Why can't we require drug tests in order to draw welfare?

Originally posted by VIKINGANT
I have been asking the same thing myself for years.

As it is there are many people abusing the system here in Australia, and quite a lot of them sit around playing their playstation on pot and anything else they can afford with no intention of finding honest work and the only form of depression they suffer from is either from coming down or not being able to afford to score.

If depression or bad luck is their problem, medicare provides free (taxpayer funded) medical help and counseling. In fact there a lot of ‘dole bludgers’ on Zoloft as well as weed.

It is an unfortunate cycle often passed on from parents that needs to be broken.

That is why I am opposed to the idea to get free healthcare here. It is not the panacea it is made out to be.

Just read the posts few posts...

You see I used to feel the same way before I started working for myself... when your on a limited income and particuarly when you have someone over your head giving you orders and you actually have to WORK... and By Work my definition is..."do what some other F tard tells you to"

You really do get pissed at welfare a few bucks on your taxes matter and you get pissed at your job which makes you resent a bunch of loafers...

But lol...like they have lives to resent?


Jobs suck... again there is only one purpose to "working" and that is having money to open a business... and yeah... not in this economy, not traditionally... but the net offers the opportunities...

Just...when you realize that having a Job...means your in a Feudal system...that your on a form of welfare or wage slavery anyway, and you actually set out to Buy your way out of that slavery...

You wont care one bit about welfare, you'll never notice it on your taxes...or well, what taxes before your earning alot...you can write off your losses for the first 3-5 years...

It's better on every level, in every way, Jobs is welfare, Scarl;ett almost has it because she knows everything that's not ...absolutely professional masters level or higher that's a "job" is Embarassing and they don;t want a smart perosn working... they want...wage slaves...

Get into business and the people on welfare won't annoy you at all... none of it will after a few short years...

and seriously.. do it now and beat the curve before Obama gets in and lowers the Capital Gains tax to a place that makes being in a place where your money is making you money.. Not You... alot harder to reach

Go into business you won't want free health care...

your employees pay for theres and you ride yours free off their payments to a bulk sum...

free health care is garbage...I want a doctor I Pay to give me the scrips I request anyway... be in business, you control the plan your company offers...

reply to post by mopusvindictus


I understand what you are saying, but realistically, it isn't going to work for everyone.

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by mopusvindictus

 

I understand what you are saying, but realistically, it isn't going to work for everyone.

Well... that maybe true, because it always has been true...

But you seem smart enough to get it...

i am not entirely against it but i think this will get caught up in the debate over what should and should not be an illegal drug. many welfare recipients are on medications and many medications show up as narcotics as well. but what are we going to penalize them for? coc aine, pot, booze, cigarettes? i mean, i would rather have my welfare recipient smoking one joint a day than smoking a pack of cigarettes with a 5th of vodka but that is just me. and i think that debate will rise up and overshadow the benefit.

We require drug tests to work for a living, but no drug tests to freeload.

That sucks, put simply.

I've never been a fan of welfare, and I'm not some silver spoon twit that just doesn't understand the need. I understand the need, but I've seen plenty of other ways of getting by, besides sucking on the government teat.

Drug test them, go for it. You have my vote.

[edit] Did anyone else see that survey on the most demeaning occuptions, where garbage man and janitor and the like were actually seen as being MORE demeaning than being on welfare?

That pissed me right off.

If, in our social consciousness, there was nothing more demeaning than being out of work, there would be a lot fewer people out of work. I see this all the time where I live - mothers on welfare, she smokes and drinks and parties, and the government pays for her kids to eat. That's bull#.

I DO UNDERSTAND how bad the job market is, I have firsthand experience. But I also know that there are a lot of jobs that get farmed out to immigrants because they're too hard or somehow beneath the citizenry. Hell with that. I'd rather break my back on a farm anyday than take one dollar from the government. I wish every one of my fellow citizens felt the same.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by WyrdeOne]

Originally posted by mopusvindictus

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by mopusvindictus

 

I understand what you are saying, but realistically, it isn't going to work for everyone.

