An Attempt to Debunk Chemtrails For Good

reply to post by Swingarm


Hey Swingarm. I've got some more proof for you.

Project SHAD - More evidence of Love by Government?

Once again, the US government proves that it is more horrible than our nightmares.

reply to post by weedwhacker

I have also brought in information about a website (and someone else did, too) called FlightAware.....guess no one bothers to check it out. Rather, just believe in 'chemtrails', don't let facts get in the way!

Thats all fine and well, but this does not track military or "other" aircraft.

End of discussion, Mods, when they have time, may decide.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Does this mean your not coming back?

reply to post by Swingarm


I think it means he has gone to get the mods for back-up.

-His flawed argument having clearly been dealt a series of crushing blows by yourself and others....


I already have him and Oz and essan on ignore - This thread is far more concise - and half as long.


The government always tells you how they are going to kill you, as do the NWO. It is some kind of rule, either that or they are bragging

[edit on 26-8-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by TruthTellist


Thanks TruthTellist, Very interesting indeed. We have reached the point where we are at same status as military men now,( we are owned) they are not asking for volunteers anymore either we're way past that.



[edit on 26-8-2008 by Swingarm]

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Swingarm]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Swingarm

 

I have also brought in information about a website (and someone else did, too) called FlightAware.....guess no one bothers to check it out. Rather, just believe in 'chemtrails', don't let facts get in the way!

That was me who "also brought it up" You once again took me out of context and deflected my post.

Why, because flight aware does not show the spray planes as flights. You state radar not picking them up because of slightly varying flight paths. Radar does not discriminate deviations of such a small proportion last time I checked.
You might want to inform the military's of the world of this new found flaw in the tried and true system!

This is because they are more then likely Gov/NATO aircraft. As I have always stated commercial aircraft are not the cause of these trails. At most maybe one (USAir) might have struck a deal for subsidies to partially "fill the gaps" due to a tanker shortage. Since the bid wars went wrong on the next batch they may be delayed.

Ever ask yourself why we need so many "refueling tankers" stationed in the US lol?

Who and what are you guys protecting? These tankers are surely being used for weather modification purposes. Anything else is up in the air for me.

I also have a feeling they are being used to warm the planet. I firmly believe the carbon tax is going to be used to fund the expansion of the One Gov't order.

Futures are already trading on the mercantile exchange. This like everything else occurring is a poorly written script to anyone that can think for themselves and has any form of self/environmental awareness.

UB

I also have a feeling they are being used to warm the planet. I firmly believe the carbon tax is going to be used to fund the expansion of the One Gov't order.

reply to post by utmostbastard


www.youtube.com...

reply to post by Swingarm


NO, Swingarm....it means I will look in from time to time in case the 'believers' ever present real facts, or just keep 'high-fiving' each other.

Mods can read too, they don't need to be "notified" of anything.

Bad science is bad science. An earnest attempt to refute, educate, and deny ignorance is met instead with sneers and ridicule.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Again I have to tell you: this is not about belief, it is not that wishy washy. People KNOW. Chemtrails will not be debunked, because they are a real human endeavour that needs to be dragged, kicking and screaming into the light so it can get further spread into the group mind and the inbalance of human behaviour is corrected.

Keep your science unless it is truthfull. I'm fed up of reading psuedo science and arguments of authority trying to tell me the sky, above the chemtrails, isn't blue.

Originally posted by Zepherian
Keep your science unless it is truthfull. I'm fed up of reading psuedo science and arguments of authority trying to tell me the sky, above the chemtrails, isn't blue.

Since when has meteorology been pseudo science?

The only pseudo science is provided by people that have no knowledge of meteorology, physics or chemistry

If you dont believe it, either try to disprove all these known sciences or put your gas mask back on

This is a little bit like a "He said/She said" argument, at this point.

