Russia/Georgia Situation News & Updates

reply to post by maloy

NATO may already view Ukraine as a member of the alliance, even if it is technically not one.

Now that is interesting.

They're possibly going to apply the 'article 5' rule to Ukraine (the next flashpoint in mind), despite the fact it's not actually a NATO member? Cheney's trip was more fruitful than first thought.

OK, then... so why not just scrap the whole troublesome thing and have a de facto alliance?

[edit on 12-9-2008 by chips]

news.bbc.co.uk...
LATEST: Russian troops begin withdrawal from Georgian port of Poti, reports say.
From external source:
A column of trucks, soldiers and armoured vehicles left the town, apparently heading towards Abkhazia, one of Georgia's pro-Russian regions.

[edit on 12-9-2008 by all2human]

Pentagon team to assess Georgia's military needs

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — In a delicate mission, a U.S. Defense Department team is coming to assess Georgia's military needs after its war with Russia, a show of support that is certain to stoke Moscow's anger.

American help in rebuilding Georgia's armed forces, regardless of the scale, could harden lines in the standoff between Moscow and Washington over the future of this pro-Western nation that straddles a key pipeline route from the oil fields of Central Asia.

If Russia controls Abkhazia and South Ossetia "and leaves significant forces there, a Georgian incursion into either of those areas would become militarily unthinkable," Robert Hamilton, a defense analyst and regional expert at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, wrote last week.

He said that would leave Georgia's armed forces with the job of protecting the territory under its control, "a mission that they are certainly capable of fulfilling if the U.S. assists."

(AP)

reply to post by chips



As far as I'm aware, article 5 only applies to current members of NATO.

Article 5 does not imply a military response, but calls for a response from other NATO members, ie. political, military and/or economical.

Sofar neither Georgia and the Ukraine are NATO members and I doubt that the allience will let them become members in the current situation, as that will pose a risk. Especialy with Georgia.

reply to post by -Rugged Shark-


Morning.

As far as I'm aware, article 5 only applies to current members of NATO.

Yes, Rugged, I know. But if, as Maloy's news report indicates, NATO are possibly going to view Ukraine as a de facto member of the alliance, then how do we know they won't invoke 'article 5' for it, too? As Maloy has said, it looks as though the U.S. and NATO are trying to underscore Ukraine's territorial integrity — by viewing it as an 'unofficial' member.

Sofar neither Georgia and the Ukraine are NATO members and I doubt that the allience will let them become members in the current situation, as that will pose a risk. Especialy with Georgia.

The United Kingdom, the U.S., France and Germany (off the top of my head) have all said they want Georgia to become part of NATO, despite what has happened with Russia. I don't know if that will actually come to fruition or not, though.

So....

50-60 Tons Of Uranium Disappears From Isfahan Nuclear Complex

Nuclear experts responsible for monitoring Iran’s nuclear program have discovered that enough enriched uranium, which if processed to weapons grade level could be used to make up to six atom bombs, has disappeared from the main production facility at Isfahan, The Daily Telegraph newspaper said.

By conducting a careful study of the amount of material stored at Isfahan, and the amount of “yellow cake” known to have been processed at the plant, nuclear experts believe between 50-60 tons of uranium, which if enriched to weapons grade level would be sufficient to produce five or six atom bombs, has gone missing from the plant.

IAEA officials believe the Iranians have deliberately removed the uranium at a stage in the production process that is not under their supervision.
A nuclear official said, “If Iran’s nuclear intentions are peaceful, then why are they doing this?”

Source


[edit on 13-9-2008 by MatrixBaller04]

reply to post by MatrixBaller04


Yeah, I posted that a few hours ago in another thread, Matrix (the one about the U.S.'s refusal to give Israel 'bunker-buster' bombs).

The IAEA is to give a new report on Monday about Iran's nuclear program. Israel will be watching intently.

Saturday, September 13, 2008

US missile shield, 'star wars on earth'

Iran's Foreign Minister says Washington's missile shield project is a realization of star wars on earth which is aimed to confine Russia.

"The US missile shield is aimed at bringing Russia under control," Manouchehr Mottaki said in a meeting with his Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov in Moscow Friday.

The Iranian senior official described cooperation among the nations as the best way to thwart the 'conspiracy of crisis' in the region.

Lavrov for his part maintained that the US missile shield is aimed to contain Russia's power, saying Moscow is ready to expand "security cooperation" with Iran and with countries in the Caucasus region to restore regional stability and tranquility.

"In addition to regional cooperation, dialogue with Europe can also be put on the agenda because of its potential and promises to establish stability and peace in the Caucasus region," the Iranian minister continued.

Georgia launched a large-scale attack against South Ossetia last month, triggering a conflict which prompted Russia to send armed convoys and military combat aircraft to the breakaway region to protect South Ossetians, most of whom have Russian citizenship.

Georgia's military intervention in the region resulted in the killing of Russian peacekeepers and dozens of civilians, according to the Kremlin.

