Why can't we require drug tests in order to draw welfare?

Originally posted by Scorched Earth
reply to post by mopusvindictus

 

Actually I already lived in Scottsdale, and chose to move back. (McDowell Mt. Ranch).

So what, you live in the Biltmore area? Good for you. I'm sure you and your 18 roommates have no problem coming up with $200 each for rent every month.

[snip]

Nothing more needs to be said, as you....have...already....proven...you....know...absolutely....nothing.

you just lied at least 10 times your in vegas, your married, your moving to scottsdale lol (no mention of wife) (as per video) your already there, you have pics of girlfriends, you call names.

Whatever lol, nothing you say is true

you will say anything to be aggrevating and prove a point and it's all fictional

and ...maybe you do live in scottsdale, because then I pinned you to a T in the vid...

enjoy your bs stories

Mod Edit - removed insult



[edit on 20-8-2008 by elevatedone]

Sigh scortched earth. I think I just gave back a few genes from the humanity pool to your response.
For your sake. I hope you never find yourself in a time of need.

Your age, your true status and a whole lot more are blatantly revealed by your posts, the back and forth shows me only that you don't have employees your young and you have encountered difficulties. The ranks give away alot too.

The time will come when you get where you wish to be going and you will find that.

You wont hate your government, you won't care about taxes, you will have compassion for the poor and it will all happen in good time.

I know because i'm not that old myself just yet and I undertsand the kind of radical bs a guy trying to rise thinks and says and the arrogance that comes with youth and inexperience.

But trust me, in 5 years maybe 10 you will think of the things your saying and realize they were ridiculous

When you reach a place where money becomes meaningless so will the rest of this stuff your spewing

Truth is, I'm kind of chuckling because, I sounded and acted alot like you are sounding and acting, 10 years ago.

Your walking the walk and your still all full of piss and wind and, it's not even an insult, it comes with the territory.

Just a bit of advice, tone this stuff down, it doesn't endear you to getting money from people who have it, you mellow with age most of the time unless of course, you fail

Nobody will do anything for a guy who expresses these kinds of sentiments, it makes you a liability and mostly when people toss you the right kind of paychecks, it is welfare at first, it's giving you, your business or whatever a one up and it comes down to being liked. In it's own way it's a kind of welfare when people take risks on someone starting out and thats the reality

Welfare in the end all depends on where your sitting at the moment.

Your probably not completely full of bull, you figured out where I am after all, just all on fire lol

In time, your hopefully going to have that maid and all the rest and employees, as you earn more your going to know this governemnet is very much on the side of those that do and what they give the poor is barely worth mentioning, you'll find yourself paying people under the table because you mourn for those people who do menial labor and you'll be helping her get that welfare while paying her, you wont care if that person is an immigrant or takes foodstamps, you'll just know they help your life out and they are good people and you'll help them buck the system and never once will you even think things like that other guy like "steralize them" or cut them off

Because if you do it right and don't F it up, money and # will be the same thing to you. And you will feel guilty because every year you pay next to nothing and open new businesses and won't care of they take a loss or not because it just gets deducted so why not gamble? and you'll feel bad for these people, sometimes even guilty

So, good luck to you and calm down with the hate and anger, no one can be in your way but you. Not he Governement not people on welfare not me not anyone else.

and the key in the end, the real key is caring, it's appreciation, it's being a good guy that cares about other people, it's the single biggest factor that helped me make the leap.

There's nothing, nothing more powerful than both making money and being decent about it, people will flock to work with you if you just drop the anger and show the maturity and compassion, particularly when you have loads of employees, a great boss that gives damn is everything.

and you will meet those people at charity functions, not sloshing around scottsdale talking game.

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Excellent post mopus.

Your eloquence is astounding, especially given the intended recipient of that beautiful piece of writing.

I have no doubt that scorchedearth will acquire some humility with the passing of time. The child will learn as children do - by doing and having things done to him, he will hopefully learn something of his quality.

I hope he then corrects himself.

oh crap,

if they did this, the welfare program would go down the tubes quick.

lol .. at least 50% would fail. what an easy convenient way to kill the social welfare program! lets keep the poor people down! even though they live in the down-trodden communities where the drugs are pushed and sold, and even though they are living in conditions making them wish to use and/or sell drugs to escape literally or figuratively (leaving the 'hood, or running from your problems by getting high).

reply to post by runetang


but if they failed that drug test here in Canada, they could then get disability, which amounts to much more than welfare.

