The North Side Flyover - Officially Documented, Independently Confirmed

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by tide88
You have zero crediability here or any other forum. .

Well the way you keep ignoring my question really makes you have zero credablitiy.

Thanks for showing that the beleivers like you have no evidnece and are too immature to answer questions.

Again this is not an "i asked you first forum" What kind of question is that anyway. You cannot be serious. You cannot post proof that AA77 did not hit the pentagon. You really crack me up Infact, the only reason I am still posting on this topic is because you are so entertaining. BTW, still waiting on the FOIA letter you said you are going to post. Also waiting on your government ID or securtiy card scan. You can easily block out any info on either one. Also can you access internet sites at your job?

Originally posted by tide88
Again this is not an "i asked you first forum"

Ok thanks for proving again you cannot post proof.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by beachnut
No one has to prove 77 hit the Pentagon,

WRONG, yes you do have to prove the AA77 hit the Pentagon since you claim that it did.

Either back up your claim or admit you are wrong.

FDR, RADES, witnesses, debris, DNA, and more prove 77 hit the Pentagon. For someone who works for the NSA you are not very well informed, are you?

Originally posted by beachnut
FDR, RADES, witnesses, debris, DNA, and more prove 77 hit the Pentagon.

Well have to show that you cannot post any proof that AA77 hit the Pentagon.

1. FDR debates offical story.

2. The witnesses could not agree on what they saw, let alone if it was AA77.

3. Their are no reports that match debris found to AA77.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by beachnut
No one has to prove 77 hit the Pentagon,

WRONG, yes you do have to prove the AA77 hit the Pentagon since you claim that it did.

Either back up your claim or admit you are wrong.

Here you go. He is a piece of the plane with serial numbers that match flight AA77 on the pentagon lawn. PROOF FOR YOU Prove to me that this was planted and is not a piece of AA77.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by tide88]

Originally posted by tide88
Here you go. He is a piece of the plane with serial numbers that match flight AA77 on the pentagon lawn. [

So where is the report that matches the serial number to AA77?

How many times are you going to rehash the same tired garbage that has been debunked time and time again.
It DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU ARE SHOWN you will DENY it anyway and support your fantasy to the grave.

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by tide88
Here you go. He is a piece of the plane with serial numbers that match flight AA77 on the pentagon lawn. [

So where is the report that matches the serial number to AA77?

N64AA is AA77
AA77 Notice the numbers

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by beachnut
FDR, RADES, witnesses, debris, DNA, and more prove 77 hit the Pentagon.

Well have to show that you cannot post any proof that AA77 hit the Pentagon.

1. FDR debates offical story.

2. The witnesses could not agree on what they saw, let alone if it was AA77.

3. Their are no reports that match debris found to AA77.

FDR debates official story? Funny stuff. FDR supports the witnesses and the "official story". Darn, you should have been an aircraft accident trained investigator. If you need help there are thousands of trained aircraft accident investigators from the USAF you can look up and talk to one on one since you are from the NSA and the USAF Officers would gladly talk to an NSA officer! Have you do this yet, talked to an expert (your are now).

Oh, let me show you a CIT witness, just one of many who saw 77 hit the Pentagon.

Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building." "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building."

All the debris from 77 matches 77, the wheels, the engines, the seats, the sheet metal, and an employee of the NSA knows this is a fact because he works for the premiere intelligence agency of the world. Either you work for the NSA and you are joking about this, or you have no official intelligence job at the NSA at all!

To deny the FDR was found in the Pentagon, and the DNA proves you do not work for the NSA, they do not hire people who can not use logic, reason, and judgment based on reality based knowledge to make rational conclusions. You have failed to make a rational conclusions on this topic and now offer ZERO evidence to support your ideas.

Let me show you what you lack!
1. Proof the FDR is not real!
2. Proof the DNA evidence is not real!
3. Proof the parts at the Pentagon are not 77!

It is your burden to prove you ideas, which absent of facts and evidence now, stand as pure fantasy. For you being an employee of the NSA, I find it impossible to believe now that you clearly spread false information any NSA employee would not be doing without evidence to prove his/her ideas.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by beachnut]

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by tide88
You have zero crediability here or any other forum. .

Well the way you keep ignoring my question really makes you have zero credablitiy.

That's really fresh coming from you. You've ignored my FOIA questions FOUR TIMES now.

Thanks for showing that the beleivers like you have no evidnece and are too immature to answer questions.

Really. You continually question the maturity of others here when you in fact demonstrate every manner of poor behaviour that you claim others here are guilty of.

