Martian soil may contain detrimental substance

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
How do they get the monkies there? By handing them a giant handful of Ballons at the park?

Haven't you heard about rockets?

The Russians have some of those, you know? And for some years.

I dont think this was brought up to the President due to the implications of the toxicity of the soil. That kind of information is not high priority. It does not affect national security on any level.

Perchlorate was detected below the surface and at levels beyond what would be expected by contamination by human rocket propellant.

Here's some quotes about Perchlorate:

Perchlorate is a salt, which exists naturally in some fertilizers and can be man made. Because of the large amounts of oxygen in its chemical make up, it is used as an oxidizer to help solid rocket fuel burn.

www.councilonwaterquality.org...

Perchlorate is a man-made anion commonly associated with the solid salts of ammonium, potassium, and sodium......

Production of ammonium perchlorate first began in the United States in the mid-1940s, primarily for use by the U.S. military. The most common uses for ammonium perchlorate are in explosives and rocket propellants, which have been widely used in military munitions items, such as mortars, grenades and flares and solid fuel rocket.

Based on production data from two perchlorate manufacturers, it is estimated that 90 percent of perchlorate compounds are manufactured for use in defense activities and the aerospace industry.

In addition, ammonium perchlorate and the other perchlorate salts have been or are used in a wide range of applications, including pyrotechnics and fireworks, blasting agents, solid rocket fuel, matches, lubricating oils, nuclear reactors, air bags and certain types of fertilizers.

www.epa.gov...

What the detected levels may imply is an unnatural and non human source of the perchlorate. The President would have been briefed for the unnatural and potential non human origin of the perchlorate so we can assess the situation and draw up a CONPLAN and decide on a course of action if a crisis is identified.

Well... you've got:

i.) Methane in the Martian atmosphere. Source unknown, possibly organic.
ii.) Water ice centimeters under the surface. Unknown whether it ever melts.
iii.) Perchlorates present in the soil as a possible food source for bacteria (which is what happens on earth).
iv.) On Earth, perchlorates form naturally (ie there are natural perchlorates as well as manmade perchlorates) when evaporation of water greatly exceeds precipitation. Perchlorates are produced from the dissolution of perchlorate salts.
v.) Theories exist which say perchlorates are produced by atmospheric deposition on earth, ie via precipitation.
vi.) Perchlorates can persist on earth for decades.

To me, the implication is that you have a water cycle on Mars. There is very, very rare precipitation - probably a very light mist. This settles as dew, which evaporates / sublimates rapidly, or possibly soaks into the ice "aquifer".

Liquid water + water cycle + atmospheric methane + asparagus soil = "potential for life scenario".

Hence the White House briefing.

We have a contradiction!

www.space.com...

The chemical NASA's Phoenix Mars Lander found in a sample of Martian dirt, as announced on Monday, may not be harmful to any potential life there and could in fact be a boon to it, mission scientists said today.

Originally posted by ArMaP
Too bad those standing bodies of water are just bad interpretation of the photos... Unless you are talking about something I have never seen.

Yeah, those blown clusters of blueberries, which can look pretty bluewater-like, along with low-lying fog in some spots, certainly have a lot of people thinking of buying lakefront property. It's too bad, I guess, that when the fog rolls off and the angle of the light changes a little, all that "water" evaporates faster than it did 2 billion years ago.

[edit on 5-8-2008 by Nohup]

Originally posted by Caliwowly1
3.) I can not think of any plants that grow in the salt flats? but that does not mean that there is not suitable locations with different soil compounds?

The salt flats out here in Nevada are pretty dead, but you have to remember that they are only the low points... where the last water with all the disolved salts ends up... the hill around the lake are different

Both Rovers landed in the desert areas... Thats like dropping one rover in the Sahara desert and one in the Gobi desert... and after five years dragging through the sand stating there is no life on Earth...

The Phoenix lander just look at the panorama Its flat... no hill no crater you couldn't have found a more desolate spot if you tried...

Then they only have four experiments on board..

They dig up a little ice under the surface and immediately the world press and internet are reporting that ...

"Scientists reported that the soil near Mars' north pole was similar to backyard gardens on Earth where plants such as asparagus, green beans and turnips could grow...."

Okay ONE sample ONE region and all of a sudden we can grow Asparagus??? (Why Asparagus anyway how many grow that in their backyards?)

Then they take a second sample and "WHOA Hold up there skippy... no asparagus cuz we found perchlorate... and that is bad for life... so maybe nothing will grow on Mars afterall.."

Okay so why do they say that? Considering the amount of perchlorate contamination on Earth from various wars since gunpowder was invented and atomic blasts... using that ONE SAMPLE logic means there should be no life on Earth...

So what is it with these bozos? Do they get paid by the sensationalist Press Release?

Well two experiments left... wonder what those will find...



I need a cartoon for my website... showing a Godzilla like critter about to stomp the Phoenix while the camera is looking the other way...

Caption... "Phoenix did not discover any signs of life..."