This idea is so stupid it could only have come from the UK or America.

Originally posted by Scorched Earth
reply to post by mopusvindictus

 

Nazi's? Far from it. Why should welfare parasites have the opportunity to produce more mouths for the taxpayers to feed?

Of course, if they dont like not being able to have kids, they could always get off of welfare.

Geeze, this thread started off seemingly ok, but has turned pathetic really fast.

Do you understand what forced sterilization means? (Emphasis provided.)

So, some poor schmuck ends up on welfare after their life goes off the rails and you want to perform medical procedure's on them.

Sounds nazi to me. After you're done with the unemployed, you can go after those that fit the profile of people who are more inclined to end up on welfare. Then, profile their parents, and start on them as children.

Gattaca style caste systems would then be implemented, because we wouldnt want those with inferior genetics doing the jobs that the superior class should be given as a birth righ. Everyone in their place. Utopia, right?

All for the betterment of mankind.



There was talk in Australia recently where instead of dole payments, people on welfare would receive food vouchers which could only be spent in certain stores.

That sounds far better imo that random drug testing of the population, unless you're going to include cigarettes, alcohol, abusable OTC medications, certain food products that can cause ill health AND include testing people on welfare who are overweight for anything unhealthy that may have been eaten.



Politicians here in WA recently gave themselves a $12000 a year pay increase. Thats about the same as a pensioner or a person on welfare would receive in total.

But it was justified, as...

Mr Carpenter is now paid $299,234 while the Prime Minister has a pay packet of $330,356.

Yesterday, Mr Carpenter was happy to accept the additional $12,000 he would receive each year, saying: "I'll probably end up having to pay a lot of bills."

link

...clearly shows. They need to pay their bills. Pay the bills... arrogant swines.

Now most of these politicians are earning just under $300,000 a year - TAX Payers money - and here there are people wanting to line people on welfare up and either kill them or steralize them.

bah, the logic in this thread is barely visible...

Forced sterilization... execution...

Here's an issue I've faced:
Section 8 housing. People whom work under my supervision constantly call out of work 2-3 days a month to keep their paycheck lower so to avoid being kicked off the section 8 program. What kind of message is this? Don't succeed, don't do better, just do the minimum amount of work so we the govt. can pay your rent?

I had one employee attempt to sue the company because he/she was fired over calling out sick every last 2 days of the month. As he/she told everyone in the office it was because of Section 8.

Originally posted by TruthTellist
reply to post by mopusvindictus

 

Excellent post mopus.

Your eloquence is astounding, especially given the intended recipient of that beautiful piece of writing.

I have no doubt that scorchedearth will acquire some humility with the passing of time. The child will learn as children do - by doing and having things done to him, he will hopefully learn something of his quality.

I hope he then corrects himself.

Thanks, you know... it's interesting, I was divorced about a year and a half ago ( might be getting back together ) but, I let her have everything.

So i just had to do it again... over 18 months, the whole dang thing lol, I had to relive every part of it and what took me 18 years the first time for all intents and purposes took me 18 months this time.

and i'm talking from less than zero

If I knew then what I knew now, it all could have been so easy the first time. Wouldn't have had the problems that rocked my marriage, wouldn't have hung out in the faux scenes with other hot headed ready to take on the world types,

and I never would have genuinely allowed myself to think I'm better than anyone else.

This round I've come up ultra fast, only on that humilty you wisely just mentioned, genuine class, doing or others and being of service anyway you can, letting go of ego and concentrating on being the best and more than that

your goal can't be the money at all. It has to be providing that service to others, taking employees this time, I concentrated on giving them a great job not my profit line, I took nothing for myself, I didn't write myself a salry all year beyond expenses, I based by goals around being useful and doing good things that actualy helped people, no gimicks, no games, no get rich quick illusions just the potential for growth and providing service and jobs.