Well... that maybe true, because it always has been true...

But you seem smart enough to get it...

I get what you're saying, I also get that it won't work.

Everyone can't own their own business. Some people simple aren't smart or dedicated enough.

Besides that, there are few businesses that can survive with one person alone; we need more employees than we do owners, or the system won't be perpetuated.

Originally posted by re22666
i am not entirely against it but i think this will get caught up in the debate over what should and should not be an illegal drug. many welfare recipients are on medications and many medications show up as narcotics as well. but what are we going to penalize them for? coc aine, pot, booze, cigarettes? i mean, i would rather have my welfare recipient smoking one joint a day than smoking a pack of cigarettes with a 5th of vodka but that is just me. and i think that debate will rise up and overshadow the benefit.

Since welfare is decided on a state level, ideally the people would have the chance to vote on what they consider illegal.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
We require drug tests to work for a living, but no drug tests to freeload.

That sucks, put simply.

I've never been a fan of welfare, and I'm not some silver spoon twit that just doesn't understand the need. I understand the need, but I've seen plenty of other ways of getting by, besides sucking on the government teat.

Drug test them, go for it. You have my vote.

Thank you for putting that a lot more succinctly than I did. I wish it would come to vote!

Welfare has a place in government. I just think that in ours (America) it is abused far too much. I think drug testing is a great idea.

However, I don't think that the folks who abuse the welfare system while being drug users, would up and educate themselves and elevate their status if it were all taken away due to drug testing. I think they would either resort to crime to sustain their addiction. Which brings another point. If testing were done as a condition of payment, would claiming addiction and needing help require the state to fund such individuals rehab? Still, I think there is some way it could be managed to be the most effective and would like to see it happen.

Although on its face drug testing for welfare recipients might seem like the socialist...oops! I mean SOCIALLY accepted thought to drop out of the pre-cut, pre-arranged, cookie cutter answer file; It makes me think to myself, and then to relay that inner thought to you all. Which was and is that the circumstances you describe and think you can conceptually link together are actually two separate scabs on the experimental festering vaccination site called the U.S.A.
Why do we need a welfare system? Because companies are paid and purposely keep food from people. Imagine if everyone knew they could get the same stuff tomorrow
for free if they just wait. Do you know how much food is DESTROYED PURPOSELY every day? Companies destroy perfectly good food to avoid "legal" issues, get tax breaks and
prop up a failing fascist-lite® nightmare.SUPPLY AND DEMAND MY ASS!! The government and farmers destroy tons and tons of food to make the numbers even out for the subsity they might get to squeek 'til next year. Meanwhile, the justice for the bad business practice of greed makes prospective customers "FEEL" that something ain't right in these fear based business models. Which drives wages down, etc. etc. welfare, drugs. Which are funded by the feds but thats another whole enchilada and I just ate dinner.
Drugs are the fast-food for the psyche. The momentary panacea in a fascist-collective-thought-onslaught that only SANE people notice. The rest are pacified by the lie and the life of riley. While I don't condone drug use, this is a free world in my head so to each their own. Welfare or not. What difference does it make if the money goes directly to the black-op's or to the drug-cartel then the street then the USER then the drug-cartel then the black ops? Who is injured by that? The thought is kind of special and caring tho' I'm sure the welfare recipient's feel ya.

Originally posted by Wolf321
Welfare has a place in government. I just think that in ours (America) it is abused far too much. I think drug testing is a great idea.

However, I don't think that the folks who abuse the welfare system while being drug users, would up and educate themselves and elevate their status if it were all taken away due to drug testing. I think they would either resort to crime to sustain their addiction. Which brings another point. If testing were done as a condition of payment, would claiming addiction and needing help require the state to fund such individuals rehab? Still, I think there is some way it could be managed to be the most effective and would like to see it happen.

