Russia/Georgia Situation News & Updates

Originally posted by primamateria
This may be slightly off topic but has anyone noticed how many plane crashes have happened lately? I was thinking this over the last couple of days and wondering if any of them might be the result of covert actions. Then I found a story that claimed that the plane that crashed in Iran had a stack of engineers and scientists on board. When I clicked on the link to the full story all I got was an internet explorer cannot load page error. Has anyone else seen this story and if so, could they post a working link. Again sorry if off topic but didn't know where else to report this.

Actually I found another link here

www.cbsnews.com...

This story says the plane was ful;l of Iranian journalists on the way to cover some military exercises but I'll keep looking for the other story that claims they were engineers and scientists.

[edit on 2008-8-28 by primamateria]

Wonder if this is what you were looking for?

Mirror of the World (Russia) ^ | 26.08.2008 | Bulov

Posted on August-26-08 4:25:28 PM by E. Pluribus Unum

MOSCOW, August 25 - Russian President Dmitry Medvedev on Monday sent a message of condolences to Kyrgyz President Kurmanbek Bakiyev in connection with the crash of a Boeing-737 plane at Bishkek’s international airport Manas, the Kremlin press service reported.

The Boeing, belonging to Kyrgyz Itek Air carrier, was on a fight from Bishkek to Tehran. It took off from Manas at 18:30, Moscow time, on Sunday and several minutes later requested an emergency landing. However, it failed to reach the airport and went down five kilometres away from the landing strip, near the settlement of Dzhany-Dzher.

According to official reports, there were 90 passengers and crew on board the plane. Sixty-five bodies have been found at the site of the crash. The Kyrgyz government has set up a commission to look into the plane crash.

The jet was on its way to Tehran, the Iranian capital. Among those on board were 44 Iranian Scientists and Engineers.

44 Iranian Scientists and Engineers were on board Kyrgyz 737 [unconfirmed]

But then again.. it's unconfirmed....

Edit to include..

According to that link you provided. .. The 44 is referring to a crash in 2002 not 2008. Someone in the media got their time-line mixed up perhaps?

Here's the info on the crash for the 2002.


Plane Crash in Iran Kills 46, Mostly Ukrainians and Russians

This article says 46 died.. not 44.. and there are 42 passangers... one would not include another two from the crew to make up the balance to have 44 scientist and engineers dead...

So was there 44 that died recently whom may have been scientists and engineers, which is beeing hidden from the pupulace? Or are we looking at poor reporting?


[edit on 28-8-2008 by Willbert]

Wanted to point out that that link you provided is about a crash in 2005????

Plane Crash Kills 115 In Iran
Plane Loaded With Journalists Slams Into 10-Story Apartment Building

TEHRAN, Iran, Dec. 6, 2005

Source

So basically that link is redundant.. other then the fact it's death toll at the end for 2002 is differant then the source I provided above..

In 2002, a Ukrainian-built aircraft carrying aerospace scientists crashed in central Iran, killing all 44 people aboard. And in 1988, an Iran Air A300 Airbus was shot down by the USS Vincennes over the Persian Gulf, killing 290.

My source says 46 died in that year... hmmmm.....

[edit on 28-8-2008 by Willbert]

double post...

[edit on 28-8-2008 by Willbert]

Russia says Georgian airspace too dangerous for airlines

The head of Russia's air navigation service recommended Thursday that Russian air carriers avoid Georgian airspace, which he said was too dangerous for civilian flights.

"Georgian airspace now poses a threat to the flights of civilian airplanes," Russia's Transport Ministry quoted Alexander Neradko as saying.

RIA Novosti

Russia avoids pressuring states to recognize Abkhazia, S.Ossetia

Russia's foreign minister said on Thursday that his country has no intention of pressuring other states to follow Moscow's lead and recognize Georgia's rebel regions as independent countries.

"Unlike some of our major Western partners, we prefer every country to think for itself," he said.

