Hacker Wins Extradition Delay

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

No i was saying the technologies you talk of (if they exist) would be on very secure networks. Lots of secret stuff is kept incorrectly but not the stuff you were taking of, maybe i should have been clearer.

Thankyou, that does clear that up

He should still be charged for gaining access to computers he was not authorised to access. Lets be clear here, he used a perl script to enter blank and apparently manufacture default passwords, into every password field he could find. Therefore he illegally accessed systems which is against the law.

I believe someone has mentioned before the difference between what they are trying to jail him for, and Civil Disobedience (the act of attempting to expose government cover-ups and such by any means necessary.)

Your comments about publicly available webpages are meaningless, because he didn't just access the public part, he went looking for the private part, and that's where the crime is.

Fair enough.

Oh and i'm not sure why you're trying to argue he hasn't broken the law when he himself has said he has (i think). He's just trying to lessen his sentence and i hope it is lessened because it's a rediculous sentence for his crimes.

I know Gary has never denied he accessed those areas unauthorised, but I still believe it falls into the civil disobedience category. I am arguing the fact that the whole area is hazy and the US has no right to ask for his extradition.



[edit on 13/8/2008 by Kryties]

reply to post by Kryties


Corrrect - He should be given a fair hearing in the UK as if any "crime" did take place (ie if not seen as civil disobedience) the "crime" was initiated in the UK and therefore the case should be heard here.

Ross

This man did do something wrong he hacked into computers.
But the fact is WHY should it be so more serious to hack into a government computer than just an everyday person?
You don't see the feds chasing Nigerian hackers around the world because they empty little old lady's bank accounts do you??
Its supreme double standards.Complete corruption.
The money spent on pursuing this guy is a waste of tax payers money.
He should stand trial and be punished in his own damn country.
Why should tax payers foot the bill for it?
Why should tax payers foot the bill for Bill Gates selling the government faulty software?
Not to mention, he made them aware of the serious security floors in there computer systems.
Which since plugging the hole has made it more difficult for enemy country's to hack into sensitive military computers.
Its pointless getting this stay anyway because we all know the European court of Human Rights will not go against the military.
Look at Guantanamo and all the abuses that have been carried out there.
No one has even tried to do anything about that.
This whole affair stinks.

Originally posted by nomadrush
reply to post by Kryties

 

Corrrect - He should be given a fair hearing in the UK as if any "crime" did take place (ie if not seen as civil disobedience) the "crime" was initiated in the UK and therefore the case should be heard here.

Ross

I have to agree with this point, he should be tried in the UK and i am disgusted that we even considered deporting him. However the civil disobedience arguement doesn't work with computers because both the USA and the UK have clear computer misuse laws. So he should be tried under the criminal misuse laws of the UK as he was misusing them here at the time.

Sorry if this has been asked already, but. . .has this guy said anything about this? He's probably said something about what he 'hacked' into, and its got to have some threads of legitimacy.

reply to post by iamnotacrook


He has said an awful lot but provided zero proof.

Fair enough. . .but what, exactly, did he say?

The internet is however, for the most part, under US law.

I'll just point out that the actual crime happened in the USA therefore it is only correct he serves his eighty years here.

He's guilty and his time is running out.

OH LORDY!!!!!

What a mess we have here!

I leave for a 1/2 day and my thread gets all dirty

I will not reply to the negative posts as my point has been said many times.

To the positive people that think Gary should be free, thank you for your support!

I couldn't believe some of the members attitudes when catching up on the replies

Some were even bashing me for thinking he should be free LOL

Ill say one thing.....

GET A GRIP!




[edit on 13-8-2008 by IMAdamnALIEN]

Originally posted by IMAdamnALIEN
To the positive people that think Gary should be free, thank you for your support!

I couldn't believe some of the members attitudes when catching up on the replies

Some were even bashing me for thinking he should be free LOL

Ill say one thing.....

GET A GRIP!

So you think breaking the law is fine? So if someone breaks into a house then they should also be let free? The computer misuse act is there for a very good reason. If you ignore that law then you can ignore any law.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


READ THE THREAD

The pointless non-points are getting quite old!

Your examples are covered

I dont understand why we're even considering allowing him to be extradited. If a crime was committed then it was done in the United Kingdom, and as such he should be going through our legal system. There is absoloutely no way I would allow a single UK citizen be extradited to the USA for something they done while they were in our country!

Admittedly if he was in the USA and done something illegal, then Id be happy to ship him straight over for trial.

They are going to lock this guy up, keep the key and throw away the cell. All For making them look like idiots for having a unsecured computer connected to the internet with vital info. This sounds like a entrapment setup. How can they be that ignorant with securing a PC terminal?? They act like there was super sensitive information on there like the noc list on mission impossible. OMG pictures of Mars, with vast barren uninhabitable waste land. lol

How many years do you get trying to hack Fort Knox internet machines?? At least you would know what your going after. Jesus let this poor guy go, slap him on the wrist and move on. They want to keep him in prison and feed him and clothe him for 70 years, that the tax payer has to pay for. This man can be rehabilitated with a ankle bracelet, jail time isn't necessary.

Finally some good news for him, albeit not the greatest. The way I see it, he has done something wrong, but for the right reasons, like breaking into someones house to prevent a burglary. I have always believed we are being lied to and the truth distorted and the way the US has gone after him is, for me at least, a clear sign that he found something.

