anything I don't know why Israel hates them so much. Yeah they are seeking nuclear technology but look at israel they have nukes, the united states has nukes, why should we be going around the world telling who can have stuff and who can not? it sickens me, israel does need to be wiped off the map.

Well with over 4,000 centrifuges running night and day enriching
uranium, you might see israel nuked as you desire.

Just keep in mind the VERY high price Iran will pay for such an act.

Israel alone has enough nukes to flatten every major city in the
middle east, 60 - 80 are current estimates.

Iran is buying advanced anti-air from russia, but it all relies on radar,
and Israel has radar homing missiles, fire enough and one is going
to get thru and take out the radar.

Once no Iranian radars are running look for a test run to make
sure the radars are down, then look for total annihilation.

I don't support either side, but I do believe this or georgia
or a derivative there of will be the catalyst for WW3, and
then a lot of ppl are going to die.

Nothing can stop the MIRV warheads once they have left the
missiles nose cone and start their independent free falls to earth.

One nuclear boomer submarine, 24 missiles, 8 warheads each,
192 cities gone.

The Russians are ready for this

Most ppl think their basement is good enough to save them
from the fallout, they will be dead wrong.

reply to post by feydrautha


How many more times do we have to post this?! OK. One more time ...

Source

"Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian". Instead, "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."

Please read the WHOLE section to understand the mis-translation ... not only on the Western interpretation, but also the mis-translation of Ahmadinejad's statement on Iran's behalf.

My point: Don't believe everything you're told.

[edit on 2-9-2008 by tyranny22]

You're wasting your breath, the firebreathing armchair toughguy pro-war crowd is not interested in pesky facts, only in overcompensating for being "shortchanged" by nature

You can correct the translation all day long, and they'll still trot out the same old mangled quote...

After a decade of arguing with these far right types, I can tell you that they don't really care what the facts are - just what makes a good argument for "their side" - you are dealing with meat robots, essentially...

Originally posted by tyranny22

How many more times do we have to post this?! OK. One more time ...

Source

"Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to 'wipe Israel off the map' because no such idiom exists in Persian". Instead, "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse."

Please read the WHOLE section to understand the mis-translation ... not only on the Western interpretation, but also the mis-translation of Ahmadinejad's statement on Iran's behalf.

My point: Don't believe everything you're told.

and believe less if its on wikipedia.

wikipedia has been compromised, and continues to be compromised, by a certain bias when it comes to representing islam in the news and history.

the bbc and cnn are not so easily compromised, as the casual visitor is unable to alter their articles as they please.

unlike wikipedia.

his quote has been confirmed by many sources, even by the big guy himself.

are you suggesting that wikipedia is a more sound news source than bbc and cnn?

i'd believe the onion before wikipedia.

Israel Bombs Anti-Semitism Out Of Lebanon

Hezbollah declared that the mass bombing of their homeland gave them new respect for Israel as "a legitimate power and a beacon of democracy."

www.theonion.com...

Originally posted by feydrautha
i'm certain there are people out there to whom "a mushroom cloud where tel-aviv once stood" would still not be enough proof (israel did it to themselves! false flag! false flag!)
[edit on 2-9-2008 by feydrautha]

LMAO!!! wow... this is really great! it's amazing how everyone loves their freedom to criticize their governments or bash other governments(ESPECIALLY Israel! ), and yet they don't have a problem giving it all away in the near future...

it seems to me that the NWO will most likely be Islam. the only true way to get the masses to have the same views as you is through force. christians did it for centuries, but they didn't have the right weapon to dominate the world...

welcome to the atomic age!!!(where the sky's the limit! ) Pakistan might have the bomb, but they're too busy dealing with India and also the USA has an eye on them. However, if Iran has the bomb, it's a whole different ball game. Unlike other nuclear countries, Iran is definitely not mature about it. you can't just threaten other countries(no matter how you want to rephrase the quotes, it's still a threat) and expect the world to bend over for you to develop atomic weapons, because you obviously have intentions to actually use them offensively.

now to those westerners who just love nothing better than to bash israel, i hope you guys will be extremely happy when Israel falls and all of you are under sharia law. if you guys think that muslim extremists will be satisfied with Israel gone, then you're out of your minds. they're repopulating europe and they reproduce more than twice as fast as westerners. it's only a matter of time before they are the majority and in control.

for many of you who don't realize, israel is the tip of the sword for the western world. there's reason why they have a huge military budget and a military far more superior than most western countries. that's because Israel is Islam's #1 target. Israel has to deal with constant attacks every day, while the rest of the western world can enjoy life. well, for now at least...

Iran having the bomb will only strengthen Islam's position. now it comes down to the question for westerners, do you want to live with the freedom to be who you are or do you want to be muslim? please note that you guys might not feel the effects now, but i guarantee you that your children will. it's a tough question, i know. you have to decide what's more valuable to you, freedom/liberty or the Quran?