That worked 1,000 x better

and I had to walk up, from 18 months ago a room in a house full of dope fiends on the west side, to The university, to scottsdale to here... and I bounced so fast by simply not thinking about myself and seeking to do things for other people my head is still spinning

and listening to this, it just reminded me of myself 10 years ago and the wrong way to think and the wrong attitude and the wrong reasons and the fury and the ego and...

lol I just had to take a step back here and laugh becuase so much lately, and not to be all religous or anything, but so much lately i feel like, the man gives me signs man and reminds me to keep it in check myself

and I remember a long time ago in a personality far far away... being a big douche at the scottsdale bars with my first money

And you know 18 months ago, I could have been on welfare myself and Humility somehow gets taught to you one way or another if you don't understand.

So, he can rant and curse , or listen, not my problem lol, but the advice is sound and welfare really doesn't hurt any of our pockts and somehow someway, you do reap what you sow in life, where I am now and who I am around, they mostly all got there the same way and it's the exception to the rule not the rule that hard ass behavior, ingratitude and ego is the recipie for success.

and yeah, you know... I could have taken welfare when my life went to zero and I didn't, but I know it;s crutch and other people don't alot of people are parasites, alot of people do nothing, alot of people are selfish and addicted and all the rest.

But it's not their childrens faults, often it's not their own fault, being dumb isn't a crime, niether is being born, I can't say that being an addict is a crime either...

some people I know and I have known plenty who are addicts, sure they would steal for their fix, or worse, if they didn't get help

but you know what, they are addicts, alot of them because they feel so deeply they can't handle reality, they are emotional, they have seriously good hearts and just can't cope and I don't mind it if they get that 1% lol and it keeps them from having to do degrading things or criminal things because for whatever reason they just can't function.

I just give thanks that I can function, the world can do sick things to people, who am I to judge?

and, I can't personally fix their issues, I don't want to have to hire people who really maybe just need to sit on a couch alot and it's enough for them to cope with that, I'd rather let them be taken care of, I can't run a business and be a psychiatrist simultaneously

Tont Robbins can explain all this to them better than I and lol, they don't listen to the tapes, you can't force people to change or understand things

we have food rotting in silos in america, there is no major expense for welfare, the % never varies much, of people in that state of mind, most of us aren't running off to get the govt cheese if more is offered.

alot of these people have real problems, lol, I was forced to live among alot of them for a few short months less than 2 years ago, they didn't "get" what I was saying, there was no motivating them, they need psychiatric help alot of them, to be rebuilt, and they can't even get the money for that in this system.

Rofl pregnant women get WIC they get Cheese, and Milk and 2% juice

food stamps they have to wait a month for when they have no food, money which in the end goes right back to American businesses, grocers and farms that pay taxes

and if housing is an issue they get section 8 hich is rarely a nice neighborhood

and thats for a pregnant mom. Maybe her kid will grow up to be an Einstien, who knows, it happens he wasn't rich

Rofl maybe we should have thrown Steven Hawkins off a cliff because he was a Crippie kid, g-d knows he didn't deserve some aid if he ever needed it lol

reply to post by bloodcircle


I don't know that we should bash the Rich anymore than we bash the poor.

It's abominable some of the things being said about welfare when the aid people get is so pathetic as it is...

At the Same time, as income goes for 2008-09 I expect to comfortably outclass your prime ministers salary

I am aware of course that, that is surely far from his only income in the position he is in, the salry is a token for a guy like that, surely he could buy and sell me.

But as I se it we are blessed with infinite wealth, there are always the negative people, particularly America gets bashed alot for it's wealth "while other countries are so poor"

But culture and optimism have alot to do with it, people also fear our debt lol

But I would say to that One small asteroid has enough precious metals to compensate 17 Trillion dollars and we have already basically the technology to accomplish these things.

G-d gave us everything we need within reach when we need it.

Now if your prime minister or myself is the kind of person that understands that there is limitless wealth and resources and becomes rich, you can't hate those people...

But you can hate them if they can't be the type of people who can part with some of it for those less fortunate... those who for whatever reasons can't see as he obviously can't the unlimited opportunities available to them everyday.

I really don't think there is much of a Screw the poor attitude in the west, I think handling a countries budget is a tough job and some peope lean to social aid others to defense spending, but mostly these guys are basically compasionate people

I think sometimes some of our leader going long enough with money just can't understand, given their nature of optimism, what it is like to be poor.



Maybe what is needed for elected high officials would be to set them up in an experience like I had for a few months prior to being in office, to go from riches to rags.

