Russia: US gave nod to Georgia

Originally posted by budski
Spot on - but isn't everything you mentioned part of the process of deflection?

Yes. Without a doubt.

What Russia has attempted to do is place the conflict in a vacuum, wherein the root causes of the conflict cannot be considered. All that matters is that "US gave the nod," and that is all the useful idiots will need to know.

In truth, it does not matter if the US gave a nod or not. This conflict has been brewing for almost twenty years. Georgia just happens to have jumped first, and that provided Russia with all the excuse it needed.

This whole situation is being put into too simplistic of terms.
This area is called a break away province for a reason.
It is breaking away from Georgia, not Russia.
That means there are insurgents coming from inside this province and attacking Georgian military outposts set up around it.
The Georgians got pushed to the point of wanting to punish the insurgents, despite the presence of Russian "peace keepers".

Originally posted by jmdewey60
This whole situation is being put into too simplistic of terms.
This area is called a break away province for a reason.
It is breaking away from Georgia, not Russia.

Even that is too simplistic.

South Ossetia has been breaking away since the early 1990s. It's been termed the "Frozen Conflict" by geo-political wonks. Nothing was resolved by the first South Ossetia War 16 years ago, other than de facto Russian control of South Ossetia. And no one has attempted to resolve the problem...that is until last week.

I believe Russia is part of this New World Order, otherwise -- they would have depossed of Putan... and put in one of their hand picked croonies.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Saying there was a "US nod" will provoke a knee-jerk Anti-American reaction. No matter what Russia does in Georgia, it will be justified in the eyes of the useful idiots.

Well, look, it doesn't hurt to point out the hypocrisy of Bush and Co in this matter. First they gave a nod, now they complain about the shakeout.

Call me a useful idiot if you wish. I'm just amazed that the US is playing hardball with the Russians and constantly tries to mount the moral high horse.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Well, look, it doesn't hurt to point out the hypocrisy of Bush and Co in this matter. First they gave a nod, now they complain about the shakeout.

No, they did not give the nod. All you have for that is speculation from the Russian Ambassador to the UN.

And pardon me for not trusting Russian state-lines on this.

reply to post by SaviorComplex

Nothing was resolved by the first South Ossetia War 16 years ago, other than de facto Russian control of South Ossetia.

Glad someone is keeping on top of this.
What we have right now is these Georgian military Posts around South Ossetia being destroyed.
They do not seem to be interested in going back to the old status quo.
The insurgents will be helped, in the long run and chances increased for a successful break away.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by jmdewey60]

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
No, they did not give the nod. All you have for that is speculation from the Russian Ambassador to the UN.

And pardon me for not trusting Russian state-lines on this.

You don't have to. The site www.stratfor.com is a perfectly pro-American intelligence and analysis pay site. They are convinced that this was the case. So there.

reply to post by BornPatriot

I believe Russia is part of this New World Order

I think the reason that Russia is having problems today is because they were able to restore its independence from the NWO.
So, they are thrown in with the Iranians as being not under control of the NWO.
If they were part of the NWO, there would not be people giving them a hard time.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
They do not seem to be interested in going back to the old status quo.
The insurgents will be helped, in the long run and chances increased for a successful break away...

No one is interested in going back to the status-quo, except for maybe the Georgians now. But a disinterest in sustaining the status-quo is what started the current conflict.

But South Ossetia will not break away. It will either eventually be absorbed into Russia or remain part of Georgia in order to provide context for any future Russian adventures.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
You don't have to. The site www.stratfor.com is a perfectly pro-American intelligence and analysis pay site. They are convinced that this was the case. So there.

That is fine. But I am not convinced; due to the nature of the Frozen Conflict, this would have happened eventually. However, I will agree that the Georgian government did wildly under-estimate what the Russian response would be, and at the same time, over-estimated Russian desires to remain in the West's good graces.

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Puh-leeze... You have Georgian artillery located in 5 different places, pounding the city. Your actions, Armchair Colonel?