So here, I give you a fifth chance to show us all how mature you really are.

You state that you possess a classified document that would prove the "official story" false, but you say that in order for it to be released publicly it must be obtained through a FOIA request.

You are now being asked for the FIFTH time to answer BOTH questions.

Do you currently have a FOIA Request to gain public access to this document?

If so, what is the FOIA Request Number (or Case File number)?

The evasions you have given so far are:

1) FOIA Request Numbers do not exist - You have since debunked your own evasion by providing an NTSB FOIA Request Number, but with no proof whatsoever that it is even related to you

2) Your FOIA request was internal - This is a lie. The Freedom Of Information Act is designed to allow the public (Government agencies excluded) to gain access to non-exempted material held by Government agencies. There is no mechanism referred to as "FOIA" that allows these undocumented requests to float freely around within any particular Government agency. Access to documents within Government agencies is restricted through classification and job responsibility.

3) You have completely avoided the topic. You have not responded to me repeated requests for answers to these simple questions. Furthermore, when replying to others have that have asked you to respond to these questions you have removed all references to these questions in your reply and completely ignored them.

What evasions are you going to add to the list when you refuse to answer these two simple questions for the fifth time?

Do you currently have a FOIA Request to gain public access to this document?

If so, what is the FOIA Request Number (or Case File number)?

beachnut
FDR, RADES, witnesses, debris, DNA, and more prove 77 hit the Pentagon. For someone who works for the NSA you are not very well informed, are you?

That sounds just great beachnut except there is no physical evidence. You are bluffing with no evidence to back you up. Professional FAA aircraft crash investigators normally take over a crash scene and collect and tag aircraft debris and verify with serial numbers and aircraft maintenance part numbers the identity of the aircraft. That did not happen here at the Pentagon did it? Neither the FBI nor any other investigator knows the identity of the alleged aircraft parts found at the crime scene. You have no physical evidence. All you have is unverified evidence submitted by the 'primary suspect'.

The damage pattern inside the Pentagon 1st floor is aligned with a flight path along a straight vector through the 5 light poles and to the south of the Navy Annex which no aircraft flew. A vector from the alleged impact hole in the Pentagon to North of the Citgo would produce a completely different damage pattern inside the Pentagon. No aircraft flew the official flight path. The actual aircraft flew over the Navy Annex and North of the Citgo. PROVEN by living eyewitnesses. An aircraft impact is not possible.

You have no south flight path eyewitnesses. Some of the alleged original eyewitnesses have no names to be traced. Some of the alleged original eyewitnesses were proven to be miles from the Pentagon and 2nd or 3rd hand witnesses. Some of the alleged original media eyewitnesses were proven to have lied and changed their accounts. Not one single alleged south path original eyewitness has been located and had their accounts verified. Not one of you defenders of the official Flight 77 flight path has lifted one finger to verify their accounts. Why is that? Do you all actually know for a fact that no such eyewitness accounts exist?

All this destroys the faked Flight 77 FDR and the faked 84 RADES data. They have been proven to not have happened as illegally manufactured. Yes these two pieces of fraudulent evidence are destined for the garbage heap of failed disinformation.

Furthermore, known professional liars and alleged Pentagon eyewitnesses NeoCON Bobby Eberle (GOPUSA) and NeoCON Gary Bauer (fundamentalist nutcase from the lunatic fringe of the Religious Right) could never be trusted to tell the truth on any matter. Therefore their alleged testimony means zilch.

It's obvious some of these folks are such fanatics about what they believe in, they won't believe anything happened unless proved without a shadow of a doubt. For example, that piece of wreckage with AA serial info: They will believe this was related, when you provide 4 independent studies conducted the day OF the crash, recognizing that this was indeed from that plane, from metallurgy tests, advanced physics tests proving it could fly to that location from the angle that the plane hit the Pentagon, with 9 eyewitness accounts that saw this particular piece of wreckage fly from the plane, and arcing through the air, landed on that piece of land. Finally, 12 psychics will have had to be given access to this piece of metal, to use their empath abilities to determine if it indeed, came from an aircraft that recently held emotions of fright, terror, and despair. Then those 4 independent studies will have to have been cross-checked by the NSA, FBI, CIA, FDA, notarized by the President, and then displayed for public access for 10 years. If this happened, they might believe it. But probably not.

The fact that something unique and terrifying occurred that day, and that normal channels and methods may have gone out the window, does not occur to them. Well after the fact, it seems quite obvious that policies and procedures should have been followed to the letter, and that anything that wasn't done to the letter is obviously an attempt at a cover-up.