RIA Novosti

Some very interesting developments today already.

The U.S. changed its mind about Cutter Dallas; do you think Mount Whitney could be headed for Poti? That would be a pretty aggressive move, though, obviously.

(AP)

[edit on 28-8-2008 by chips]

Originally posted by chips
Some very interesting developments today already.

The U.S. changed its mind about Cutter Dallas; do you think Mount Whitney could be headed for Poti? That would be a pretty aggressive move, though, obviously.

(AP)

[edit on 28-8-2008 by chips]

Well if they are heading there (Poti), they have already told the Russians.

"The Russians have been informed along the way about our activities and our intentions," Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said.

Do you really think they are disclosing all activities?

Taken from your source.

[edit on 28-8-2008 by Denied]

reply to post by Gun Totin Gerbil
Interesting article,no offence but i would be more inclined to believe carrots talk than to give myself to that fiction,for this crisis, Russia and NATO need an "out", The EU and UN are entering the fray.This has become a spitting contest that i am confident for now,will be just that .


[edit on 28-8-2008 by all2human]

reply to post by Denied


The article was written nearly a week ago; things have perhaps gotten a bit more heated since then.

As far as letting the Russians know what the plans are, though: they probably just said they were bringing 'humanitarian aid.' Would the U.S. have told Russia what specific ports they were going to dock at? Doubtful; Cutter Dallas was initially going to dock at Poti but changed to Batumi at the last minute - so even the U.S. wasn't sure until the the final decision.

Breaking:

Belarus may recognise Georgian break-away regions soon, according to Russian news agency.

- Sky TV (Reuters)

Originally posted by chips
reply to post by Denied

 

The article was written nearly a week ago; things have perhaps gotten a bit more heated since then.

As far as letting the Russians know what the plans are, though: they probably just said they were bringing 'humanitarian aid.' Would the U.S. have told Russia what specific ports they were going to dock at? Doubtful; Cutter Dallas was initially going to dock at Poti but changed to Batumi at the last minute - so even the U.S. wasn't sure until the the final decision.

Or they were sure were they were going to dock, and "lied", so as to see how Russia would respond and also monitor their troop movements.

reply to post by Willbert


Yeah, or even that, too.

Heck, there could be any number of possibilities!

I'm sure we'll get to the bottom of it, though.

WHITE HOUSE: SCRAPPING U.S.-RUSSIA CIVIL NUCLEAR DEAL UNDER DISCUSSION

(AlertNet)

Breaking:

AP - Vladimir Putin: The U.S. pushed Georgia to war.

- Sky TV (Russian news agency)

AFP: President Bush has freed up to $5.75M for Georgia aid.

[edit on 28-8-2008 by chips]

[edit on 28-8-2008 by chips]

I hope that the humanitarian aid is more than this.


Source

Unless they are trying to force a change of the tide.

reply to post by chips


More here:

Putin says US was behind conflict BBC

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has accused the US of orchestrating the conflict in Georgia, possibly for domestic election purposes.

Mr Putin told CNN US citizens were "in the area" during the conflict over South Ossetia and were "taking direct orders from their leaders".

Slowly ratcheting up....

reply to post by Regenmacher


Thanks for that link. This is breaking:

GEORGIAN PARLIAMENT APPROVES RESOLUTION URGING GOVERNMENT TO CUT DIPLOMATIC TIES WITH RUSSIA

(AlertNet)

[edit on 28-8-2008 by chips]

Russia accuses Georgia of endangering airliners

MOSCOW, Aug 28 (Reuters) - Russia's air traffic chief accused Georgian air controllers on Thursday of threatening the safety of Russian civil aircraft by suddenly diverting some planes trying to enter Georgian air space.

"The air space of Georgia represents a particular danger to civil aviation flights," Alexander Neradko, the head of Russia's Federal Air Navigation Service (Rosnavigatsisya), said in a statement released by his agency.

