The True Face Of The Dalai Lama

yes,the title was first called by mongolian,and the dalai lama is mongolian language,not tibetan. but the post is talking about why the sect could have risen to the top over other sects,it was granted and sponsored by the ming central government.and all those imformations are from wikipedia,go and check it out.

You know, where so called prisoners are used to do productive labor? Keep up the fight for the exploited.

We have the same thing here in America, it is called UNICOR, it was created in 1934, and most of the production is utilized for government agencies. Unfortunately the exact website is down.

Anyways I think it is horrible the way Tibet used to be, and all we need to know the truth is probably step into a University Library. University libraries are typically filled with texts you would rarely find at your local municial public library. Or you can also check the library of your closes Federal prison.

See the real literature is typically kept away from where the general public can easily access it. So if it is a book you seek, go to your closest University to verify the historical accuracy of the Op's claims. If your city is big enough, you can try the main public library first, typically located closr to your downtown area.

As I was unaware of these historical claims, and am aware of the lack of credibility rense holds, partially due to the way they do not cite any references. EVER! I mean not everything on RENSE is false, but they never cite their references. so before slandering and attacking the op, which is a violation of the T&C, expand your mind and do some research.

I support your keeping your stance and not letting the typical conservative hate mongers that smear you and incite hate against you bring you down.

[edit on 8/9/2008 by DYepes]

Originally posted by round_eyed_dog
That's just a blatant falsehood. The person who actually coined the title of Dalai Lama, was Altan Khan of Mongolia who bestowed the title upon Sonam Gyatso in 1578.

Nice Wikipedia translation.


You missed the point entirely. I said "The Dalai Lama as a position was created by the Chinese emperor ". I did not say that the Chinese emperor was the first one to call him that name. Before the 5th Dalai Lama was in power the position was as a religious figurehead. The Chinese emperor bestowed that title "Dalai Lama, Overseer of the Buddhist Faith on Earth Under the Great Benevolent Self-subsisting Buddha of the Western Paradise" which effectively acknowledged his political power as well making him the head of state. Control of this position was later further established when the emperor himself would name the Dalai Lama with the drawing of the barely balls out of the golden urn

You should also be ashamed of yourself for insinuating that someone else's faith is "bs".

So one is not allowed to voice their opinion?



There are other ones. Muslims and the 72 virgins, morons, scientology the "virgin" mary

Oh yea chinawhite, those names run rampant on this site. In any case, I will have to visit my local University to find any texts relating to the history of Tibet, the net can be very decietful as well as insightful.

Originally posted by chinawhite

Originally posted by round_eyed_dog
That's just a blatant falsehood. The person who actually coined the title of Dalai Lama, was Altan Khan of Mongolia who bestowed the title upon Sonam Gyatso in 1578.

Nice Wikipedia translation.


You missed the point entirely. I said "The Dalai Lama as a position was created by the Chinese emperor ". I did not say that the Chinese emperor was the first one to call him that name. Before the 5th Dalai Lama was in power the position was as a religious figurehead. The Chinese emperor bestowed that title "Dalai Lama, Overseer of the Buddhist Faith on Earth Under the Great Benevolent Self-subsisting Buddha of the Western Paradise" which effectively acknowledged his political power as well making him the head of state. Control of this position was later further established when the emperor himself would name the Dalai Lama with the drawing of the barely balls out of the golden urn

You should also be ashamed of yourself for insinuating that someone else's faith is "bs".

So one is not allowed to voice their opinion?

There are other ones. Muslims and the 72 virgins, morons, scientology the "virgin" mary

No, it's fairly obvious you were intentionally making a misleading statement. Your opinion would have been fine, without the boorish comment.

Oh and Of course I used Wikipedia that was actually the point. The OP said in a previous post to: "look on Wikipedia." So I took information that I found on wikipedia AND my Encyclopedia Britannica to provide information at the OP''s suggestion.

The problem with the interent is that it is very Pro-Tibet or very Pro-China perspective on this information with each side giving their own interruptations. Although you can be very one sided in your arguments it doesn't mean that they are wrong. There never seems to be the "middle road" approach the 14th Dalai Lama seems to take.

reply to post by haidian


OK so you are saying that the current Dali Lama supports the type of torture and repression that is cited in the Rense.com article?

