The North Side Flyover - Officially Documented, Independently Confirmed

Originally posted by nicepants
Regardless of who was responsible, the perpetrators of 9/11 are guilty of mass-murder. Would you agree?

Yes, but do not put words in my mouth that i stated it was the government, thats very immature.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by nicepants
Regardless of who was responsible, the perpetrators of 9/11 are guilty of mass-murder. Would you agree?

Yes, but do not put words in my mouth that i stated it was the government, thats very immature.

I must have mis-understood your position: who were the perpetrators?

[edit on 20-8-2008 by nicepants]

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
reply to post by emsed1

 

Think of it like this emsed1.....

Once there is evidence proving the official story false it implicates an extremely complex psychological black operation on a global scale.

It is impossible for any citizen investigator to answer all of the questions as to exactly how or who nor do we need to.

It is not our responsibility to answer these questions.

This is why we must demand congressional inquiries on a much deeper level.

We found the smoking gun proving their story false, we scientifically validated it more than 13 times over, so now we must demand investigations/inquiries/grand juries to get all of the questions that you and everyone else has answered.

I couldn't help but notice that you managed to NOT answer any of the questions that emsed1 asked. They are simple questions. Please provide simple, rhetoric-free answers.

We someone I know starts talking about this event in and mentions some conspiracy theory, I usually tell them "Well, why don't you just go and read the accounts of any one of the hundreds of eyewitnesses who saw a large passenger plane hit the Pentagon. There are plenty of them out there. Normal citizens, reporters, military people, cops, taxi drivers, whatever".

Take for example, this account.

Are you accusing all the eyewitnesses of this event of conspiring to create a mass lie? Or, do you think they are all just by coincidence suffering from the same delusion?

reply to post by billybob


Please answer these questions that are directly related to evidence. Once you (the royal you) can provide a plausible narrative to negate these questions, only then is it reasonable to entertain notions of a fly over.

Hint: conspiracies, layered upon yet more conspiracies is not a cohesive narrative. It's unfounded speculation.

(1)What happened to flight 77?
If flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon, then where is it? Where is the plane – physically? Who disposed of the aircraft? Where was it disposed? How? We are talking about 110 tons of aircraft, engines, fuel, seats, trays, avionics, luggage, etc. Where are the eyewitnesses that saw the plane physically fly over the Pentagon? Where did it land after the fly over? Were the FAA radar operators “in on it” too? Where are the airport employees who saw the 110 ton airliner land, at the undisclosed location? Were they “in on it” too, or were they killed? If so, who killed them?

(2)What happened to the passengers and crew?
Where are the passengers? Were they all “in on it”? If not, who disposed of the passengers? Where were the disposed of? How have the disposers been keep quiet? Have the disposers been killed too? How have the disposers of the disposers been kept quiet? Where were the bodies taken/buried? How was this accomplished?

(3)How do you explain the phone calls from loved ones physically on the plane, to other loved ones?
Where the calls faked? From where? How were family members duped into thinking they were talking to their wife (for example) when in you’re claiming they were talking to a computer program? How do you reconcile that some of the phone calls went through cell phone towers very close to the so-called “official” flight path? How do you reconcile that some of the calls originated from the Airphones physically on the plane in question?

(4)How do you explain the wreckage found in the building?
If it was planted, how was it planted? Who planted it? When did they plant it? Where did they get spare aircraft parts? Where were these spare aircraft parts stored? How were they transported to the scene without anyone noticing? Were the parts in question placed beforehand? If so, how? How was this accomplished without anyone noticing?

(5)How do you account for the wreckage found on the lawn?
Were the parts found in the lawn placed beforehand ? If so, where are the witnesses talking about aircraft wreckage laying around on the lawn beforehand? Or, are “they” “in on it” too? Was the wreckage on the lawn placed after the event? If so, how were “they” able to accomplish this without anyone noticing? Or are the potential witnesses, after the event “in on it” too?

(6)How do you reconcile the impact location, as it relates to the evidence?
How were the perpetrators able to judge the exact location of impact, before the event? That is, how do you reconcile that the airplane debris in question is exactly where it should be?

(7)How do you reconcile the bodies of the passengers and crew being positively identified through DNA evidence collected from within the Pentagon?
Is the DNA evidence faked? If so, by whom? Is the lab that conducted the tests and certified it’s authenticity “in on it” too?

