Biden: Israel should accept nuclear Iran

Originally posted by tyranny22

Originally posted by feydrautha
are you suggesting that wikipedia is a more sound news source than bbc and cnn?

Not for news, but for accuracy of content.

i can log onto wikipedia right now and change that to anything i want to, and so can anyone else, accuracy of content, indeed. the bbc has very high standards, and cannot be compared to wikipedia in any way other than superior.

Wikipedia has very little motivation to influence people's opinions unlike CNN or BBC.

but the people who visit it do. the islam entries have changed in dramatic ways, and now inaccurately reflect the nature of islam, for instance, the practice is called taqiyya, and easily achieved on wikipedia, the worlds most inaccurate source for info

Are you suggesting that an information source that is controlled by one person (or group) would be more accurate than an Open Source that can be continually edited by EVERYONE ... thus, not allowing only ONE person or group to have its say?!

hmmm... let see... professional news gatherers with solid integrity vs. the average schmoe with an agenda... you add it up

If those that translated the quote to say: "Wipe off the map" thinks they are right ... have them go change it.

I'd much rather let people have input who're expert in a certain field, rather than your average journalist who is told what he can and can't write about in a certain publication be the "expert".

"experts"? these experts now account for the biased, agenda driven falsehoods entered into the wikipedia regularly... well done.

Don't forget about all those news agencies, CNN and BBC being two of which, that convinced nearly the entire world that Iraq was hiding WMDs.

More sound? Hardly. More propaganda ... most definitely.

they only reported what they had, and 550 metric tons of yellowcake uranium sounds like a good start for wmd's to me

disagree?

Originally posted by hannamtong
America has made some human rights progress in the last century, Iran and many muslim countries have made very little, your blind hate is very regressive, try being more progressive.

Blind hate? Could you please reference what you based this "blind hate" comment on? Do you maybe have me confused with someone else?

Anyway, I find it very hypocritical of you to make such a reference, whether to me - or to whomever it's directed, when you're supporting aggressive action against Iran for trying to provide a better life for it's people.

It sounds as if you believe the people of Iran are a bunch of freedom hating terrorist living in sand tents and caves. This idea is extremely ignorant. The people of Iran live lives much like people in the united states. They go skiing. The go bowling. They enjoy fishing in their lakes. And many of them love America. To think that they are so different from you or I is just ridiculous:

L.A. Times

Iranian Americans make up one-fifth of Beverly Hills' population and account for about 40% of students in the Beverly Hills public schools.

Originally posted by DJMessiah
reply to post by feydrautha

 

Can you provide his actual quote? I'm not talking about the mistranslated English, like the "wipe off the map quote," but his actual Farsi speech. If not, then how do you know that this isn't another media lie?

bbc and cnn have retracted errors before, and they will continue to do so. they have not retracted anything offered up on this subject.

if you have solid documentation that disputes their assertion, here would be a good place to present it.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by feydrautha

 

OK, how about The Guardian newspaper?

Is that more of a reliable source for you?

its entertaining to see the lengths some will go to, to pretend the intentions of iran are something other than what they truly are...

lets consider the authors translation "the regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time" as more accurate than "israel must be wiped off the map" then.

i'd have to say the "accurate" translation is even more atrocious than the supposed mistranslation.

one suggests that israel must be destroyed in its present state

the other, "more accurate" one states not only this, but the existence of israel must be removed from history as well!

so, i'm willing to accept that interpretation... it is even more insidious than the widely regarded one...

tell us how iran means israel no harm, again?

how they would not develop and use nukes to remove israel from existence?

do tell!

According to this thread the looney tunes leader of Iran changed what he said at least five times, none of which involved anything bad about Israel. I always see threads on ATS talking about "infiltrators" posting and laughed...now I am really wondering if this is true and iran has found this site.

reply to post by feydrautha


Are you joking?! I very much disagree. Please do some research.

Joe Wilson (diplomat Bush sent to Niger) refutes Bush's claim that Saddam sought yellowcake from Niger. Afterwards he was fired and his credibility was questioned. So, Joe Wilson was credible enough to send to Niger to investigate claims of yellowcake being sought, yet when he reported otherwise - all of a sudden he's not credible?!

It's difficult to find one news agency that supports anything other than Bush's claims. Though, it's been proven that all the yellowcake that's been found was from at least 1991.

Your news agencies are jokes.

Originally posted by tyranny22
reply to post by Ex_MislTech

 

Iran treats it's citizens much in the same manner as the U.S. has treated it's citizens. There's always going to be extreme examples that can be referenced on both sides.

No doubt, I'm sure someone will list the non-acceptance of gay persons as a mark against Iran, however, I think that's very minor in regards to the legalized lynchings that the U.S. allowed no more than a half century ago here in America.

