Hacker Wins Extradition Delay

Originally posted by Baxtoriafall
Still a lot of America haters I see...

I am an American by the way.
What exactly did he find?

[edit on 15-8-2008 by Baxtoriafall]

Not American Haters

Just Ignorance Haters

Isn't that what the this site is about? .............. ATS, deny ignorance, please!

Read up on the subject matter before posting on the topic and you might be able to add CONSTRUCTIVELY to this thread. Otherwise you just sound ignorant.

Originally posted by memory_nuke
Have some of us forgotten that McKinnon had said there were other hackers on the computers too?

Where is the "justice" for them too?

Double standard here. Gary is the unlucky one who got caught.........

They cant hide the fact we aren't alone forever......

This paradigm will crumble.......

reply to post by nomadrush


really? who? so far i've seen a lot of people bitch about americans wanting this, but when the other side of the opinion is posted we get trashed for our viewpoint.. that would be american bashing..several have stated that we are supposed to deny ignorance, obviously some here should practice what they preach, namely those who have flat out ignored some of the facts in favor of their own opinion, someone stated earlier that this could be considered as an act of terrorism. i suppose it could but that would be a bit of a strech. how ever it definaltly can be seen as an act of espionage. and just to make a point what would happen to an american caught spying?? or breaking another countries laws, america has let other countries extradite its citizens for breaking the law. and as far as gary getting a fair trial here, sure there are some doubts. but in the main i think there would be a 99.99% chance he would..and i think that if the shoe was on the other foot england would want to extradite and america would oblige,

reply to post by Nexus1


based on the comments here theres a lot of hate at americans.. reread some of the posts.. u'll see what i mean

[edit on 15-8-2008 by scorand]

reply to post by IMAdamnALIEN


and what happens when u get caught breaking the law?? no double standard here, and its true enough that they cant hide it forever. the truth will out

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by malganis

 

Are you saying all countries should just follow the USA and rewrite their laws? Don't you think that's rather arrogant?

lol i don't know where you pulled that crap from, I was asking a question, I didn't say anything about anyone rewriting any laws. My point is that America could be quite rightfully p*ssed if he doesn't get a sentence that they think is appropriate.

Not that I want to see this guy go down for 70 years, but i'd be pretty annoyed if I was the USA and people were allowed to attack my country and receive a lax sentence. (lax in their eyes i mean, i'm not judging if it is or not)

[edit on 15/8/2008 by malganis]

I don't think Gary Mckinnon should be extradited to the hypocritical U.S government, who are basically a gang of arrogant demanding childish scumbags, but I do think his story is partly b.s.

You see, he stated that there was lots of other hackers in the system from all over the world, so presumably the other hackers saw what he saw. Now while I understand that he obtained no proof of ET/Free energy e.c.t there is no reason why any of the other hackers couldn't have obtained some evidence, yet no screenshot of any sort have surfaced from anywhere in the world. I think he 'made up' the part about finding the ET stuff to garner support from the conspiracy community, and it's worked as we now have petitions and such for his freedom.

Originally posted by scorand
someone stated earlier that this could be considered as an act of terrorism. i suppose it could but that would be a bit of a strech. how ever it definaltly can be seen as an act of espionage.

The only act of terrorism or espionage that has been committed, is by the US government and its agencies.

They are hiding information from the public, that should be public knowledge.

Free Gary, he's innocent.

reply to post by nomadrush


i'm not demanding he gets extradited. i just didnt agree that he didnt do anything wrong..

reply to post by nomadrush


shall i go into u'r millitary or space program systems and,, ohh... i dont know, delete files and just snoop around.. please, the brits or which ever country would be screaming for my blood..he did it intentionaly, as in pre meditated.. if an american did it.. they'd be shipped over there so fast their head would spin... if it was england anyway.. dont know about some of those other countries..

[edit on 16-8-2008 by scorand]

reply to post by tezzajw


the man went into another countries millitary computer system.as well as the space agencies. he admits it, snooping thru it to find specific miliitary info, the man is far from innocent. just because we feel that whatever he found should be disclosed, doesnt give him the right to break the law and go in himself...this is spying, and he violated national security to do it.

so dispite all the whining about the us gov,, and i hate the current admin myself. but he broke the law and got his stupid*** caught..

[edit on 16-8-2008 by scorand]

[edit on 16-8-2008 by scorand]

reply to post by Corum


not unlike some on this thread.. while i dont like the current admin.. hopefully the rest of the american public will wake the f*** up.. from what i've read so far this guy admitted to breaking into the american millitary and nasa computer systems.. hacking nasa is one thing but the millitary is a whole other ball game.. now it becomes a national security issue.. and a very seirious mistake on his part.. if england doesnt send him over they better deal with him to the U.S.'s satisfaction

Originally posted by Kryties

I can't believe the US concocts such bollocks.