For those arguing the reasons as to why they are hunting him so ferverishly, couldn't it be both? you are arguing on 2 very good reasons, he found something, and they don't want anyone to try this again, these don't have to be opposing views.

70 YEARS IS TOO MUCH!!
$700,000 IS UTTER BOLLOCKS!!
INVENTING LAWS?! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!

Alot of people on here disagree with the OP, and tbh, so do I, he does deserve to be punished, he knew it may end up like this when he decided to do it, but he felt he needed to do it. This does not mean you should condone the acts of this government, in this case alone they have broke the law more than once, through using loop holes and power, this isn't justice it's revenge.

As for repairing/protecting their computers?! THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE!! you cannot, CANNOT claim that Gary should be charged for this??!! they should have done this in the first place, I don't agree that he should be congradulated on what he did, but to charge him for something they should've done in the first place, they are doing this to extradite him, let's try another example.

My house has no windows, for years it's fine, no one notices, no break ins. Then one day, someone decides to rob my house, and is caught. Was he wrong, yes, should he be charged to replace all my windows? depends what country you live in it would seem.

As for the second internet, I too have read that, but as gary stated, alot of these images were in the middle of being processed, they where not 'in storage' yet, then also we have our differing opinions on what ww could consider worthy, again depends on how far you believe this hole goes but IMO, the odd UFO and some random names on paper may not be considered 'classified' enough.

EMM

[edit on 13-8-2008 by ElectroMagnetic Multivers]

alrighty, I'll admit I know nothing of this story, but from what I'm seeing here:

The guy cracked into accounts that had either a default password, or no password.

He entered a system that was no this own without authorization

Ok, so basically, he hacked some systems, trespassed, took information... and people are saying he should get off scott free? um.. at what point did you all become retarded, I mean seriously?

So more or less, some people are passing around some rigamarole that he shouldn't be extradited. um.. why not?

as for damages, the cost of people to patch the holes and analyse the systems he was in to look fo rany kind of other hacking he did should count as well.


so basically, to paraphrase it, someone walks into your house and starts digging through your papers, and their justification was 'the door was unlocked' are you ok with this? by the way, the account is the door, so no, you can't really use the analogy that the door was open. it was closed, just unlocked.

now, what if it was a cop instead of a random joe. you'd be screaming bloody murder.

I don't reckon he found much either.

Because if he had stumbled into something Juicey the Government may just be a little afraid he'd spread it all over ther world if they lock him up for to long.


So obivous they just want an example.

Originally posted by Shamanator
I'll just point out that the actual crime happened in the USA therefore it is only correct he serves his eighty years here.

You have no idea, do you?

Gary was sitting in the UK when he allegedly committed the alleged 'crimes'.

You need a geography lesson.

Gary needs to be set free.

Taken from Project Camelots Website:


"On the European Court of Human Rights to hear McKinnon Case:

I am concerned over the speed of this now. Regarding Abu Hamza, (a radical Muslim preacher accused of helping to set up a terrorist training camp in the United States), we heard they are also hearing his case and the UK is staying extradition on this until the European Court rules:

Radical Islamic cleric Abu Hamza has extradition to US postponed

Excerpt:

Last Updated: 12:08AM BST 05 Aug 2008

The European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg gave the order as the 48-year-old's lawyers claimed he would be kept in inhuman conditions.
US authorities want to jail Hamza in America's most secure jail, the Supermax ADX Florence in Colorado, which houses 38 convicted international terrorists.
His lawyers claim that prisoners live in boxes, there is only two hours exercise per week, there are no family visits and every correspondence is intercepted.
The Home Secretary Jacqui Smith has already approved Hamza's extradition and last month Hamza was refused leave to appeal to the Law Lords, the highest court in England and Wales.

A Home Office spokesperson said: "The decision is a matter for the European Court. We shall seek to have his case expedited so it is heard as soon as possible." End excerpt.

But you can see that THEY ARE ALREADY SAYING THEY WANT TO SEND Hamza to the Colorado Supermax... So the European Court could say that they have tangible evidence of what could be termed 'cruelty or possible inhumane treatment'... In Gary's case they do NOT yet, to my knowledge have any indication of where they plan to send him. This could be an indicator that may make arguing the case more difficult for Gary's side.

And efforts to contact Majestic via DB may have moved the timeline because they (the PTB) are afraid we might gather more evidence and a following for Gary that would force the secret space program into the public arena. Because of this, they may be escalating matters.

But I want to stress that the evidence Gary found for the secret space program is likely his only TRUMP CARD. If he doesn't play it then the Americans may be able to simply promise not to torture him...

But I am no legal expert... What they may be doing behind the scenes could be something like, 'you give us Hamza and you can keep Gary....!!'

Who knows."

What a lot of the global (sic) population don't seem to understand about Gary's case, in particular, is that he did very little, in the way of damage. The main damage was to the American glass ego.

They have managed to get an extradition order based on an UNFAIR and BIASED extradition treaty, (that denegrates British citizens to a level where they have no rights to a fair trial,) that breaks human rights written into the British statute books in the form of the Human Rights Act.

This is what Gary's fight is mainly about.

The Law Lords made a grave error of judgement when granting extradition and their published ruling has a MAJOR error in it. It basically assumes that if found guilty in the US Gary will serve 7-10 years and then be repatriated.

There is no mention of 7-10 years PER COUNT!!

It's about time the Brits started making as much noise about this as possible!

Thanks to all those that already are!