He said Georgian air controllers had forced several Russian and Belarussian flights to change their routes without prior notification just as they were about to enter Georgian air space.

"Rosnavigatsisya repeats its strong recommendation that Russian airlines should not use Georgian airspace for flights, but use alternative routes," Neradko said.

Direct air links between Russia and Georgia were suspended at the start of the conflict between the two countries in South Ossetia earlier this month.

Georgian air traffic officials were not immediately available for comment.

(AlertNet)

Originally posted by Mammoth

DUSHANBE (AFP) - President Dmitry Medvedev said Thursday that Russia had "united" support from China and Central Asian allies for its actions in Georgia and said it should send a "serious signal" to the West.

"I am sure that the united position of the SCO member states will have international resonance," Medvedev said at a summit of the Shanghai Cooperation Council (SCO), grouping Russia, China and four ex-Soviet Central Asian states.

Russia gathers SCO Support

Medvedev has succeeded in gathering support from SCO on this matter, are SCO/NATO going into a standoff?

I noticed this earlier it seemed like they had their backing, but i dont know if its been noted yet, but they dont back Russia's decision, recognising the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia.

Earlier on Thursday Russia failed to get strong backing from its Asian allies over the Georgia conflict.

The Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO), comprising Russia, China and Central Asian nations, met in Dushanbe, Tajikistan, and spoke of its deep concern.

The group did not follow Russia in recognising the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev insisted he had the backing of the nations over Moscow's actions.

Source.

Yup. China doesnt seem too thrilled with what Russia has done:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

BEIJING, Aug 28 (Reuters) - China said it was "concerned" about Russia's volatile quarrel with Georgia after Moscow recognised the disputed regions of South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent entities.

By recognizing South Ossetia and Abkhazia, Russia may have inadvertently rubbed China the wrong way, especially considering China's feelings about the "breakaway province" of Taiwan.

An alternative view on the much-cited Georgia/Kosovo comparison:

South Ossetia Isn't Kosovo

Whatever Moscow says, there are at least six significant differences between the two situations.

By Christopher Hitchens

While it is almost certainly true that Moscow's action in the Ossetian and (for good measure) the Abkhazian enclave of Georgia has been, in a real sense, the revenge for the independence of Kosovo (on Feb. 14 Vladimir Putin said publicly that Western recognition of Kosovar independence would be met by intensified Russian support for irredentism in South Ossetia), it is extremely important to bear in mind that this observation does not permit us the moral sloth of allowing any equivalence between the two dramas.

Perhaps one could mention just some of the more salient differences?

1. Russia had never expressed any interest in Ossetian or Abkhazian micronationalisms, while Georgia was an integral part of the Soviet Union. It is thus impossible to avoid the suspicion that these small peoples are being used as "strategic minorities" to negate the independence of the larger Georgian republic and to warn all those with pro-Russian populations on their soil of what may, in turn, befall them. This is like nothing so much as Turkish imperialism in Cyprus and Thrace and Iraq, where local minorities can be turned on and off like a faucet according to the needs of the local superpower.

2. Kosovo, which was legally part of Yugoslavia but not of Serbia was never manipulated as part of the partition or intervention plan of another country—the United States, in fact, spent far too long on the pretense that the Yugoslav federation could be saved—and, for a lengthy period, pursued its majority-rule claims by passive resistance and other nonviolent means. NATO intervention occurred only when Serbian forces had resorted to mass deportation and full-dress ethnic "cleansing." Whatever may be said of Georgia's incautious policy toward secessionism within its own internationally recognized borders, it does not deserve comparison with the lawless and criminal behavior of the Slobodan Milosevic regime. And in any case, it is unwise for Moscow to be making the analogy, since it supported Milosevic at the time and has excused him since on the less-than-adorable grounds (barely even disguised in Russian propaganda) of Christian Orthodox solidarity. It also armed and incited the most extreme and least pacifist forces in Ossetia and Abkhazia.