Also in California you don't have to be on welfare for the State to put you thru rehab. The courts are full of these cases. Usually just a ticket will do, thank you very much! Then you get to go to "drug user training" where they make you live with 5 rotating hard core addicts and see how much you learn in two years. Most learn a LOT. But they are just weak I think....They could have put themselves thru Trade School. Plumbers!
Being set up by the State though...much research has been put into how beneficial this system is so I am most likely peeing against the zephyr as usual.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by human8]

Originally posted by asmeone2

Originally posted by mopusvindictus

Originally posted by asmeone2
reply to post by mopusvindictus

 

I understand what you are saying, but realistically, it isn't going to work for everyone.

Well... that maybe true, because it always has been true...

But you seem smart enough to get it...

I get what you're saying, I also get that it won't work.

Everyone can't own their own business. Some people simple aren't smart or dedicated enough.

Besides that, there are few businesses that can survive with one person alone; we need more employees than we do owners, or the system won't be perpetuated.

That's true... but what does that have to do with you...

You just hit the whole subject on the head...

There will always be bums (parasites)

There will always be workers (Cattle)

And there will always be Business Owners (Predators)

Worker imho is the worst place to be, your the Jan brady of the social structure...

Parasites and Predators both use you relentlessly...

Welfare makes no difference parasites simply find new hosts... don't give them the welfare they steal from you and your Boss the Predator comes down on your rear, don't give them welfare they take a job right nesxt to you... but they still will never worker...they will just demand workers rights and make your job more miserable than before...

Getting rid of welfare won't make a parasite anything else but a parasite it will just change the way they suck off you.

Don't give them welfare what wil you do, they will protest, they will riot, they will unionize if they do get jobs and run the business into the ground they work for... they are parasites, you can't kill them..there in reality is no one group of them to target...

But trust me they will find a way to suck...

welfare is actually a relatively sane way to keep that 10% of the population... from doing more harm... it doesn't cost alot really and it keeps them...complacent

Being on drugs... is good for a parasiet, mostly it keeps them indoors... not out in your face causing trouble with their free time...

Why make a parasite test for drugs...they will never have a Job or responsability... keeping them high 99% of the time is a good thing, let them...drinnk 40's and smoke weed all day...

Face it you don;t want to work with those people... and your never going to change them...

Some Jobs require a person to...take drug tests..because you actually have some responsability

If and when your ready to own a business... it's up to you to monitor yourself (I had a hard time with that at first ) or you won't be in business for long and go back to being a worker...

so it is really all rather fair

Don't get me wrong... I understand the resentment... and it is a correct "Emotion"

But really... you want these people on welfare trust a predator...

I need to have workers so I don;t have to work... I don;t want the welfare sect coming back to work..they won't... they will ruin everything for me...

I have to protect my workers (cattle) from parasites...so do the predators in Govt... welfare is there for a reason...

We have to keep you...as free of parasites as possible, because your crap for us to eat if your riddled with worms...

My business is a field full of cattle... I don;t want a bunch of buzzards coming in and feeding off you guys... they will contaminate me too...

They won't work, they will ruin your jobs, you will make less money, the herd will be diseased..their ways will rub off on you... they wont change...

My service will stink, other predators will out compete us... you will loose your jobs... the herd wills scatter... some of you will loose your mates... the predators...like me will be forced to fire/feed of the strong workers to avoid the parasites...

it is much better they are...sedated, left alone, left the bones of carcasses to feed on... any predator knows this...

It seems unfair...but the herd is much better off with these parasites isolated...

Where should a person who hates to work period be left to work...at your childrens daycare center...after 15 years on dope prior? Maybe at the Bank with your Money? How about teaching your young?

Why... how can it benefit anyone to make the 8% or so avg unemployed come compete for your jobs when they wont even work when they get there anyway... just do the same thing...loaf, cheat, steal...

much better to leave them surplus cheese and grain and a roof over their heads... do you want them in your neighborhood after your wife looses her job because productivity goes dismal at her work place...