Certainly, the comfort of living differs greatly in Iran than in the U.S., but when the Western world increases this gap by creating sanctions, or lobbying against nuclear energy development, how can anything else be expected? It's hypocritical, to say the least.

absolute fantasy! what kind of twisted reality must one immerse themselves in to be so self deluded, yet still manage to function in a society?

we have homosexuals in our face everywhere, in the states, they make up about 3% of our population, but nearly 75% of our pop culture... america loves catty queens!

how about an extreme example, on the us side?

when was the last time we stoned someone who might have thought about having an affair?

or looked the other way when a father kills his daughter for maybe not being muslim enough?

i cant wait for this....

reply to post by feydrautha


I don't support these kinds of act, but I'm certainly not going to bomb the hell out of them and tell them that they can't.

They're human beings and they can make their own choices. Who told you that you should make those choices for them?

reply to post by tyranny22


of course you disagree... no confusing you with the facts, when your mind is already made up, eh?

no news sources?

Associated Press: The removal of 550 metric tons of "yellowcake" — the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment — was a significant step toward closing the books on Saddam's nuclear legacy.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq's government has removed 550 tonnes of natural uranium left over from Saddam Hussein's era and sold it to a Canadian company, government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said.

uk.reuters.com...

care for more? there are no nuclear power plants in iraq, the one they claimed to have, was a weapons development facility.

Originally posted by budski

Originally posted by 4x4fun
I would bet that Israel might be ok with Iran having peaceful Nuclear Technology if;
1) Iran weren't a terrorist nation and a terrorist supporter

Do you know how many terrorist organisations the US has supported over the years?

Just because the US calls Iran a terrorist state, doesn't mean it's true.

The US is also sponsoring terror groups inside Iran, with the goal of overthrowing the democratically elected government,much the same as they did in 1953, before they installed their puppet, The Shah.

Did you know that the CIA trained and backed SAVAK secret police falsely arrested, tortured and murdered hundreds of thousands of people during the puppet Shah's reign?

Did you know that the UK and US installed the puppet shah because they wanted control of the oil in Iran, and that the current situation came about because after the islamic revolution the oil industry in Iran was nationalised?

Perhaps if the west kept its collective nose out, there wouldn't be so much trouble in the region.

The UK started it, the US has carried it on.

This is pretty spot on, except I would say that Iran is not very friendly and we should definitely tread with caution. The Middle East is mostly screwed up because of the UK...there is no doubt about that.

Originally posted by tyranny22
reply to post by feydrautha

 

I don't support these kinds of act, but I'm certainly not going to bomb the hell out of them and tell them that they can't.

They're human beings and they can make their own choices. Who told you that you should make those choices for them?

thats not the reason anyone would bomb them, please stay on track... no one suggested as much at all, ever.

the threat of developing offensive nukes to destroy allied countries is not a bad reason, really, to destroy those facilities...

Originally posted by yellowcard

This is pretty spot on, except I would say that Iran is not very friendly and we should definitely tread with caution. The Middle East is mostly screwed up because of the UK...there is no doubt about that.

the uk? really? erm, how so...

it would of course, have nothing to do with the death cult; islam, would it?

read the koran and hadith, and then connect the dots...

"ahh! so thats why... now i see!"

knowledge is power.

reply to post by feydrautha


Did you even read the article?

From the exact same article

Tuwaitha and an adjacent research facility were well known for decades as the centerpiece of Saddam's nuclear efforts.

Israeli warplanes bombed a reactor project at the site in 1981. Later, U.N. inspectors documented and safeguarded the yellowcake, which had been stored in aging drums and containers since before the 1991 Gulf War. There was no evidence of any yellowcake dating from after 1991, the official said.

We knew where it was when we left Iraq in 1991. Why, if it were such a threat, would we leave it in the hands of Saddam?

I'll go ahead and answer that for you:

Because Saddam had no means by which to enrich this yellowcake. And we knew it.

First of all, why would Saddam seek yellowcake from a foreign country when he was sitting on a stockpile of it? And second why would it be such a threat if Saddam were were to aquire yellowcake from Niger if we knew he had no means to enrich?

I'll tell you why: Propaganda.

Bush counted on the ignorance of the American people to get behind the plan to overthrow an elected President. He used the media that you support so much to perpetrate this plan. If it hadn't been for independent news sources on the internet, the world might still be ignorant to these facts. Once the story broke on independent news, the mainstream had no other choice but to follow suit, or else they would loose all credibility. That's why you see those facts included in the article today.

And that's why I regard your coveted news sources as nothing but "Johnny Come-Lately" War Machine propagators.

[edit on 3-9-2008 by tyranny22]

reply to post by feydrautha


OK, after making my points above ... tell me - regarding this post - does Iran REALLY want to develop nuclear weapons? Or are we just believing what the war machine wants us to? Who really knows?