reply to post by weedwhacker


It's been that way all along Weedwacker. Neither side of this argument has the proof definitively. This has been realized several times in this thread. This is a very complicated issue. It's hard to gather chemtrail/contrail samples.
It's counter productive for you to announce that since your a pilot your perspective trumps non pilots. As a pilot your in no position to comment on the composition of these trails. You yourself have admitted that the military may be spraying. Most of us here will concede the likelihood of commercial jets spraying is remote. However joint use airports may have the potential to be guilty of commercial spraying. You can't tell me thats not the case no matter how "in the know" you believe you are. The title of this thread was provocative and the results were to be expected. It's enjoyable non the less and many good points have been raised on both sides of this issue.
I look at this issue as very real. I'm a conspiracy theorist. I've come to realize there are no shortage of proven conspiracies that have not reached the mainstream. Why? because there will never be coverage by mainstream media simple as that. Look at at your own fiat currency printed by the private federal reserve. There is nothing federal about it. The fractional reserve banking system is a fraudulent cartel. Yet we can't even make that public. People keep making there livings and don't know or don't care what is happening around them.
Look at America it's a mess. It is a nothing more than a British owned corporation. You yourself have been changed from a god created human individual into a corporate entity a "person"via your statutes implemented by the puppets. Dose anyone do anything about this? A very small percentage fight the fight some win, does it make the papers ? Nope. The elite of this world are closing off the wilderness to human beings. Spend some time, understand the UN's agenda 21, look into what sustainable development really means. When you start seeing how deep this lie goes you will have no trouble understanding why chemtrails are a reality. There is a war on against the human race. You are not (as far as I know) on the winning side of this equation. You and I fall into the useless eaters category.

reply to post by Swingarm


Swing, I am not on a "losing" side.

Meteorologists who look at the sky for a living know better. pilots understand the dynamics and physics as well. What we have is a 'chicken little' reaction which, as far as my research seems to show, came about sometime in the 1990s.

Co-incidentally, that's about when the Internet began to grow more and more....hence, one person's amateur 'theory', once blogged, spread like wildfire. Added to the mix, the likes of a fellow like Art Bell, with his AM radio show....the concept exploded.

Ya wanna talk 'pseudo-science'?? Well, that's a superb example of what happened in the 'chemtrail community'.

Now, instead of repeatedly relating eyewitness accounts from amateurs....who 'think' they see something, but don't take the time to study deeply, scientifically...try doing what I just typed.

You could start, simply, by taking a course or two in meteorology. At least then, you'd have a better foundation to begin to state your case.

You see?

EDIT - An after though: I've been unscientifically looking at the skies where I live for the last several weeks. By unscientifically, I mean I am not noting down exact dates and times and directions....it is a casual observation. Most days, I see the typical contrail form, and sublimate/evaporte fairly quickly. Sometimes I see a few contrails that linger, and spread a little...then disappear. Today, they lingered long, and in the afternoon were joined by conventionally formed cirrus...as a front approached our area. So, what I've been trying to say all along is, you have to see the whole picture, and research and document thoroughly, to be taken seriously.

[edit on 8/26/0808 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by OzWeatherman


Oh my friend, it's not field that is a psuedo science, it's the people that are psuedoscientists. A real scientist has to be truthfull and consider all hypothesis. A real scientist will, in actuality, never be a debunker, because he will only study what is experimentally verfiable, not wasting time trying to prove a negative.

reply to post by weedwhacker


I don't believe that post was off topic so I will attempt it again

Swing, I am not on a "losing" side.

This clearly illustrates that you don't read posts, you skim them. I wasn't saying your on the losing side of this argument. Your more interested in conveying your pilot experience than chemtrails.

Just for clarity sake..

ANY post that discusses another member and not the topic is by definition..

OFF TOPIC

This includes snide comments about other members as well.

Terms and Conditions

1f.) Relevant Content: You will not post messages that are clearly outside of the stated topic of any forums nor disrupt a forum by deliberately posting repeated irrelevant messages or copies of identical messages (also known as "flooding").

Semper

Now, instead of repeatedly relating eyewitness accounts from amateurs....who 'think' they see something, but don't take the time to study deeply, scientifically...try doing what I just typed.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Stop painting yourself as an authority, your not, plain and simple. Chemtrails as far as I'm concerned are outside the scope of your experience and meteorology. There is a ton of ego stroking going on here that has nothing to do with chemtrails. I think it falls more in the realm of chemistry. I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is not 100% consensus among climatologists that contrails are only contrails.