(8)How do you reconcile personal effects, positively identified by family members as belonging to their next of kin, found within the Pentagon?
Was this evidence placed beforehand? If so, by whom? If it was placed after the event why did nobody notice? Or, are the first responders (Pentagon employees) “in on it” too? How were personal effects taken from the victims (like a drivers license) without their knowledge beforehand and planted?

(9)How do you reconcile the bodies of passengers found within the Pentagon, some still strapped into their seats?
Were the bodies placed beforehand? If so, how do you explain the bodies in question checking in at the counter at the originating airport? Were the ticketing agents “in on it” too? If the pilots were killed beforehand and then placed in the Pentagon (at some point), who flew the plane? If the bodies were placed after the event, how were the correct passengers and crew killed, then placed in the Pentagon without anyone knowing? Are the first responders, who found the first bodies, “in on it” too? Can you offer a time line that reconciles the correct passengers/crew checking in at the airport, being led off and executed and then their bodies being transported to the crash site?

(10)How do you explain the impact zone damage being completely in-line with a fast moving commercial airliner?
Was it a controlled demolition? If so, where are the blasting caps? Wiring? How was the area wired without anyone noticing? How long would this take? How would the employees who were killed at their desks not notice demolition experts wiring their office with demolitions and not complain, notice, or ask questions? Or, were the employees killed at their desk “in on it” too? If there were no employees at their desks, were the bodies planted before the event? If so, how? By whom? How have the planters been kept quiet? Were the planters killed too? By whom? Were the bodies planted after the event? If so, by whom? Where are the eyewitness reports of dead employees being brought in, after the fact? Or, were/are these potential witnesses “in on it” too?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by discombobulator
Do you currently have a FOIA Request to gain public access to this document?

Yes i do, through public and internal request as stated.

If so, what is the FOIA Request Number (or Case File number)?

There is no request number untill the request is sent. But i can show you the public e-mail that i sent.

Yes, please. Could you please ensure that it includes the date of your request?

Now when are you going to adult enough to answer my question about the E-4?

You may want to repeat the question as I have no recollection of you asking it to me, nor the inclination to wade through pages of this thread to find what you are talking about.

[edit on 20-8-2008 by discombobulator]

Well, since the most pressing questions in regards to their take on this are repeatedly ignoned, I guess their entire premise is full of bunk. I'll just consider this a laughable attempt at attention, or perhaps in a grasp for $$$, until they are able to actually address some of the many issues surrounding their theory, and answer the hard questions that until now, are ignored.

Them: "Our witnesses prove that it flew in from somewhere else, and ergo, the claimed story is not true."

Us: "But even more witnesses saw this plane hit the Pentagon. How could they all be lying / mistaken? It's pretty obvious what a 757 looks like, and I know we'd know if one hit the side of a building if we were watching it. What gives? Why is your smaller # of witnesses reliable, while the larger # are not?"

Them: *crickets...*

Originally posted by fleabit
Them: *crickets...*

Just so you don't get the impression you're yelling into the wind here, I've been reading each and every one of your posts and, although I may be mistaken, I do not believe I have seen them reply to a single one of them.

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar
Please answer these questions that are directly related to evidence.

I have already answered these questions, why can't you be an adult and admit when you have been proven wrong?

(1) What happened to flight 77?
If flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon, then where is it?

Please be mature enough to go look at the FAA registration information for this plane. You will see that has been destroyed. BUT IT DOES NOT SAY WHERE, HOW OR WHEN.

(2) What happened to the passengers and crew?
Where are the passengers?

We have DNA evidence the passengers are dead. BUT WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE THE PASSNEGERS WERE IN THE BUILDING.

(4) How do you explain the wreckage found in the building

There are no official reports matching parts found to AA77.


[edit on 20-8-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by discombobulator
You may want to repeat the question as I have no recollection of you asking it to me, nor the inclination to wade through pages of this thread to find what you are talking about.

Well most of the pages are you eithier ignoring or refusing to answer the question. Please be adult enough to answer the question.

WHAT WAS THE E-4B DOING FLYING AROUND DC. DURING THE ATTACKS?

Here is the FOIA e-mail i sent to NSA. Please feel free to check the address and send an FOIA if you like.