Do you have any other proof than this one site? If so PLEASE link it, I assure you the Mods will salute you rather than condemn you for sharing more supporting evidence.

I also must say that I think you are simply here to spread propaganda.

he was like that when he was in tibet,the evidence shown in the article.but now he cant even he wants,he is not in tibet.the man is working hard to get international sympathy,he is in exile.but there are always very dark facts in old tibet that he doesnt want to bring to light.

Tenzin Gyatso, as is his real name, had to by default support this horrible system that was in place in Tibet if the history is true. Otherwise why would he have fled after a failed uprising right?

I never knew much about this guy, but after reading the wikipedia article, and then reading about the horrible history of Tibet, you kind of just have to put two and two together.

That is not saying that he has not changed his ways. I dont believe he holds that way of thinking today after more than fifty years.

Originally posted by haidian
he was like that when he was in tibet,the evidence shown in the article.but now he cant even he wants,he is not in tibet.the man is working hard to get international sympathy,he is in exile.but there are always very dark facts in old tibet that he doesnt want to bring to light.

I'm sure there are dark facts in Tibet's history. There are many dark facts in the history of the United States, as there are in Chinese history.

If you spend enough time looking for skeletons in human history you will most assuredly find them.

I'm not sure if I believe the Dalai Lama is actively trying to quash Tibetan history though.

I would be very disappointed with a man who did not try to get the worlds sympathies. The best way to do that is to reach out to our current royalty: celebrities. If the Dalai Lama hadn't tried to evoke international sympathies, do you think he would have had many talks with China's leaders? Would he even still be alive?

Originally posted by Animal
Type of torture and repression that is cited in the Rense.com article?

Friendly Feudalism: The Tibet Myth
www.globalresearch.ca...

The pictures of these torture methods were taken by British explorers and not by the Chinese. Anyhow I dont think anyone is trying to deny that Tibet was a Fedual system in which torture occured in. There are quite a few good documentries on pre-1950 Tibet

Originally posted by round_eyed_dog
No, it's fairly obvious you were intentionally making a misleading statement. Your opinion would have been fine, without the boorish comment.

Fairly obvious to whom?. Which statement are you referring to?. Anyhow you jumped over what I said given that you read it wrong and then accused me of "blatant falsehood".

This:

Originally posted by chinawhite
The Dalai Lama as a position was created by the Chinese emperor so in effectively a leadership position the emperor could control. Not some fansty of spirts from the other world or other BS like that

Does not equal this:

Originally posted by chinawhite
Before the 5th Dalai Lama was in power the position was as a religious figurehead. The Chinese emperor bestowed that title "Dalai Lama, Overseer of the Buddhist Faith on Earth Under the Great Benevolent Self-subsisting Buddha of the Western Paradise" which effectively acknowledged his political power as well making him the head of state. Control of this position was later further established when the emperor himself would name the Dalai Lama with the drawing of the barely balls out of the golden urn

Now, in my opinion these two quotes have entirely different meanings, especially since the remark on reincarnation was inserted which would hint at the stations origin rather than the status as a political leader.

If the below statement was your original intent, then I truly did misunderstand you, but I have a feeling that that isn't the case and the quote was ambiguously worded to infer something else.

Likewise
This:

Originally posted by chinawhite
The Dalai Lama as a position was created by the Chinese emperor so in effectively a leadership position the emperor could control. Not some fansty of spirts from the other world or other BS like that

Dos not equal this

Originally posted by round_eyed_dog
That's just a blatant falsehood. The person who actually coined the title of Dalai Lama, was Altan Khan of Mongolia who bestowed the title upon Sonam Gyatso in 1578.

As I clarified before. I refered to the position of the Dalai Lama as head of state of the country not some mythical creation that suddenly appeared to lead the people. eg "I felt an aura of peace near the Dalai Lama". The sentence was intended to show that the Dalai Lama is a MERE mortal not some mightier than thou being

especially since the remark on reincarnation was inserted which would hint at the stations origin rather than the status as a political leader.