Originally posted by Nohup
Yeah, those blown clusters of blueberries, which can look pretty bluewater-like, along with low-lying fog in some spots, certainly have a lot of people thinking of buying lakefront property

Hey I don't mind... I will take a patch of "Blueberry Hill" I get $1.00 a piece for the ones on Earth and $2.00 each for the square ones... Can you imagine what I could do with a few buckets of Martian Blueberries?

Ofcourse it might be a bit pricey for the guards to keep the claim jumpers at bay



[edit on 5-8-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by DataWraith
Great , the Martians would think we're a race of interplanetary Roaches and want to step on us.

Now THAT ought to win first prize for the funniest thing I heard on ATS

Either that or that Movie MIB is true

As to the monkeys... don't forget that the Russians are following an American tradition... many of our Astronauts have Jr. on their name... Well 'daddy' is already a veteran so this will be Monkey Jr.

:shk:


Maybe Dave Rabbit can interview PETA and get a reaction




[edit on 5-8-2008 by zorgon]

Originally posted by Quazga
Wow.. Monkeys to Mars?
Mars will be the new Planet of the Apes.

Well this film would come BEFORE the others....

"How Planet of the Apes was Made"

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
I mean this is retarded...
it's such a stupid thing... all that IQ and no one thought about the fact that it was picking up samples from where it made a decent with rocket fuel? and noe they use the traces of the chemical to say no life...

Your right really stupid considering HYDRAZINE which is the rocket fuel contains NO PERCHLORATE

DOH!!!

Originally posted by zorgon
Then they take a second sample and "WHOA Hold up there skippy... no asparagus cuz we found perchlorate... and that is bad for life... so maybe nothing will grow on Mars afterall.."

Okay so why do they say that? Considering the amount of perchlorate contamination on Earth from various wars since gunpowder was invented and atomic blasts... using that ONE SAMPLE logic means there should be no life on Earth...

Look at my post above. An article from today says life could thrive due to perchlorates. I don't know how they got that mixed up before, but this is god news! (except for the fact that they didn't get it right in the first place)

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
What the detected levels may imply is an unnatural and non human source of the perchlorate. The President would have been briefed for the unnatural and potential non human origin of the perchlorate so we can assess the situation and draw up a CONPLAN and decide on a course of action if a crisis is identified.

LOL All this fuss... scientists disagreeing, the President dragged in all on one little sample?

Why does this whole thing smell like a set up to keep us bamboozled?

Since when are any decisions made, let alone the President called in, on one sample?

Its been long speculated by many sources that life on Mars was wiped out by war... maybe along with the perchlorate they found something else that wasn't a natural chemical... now THAT would require the attention of Herr Bush



Something is not right... one sample is not enough to draw any conclusions either way... so what is really behind all the media hype?


[edit on 5-8-2008 by zorgon]

reply to post by zorgon


That is incredible.

About two months ago I had a dream that I had left Earth and traveled to Mars but Mars was different.

In my dream there were humans living on Mars, but they had a different name for the planet. I recognized some of the people in my dream, and they seemed to know who I was. The people there were extremely friendly, and I had the feeling that they had originally moved to Mars from Earth, but everyone on Earth had forgotten about the humans that left.

In my dream though, the people on Mars remembered everyone on Earth and they were planning on coming back to show people on Earth what they had forgotten.

But for some reason the government of Earth didn't want us to remember, and I was standing on Mars with these people when we saw lights in the sky. I realized right away that we were about to get massively Nuked from a space port, and then lo and behold, there were mushroom clouds everywhere killing everyone.

It was a pretty crazy dream, it is even stranger now after learning about the existence of perchlorate on the Martian surface.

I am personally excited to see what else comes of this discovery.

This is why so many people enjoy folks like Richard C. Hoagland.

And this is why so many people want to bitch slap NASA.

reply to post by zorgon


Thats my point, the President wouldn't be notified unless it was something of supreme importance, especially something that may affect national security. The next step is to make an assessment, which is probably going right now with the JCS and the National Security council, to determine if a crisis exists or if there is a need for a CONPLAN. During this assessment phase more data will be needed from NASA before anything is really done other than meetings with lots of talking and speculation.

Originally posted by RUFFREADY
And this is why so many people want to bitch slap NASA.

You know it happens a lot lately...

They announced running water in a gully... then shortly after retracted and said it may be only a dry landslide

They announced liquid water wrote papers made speeches only to have it pointed out by a blogger that the photo was on a steep slope so it could not be water and they retracted and scraped egg off their face...

They told us Mars was dead and dry
They told us Mars used to have water
They told us there is enough water at the poles to flood Mars 30 feet deep

They tell us magic dust devils do a regular cleaning of the Rovers to keep the dust off

They tell people for years they are crazy for reporting lights and clouds on the moon... yet they have documented every report and more
Now they tell us "you were right" there are raging dust storms on the Moon following the terminator...

They cannot say atmosphere so they say 'levitating dust' So much and so high that there are sunset rays and after glow after the sun sets... yet they show us a clear black sky...

I need a drink... my head is spinning...

:shk:

Originally posted by ArMaP

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
How do they get the monkies there? By handing them a giant handful of Ballons at the park?

Haven't you heard about rockets?

The Russians have some of those, you know? And for some years.

You have no sense of humor...

A: The photoshop I did of the Orangutan on Mars was funny as heck...

