Why was jesus crucified?

Originally posted by Nohup

All I can do is suggest that you read Gospel of Mark, Chapter 3, and the Gospel of Luke, Chapter 11, in particular. When accused of using the demon Be'elzebub to cast out other demons, Jesus essentially responds, "So what if I am? I'm using this demon to 'divide and conquer' the power of Satan." It did not go over very well with some people.

It's all right there. Unless you have some sort of problem with the plain word of the Gospels.

Wow what a load of lies you just posted! In Mark 3 & Luke 11 Jesus tells a parable to prove how utterly ridiculous the accusation was...

So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: "How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his house.

What part of "How can Satan drive out Satan" did you not understand?

Unless you have some sort of problem with basic reading comprehension. I don't see how any reasonable person could possible infer he admitted to using a demon. He refuted the idea by showing how utterly STUPID it was to suggest it.

deny ignorance

The biggest problems with "Christians" today are their inability to make things as simple as the Lord intended for it to be: It's like this: We all have a purpose in this life...Jesus' purpose, as he clearly stated, was to complete a task that God wanted HIM to do for us...Save us from ourselves and from HELL. Humans have a problem with God: It is separation from HIM. We started it with disobedience in Eden, (not HIM) but HE "finished" it when Jesus died on the cross. Nobody "killed" HIM...(He is The Lord!) He could've called down an army from Heaven to get Him out of that mess! But He didn't! He stretched out His arms, said "I love you this much"! GOD held them still for humans to hammer nails through HIS hands after beating him beyond recognition for something that HE did not even do! He WILLINGLY died for us because GOD required a perfect sacrifice, and there weren't any. Humankind sucks! There isn't any easy way for me to help you understand. Believe it or not, it is a gift to you and me and anyone who wants it, to make sure that our last breath here is assured to be our first breath in heaven. It is a gift for you either to accept, say "thank you" , and unwrap to see how it works, or leave it there! It isn't complicated! You can't see the wind, but you know it's there because you can see the trees blowing! You trust, that when you get in an elevator, and the doors close, that it will get you to where ever you want to arrive safely...The message is that HE is there, like a gift, waiting for you to accept HIM, unwrap HIM, and see where HE takes you...All you have to do is ask. Ask Him to reveal Himself to you...If you want it bad enough, He will...you just have to ask...Eternity is an awefully long time to spend somewhere, either in Heaven or in Hell...We take great pains to ensure a vacation is planned perfectly, and that is only for a week or two...why wouldn't you want to ensure that your eternity is secure in a place so wonderful, that humankind can not even imagine! IF you were to die today, are you sure where you would spend eternity? If you're not sure, ask HIM!

reply to post by 4x4fun


Some interesting comments there. In light of you checking out judaism, I have some comments.

The house of israel and the house of judah.

they are separate.

Separate kings were over each house.

When God in prophecy speaks to the house of israel he does not refer to the jews. And when God refers to judah it is distinct from the house of israel.

Every intelligent jew will admit that the ten tribes are not among their people, and wherever they are, they have a descendant of the house of david reigning over them!

The ten tribes were never jews.

The house of judah were and still are, Levi and Judah.

The house of israel, will become a great multitude. There are not and never has been a great multitude of jews, so they are not the same.


Israelites only became hebrews, after the dispersion, after crossing the river. The name hebrew is a reference to the river they crossed.
Jews are not hebrews, even tho they use the hebrew language.

Just like caucasians is a reference to our ancestors who crossed through the Caucasus mountains.

So, jews are not true israelites and true israelites are not jews. Like we are NOT true americans, but we know who is! Those who were placed on reservations.


House of israel, ten tribes, one king. [ not jewish ]

house of judah, two tribes, one king. [ jews ]

Be sure of what you are getting yourself into. I consider understanding this distinction betwen the jews and true israel to be at the heart of the issue.


I hope you find this helpful on your journey;

www5.ocn.ne.jp...

en.wikipedia.org...

ucoy.org...

www.moseshand.com...

Originally posted by Nohup

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Ummm, claiming Jesus's miracles were "demon-aided" is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. At this point I'd encourage you to seek forgiveness for claiming such.

All I can do is suggest that you read Gospel of Mark, Chapter 3, and the Gospel of Luke, Chapter 11, in particular. When accused of using the demon Be'elzebub to cast out other demons, Jesus essentially responds, "So what if I am? I'm using this demon to 'divide and conquer' the power of Satan." It did not go over very well with some people.

It's all right there. Unless you have some sort of problem with the plain word of the Gospels.

ABSOLUTELY NOT, you are perverting scriptures:

Mark 3:23-30

And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan?

24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.

25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.

27 No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.

28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

Plain English, Jesus is telling them: "If I am possessed by a devil how in the heck am I casting out a devil? A divided house cannot stand. All sins can and will be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will NOT be forgiven." And he told them this "because they said, 'He hath an unclean spirit'".