[edit on 2-9-2008 by DJAghetto]

Originally posted by feydrautha
are you suggesting that wikipedia is a more sound news source than bbc and cnn?

Not for news, but for accuracy of content.

Wikipedia has very little motivation to influence people's opinions unlike CNN or BBC.

Are you suggesting that an information source that is controlled by one person (or group) would be more accurate than an Open Source that can be continually edited by EVERYONE ... thus, not allowing only ONE person or group to have its say?!

If those that translated the quote to say: "Wipe off the map" thinks they are right ... have them go change it.

I'd much rather let people have input who're expert in a certain field, rather than your average journalist who is told what he can and can't write about in a certain publication be the "expert".

Don't forget about all those news agencies, CNN and BBC being two of which, that convinced nearly the entire world that Iraq was hiding WMDs.

More sound? Hardly. More propaganda ... most definitely.

reply to post by feydrautha


Can you provide his actual quote? I'm not talking about the mistranslated English, like the "wipe off the map quote," but his actual Farsi speech. If not, then how do you know that this isn't another media lie?

I would bet that Israel might be ok with Iran having peaceful Nuclear Technology if;
1) Iran weren't a terrorist nation and a terrorist supporter
2)if the International Atomic Agency could verify questionable sites with unlimited access
3)if Iran wasn't continually bosting about it's latest inrichment successes
4)if the President of Iran didn't hold rallies with legions of supporters chanting "death to Israel" "death to America and threatening to wipe them off the face of the "map" "earth" "land" etc. bla bla bla.

I found an article here dated 2005, it's a flash back for those who still think the current president of Iran was just simply mistated.

A sample from BBC News news.bbc.co.uk...;

Iran leader defends Israel remark

Protesters in Tehran burned Israeli flags
Iran's president has defended his widely criticised call for Israel to be "wiped off the map".
Attending an anti-Israel rally in Tehran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said his remarks were "just" - and the criticism did not "have any validity".

His initial comment provoked anger from many governments, and prompted Israel to demand Iran's expulsion from the UN.

Egypt said they showed "the weakness of the Iranian government". A Palestinian official also rejected the remarks.

Defiant rally

Tens of thousands of Iranians took part in the rally in Tehran which Iran organises every year on the last Friday of the fasting month of Ramadan to show solidarity with the Palestinian struggle.

Shouting "Death to Israel, death to the Zionists", the protesters dragged Israeli flags along the ground and then set them on fire.

Palestinians recognise the right of the state of Israel to exist and I reject his comments

Saeb Erekat
Chief Palestinian negotiator

Iran comments: Your views

Many carried posters and placards sporting the slogan "Israel should be wiped off the map".

Joining the protest, Mr Ahmadinejad said: "My words were the Iranian nation's words.

"Westerners are free to comment, but their reactions are invalid," Mr Ahmadinejad told the official Irna news agency.

Some demonstrators wore white shrouds in a symbolic gesture expressing readiness to die for their cause.

"Ahmadinejad talks on behalf of all Iranians. We are ready to die for Palestine," Mohammad Mirzayi, a member of a volunteer Shia militia group, told the Reuters news agency.

'Inexperience'

While most Muslim and Arab capitals have remained silent on the president's remarks, a few have spoken out - including Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erekat.

"Palestinians recognise the right of the state of Israel to exist and I reject his comments," he told the BBC News website.

"What we need to be talking about is adding the state of Palestine to the map and not wiping Israel from the map," he said.


Tehran says the West's reaction is linked to its nuclear plans

Egypt, which has signed a peace treaty with Israel, also rejected the Iranian line.

"In principle, we are way beyond this type of political rhetoric that shows the weakness of the Iranian government," said an official at the Egyptian embassy in London.

Turkey's prime minister called on the Iranian president "to display political moderation".

Our world affairs correspondent Paul Reynolds says that the UK Foreign Office does not regard President Ahmadinejad's statement on Israel as a new policy but more as a sign of his inexperience and the very local focus of his government.

UK officials suspect that he has held such views for years and that what is happening is that ideologues like him are now in power and are having their views exposed, he adds.

While there is no sense that Iran is backing down, there are Iranians who are concerned that their country could become increasingly isolated under this new ultra-conservative government, reports the BBC Frances Harrison in Tehran.

"death to Israel" and "death to America" have become popular slogans, you will find many videos and pictures with these popular phrases being held by supporters in Iran holding banners and chantings with these exact phrases.
In Iran there is even an national holiday called "Death to America" day.

reply to post by feydrautha


OK, how about The Guardian newspaper?

Is that more of a reliable source for you?

A quick google revealed thousands of publications, which ran the TRUE story - are all of them biassed?

Here's another, which includes the original speech in farsi:

www.informationclearinghouse.info...