911
WMD's

And if it were a US citizen in the situation being wanted by the British the US would go ape-doodoo and protect its citizen.

So why does not the British Government stand behind him? Can't blame the US if they just toss him to the wolves...

:shk:

What did he do wrong? He didn't get the picture and the list... at least then the punishment might fit the crime...

Now if he is extradited does he not have to go to trial here first? Would not running a strong petition do some good? Call your congressperson.. a senator... write letters to your rep...

Originally posted by scorand
just because we feel that whatever he found should be disclosed, doesnt give him the right to break the law and go in himself...this is spying, and he violated national security to do it.

If you're naieve enough to think that the 'law' was created with good intentions, then you're wrong.

The government and its agencies are hiding critical information from the public. No fudged 'law' in the world should be created to hide this.

Powerful people make 'laws' to protect their standing, profits and to control information. They don't care about us peons.

Their 'laws' are as evil as the secrets that they keep. Their 'laws' are immoral and unjust.

Information for the public should not be secluded by government agencies, who are supposed to work FOR THE PEOPLE.

I think most people in the world are duped into thinking that the 'law' is something good for them... Far out, don't people live by their own morals anymore? Do they all need a rule-book to live by and slapped on the wrist when they do something that breaks subsection three, paragraph two, dot point four?

Free Gary, he's innocent.

SCREW the USA and its national security. The more they hide, the more evil they are.

Originally posted by malganis
Not that I want to see this guy go down for 70 years, but i'd be pretty annoyed if I was the USA and people were allowed to attack my country and receive a lax sentence. (lax in their eyes i mean, i'm not judging if it is or not)

But that is just the point he didn't attack any country... he snooped in a NASA Johnston Space Center Directory...

You CANNOT hack into any secret or top secret government computer from the internet it is NOT possible... So what he got was a glimpse of a file left by some official on his personal office PC THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE

Most CT'ers that do research trying to expose the government are daily looking for stuff. I myself look around NASA and .mil sites daily and many times have found a door closed or clicked okay on that warning that says "You understand that by continuing your activities will be monitored"

What he did is use a method that went beyond normal searching in accessable directories... and actually accessed a machine directly... but if the door was not open there is NO WAY he could have opened it

Yes he broke the law...

Yes he admitted to that...

No he did not attack the country... nor did he reveal anything sensitive...

He says he saw a list of non-terrestrial officers... where is that list? what does non-terrestrial officers mean?


Well maybe he means THESE

Beginning in the mid-1980s, concurrent with the development of space operations and space engineering curricula at the Naval Postgraduate School, the Navy began “coding” officers as space subspecialists. As space subspecialty codes were then assigned to particular officers’ billets on numbered Fleet staffs and at commands ashore, the service began assigning Navy members with matching codes to those positions. More recently, the Navy has begun efforts to build a cadre of “space smart” officers, enlisted personnel and civilian employees.

The Naval Space Cadre is composed of active-duty and reserve Navy and Marine Corps officers and enlisted personnel, along with Navy civilian employees from a wide range of career fields who meet mandatory education, training and experience standards established for a particular certification level. The Navy Space Cadre is a distinct body of expertise horizontally and vertically integrated within Navy and Marine Corps active duty, reserves and civilian employee communities organized to operationalize space

Initial identification of the cadre began in mid-2001 with the standup of the Naval Space Cadre Working Group and culminated in a naval message (NAVADMIN 201/03 DTG211435Z JUL 03) announcing the first 700 officer members of the cadre. These officers were identified by the subspecialty codes of 6206, Space Systems Operations, and 5500, Space Systems Engineering or by the additional qualification designator of VS1, VS2, VS3 or VS4. Identification of enlisted and civilian cadre members is more challenging, as these groups do not have specif?ic space identifiers like the officers do.

Approximately 265 billets are currently identified as space billets. These jobs are in Navy, joint and National Security Space organizations. Space cadre members are currently assigned throughout the National Security Space arena, including the National Reconnaissance Office, National Security Space Architect, National Security Space Integration, MILSATCOM Joint Program Office, as well as in all Navy organizations that deal with space.

High Frontier
The Journal for Space and Missile Professionals
Summer 2004
SOURCE: Air Force Space Command

But then these are NAVY The Other space program The guys who flew the Clementine mission so I doubt NASA had these guys on their computer..

He says he saw a picture of one of the secret spaceships...

Well the internet is full of people (and so is ATS) that have similar claims...where is his proof?

Oh yeah he didn't make a copy of the list or the photo... he also didn't look in his cache or temporary files folder that stores everything you see on your screen...

Hmmm

So WHY such a big sentence? 5 years for this and no one would have paid attention...

70 years and it screams out like a siren that he did find something

Heck I have more evidence about the secret astronauts and secret space programs than he does and ALL of that came from publicly accessible files...

So the problem here is the punishment... we have murderers here in the US that get less time

There is something not right here...