Horrendous mis-translation or reading comprehension you use bro. Let's look at Luke as well:

Luke 11:17-20:

17 But he, knowing their thoughts, said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and a house divided against a house falleth.

18 If Satan also be divided against himself, how shall his kingdom stand? because ye say that I cast out devils through Beelzebub.

19 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? therefore shall they be your judges.

20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

You're 100% wrong.

[edit on 27-8-2008 by NOTurTypical]

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Must agree with your rendering of the text - Yeshua is making the point that Satan does not fight against himself since satan "comes only to kill steal and destroy"....so its is illogical for the Pharisees to accuse Him of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub...

One other thing I want to mention in here that so often gets distorted - There is no death in G-d...so when people say "g-d ave me this or that illness" or "G-d took my child or my mother" or what have you...it is giving place to untruth - G-d has no death to give us....satan is the true arbiter of pain in this world - Yeshua is the bringer of life abundant...that is why Paul exhorts us to stand in faith and call those things that are not as if they were...this could be a long conversation so I will stop here for the moment...don't want to fly too far off topic... but might make an interesting discussion for another thread..

reply to post by Bigwhammy


i understand your reasoning; but the way it came off, just seemed a bit "insensitive" to me. I guess the only thing i can say is "it's not what you say, it's how you say it."? Perhaps i'm too delicate when it comes to the manner in which things are conveyed. :-\

Originally posted by realshanti
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Must agree with your rendering of the text - Yeshua is making the point that Satan does not fight against himself since satan "comes only to kill steal and destroy"....so its is illogical for the Pharisees to accuse Him of casting out demons by the power of Beelzebub...

One other thing I want to mention in here that so often gets distorted - There is no death in G-d...so when people say "g-d ave me this or that illness" or "G-d took my child or my mother" or what have you...it is giving place to untruth - G-d has no death to give us....satan is the true arbiter of pain in this world - Yeshua is the bringer of life abundant...that is why Paul exhorts us to stand in faith and call those things that are not as if they were...this could be a long conversation so I will stop here for the moment...don't want to fly too far off topic...

but might make an interesting discussion for another thread..

You're 100% correct, also, it is okay to type, or say "God" when you are telling others about Him. It's not allowed to use His name or refer to Him in a profane, vain, or careless manner.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
it is okay to type, or say "God" when you are telling others about Him

says who? Because i know a lot of people that would disagree with you.

Originally posted by JPhish

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
it is okay to type, or say "God" when you are telling others about Him

says who? Because i know a lot of people that would disagree with you.

Because "God" isn't his name. It's closest to YHWH. "God" is one of the many names we have for God the Father.

Secondly, we aren't told to never use His name, we are told to never use his name in vain. Meaning it's permissible to talk about God, or to tell others about God. He forbids us from using his name a s a curse word, or careless word.

He never says in the Bible that we cannot say "God" when talking about Him, it says not to use His name "in vain."

"
Main Entry:
vain Listen to the pronunciation of vain
Pronunciation:
\ˈvān\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle English, from Anglo-French, empty, futile, from Latin vanus — more at wane
Date:
14th century

1: having no real value : idle, worthless
2: marked by futility or ineffectualness : unsuccessful, useless
3archaic : foolish, silly
4: having or showing undue or excessive pride in one's appearance or achievements : conceited"

reply to post by NOTurTypical


i know this . . . but i still know people that would disagree with you. So then it comes down to believing that you are right, and they are wrong.

Originally posted by Michael Pait
Do you think he is in eternal damnation and do you think that was the intent of the people that crucified him. or do you think his soul is safe in heaven. i was wondering because all the heavy metals dipict jesus as some dark figure.

I can see that you've never read or understood the Bible, that's too bad.


The WHY is,

Because it was written, it is part of Gods' plan for the redemption of our sins, due to the fall in the garden during the first earth age!

Jesus, Yeshuah, sits at the right hand of the Father. He is not in eternal damnation.


Don't try to understand what happened to Him, based on some rock n rollers. Surely you must want to be deceived! Is this your joke thread?



If you are sincere, you may pick up the Letter [ the Bible ] that He wrote for you and start reading it. If you really want to understand, you can pray for understanding, provided you are sincere. You can always ask anyone here for help too.

reply to post by JPhish


" i know this . . . but i still know people that would disagree with you. So then it comes down to believing that you are right, and they are wrong. "

Sorry to barge in here, but we have a Letter, AKA the Bible, with the Law written in it, for how we are to behave which are in addition to the Ten Commandments, which also say it.

These "opinions" you mention, have no substance to them.

Why give them any credit at all?

[edit on 2-9-2008 by toasted]

[edit on 2-9-2008 by toasted]

reply to post by toasted


it has nothing to do with my opinion, others or even your own; it has to do with respecting other peoples' cultures and being tolerant of them and their beliefs.