Sent: Sat 8/16/08 11:08 PM
To: [email protected]

PRIVACY ACT STATEMENT: Authority for collecting information requested is contained in 5 U.S.C. § 552a and 5 U.S.C. § 552. NSA's Blanket Routine Uses found at 58 Fed. Reg. 10,531 (1993) as well as the specific uses found in GNSA02, GNSA03, and GNSA10 apply to this information. Authority for requesting your Social Security Number (SSN) is Executive Order 9397. The requested information will be used to assist the Agency in locating and disseminating the applicable records to the requestor. The disclosure of the requested information, to include your SSN, is voluntary. However, failure to provide the requested information may delay the processing of your request.


Full name:

Company/Organization:

Address
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Country:

Home Phone:

Work Phone:

Description of the records you seek: I would like to get a declassified copy of the CRITIC messages and any follow up reports from September 11, 2001 of the interception of Flight 93.

Originally posted by discombobulator

Originally posted by fleabit
Them: *crickets...*

Just so you don't get the impression you're yelling into the wind here, I've been reading each and every one of your posts and, although I may be mistaken, I do not believe I have seen them reply to a single one of them.

They've responded to I think 2, in a roundabout way.

For example, I asked how the bits of wreckage got onto the lawn at the Pentagon the day of the attack. Answer was "what wreckage?" My reply was a picture of the wreckage, crickets after that.

The other about the bit with serial # info. The reply was an amusing "where is the report authenticating that was really found there."

But none of the most obvious and blaring questions have been answered. Why are a handful of witnesses WELL after the attack, considered honest, non-dubious, and correct (other than the obvious answer of "they support our theories!"), yet a much larger base of witnesses that actually saw the jet crash into the Pentagon are all either incorrect, lying, or mistaken?

Answered with a nebulous response to the effect of "maybe they didn't see what they thought they saw," and crytpic comments about a psy-ops campaign, I asked what did they think they saw then? And how were they fooled into thinking a 757 crashed into the Pentagon? Answer to that, again, was crickets.

It's pretty simple. Right from the gate, if a large # of witnesses (much larger than the # upon which this entire premise is based) witnessed a silver 757 jet flying into the Pentagon, either they are ALL mistaken (or were ALL tricked), or it happened. End.of.story. Since these witnesses exist, you need to provide proof of why they are wrong. Failing that, your entire theory goes out the window. It DOESN'T MATTER where your folks THINK they saw a plane. The end result was the same. That is, an AA 757 plane flew into the side of the Pentagon.

Since they are utterly unable to explain away the existing witnesses, their theories mean nothing.

reply to post by ULTIMA1


You should have sent that FOIA request to me. You'd get the same results:

"IT DOES NOT EXIST"

Thank you

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Here is the FOIA e-mail i sent to NSA. Please feel free to check the address and send an FOIA if you like.

Sent: Sat 8/16/08 11:08 PM
To: [email protected]

PRIVACY ACT STATEMENT: Authority for collecting information requested is contained in 5 U.S.C. § 552a and 5 U.S.C. § 552. NSA's Blanket Routine Uses found at 58 Fed. Reg. 10,531 (1993) as well as the specific uses found in GNSA02, GNSA03, and GNSA10 apply to this information. Authority for requesting your Social Security Number (SSN) is Executive Order 9397. The requested information will be used to assist the Agency in locating and disseminating the applicable records to the requestor. The disclosure of the requested information, to include your SSN, is voluntary. However, failure to provide the requested information may delay the processing of your request.


Full name:

Company/Organization:

Address
City:
State:
Zip Code:
Country:

Home Phone:

Work Phone:

Description of the records you seek: I would like to get a declassified copy of the CRITIC messages and any follow up reports from September 11, 2001 of the interception of Flight 93.

did you submit by email or online request because according to their site their site there are three ways to submit:
1 by mail
2 by fax
3 by online request form

No where does it say you can submit by email. So you apparently work for the NSA but yet have no idea how to submit a FOIA request.




[edit on 20-8-2008 by tide88]

[edit on 20-8-2008 by tide88]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by discombobulator
You may want to repeat the question as I have no recollection of you asking it to me, nor the inclination to wade through pages of this thread to find what you are talking about.

Well most of the pages are you eithier ignoring or refusing to answer the question. Please be adult enough to answer the question.

Are they? Would you like to point out even one instance where you have asked me this question?