There is something we are missing..


[edit on 16-8-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by malganis
Not that I want to see this guy go down for 70 years, but i'd be pretty annoyed if I was the USA and people were allowed to attack my country and receive a lax sentence. (lax in their eyes i mean, i'm not judging if it is or not)

But that is just the point he didn't attack any country... he snooped in a NASA Johnston Space Center Directory...

You CANNOT hack into any secret or top secret government computer from the internet it is NOT possible... So what he got was a glimpse of a file left by some official on his personal office PC THAT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN THERE

So by that logic it's ok to go into a government/military building where confidential material is being handled, and if the handler turns their back for a second that means all security and laws are void and you should take a glimpse?

Yes it might be the official's fault that the information was left vulnerable for McKinnon to access, but that doesn't mean that McKinnon should do it. It doesn't matter how easy it was or how good he is at 'research, he knew that it would mean trouble.

70 years and it screams out like a siren that he did find something

Well yeah either that or he almost found something. The area that he was in obviously contains sensitive material, which is why you shouldn't try to find ways to get in. Legally petition the authorities to release the information, sure. But never try to get a sneaky look at what they're trying to hide, because they will get mighty p*ssed.

reply to post by scorand


As I have said before and will say again, I wanted to MOVE to America and I have loads of friends over there, i am even a Director of the UFO Congress in Nevada, so I cannot and will not be labeled as an "American hater".

Nor have I ever said Gary McKinnon is innocent, I have just said that he may have committed an act of "civil disobedience". But one fact I KEEP stating remains and that is that he was in his own room in England when this alleged crime took place therefore under UK laws he should be tried in the place where the "crime" took place - namely ENGLAND.

If he is found guilty he will be imprisoned and that should be enough to satisfy the US Government - so why the great call to have him extradited?

IF however, the real reason they want him extradited is so that the alleged evidence he found does not have to be shown in court, THEN I can see why they are fighting so hard ton get him out there! Because lets face it, if he really DID find evidence of "non-terrestrial officers" and alien presence, then this whole matter is a LOT BIGGER than someone "hacking PC's"!

Ross

Originally posted by nomadrush
reply to post by scorand

 

But one fact I KEEP stating remains and that is that he was in his own room in England when this alleged crime took place therefore under UK laws he should be tried in the place where the "crime" took place - namely ENGLAND.

I agree that the proposed charges are much too harsh for him. And I don't agree or disagree with the point I quoted above.

But I want to know why you think he should be tried in the UK just because he was in the UK when the crime was commited? Surely the country that was victim should at least have a say in what happens to him?

If (theoretically of course) a rogue general/terrorist/whatever was to fire a missile from Ireland and hit England, wouldn't you want to bring him to England and try him for crimes against the UK?

Originally posted by nomadrush
As I have said before and will say again, I wanted to MOVE to America and I have loads of friends over there, i am even a Director of the UFO Congress in Nevada, so I cannot and will not be labeled as an "American hater".

I just wanted to quote this to show that yet again those against the deportation are not america haters. It's very easy to dismiss us as such but it's wholly incorrect.

Originally posted by nomadrush
Nor have I ever said Gary McKinnon is innocent, I have just said that he may have committed an act of "civil disobedience". But one fact I KEEP stating remains and that is that he was in his own room in England when this alleged crime took place therefore under UK laws he should be tried in the place where the "crime" took place - namely ENGLAND.

Nomadrush, please forgive me here, i thought he was in Scotland when he commited the crimes. If i'm wrong please correct me, i know it's a small point but i think it's relative.

Originally posted by nomadrush
If he is found guilty he will be imprisoned and that should be enough to satisfy the US Government - so why the great call to have him extradited?

If however, the real reason they want him extradited is so that the alleged evidence he found does not have to be shown in court, THEN I can see why they are fighting so hard ton get him out there! Because lets face it, if he really DID find evidence of "non-terrestrial officers" and alien presence, then this whole matter is a LOT BIGGER than someone "hacking PC's"!

Again i will state the obvious reason that they want him gone. It's because he gained access to their system. They are embarrassed that such a simple flaw was exposed in their system. Let's rememebr that this is computer tech 101, it's not complicated, it's the basis of anyone working in the computer trade. It shows the USA has some idiots working for them.

I have to ask this question.

Gary has shown a very clear flaw in the system, a flaw which should never have been there because anyone worth their salt in the IT trade knows to cover these flaws. Should he be given some leniency for exposing these simple flaws and ignorance/lazyiness on behalf of the IT techs in the USA administration? He should go to jail, i agree, but 70 years is rediculous. Could his defense use the idea of him helping them defend there systems from foreign powers as a good reason to reduce his sentence?

reply to post by Evasius

We should probably also note that hacking the governments computers is borderline treason. (If you consider the UK and USA to be allies that is.)


[edit on 17-8-2008 by jprophet420]