Geez, I don't know. Maybe 60+ years of Russian military history?

How about reading about WW2? Russians were really big into the theory of "hard nut to crack, just use more troops, regardless of the cost."

Puh-leeze, and you don't think that Russia is taking advantage of this situation, Armchair Colonel?

reply to post by jerico65


Quite an incoherent and content-free post, my friend.

You didn't supply any notion of what YOU would do if the city was bombarded.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
That is fine. But I am not convinced; due to the nature of the Frozen Conflict, this would have happened eventually.

If the conflict was to remain in a "frozen" state, that would suit Russia but cetainly not Mr.Georgian Extraordinaire, who made the move to reclaim all the territories the central and the only meaningful point in his presidency.

Therefore, he had to act.


[edit on 13-8-2008 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by buddhasystem
Quite an incoherent and content-free post, my friend.

You didn't supply any notion of what YOU would do if the city was bombarded.

Nice deflection of the History of the Russian military.

I'm neither Russian or Georgian. I don't have a dog in either fight.

But, geez whiz, how come the Russians can invade when something like this happens, and no one bats an eye, yet here on ATS, the UN is the final say about what's illegal and legal in warfare???

I have to agree that something doesn't add here, it sounds to me like a suicidal attempt for a nation, but then again it has to be some type of encouragement.

It was pitiful when the Georgia minister was on TV asking for help that kind of hit me.

I will chose diversion either from Iran or just something else cooking in our own nation and in our own soil.

I don't trust my own government anymore.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by marg6043]

news.yahoo.com...


Rice told Georgia to avoid conflict with Russia: report

Wed Aug 13, 6:52 AM ET


WASHINGTON (AFP) - US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice privately warned Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili to avoid a conflict with Russia during her trip to Tbilisi in July, The New York Times reported Wednesday.

"She told him, in no uncertain terms, that he had to put a non-use of force pledge on the table," an unnamed senior US official who accompanied Rice on the trip told the newspaper.

The message was delivered during a private dinner on July 9, the report added.

Publicly, however, during the trip Rice blamed Russia as a source of continuing unrest in the country.

Russia "needs to be a part of resolving the problem and solving the problems and not contributing to it," she said at a July 10 joint press conference with Saakashvili.

Rice's July visit to Georgia came amid increased diplomatic confrontation between the Washington and Moscow over Georgia's desire to join NATO, as well as the status of the separatist provinces of Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

Despite the public bravado, top US officials warned the Georgians not to allow the conflict to escalate through until hours before Georgia launched its attack, the newspaper reported.

The top US envoy for the region, Assistant Secretary of State Daniel Fried, received a phone call from Georgia's foreign minister on Thursday saying their country was under attack, the report stated.

"We told them they had to keep their unilateral cease-fire," the unnamed official told the newspaper. "We said, be smart about this, don't go in and don't fall for the Russian provocation. Do not do this'."

Saakashvili did not inform Washington ahead of the offensive, senior US officials told the newspaper.

"The Georgians figured it was better to ask forgiveness later, but not ask for permission first," an administration official told the newspaper. "It was a decision on their part. They knew we would say no'."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Opps, so much for that "US nod of agreement".

reply to post by jerico65


Because of course the US administration would NEVER lie to anyone, especially not about WMD's, nuclear weapons programmes, arms to rebels, ongoing assasination squads, 911 or anything else, now would they.



PUHLEAZE
give unto me a break.

Originally posted by budski
Because of course the US administration would NEVER lie to anyone, especially not about WMD's, nuclear weapons programmes, arms to rebels, ongoing assasination squads, 911 or anything else, now would they.

PUHLEAZE
give unto me a break.

Because presstv.ir would NEVER lie about anything.

Puhleeze, quit cherry-picking the news that fits just your theories.

A small nation like Georgia will not be pulling one on a bigger nation like Russia if they are not pretty sure that they will have some backup for their brazenness.

I am still trying to put two and two together and still doesn't add.

I also agree that US will never admit to anything that will not look good on their side they have done it plenty of times before.