Please clarify this part. I do not understand why you have used the expression "station" as it doesn't seem to symbolise anything

Originally posted by chinawhite
Likewise
This:

Originally posted by chinawhite
The Dalai Lama as a position was created by the Chinese emperor so in effectively a leadership position the emperor could control. Not some fansty of spirts from the other world or other BS like that

Dos not equal this

Originally posted by round_eyed_dog
That's just a blatant falsehood. The person who actually coined the title of Dalai Lama, was Altan Khan of Mongolia who bestowed the title upon Sonam Gyatso in 1578.

As I clarified before. I refered to the position of the Dalai Lama as head of state of the country not some mythical creation that suddenly appeared to lead the people. eg "I felt an aura of peace near the Dalai Lama". The sentence was intended to show that the Dalai Lama is a MERE mortal not some mightier than thou being

especially since the remark on reincarnation was inserted which would hint at the stations origin rather than the status as a political leader.

Please clarify this part. I do not understand why you have used the expression "station" as it doesn't seem to symbolise anything

I would have to agree with r.e.d., it does seem like you were trying to be purposefully misleading.

As for the original poster I'm also a little disturbed by the argument that Tibet was so uncivilised and barbaric that China must rule them for their own good. This argument seems quite close to the excuse slaveholders gave for taking people from Africa.

actually i think that is a vey good article that tells a lot of truth and facts about old tibet,very educational and informative.many people talk tibet from the back of their head,they dont have any idea of what tibet is and related history,culture..,they just like to jump on the bandwagon. they think tibet must be a peaceful and nice paradise in the past,but the truth is the very opposite.i think it is always good to know something before you comment on it.

As for the original poster I'm also a little disturbed by the argument that Tibet was so uncivilised and barbaric that China must rule them for their own good. This argument seems quite close to the excuse slaveholders gave for taking people from Africa.

Well your kind of sending them the wrong message. Tibet was annexed in a time when all major powers were adding land to their empire. The US did it with Guam, American Samoa, PR, and pretty much taken their little slice of Japan and South Korea.

Soviet Union did alot of annexing as well, and the Western alliance in general pretty much added Israel as their Middle East outpost. That was the intent.

Fact of the matter is, the land that was annexed had an extremely oppressed population, treated even worse than the American slaves of old. The Dalai Lama at the time was defending the right to keep that inhumane rule. fifty years have gone by, I dont believe he supports that same line of rule as he did when he first was exiled, as time doth change a mans wisdom.

However Tibet is quite well off, but lettign them go is akin to allowing Puerto Rico to cede from American rule. Of course most probably would not care seeing as the majority speak a diff language there.

But in any case, you will be hard pressed to see the US government let go of any of their territories they aqcuired after WW2, especially if they have invested much in developing the infrastructure and imporving the humans rights conditions in relation to what they were.

I mean if we were to Demand that China cede Tibet, than they would have every right and justification to request all American Pacific and European bases cede from the acquired territories as well.

I dont see that happening do you? Because essentially any country with an American miltiary presence is under American political influence.

Originally posted by DYepes
Fact of the matter is, the land that was annexed had an extremely oppressed population, treated even worse than the American slaves of old.

Wow, that is just an incredibly bold statement. I would love to know where you obtained the information for this pearl of wisdom.

I don't believe Frank was giving incorrect information at all, It does sound a bit like the paternalism defence that was bandied about.

To the two Chinese posters who are trying to defame the Dalai Lama by pointing out that he is the leader of a torturous regime I ask you this:

Why is i that you are so concerned with this other nations use of torture and abuse when you own country is well known to act in the same manner?

Link 1

Link 2

Link 3

Link 4 (China Tortures Tibetans)

Link 5

Link 6

Link 7

Link 8

Link 9

Link 10

This list of ten links is just a quick sample of information on Torture, Slave Labor, Child Labor, and Humans Rights Abuses in China. I am curious why a Chinese citizen would be so concerned over another nations issues with abuse when there is so much abuse taking place in China?

It is a wonderful thing to be a 'good neighbor' and help out others in need but somehow overlooking the abuses in ones own country and focusing on another's makes little sense to me. Perhaps the two Chinese citizens in this thread could explain to me and the ATS users why they are choosing to focus on Tibet rather than on China.

reply to post by haidian


If you'd done your research you'd know the Dalai Lama is not pressing for the old system, but a new one, where the monks (including himself) have no power.