Relations between Russia and the West have slumped to a tense post-Cold War low, particularly after the US sent its warships to the Black Sea to send what it calls humanitarian aid to Georgians.

Russia which blames the US for orchestrating the crisis in its backyard responded with similar measures.

On November 10-14, four Russian ships and 1,000 soldiers will hold joint military maneuvers with Venezuelan aircraft and submarines in the Caribean Sea.

The four ships will include the Peter the Great nuclear-powered guided missile cruiser and the Admiral Chabanenko anti-submarine ship, Nesterenko told a briefing in Moscow.

"The exercises will not be targeted against any third party," Russian Foreign Ministry spokesman Andrei Nesterenko said.

Russia has also announced that the country is renovating the Syrian port of Tartus permitting Moscow to develop and enlarge the port for a naval presence in the Mediterranean.

On Friday, Russian president Dmitry Medvedev compared the invasion of South Ossetia by Georgia to the 9/11 terrorist attacks on the United States.

"For Russia, August 8, 2008 was almost like September 11, 2001 in the United States."

"The world changed almost immediately," Medvedev added suggesting that the backwash of the short-lived armed conflict has a long way to go.

(Press TV)

[edit on 13-9-2008 by chips]

[edit on 13-9-2008 by chips]

So much for the "RUSSIAN INVASION OF GEORGIA". Georgian sources confirm that Russian troops are moving out of all positions in and around Poti, exactly on schedule.

Russia now says that the rest of the buffer zone (undisputed Georgian territory with Russian checkpoints) will be cleared out by October 11, pending on the arrival of UN observers.

news.yahoo.com...



I am so sorry for all the "Russia is trying to rebuild the Soviet Empire" and "Russia invaded Georgia" fanboys. Their dreams of Russia living up to its expectations as a big bad commie fell through. But don't worry - you can all still say that Russia invaded 1/10 of Georgia for an entire month.

Georgia: Russia meets partial pullout deadline; West says Russian troop numbers would violate ceasefire provision

TBILISI, Georgia (AP) — A Georgian official says Russia has fulfilled its commitment to withdraw forces from several positions in western Georgia.

Security Council chief Alexander Lomaia said the Russians pulled out of posts in the Black Sea port of Poti and other areas nearby on Saturday.

Lomaia said an estimated 250 soldiers and more than 20 armored vehicles pulled out and headed to the separatist Abkhazia province.

Russia had promises to withdraw from the positions by this coming Monday under an agreement reached with French President Nicolas Sarkozy last week.

Russia is to withdraw all its forces from Georgian territory outside Abkhazia and separatist South Ossetia by next month.

Lomaia said Russia still has some 1,200 soldiers on Georgian territory outside the separatist regions.

(AP)


Diplomat: Talks with Russia on monitors collapse

Diplomat: Talks with Russia on monitors collapse

A senior Western diplomat said talks with Russia have collapsed on the sensitive issue of sending additional international monitors to two breakaway regions.

The official said that Moscow refused to approve 80 extra military monitors from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe to keep tabs on South Ossetia and Abkhazia. (AP)

(ynetnews.com)

NATO's Georgia hesitation emboldened Russia-Canada

NATO's hesitation at its April summit to integrate Georgia and Ukraine into the alliance only emboldened Russia to invade Georgia last month, Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper said in an interview published on Saturday.

"I think if we had taken a stronger position on the membership of these countries, we would not have had the Russian aggression," he told the National Post newspaper.

"I think that showing weakness or hesitation encourages this type of behavior on the part of Russia."

Harper expressed respect for Russia but said whether or not countries join NATO was a decision between the alliance and that country.

"Russia does not have a right to dictate decisions outside its own borders," the Conservative prime minister said.

Canada and the United States had been among those at the Bucharest summit in April advocating offering a membership action plan to Ukraine and Georgia, but they met opposition led by Germany and France.

In the end the NATO summit promised the two countries they could join in the future but the timing was left indefinite.

Russia sent forces into Georgia in August after repelling an attempt by Tbilisi to retake the breakaway, pro-Russian South Ossetia region

Reuters Alertnet

Harper should STFU.

I'm a canadian and I'm disgusted by my prime minister comments.

Russia's AGRESSION? ARE YOU KIDDING?

One more reason why I won't vote for that Bilderberg whore.

"Russia does not have a right to dictate decisions outside its own borders," the Conservative prime minister said.

Yeah? What the hell is NATO doing since at least 90?

Harper. STFU. You're a disgrace.

Just want to say thanks to everyone keeping this thread up-to-date. I don't post here much but I check this thread every day.

Amid all of the articles focusing on the current events, I wanted to take a step back, regain focus and try to look at how this would affect geopolitics in the long run. So here's an interesting analysis by George Friedman, founder of intelligence agency Stratfor. It talks about the long-term repercussions of the five-day war. For those who don't care for reading, in short, Russian foreign policy has successfully "backed the Americans into a corner," and Europeans "have even fewer options."