You can't because you didn't. 60 pages of thread and no mention from you of an E-4B, whether in the context of a question or otherwise, until now.

WHAT WAS THE E-4B DOING FLYING AROUND DC. DURING THE ATTACKS?

I don't know, and quite frankly, in a thread discussing CIT's allegations of a Pentagon flyover, I don't really care!

That is, unless you are suggesting the E-4B is the flyover jet?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Here is the FOIA e-mail i sent to NSA. Please feel free to check the address and send an FOIA if you like.

Sent: Sat 8/16/08 11:08 PM
To: [email protected]

First you were going to scan a letter that was supposedly your FOIA request, now it has turned into an email?

Next was the claim that you had made an internal FOIA request, but as it has subsequently pointed out that there is no internal FOIA mechanism your request suddenly became both internal and public.

So, with your claim that you have now submitted a public FOIA request with the NSA by email, I am further puzzled when reading the NSA's FOIA Handbook which states that FOIA requests must be submitted through physical mail, fax (less than 20 pages) or an online FOIA request submission form.

The few mentions of FOIA staff or positional email addresses I did find carried a disclaimer stating these persons could only be contacted in relation to existing FOIA requests, and that new requests need to be submitted via the published process.

Whilst I have no doubt the [email protected] email box exists, it is not referenced in any way at all in relation to FOIA requested submitted by the public. Google returns nothing on a seach of this email address.

When did you first become aware that this document contained information that proved the "official story" is wrong?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1
Here is the FOIA e-mail i sent to NSA. Please feel free to check the address and send an FOIA if you like.

Sent: Sat 8/16/08 11:08 PM
To: [email protected]

Hmm, I researched this a little further and found that you apparently did not send this FOIA Request until AFTER I asked you this:

So you have an FOIA request in at the moment?

Would you mind sharing the FOIA Request Number?

posted on 16-8-2008 @ 11:13 (Note: 24 hour time)

How curious.

You were aware of this document from (at the least) 7-8-2008 @ 15:39 onward. You stated that it must be obtained through a FOIA request.

Yet you didn't bother to put in a FOIA Request until after you were questioned on it.

Why is this?

Originally posted by tide88
did you submit by email or online request because according to their site their site there are three ways to submit:

I sent it by e-mail. Gee, so funny how beleivers will go out of thier way not to admit to the FOIA being sent.

Originally posted by discombobulator
[Hmm, I researched this a little further and found that you apparently did not send this FOIA Request until AFTER I asked you this:

Well if you could read you would have known that this was the public one. I sent the internal FOIA from work last week.

But at least i have proven that i do send FOIA requests. At least i do try to find the truth instead of like the beleivers that jsut live in a media feed fantasy world.



[edit on 21-8-2008 by ULTIMA1]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by discombobulator
[Hmm, I researched this a little further and found that you apparently did not send this FOIA Request until AFTER I asked you this:

Well if you could read you would have known that this was the public one. I sent the internal FOIA from work last week.

Two days after you supposedly filed this public FOIA request, when quizzed on the details of your FOIA request that can actually be verified, you were characterising your request as "internal" and denying this existence of FOIA Request Numbers.

You mentioned absolutely nothing about a "public" request, even though you had apparently made one two days before.

Or maybe you don't remember typing up this post - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Now all of a sudden, when this ridiculous idea of an internal FOIA agency is brought into question, you reveal that you actually made two requests for the information! Only your public request (which can be independantly verified) appears to have been lodged inappropriately, and after the date and time you where challenged... and you didn't mention it for days, all the while repeatedly ignoring questions to validate your claim.

But at least i have proven that i do send FOIA requests. At least i do try to find the truth instead of like the beleivers that jsut live in a media feed fantasy world.

Sorry, you haven't proven that you sent this one in.

[edit on 21-8-2008 by discombobulator]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1


Well if you could read you would have known that this was the public one. I sent the internal FOIA from work last week.

So, let me get this straight. You sent an INTERNAL FOIA request?

You sent an e-mail to someone at the NSA (where you are currently employed)requesting documentation proving that the governement and the company you work for is covering up the shoot down of flight 93?

Roger, do you think we are that stupid?

If you do in fact work for the NSA.... you wont be for long. Your days of envelope licking will soon be over.





[edit on 21-8-2008 by ThroatYogurt]