“CHEMTRAILS”
AND THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT
Submission in the European Parliament of written questions on “chemtrails” by Dutch Socialist deputy Erik Meijer will be seen as a positive development by some activists. Are we witnessing the beginnings of a new phase in the years-long saga of this aerosol-spraying activity, and of the stigmatized opposition to it?. (See the present writer’s: “Climate Change Jekylls and Hydes”). Meijer’s written questions, under the heading “Aircraft condensation trails which no longer only contain water but cause persistent milky veils, possibly due to the presence of barium and aluminium”, are not the first such submission to have been tabled in a European legislature: in 2005 the Democratic Left deputies Italo Sandi and Piero Ruzzante raised similar questions in the Italian Parliament. More recently their political associates Asimina Xirotiri and Fotis Kouvelis did the same in Greece . But faced with the stereotyped and uninformative responses such questions receive from official spokespersons, the reaction of parliamentarians is to become discouraged - or at any rate inactive and inaccessible - perhaps not perceiving what they should do next and for that reason reluctant to have too much contact with citizens still pressing them for action and/or answers, whom they are obliged to confront “with empty hands”.
Objectively Erik Meijer has greater margins for action. Working inside the uncompleted institutions of the European Union, a citizen of one of the two nations that delivered the death blow to the first attempt to impose a politically unacceptable “constitution” on the European peoples, leading member of an ex-Maoist political grouping now able to field twenty-five deputies in the Dutch parliament, with one foot in such would-be institutionally pioneering milieux as the Social Forums, Meijer could take advantage of the political abdication of the European Commission, and the European political class generally, on this terrible subject. He could turn it to the benefit not only of the European Parliament but also of the citizens’ movements seeking a voice inside and outside the Social Forums. Not to mention of European integration generally. He could be a hero.
So let’s look at his questions::

10 May 2007 E-2455/07
WRITTEN QUESTION by Erik Meijer (GUE/NGL) to the Commission

Subject: Aircraft condensation trails which no longer only contain water but cause persistent milky veils, possibly due to the presence of barium, aluminium and iron
1. Is the Commission aware that, since 1999, members of the public in Canada and the USA have been complaining about the growing presence in the air of aircraft condensation trails of a new type, which sometimes persist for hours and which spread far more widely than in the past, creating milky veils which are dubbed ‘aerial obscuration’, and that the new type has particularly come to people’s attention because it is so different from the short, pencil-thin white contrails which have been a familiar sight ever since jet engines came into use and which remain visible for 20 minutes at most and can only be produced if steam condenses on dust particles due to low temperatures and high humidity?
2. Is the Commission aware that investigations by these complainants, observations by pilots and statements by government bodies increasingly suggest that what is happening is that aircraft are emitting into dry air small particles consisting of barium, aluminium and iron, a phenomenon which in public debate in America has come to be known as chemtrails?
3. Unlike contrails, chemtrails are not an inevitable by-product of modern aviation. Does the Commission know, therefore, what is the purpose of artificially emitting these Earth-derived substances into the Earth’s atmosphere? Does it help to cause rain, benefit telecommunications or combat climate change?
4. To what extent are aerial obscuration and chemtrails now also being employed in the air over Europe , bearing in mind that many people here too are now convinced that the phenomenon is becoming increasingly common and are becoming concerned about the fact that little is so far known about it and there is no public information on the subject? Who initiates this spraying and how is it funded?
5. Apart from the intended benefits of emitting substances into the air, is the Commission aware of any possible disadvantages it may have for the environment, public health, aviation and TV reception?
6. What is being done to prevent individual European states or businesses from taking measures unilaterally whose cross-border impact other States or citizens' organisations may regard as undesirable? Is coordination already taking place with regard to this? Is the EU playing a part in it, or does the Commission anticipate a future role, and what are the Commission's objectives in this connection?

www.enouranois.gr...

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Swingarm]

[edit on 26-8-2008 by Swingarm]

reply to post by Swingarm


Swing....as a person (me) with over 30 years' of flying experience, and over 20,000 hours.....no, guess I won't 'present' or 'portray' myself as an "authority"

I am not an authority, by any stretch of the imagination....but I have experience, and knowledge.

I've seen the 'chemtrail' arguments.....yet, not any person on this thread has ONCE replied to my challenge....maybe I didn't phrase it properly....or someone just 'skimmed' my post (G)

Instead of 'challenge', I just ask questions.....Who, How, Where and Why???? (the 'what' is implied)

Second question: The Earth is a very big globe. So, this entails the 'How' up above....millions and millions of square miles to cover....HOW?

Third question: Who? Well, I've that clear, it's not American Airlines, or any one else in the commercial airline biz

Fourth question: Where? This relates to the Second question....as in, Why always overland, where people can see it?? I mean, the Sun shines on a lot of the oceans too.....Why not 'spray' there????

I've pretty well covered (no pun) the questions above....

Last point to leave....

The Planet Earth is about 75% ocean. Natually, only a majority of people who live on land (or Islands...which is also land) will see these alleged 'chemtrails'

BUT....if the 'intent' is to change climate....then it would be done out of sight, over water....surely NATO or the US Military could accomplish this???

Does anyone see the illogic of this 'chemtrail' claim?