Georgia and the Balance of Power

The Russian invasion of Georgia has not changed the balance of power in Eurasia. It has simply announced that the balance of power had already shifted. The United States has been absorbed in its wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as potential conflict with Iran and a destabilizing situation in Pakistan. It has no strategic ground forces in reserve and is in no position to intervene on the Russian periphery. This has opened an opportunity for the Russians to reassert their influence in the former Soviet sphere. Moscow did not have to concern itself with the potential response of the United States or Europe; hence, the balance of power had already shifted, and it was up to the Russians when to make this public. They did that on August 8.

[edit on 9/13/2008 by The Crow]

US Congressman defends Russia in Georgia conflict

A conservative Republican congressman is siding with Russia in its invasion of and brief war with Georgia, putting himself at odds with the Bush administration and lawmakers of both parties.

"The Russians were right; we're wrong," Rep. Dana Rohrabacher said this week at a hearing of the House of Representatives Foreign Affairs Committee.

"The Georgians started it; the Russians ended it," he said.

Rohrabacher claimed that unidentified intelligence sources had assured him that Georgia started the fighting that began Aug. 7 when Georgia's military tried to re-establish control over its breakaway, pro-Russian province of South Ossetia.

...

"The Georgians broke the truce, not the Russians, and no amount of talk of provocation and all this other stuff can alter that fact," he said.

Rohrabacher is known for taking contrarian stands on foreign affairs and other issues and has clashed with the Bush administration in the past. His comments got little attention in the United States but have been played prominently on state-run Russian television newscasts and other media.

www.iht.com...


Wow someone in U.S. Congress actually knows about the War in South Ossetia and how it started. And here I thought all the little doggies bark in one voice when it comes to big bad commies.

Yes, I saw that on TV. There's at least one free-thinker amongst them, then.


With the breaking news that the U.S is to sell new 'bunker-buster' bombs to Israel now, what steps (if any) do you think Russia would take in the event of an attack upon Iran, Maloy? Bearing in mind that Medvedev said yesterday that an attack upon the Islamic Republic would be 'unacceptable.'

reply to post by chips


Well I for one refuse to believe that an attack on Iran will occur any time soon. If U.S. or Israel bomb Iran (and talk of an outright invasion should be ignored - it is not possible), they will have much bigger things to worry about that Russia's view. Iran will create an insurgency nightmare in Iraq and Afghanistan.

As for Russia - Russia will could very well break off all diplomatic ties with U.S., sever relations and all cooperative treaties. Russia would then likely accelerate the completion of Iran's nuclear program (presuming that it won't be completely wiped out by an attack), and will sell Iran as many S-300 and possibly even S-400 systems and other weaponry as Iran can pay for.

I can guarantee though - that Russia will not get militarily involved in Iran itself under any circumstances. Nor will it give Iran armament for free. But it will sell Iran some of the newest weapons, in the interest of testing their effectiveness against the U.S. assets in Iraq and the Persian Gulf.



But again - I choose to ignore rumors of an attack on Iran. It is simply incomprehensible how U.S. or Israel plan to get away with it without some major consequences.

reply to post by maloy


Thanks for your opinion.

I agree. Crazy. An idea that should've been well and truly confined to the growing Scrapheap of Incomprehensibly Stupid Ideas™ a long time ago.


Ukraine major arms supplier to Georgia - Russia's military

MOSCOW, September 13 (RIA Novosti) - Ukraine was the leading arms supplier to Georgia prior to its conflict with Russia over South Ossetia last month, the deputy chief of Russia's General Staff told an international forum on Saturday.

"Ukraine is the leader of supplies, univocally and unconditionally, as regards the volume of weapons provided to Georgia," Anatoly Nogovitsyn told the participants in the annual Valdai International Discussion Club meeting.

Russia previously condemned the U.S. for supplying arms to Georgia before and during the five-day operation "to force Georgia to peace" including by shipments claimed to be purely humanitarian.

"The fact that the Georgian army had been armed by our American partners is already undisputable, nobody even tries to challenge it," Russia's prime minister Vladimir Putin said in an interview with French Le Figaro on Saturday.

This year, the Valdai Club discusses the 21st century international geopolitical revolution and Russia's role in it. The discussions are organized by RIA Novosti, the Foreign and Defense Policy Council, The Moscow News paper, and the Russia in Global Affairs and Russia Profile magazines.

Around 80 political scientists, experts and journalists from Russia, the United States, Britain, Germany, France, Switzerland and other countries are taking part.

(RIA Novosti)

It is however a little worrisome that a lot of Iran's nuclear"yellowcake" has gone missing from their program ,50-60 tons!

www.iranfocus.com...
I see Timoshenko had a nice little visit from Cheney
Georgia already in NATO?


[edit on 13-9-2008 by all2human]

Originally posted by all2human

I see Timoshenko had a nice little visit from Cheney

Yup, and I posted a picture of them as the last post on the previous page. Here.

Regarding Timoshenko - I wouldn't be surprised at this point if she suddenly switches sides again. She has been relatively quiet since that hearing with the Ukrainian Federal prosecutor on September 11. Perhaps she has reached an agreement with Yuschenko's administration (sort of a non-compete policy).