B: How do you miss the Sarcasm in those posts???

Can you actually tell me it is not absolutely mentally insane to send Monkies to Mars (and duh I know russians have rockest)

What is this blind sentiment to Russia... why the hell would you launch monkies to Mars?

And don't tell me to save human lives okay... because a human Astronaut is trained knows what to do in an emergency, isn't helpless and... has the intelligence to take these kinds of risks knowingly

whereas a Monkey in a "situation" will freak out a die a horrible suffering death having no idea what the heck is happening to it and it's smart enough to suffer intensely

If they want to test landing and take off... they do Not need monkies... some hamsters could do just fine, K, it's not the 50's you don't need the Monkey to pull the lever they can do it from Earth...

Sending a Monkey to Mars is as Moronic as this probe is...

Send some people already... this is all ridiculous, they are hiding something... it's completely possible to do it and...it would cost what a few weeks In Iraq costs us...

There is a load of BS here about Mars and we deserve to know what it is...

send monkies ...of all the %^&%$ dumb ideas...

way to one up us Russia... Show that super power status, send some more apes into space... haven't seen that one in half a century...

Roaches could probably survive on mars. They are cannibalistic when there is no food and they require such small amounts of oxygen. Radiation wouldnt be a problem for them either. However, the cold. Would be there demise.



Anyway. Whats with the martian percholate war crap. some of you guys are really out there. I guess we need to find out WHY this complex # is under the surface of mars.

Anyway Flagged and starred.

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
I mean this is retarded...
it's such a stupid thing... all that IQ and no one thought about the fact that it was picking up samples from where it made a decent with rocket fuel? and noe they use the traces of the chemical to say no life...

Your right really stupid considering HYDRAZINE which is the rocket fuel contains NO PERCHLORATE

DOH!!!

Okay... didn't know that, but the number of ways perchlorates could be there via the probe are quite large...

But... I'm thinking your right...

and Thank You, Thank You, Thank You for the bit of knowledge

Because I just did a bit of research on perchlorates and found what I believe the reason this went to the president actually is...

I'll post it Below

OKay!

Nasa has confirmed that while perchlorates can be formed from minerals like calcium or Magnesium they are just about certain that the percholates did NOT come from those sources...

So how would Perchlorates form?

Ammonia...

A few very interesting things about Ammonia

A: It can form from the break down of Organic Material

B: As the waste product of Organic Creatures

C: and this one really tickles the funny bone... and is the real reason I think that Nasa went to the President... The Perchlorates could be a sign of life directly

Ammonia is considered the most viable option for the fluid sysytem of Living organsims that:

"Have to survive in temperatures below freezing"

Ammonia per chance is considered by Astrobiologists to be... the fluid organisms on cold worlds would use instead of water to...walk around as you or I do...or crawl or slither etc, etc...


So it looks like we might have ammonia based criters being fried up in the burner by nasa... and the salts in their system would be... Perchlorates

BING!

Now another very interesting thing I learned...

Peru... The Nazca Plain, no one thought there was life there... very close to the giant Nazca lines people say were built for alien craft...

This is going out on a limb... to suggest that maybe... the landing site was chosen for a reason...

But per FACT... when soil was thouroughly evaluated... they discovered that Microbes in the region... Lived off of? Can anyone Guess?

Perchlorates

So we have microbes on earth that Eat this stuff... and Landing strips on the part of the world...or what people say are landing strips... but the part of our world that most resembles... Mars, down to perhaps the microbes in the soil


Do I win a Cupie doll or what?

Okay, okay... ammonia is present in nature naturally...

But here's the catch, if there was natural ammonia and lots... it would be liquid...

So we have 2 options here... 1 sucks... the other is good...

Either some of the water we see on mars is Ammonia in Liquid form and for whatever reason we haven't noticed this and nasa has never detected this...

or

There is an Organic source for this Ammonia

as we know the composition of Mars limited atmosphere.... lots of Ammonia would almost certainly have been detected... and there wasn't talk of this ever...


so... something is either pissing ammonia or more likely using it as an anti freeze in it's blood...

The origins of the perchlorates are very likely Organic...

and...

The thing is Nasa has Astro biologists... they know this, they saw the percholates and went straight to the president...

They are almost certainly organically formed...






[edit on 6-8-2008 by mopusvindictus]

[edit on 6-8-2008 by mopusvindictus]

Originally posted by mopusvindictus
You have no sense of humor...
How do you miss the Sarcasm in those posts???

ArMaP's sense of humor is there... but English is not his first language

What is this blind sentiment to Russia... why the hell would you launch monkies to Mars?

Russians don't worry about PETA that is why at the beginning of the space race they got there first... I think they are nostalgic for the good ole days

Russians don't worry about checklists and tile inspections on the Shuttle... they have a fleet of robot Progress ships... that can zip back yo Earth in just over three hours in time for evening Vodka

has the intelligence to take these kinds of risks knowingly

ever watch those guys clowning around on the Moon? In a suit that a slight puncture....

The REASON they will use monkeys is because it is not socially acceptable to send a HUMAN one way...



[edit on 6-8-2008 by zorgon]