3. Does anybody remember the speeches in which the Russian ambassador to the United Nations asked the General Assembly or Security Council to endorse his country's plan to send land, air, and sea forces deep into the territory and waters of a former colony that is now a U.N. member state? I thought not. I look at the newspaper editorials every day, waiting to see who will be the first to use the word unilateral in the same sentence as the name Russia. Nothing so far. Yet U.N. Resolution 1441, warning Saddam Hussein of serious consequences, was the fruit of years of thwarted diplomacy and was passed without a dissenting vote.

4. The six former constituent republics of Yugoslavia, which all exercised their pre-existing constitutional right to secede from rule by Belgrade, are seated as members of the United Nations, as, indeed, is Georgia. Twenty out of 27 states of the European Union have also recognized the government of Kosovo as an entity de jure as well as de facto. The Kosovar population is estimated at 1.8 million, which makes it larger than that of some existing E.U. member states. Does anyone seriously imagine that Russia ever even remotely intends to sponsor any statehood claims for the tiny local populations of Ossetia and Abkhazia? On the contrary, these peoples will be reassimilated into the Russian empire. So any comparison with Kosovo would have to be not to its breaking away but to its potential absorption and annexation by Albania. And nobody has even proposed this, let alone countenanced the unilateral stationing of Albanian armed forces on Kosovar soil.

5. Heartbreakingly difficult though the task has been, and remains, the whole emphasis of Western policy in the Balkans has been on de-emphasizing ethnic divisions; subsidizing cities and communities that practice reconciliation; and encouraging, for example, Serbs and Albanians to cooperate in Kosovo. One need not romanticize this policy, but it would nonetheless stand up to any comparison with Russian behavior in the Caucasus (and indeed the Balkans), which is explicitly based on an outright appeal to sectarianism, nationalism, and—even worse—confessionalism.

6. The fans of moral equivalence may or may not have noticed this, but the obviously long-meditated and coordinated Russian military intervention in Georgia comes in the same month as explicit threats to the sovereignty of Poland and Ukraine, and hard on the heels of a Russian obstruction of any U.N. action in the case of Zimbabwe. Those who like to describe Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and President Dmitry Medvedev as reacting to an "encirclement" of Russia may wish to spill some geopolitical ink on explaining how Kosovo forms part of this menacing ring of steel—or how the repression of the people of Zimbabwe can assist in Moscow's breakout strategy from it.

If it matters, I agree with the critics who say that the Bush administration garnered the worst of both worlds by giving the Georgians the impression of U.S. support and then defaulting at the push-comes-to-shove moment. The Clintonoids made exactly that mistake with Serbian aggression a decade and more ago, giving the Bosnians hope and then letting them be slaughtered until the position became untenable—and then astoundingly, and even after the Dayton Accords, repeating the same series of dithering errors in the case of Kosovo. The longer the moment of truth was postponed, the worse things became. But this in itself argues quite convincingly that there was no deliberate imperial design involved. Will anyone say the same about Putin's undisguised plan for the forcible restoration of Russian hegemony all around his empire's periphery? It would be nice to think that there was a consistent response to this from Washington, but I would not even bet someone else's house on the idea, which is what President Bush has given the strong impression of doing in the low farce and frivolity of the last two weeks.

(slate.com)

[edit on 28-8-2008 by chips]

Asian alliance rebuffs Russian plea for support

news.yahoo.com...

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev had appealed to the Asian alliance, which is made up of China, Russia and four ex-Soviet Central Asian nations, for unanimous support of Moscow's response to Georgia's "aggression." But the alliance, which was created in 2001 to improve regional coordination on terrorism and border security, opted to take a neutral position and urged all sides to resolve the conflict through "peaceful dialogue." "The participants ... underscore the need for respect of the historical and cultural traditions of each country and each people, and for efforts aimed at preserving the unity of the state and its territorial integrity," the alliance's statement said.