It would be interesting to see, because really an Obama very obviously doesn't truely understand life from the bottom rung

It would be interesting if politicians headed for the highest office were forced to spend 6 months, every 10 years or so, reduced to no resume and set loose in the country, made to find work and work up from zero...

the experience honestly changed me as a human being forever and made me a far better person.







[edit on 20-8-2008 by mopusvindictus]

Originally posted by asmeone2
1. It cost money but would save a lot more in the end.

Oh? Please provide the data for this claim.

3 & 4-- Agreed but that is really tangential to this thread. Even if they were legal and the govt. steps out, most of the problems would still remain.

What problems are you speaking of?

Originally posted by asmeone2
This plays hand in hand with the drug-user mentality;

Hmmmm. And what "mentality" would that be?

Sorry, one-liner, but that's all I have to ask.

People can be on Welfare for any number of reasons. The majority of those are suffering one form of hardship or another. (old age, chronic illness, death of the family's bread winner etc.) The Welfare system in most states is far from a free ride; the application process is tough and intrusive. It seems that requiring drug testing is likening those on Welfare to criminals as drug tests are a common requirement for Probation. It is easy when we are doing well to see the people on Welfare as second class. More often than not these people are in dire straights.

Why treat people as criminals if they are guilty of no crime?

I really do not think drug testing is appropriate in many circumstances.
In this particular situation it seems that it would cost more money to administer than it would save on Welfare dough.

If tax money is a concern, (as it well should be) there are better places to trim. War, pork projects, bureaucracy, contractor fraud are great places to start. If we can save a few billion in those areas, perhaps a genuine reform of the Welfare system could be possible.

It just seems a shame to vilify those who are already having a bad time.

Because crime would raise substanstially and cost the system so much more it would be unbearable to the country. In Canada, people can become temporarily considered unemployable if admitting to this problem, and they end up with some enhancements on the system, but they also have many hoops to go through. It has to do with how much crime and cost you want to have facing you in your country. Being realistic and developing more successful drug rehabilitation programs, that work with the dignity of the person and help them achieve some of their own goals and aspirations, like childhood dreams, is alot less costly.

reply to post by Scorched Earth


"Nazi's? Far from it. Why should welfare parasites have the opportunity to produce more mouths for the taxpayers to feed?"




I rarely get involved in these duels as i often feel both sides are too extreme. This being said, one cannot refute the NAZI comparison if they advocate forced sterilization.

I haven't read the replies, so my apologies if I'm repeating anyone, but here's a question:

Why should governments punish drug use in relation to welfare when they, as pawns of elitists agendas, are some of the main agents in drug traffic?

If anything such a measure would decrease the disposable incomes of drug addicts, which would hurt the incomes of the governments who are reaming them for drugs. Not only that but reduced drug use would mean reduced criminalization possibilities which would mean less pretext for totalitaristic police states, which seem to be the goals of the elites behind most western governments.

Governments in the western world want the drugs and they want the welfare. They want the social chaos so they can bring in the NWO.

Ordo ab Chaos or hegelian dialectic.

Having been saved by the system, I agree with the sentiment that people should be tested.

My family had to draw it because we were nearly homeless. I still remember going to the office and seeing the type of people that draw it. As recent as a couple years ago we needed help, I was an adult at the time so I saw it from an adult point of view. All I can say is if everyone were tested more than 3/4's would lose their benefits.

People should get welfare inversely related to their IQ and mental stability. Those who have great talents and choose not to do anything about it should have to fend for themselves. Those closer to the retarded spectrum should receive all the help and care we can give them. Care for the weak, kick up the ass of the strong.

Agree with the drug tests though, but logistically it would be expensive.

Originally posted by Zepherian
I haven't read the replies, so my apologies if I'm repeating anyone, but here's a question:

Why should governments punish drug use in relation to welfare when they, as pawns of elitists agendas, are some of the main agents in drug traffic?

If anything such a measure would decrease the disposable incomes of drug addicts, which would hurt the incomes of the governments who are reaming them for drugs. Not only that but reduced drug use would mean reduced criminalization possibilities which would mean less pretext for totalitaristic police states, which seem to be the goals of the elites behind most western governments.

Governments in the western world want the drugs and they want the welfare. They want the social chaos so they can bring in the NWO.

Ordo ab Chaos or hegelian dialectic.

You said it best.