Originally posted by JPhish
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

i know this . . . but i still know people that would disagree with you. So then it comes down to believing that you are right, and they are wrong.

I can prove I'm right though.

All throughout the Bible you read "God" or "Yahweh" or "Jehovah", or "Jesus".

Not, "G-d", or "Y-h", or "J-h", or "J-s".

If the uber Holy and righteous men who wrote the Bible, Moses, Isaiah, John, Paul etc didn't see it wrong to not use God's name in vain, then it's not wrong for us either.

We are commanded to not use His Holy name as a curse word. Or in a careless manner.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


we? as in people who follow the bible verbatim? Not everyone shares your views. There are people that refuse to have their pictures taken because they are afraid it will take their souls. Who's to say they aren't right? Just because you feel you're in the majority within a Christian sect does not mean you are correct.

Originally posted by JPhish
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

we? as in people who follow the bible verbatim? Not everyone shares your views. There are people that refuse to have their pictures taken because they are afraid it will take their souls. Who's to say they aren't right? Just because you feel you're in the majority within a Christian sect does not mean you are correct.

No, "we" as in humanity. God told the WORLD his commandments, whether or not people obey them is up to them. These commandments all unbelievers will be judged by.

There are people who still hold the notion the world is flat too, even TODAY! 'Who's to say they aren't right?' Common sense says so. Just like taking ones picture. God gives man their soul, it cannot be taken unless God takes it back.

"To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord."

Just because you feel you're in the majority within a Christian sect does not mean you are correct.

No kidding, that would be an appeal to popularity argument. We were taught to read for a reason. The scriptures say not to use God's name in vain.

For 1, "God" isn't his name, it's "YHWH", and it's impossible for humans to say, it has no VOWELS.

Secondly, it doesn't say "Never use the name of God", it says "Do not use the Lord's name in vain. And that means "without a purpose, or carelessly". It's okay to share God's word with others, we are told to do so.

He commanded us not to us His name for a curse word.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
Jesus was crucified because he threatened a very profitable system of control and the acquisition of wealth that some powerful people were very attached to.

This is a misunderstanding IMO. Remember that Jesus wasn't crucified by the Jews, but it was Pilate and the Romans who handed him over to his destiny to avoid riots it's written. Something the Romans faught back more than once during their occupation. Pilate was between a wall and a rolling rock. On one hand he had the Jewish establishment and the priests and on the other he had Rome. The Romans didn't allow the Jews to execute people. Had it been up to the enemies of Jesus they would have stoned him to death themselves, but they feared the consequences.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


for the record I use the Jewish custom of writing God as G-d as a sign of great respect however it is my choice and not mandatory....I also use the name Yeshua instead of Jesus as Yeshua was the true name of the Messiah and Jesus is a Greek translation of a translation......

Nor do I call myself a christian as that is a cleaned up translation of a very nasty epithet used by some of the folk in Antioch to refer to the followers of Yeshua and the Way...Yeshua said He gave us "the power to become Sons of God" - not christians...I am simply following the Word here...

I have absolute regard for the Word as revealed through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the Word made flesh as revealed through the Messiah -meaning I take HIM at His word - and very little regard for "sects", denominations, doctrinal disputes and such like which are man made and inspired by hubris- " a kingdom divided against it self cannot stand"...don't everybody flame me at once..
With great love in Christ
realshanti

Originally posted by realshanti
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

for the record I use the Jewish custom of writing God as G-d as a sign of great respect however it is my choice and not mandatory....I also use the name Yeshua instead of Jesus as Yeshua was the true name of the Messiah and Jesus is a Greek translation of a translation......

Nor do I call myself a christian as that is a cleaned up translation of a very nasty epithet used by some of the folk in Antioch to refer to the followers of Yeshua and the Way...Yeshua said He gave us "the power to become Sons of God" - not christians...I am simply following the Word here...

I have absolute regard for the Word as revealed through the guidance of the Holy Spirit and the Word made flesh as revealed through the Messiah -meaning I take HIM at His word - and very little regard for "sects", denominations, doctrinal disputes and such like which are man made and inspired by hubris- " a kingdom divided against it self cannot stand"...don't everybody flame me at once..

With great love in Christ
realshanti

I agree with you, I use Jesus because it is common, I know Him name is Yeshua, same as God, that is common, His name is YHWH.

And I agree with you, I'm not a member of an church or denomination, we all should be in the body of Christ. And Jesus Christ is the head of our "church".

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Bless your heart - I think there's quite a few of us about these days - the pidgeon holes of doctrine, dogma, and religious piety can't hold or encompass so great a love as Yeshua brings...so for those who have been burned or bound by such things, or simply mentally ascent to the secular or non secular "opinions" of others - its impossible to understand with the 'natural' mind why some of us out here believe in the Way, or why the Bible is so central to our walk in the Spirit...but that misunderstanding is not cause for alarm because "there is a time for everything under the heavens"....