In all honesty: Hind sight is 20/20. There's no real way to know whether or not Iran plans to develop nuclear weapons. We've sat on our asses for years and let North Korea slap us in the face by detonating a nuclear weapon. India has nukes. Pakistan has nukes.

We've all been lead to believe Iran is a "terrorist state." Maybe they are. Maybe they're not. But, don't get upset when I don't swallow the second round of war propaganda hook, line and sinker from the same sources that fed it to me the first round.

All I know is that this preemptive aggression is one of the reasons (along with having military bases on foreign soil) we were attacked on 9/11 and that's the REAL reason we're in this "war on terror" in the first place.

It's a continual cycle ... and isn't that just great for those that are profiting from this war.

Originally posted by tyranny22

Originally posted by hannamtong
America has made some human rights progress in the last century, Iran and many muslim countries have made very little, your blind hate is very regressive, try being more progressive.

Blind hate? Could you please reference what you based this "blind hate" comment on? Do you maybe have me confused with someone else?

Anyway, I find it very hypocritical of you to make such a reference, whether to me - or to whomever it's directed, when you're supporting aggressive action against Iran for trying to provide a better life for it's people.

It sounds as if you believe the people of Iran are a bunch of freedom hating terrorist living in sand tents and caves. This idea is extremely ignorant. The people of Iran live lives much like people in the united states. They go skiing. The go bowling. They enjoy fishing in their lakes. And many of them love America. To think that they are so different from you or I is just ridiculous:

L.A. Times

Iranian Americans make up one-fifth of Beverly Hills' population and account for about 40% of students in the Beverly Hills public schools.

Your right the majority of Iranians are similar to the West, but the exert of the LA Times article fails to mention that many of these Iranians were forced out of Iran by the mullahs and current government. The current regime in Iran are very much unlike us in the West, they are religious fanatics, even any Iranian abroad will tell you this.

Force isn't the way to solve this issue but the regime there must go. Don't be naive enough to believe their promise of a peaceful nuclear program. Ask their own citizens just how peaceful their government are!

Why is everyone so worried about nuclear bombs!! The aliens will not let it happen! Be calm my friends! It will not happen. They have destroyed bombs before in Montana. This was shown in a film on Larry King. Anyone see it? There were several retired military guys on the show, a couple of months ago. Interesting stuff, made me calm down.

reply to post by theblunttruth


How many countries have nuclear weapons? OK. Now, how many countries have had an un-peaceful nuclear weapons program?

One: The United States.

This holier-than-thou preemptive mentality has to end sometime.

Those who said that Obama/Biden lost or wouldnt vote for them because of this issue are lying to themselves. Its been pretty clear from the beginning that Obama wants to open dialog and diplomacy with Iran, end the aggressive military posture of the USA and heal Americas image around the world.

And you dont do that by bomb bomb bombing Iran.

Because we either live with a nuclear Iran or we go to war, because they arent stopping their nuclear program which they are allowed to under international law.
Iran is a sovereign country and a power in the region, I doubt we will be able to tell them what to do. We should respect that just like you dont want the french to tell you what to research and develop.

They may want nukes in the long run, I would too if I were them. With the USA surrounding Iran in the region. Iranians are peace loving people. They never invaded anyone or used a nuke like we did, did they???
They never said they wanted to wipe Israel off the map (source www.informationclearinghouse.info...).
Many of you have already forgotten the Iraq fiasco, the lies and deceiption that lead to the war. I clearly remember the same rethoric from those who accept any media/govt propaganda as truth. It is happening again and they still dont get it.

Wake up.


Obama/Biden believe that they can start to build trust, hope and peace at home and abroad. Violence and hatred only brings more of the same. The world is a place big enough for all of us to live in Peace.

reply to post by feydrautha


Perhaps you'd like to also address the complete speach which I posted so that the qoute could also be taken in context, rather than cherrypicking the parts that suit you.

For the 2nd time in this thread alone, you can find it here

It's written by Arash Norouzi, an artist and co-founder of the Mossadegh Project who wrote:

Iran's President has written two rather philosophical letters to America. In his first letter, he pointed out that "History shows us that oppressive and cruel governments do not survive". With this statement, Ahmadinejad has also projected the outcome of his own backwards regime, which will likewise "vanish from the page of time."

source

So as can be seen, he's hardly an Iran apologist.

Info on the Mossadegh Project
Which may give you some information about WHY Iran is so anti-western.

A biog about Mohammed Mossadegh can be found here

And information on the UK and US backed against a democratically elected leader can be found here

Are you starting to see the problem yet?
We started it - that is the problem.

Left alone by us, they would have no problems with us.