These people have...no religion, lack education, behave poorly... why wake them from their slumber and activate them...

very cynical... I know, but very real...

on dope...they don't vote, they don't take your jobs, they don't bog down the workplace with anger and fustration and incompetence and unruly behavior... far more money is made by paying the tidbits they need to survive and get high.... than is lost by setting them loose to plunder society in a desire to avoid work

welfare costs... very little by comparisson to... getting them off drugs...

Besides...who pays for the drug tests you?... who pays the higher insurance costs when you ...put them in cars and they wreck them on the way to work?...you pay, who pays the price on the job?...you, who looses jobs? you... who is going to have to live with them? ...you


Drug tests cost money and to catch them they would need to be testd all the frackin time... then people have to be payed to monitor those tests...and You pay for them, then when crime goes up because they have no welfare it's You who pay for the police...

and then the police...who do they catch... the Junkie who is a professional Parasite..or you the Cattle the one day of the year you actaully get in a car drunk or do something mildly stupid... police will be hired to control their theft and crime not on welfare... and 99% of the additional busts will be your friends and family...because your not professional sneaky parasites for a living...

then your not at work and I suffer... sooo, keep them on drugs and out of society

It's Not cheeper to get rid of welfare... 70,000 an inmate a year in some states when they fall apart without it or commit crimes... you can keep 3 people on welfare for every one innmate your forced to arrest

no matter how you look at it your paying more... for Parasites

Us predators are smart... Keep em high, feed them their cheese... give em cheep rent and then... you don't have to deal with them... which is waaaaaaaaaay more expensive in the long run...




[edit on 20-8-2008 by mopusvindictus]

My suggestions for reforming welfare:

Mandatory drug tests.

Mandatory birth control.

Removing the right to vote until recipient is off welfare.

Removing any children from the home of recipient until they are off the public dime.




Welfare is unconstitutional. That is fact.

since people willingly overlook that, drastic steps must be taken to keep the fewest number of people on it.

and yeah...that's when they Revolt... and take all the liberals who feel bad for them along with them...

welfare prevents things like the French revolution... on dope and welfare they are 10% take their children and they are 40% because people feel sympathy for them when before the desopised them...

No...

it's your homes and your cars that get torched in a revolution...

and then...your not working either...

it's an everybody gets screwed scenario...


[edit on 20-8-2008 by mopusvindictus]

reply to post by mopusvindictus


Wherein the 2nd Amendment comes in very handy and we manage to solve 2 problems at once.

I dont see the downside.

reply to post by Scorched Earth


2nd amendment is meaningless in that situation...

your loosing the 2nd amendment to the behavior of the same types of people as we sit here and type...

These people don't... organize, they just sneak in your house while your at work, kill your wife when her back is turned and leave... and then because of the crime..not the revolution, the crime... guns are being taken away and the situation gets worse, because criminals don't care if they break the law...

The second amendment is for... making sure the predators stay in line and don't gobble up too much of the herd... it works on us, we have rules and a society, we are part of the food chain...

Parasites would... devour everything and have no care about what happens...

Far better they are sedated...

what do you do when the parasites ...create the revolution against...in the end, Us..take up arms against whom...mothers who lost their babies...

who is payed how much to take care of those babies? pays for the dope tests, enforces who does and does not vote...

on dope and welfare they handle their own kids (poorly) but they do, they don't bother to vote they don't have to steal...

problem with parasites is...they are invisable... they all have a story, they all blame the predators who...lol want (obviously) nothing to do with them... How do you know a sick cow from a healthy one in your herd...to use the 2nd amendment agaisnt them...

mixed in with you, you don't on welfare, you know exactly where they are and who they are...

2nd amendment is to protect the worker from the boss... it's useless against... a virus or a tape worm...

Originally posted by Scorched EarthWherein the 2nd Amendment comes in very handy and we manage to solve 2 problems at once.

I dont see the downside.

I read the title of this thread and was gonna post pretty much the same thing.


[edit on 20-8-2008 by justamomma]