And the witnesses that saw a HUGE PASSENGER JET COLLIDE WITH THE PENTAGON, are obviously out for something, demented, dubious, or stupid. Yet the handful of witnesses later that only saw the plane supposedly flying at a different angle, on which this entire silly premise is based, are clearly lucid, intelligent individuals, that are only trying to help reveal a terrible conspiracy. That has to be it.

The fanatical-like obsession to cling to these fantasies are a bit unsettling. Makes me ponder.... what are these folks REALLY after? Since they ignore truth, unless it suits them, I hightly doubt it's to reveal a truth to the people.

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
While you're at it you can find Sgt's Lagasse & Brooks and tell them the same thing.

Then go to ANC and tell all the workers that they are also "not credible" and that they must have all simultaneously hallucinated the plane on the north side or else they are lying.

We'll all get right on that as soon as you tell them that they are "not credible" and must not have seen the plane hit the Pentagon

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by nicepants
Your claim mentioned nothing about the US or the last 30 years..are you changing it now?

NO not changing it. But you should know that buidlings in other countries do not have the same building codes as in the US.

Building codes are different in other countries, but your claim of "no steel building" was not specific to any geographical region. Do you now wish to modify your claim or will you admit that as it stands, it is incorrect?

Originally posted by ULTIMA1I have shown several steel buildings that had longer fires and as bad or worse structural damage and did not collapse.

"Several" does not equal "All".

Originally posted by tide88

Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by tide88
You have zero crediability here or any other forum. .

Well the way you keep ignoring my question really makes you have zero credablitiy.

Thanks for showing that the beleivers like you have no evidnece and are too immature to answer questions.

Again this is not an "i asked you first forum" What kind of question is that anyway. You cannot be serious. You cannot post proof that AA77 did not hit the pentagon. You really crack me up

Infact, the only reason I am still posting on this topic is because you are so entertaining. BTW, still waiting on the FOIA letter you said you are going to post. Also waiting on your government ID or securtiy card scan. You can easily block out any info on either one. Also can you access internet sites at your job?

It cracks me up that Ultima demands that we skeptics provide him with evidence yet at the same time he refuses to take the CIT evidence to a court.
What a joke.

[edit on 19-8-2008 by TheBobert]

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT
Here are a couple of more accurate north side flight path image estimations based off the eyewitnesses.

The one in the OP is old and it won't let me edit.

I love the classic Boger statement were he saw 77 hit the Pentagon, and CIT says he is a liar! It is their witness! You will see CIT has twisted witness statements, and ignore witness statement to match their false conclusions. There are hundreds of witnesses, even their witnesses who contradict CIT.

This turn takes over 85 degrees of bank and is 12.7 Gs! An impossible feat for any airliner, and this physics is aircraft independent, impossible even for made up fantasy planes of CIT. Notice not one witness saw an 85 degree bank! That is air show stuff, and not seen on 9/11.

Here is where high school physics, or college physics puts a big damper on CIT's false paths! You see the very straight path of 77,.the "official flight path" confirmed by the down lampposts and heading information contained in the FDR from 77 found in the Pentagon. How many people had to plant this stuff! I was in the military, we would have turned in all the bad guys on day one! CIT is making up this junk! The point is the path is straight because the plane is going fast and to turn a plane you must bank and the bank seen on 9/11 of 77 was less than 10 degrees. The bank to make the CIT turn is over 85 degrees! And over 12 Gs!

Impossible turn! How many times will CIT mess up witness statements to fabricate the impossible?
85 degrees of bank!
12.7 Gs! (wings would fall off at 7g!)

Originally posted by Craig Ranke CIT

Originally posted by pinch

Originally posted by discombobulator
Hey Craig,

Why isn't Roosevelt Roberts Jnr's statement corroborated by Levi Stephens?

Craig? Craig...??? Earth calling Craig....come in Craig!

Because Levi was facing the opposite direction and missed the flyover/deduced the impact.

That is patently ABSURD.

If Levi was facing in the opposite direction of the impact then he would have been looking at, if Roberts account is correct, a commercial airliner 100 feet overhead, flying away from him in the direction he is facing!

You interviewed him and, given your total lack of response, he never indicated anything of the sort.

Are you suggesting that Levi proves Roosevelt was completely fabricating his account of a commercial airliner with jet engines at an altitude just over the light poles flying away from the Pentagon immediately after the explosion?

Well, it's hard to suggest that is account is completely and entirely accurate when you have noone, absolutely noone, POSITIVELY NOONE corroborating his account of seeing a commercial airliner, 100 feet above south parking lane one. NOONE. And that includes Levi Stephens, Sean Boger, Edward Paik, Mrs. Hubbard, Veronica, Cindy Reyes, William Lagasse, Chadwick Brooks, Robert Turcios, everyone at ANC.

Why would Roosevelt lie about this on 11/30/2001 in a recording that he knew would be forever documented in the Library of Congress?

What could possibly be his motive for doing that?

Noone is saying that he lied, Craig. You are. There are all manner of explanations for why people give inaccurate statements without lying.

But it cannot be denied that he is describing something which, when his words are taken literally, should have been observed by hundreds, if not thousands of witnesses including some of the very people you spoke to. Including one person that you confirmed would have been directly underneath this supposed flyover jet.

No, when you start removing the improbable parts from Roberts account it seems to make more sense to me that he is talking about the incoming C-130. Then when you consider his position on the south loading dock relative to the actual known flight path of the C-130 (as opposed to your crap), you'd be looking out across south parking lane one at the C-130 in the distance. He describes it bank towards the north and complete a U-turn (or 180 degree turn) and heading back in the direction it came from, again consistent with the actual known flight path of the C-130 (as opposed to your crap).

This would be consistent with Joel Sucherman's account who also puts another aircraft in the distance off to the west, 3 to 5 seconds after impact.

Originally posted by SPreston

beachnut
FDR, RADES, witnesses, debris, DNA, and more prove 77 hit the Pentagon. For someone who works for the NSA you are not very well informed, are you?

All this destroys the faked Flight 77 FDR and the faked 84 RADES data. They have been proven to not have happened as illegally manufactured. Yes these two pieces of fraudulent evidence are destined for the garbage heap of failed disinformation.

Fake FDR? Prove it! You can't

Fake RADES data supported by the C-130 pilot? Prove it! You can't

The truth is the FDR is correct and not fake, the FDR contained all 25 hours of flight 77 did. Kind of proves it, and this was verified by truthers; the pilots for truth got all the data, and it proves every single hour on 77 was on the FDR! If you want verification it is in the hands of pilots for truth FDR decoders. Kind of makes your fake statement false, not supported in fact, just made up opinion, is it even your idea? You can't prove a single thing about the FDR is wrong. The final heading on the FDR matches within a degree the debris path of lampposts. The real killer for you is the witnesses who saw 77 hit lamppost and the Pentagon. You can call me a liar, but doubt you prove any of the witnesses wrong with evidence, but you will just talk about it. Fine, you got opinions, reality that 77 hit the Pentagon has hard evidence.

You have talk, no evidence. The data is not fake you ideas are fake, and you have no evidence; made up fantasy.

Go ahead and post another fake CIT NoC flight path and ignore witnesses who saw 77 hit lampposts and hit the Pentagon.

fleabit
For example, that piece of wreckage with AA serial info:

Ahhh yes, that little piece laying on that beautiful golf course turf the first picture of which came out 6 years after 9-11 in September 2007. Doesn't it seem odd that there is only one picture of it?

fleabit
They will believe this was related, when you provide 4 independent studies conducted the day OF the crash, recognizing that this was indeed from that plane, from metallurgy tests, advanced physics tests proving it could fly to that location from the angle that the plane hit the Pentagon, with 9 eyewitness accounts that saw this particular piece of wreckage fly from the plane, and arcing through the air, landed on that piece of land.

Nine eyewitnesses watched that teensy little thing fly through the air and none of them saw the light poles which were a thousand times bigger flying through the air? Do you mind providing links to these wild claims of yours?

The very first time I saw or even heard of that little piece was after the Department of Defense published the official Pentagon 9/11 book in September 2007.

That little piece isn't here - - Nor is it here - - Only known photo in the Pentagon 9/11 book

Defense Historians Document 9/11 Pentagon Attack
WASHINGTON, Sept. 7, 2007 – Nearly six years after a terrorist-controlled plane slammed into the Pentagon, killing 184 people aboard the plane and in the building, Defense Department historians have published a book on the incident and its aftermath.

“Pentagon 9/11” is a narrative history based on a multitude of information sources, including 1,300 oral histories gathered in the immediate aftermath of the attack. The book became available this week through the U.S. Government Bookstore at bookstore.gpo.gov... and also through commercial vendors.
www.defenselink.mil...