Shocking : American army morality

Wow, okay, so the American military is full of immoral people? Is that what you're trying to get at? I'm a Marine, that must mean I'm the worst type there is. Without trying to be too harsh, this is retarded.

Let's take a look at something here:
America in general-it is estimated that 876,064 rapes of adult American women and 111,298 rapes of adult American men occur annually. Credit: PCAR

The US Military-There were nearly 3,000 sexual assault reports filed in 2006, compared with almost 2,400 the previous year. Credit: MSNBC

Hmmm, so why should the military be spotlighted in this way? Besides the fact that we're supposed to be the ones that represent our country. We're the ones that everyone will see and if we're jacked up, America is jacked up. We are supposed to be the shining example of what every American should be. But I think we're being spotlighted not only because of this, but because people who just love contraversy are looking for crap like this.

Look, it doesn't matter where you are or what you do there will always be people who are messed up in the head. We're human beings, we're not perfect. In the military we strive to be as close to perfection as we can, but there will ALWAYS be those few who are just not right in the head.

"These people shouldn't be allowed in the military! The recruiters should be turning them away!"

I know I'll hear it, so I'll squash this now. First, have you ever been a recruiter for any branch of the military? I haven't, but my father was and he gave me the whole run down before I joined...I should have listened to him a little better because I'm in kind of a bad spot, but whatever, that's my fault. People will come to the recruiter with no criminal history or signs of being messed up in the head. They appear to be as normal as you or I. You're not always going to be able to weed out the ones who will eventually do some jacked up stuff. Make sence?

I hope you can understand that these people who do stupid things DO NOT reflect on the rest of us in the military. These are just the 5-10% who slip through the cracks.

Echo3Foxtrot, Lance Corporal of Marines

Do not degrade the Military, which you have (obviously) never served in! You know nothing about what you have not been a part of. I am an Army vet and am very offended, I also work for the Navy. join up and BECOME someone!! Sorry guys, I couldn't hold back!

No one suggests that all military people are like this, but anyone suggesting that there is only sparse instances of immoral behavior is coo coo .

Torture was institutionalized, rape was more than sporadic ,and murder common place.

41% of woman are sexually harassed in the military
females in the military are being stalked period.
A reflection of a vulgar society devoid of the greatness it once was.

Originally posted by OutoftheBoxthinker
"American army IMmorality" would be a better title for this thread.

Originally posted by LateApexer313
You know what makes me sick about a thread like this? To name a few things...how about Al Queda dragging the corpses of our soldiers through the streets of Iraq, burned, battered and tortured?

[...]

coming from the person who stated on another thread that he thought humanity deserved to be dominated by the intellectual and spiritual elite.. this is laughable....sorry but being ruled by al sharpton and ed witten is a horrifying prospect

If my country was invaded by barbarian US imperialists I would treat them no different.

Please also note that we don't really know for sure which actions are actually done by Mujaheddin and which are done by CIA black-ops operatives. Some of the most shocking events may have been created by the CIA. For example, the Nick Berg beheading bears all the marks of a CIA black-ops operation. Another obvious example is the 9-11 attack.



Anyway, this thread is about the barbarism of American soldiers and not about the supposed barbarism of their enemies.

amareican soldiers arent barbariens they are employees doing a #in job u dolt perhaps we should turn back time set u loose in iraq or afgahnistan and let them drag your ass through the streets or kill your entire family with serin gas..... whos the barbarian in that picture huh you'd be begging some leather neck to save you... but instead you sit at your desk and complain not even the liberal media has as much gall as some of you anti american posters... well heres a though... without us barbarians and our markets and things all you foriegn whiners like to buy and make money from you'd be sittin in the damn stoneage with rampant feudalism or communism or fascism.....you love us when your threatened and need some saveing but if its nothing to do with you we are barbarians i say to hell with all of you i'd love it were possible for us americans to leave you to the dogs and watch how fast your begging for our barbarism to save you....but alas we are busy saving your ass behind the scenes while recieving no gratitude

[edit on 5-8-2008 by constantwonder]

Originally posted by solo1
No one suggests that all military people are like this, but anyone suggesting that there is only sparse instances of immoral behavior is coo coo .

Torture was institutionalized, rape was more than sporadic ,and murder common place.

41% of woman are sexually harassed in the military
females in the military are being stalked period.
A reflection of a vulgar society devoid of the greatness it once was.

so it goes from 40% sexually assaulted to 40% sexually harrassed? wow uhh what...... so if you are changing your statement to be about harrassment then mny friend maybe we should lock you up to have you never cat called a chick or said something vulgar in the presence of a woman? harrassment is a farcry from rape........id say damn near everyman on the planet is guilty of some kind of sexual harrassment if you take it at face value

I did not say that the entire military, that is a Straw man, plain and simple.As for your "Become a dog of the military and make something of yourself"No I refuse to fight a war for greedy leaders who only want money and power, not caring for the lives lost. I did not degrade your stupid war-mongering military I simply pointed out to someone else that they should look at it from the point of view of the people you so wrongfully invaded, I ask you to do the same, Even if only a few where to do such things I'm sure many would have bitter feelings towards them as a whole.
Nobody on this thread said anything about "These people shouldn't be allowed in the military! The recruiters should be turning them away!"
However since you brought it up, I agree there is no way of telling if they are insane sadists, but once you find out they are, shouldn't something be done? There should be punishment for any behavior even close to this. I don't mind if you defend yourselves, maybe you didn't read what I put or misunderstood it, and if that's the case then I meant nothing towards you.
"Do not degrade the Military, which you have (obviously) never served in! You know nothing about what you have not been a part of."
Has it ever occurred to you someone close to me has went to Iraq? Or maybe the fact that we have amazing technology- books, heard of it? Apparently you've found the internet just fine so you should know how easy it is to get info on here. Not every source is biased B.S.....just most of it.

"In the military we strive to be as close to perfection as we can..."
Oh so perfection includes learning to kill for your masters because of trivial matters? Your pretty full of yourself man. In my last post I said think about the following:
"Every enemy is merely a reflection of yourself in which you have conflict with" Think about it. Stop reading this and go back and read that line until it makes sense and then read it a bit more. Done? Awesome, do you realize now how truly pitiful both sides are? This doesn't apply to all enemies of course, Hitler was bat s--t bonkers.
I'm done bothering with this junk.
*´¨)
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.•HarlequinChevalier

reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot


Well said, star for you! I wish more people from the military were on these forums to explain how things really are. Perhaps then we wouldn't see threads filled with as much misinformation as this one.

Originally posted by solo1
No one suggests that all military people are like this, but anyone suggesting that there is only sparse instances of immoral behavior is coo coo .

Torture was institutionalized, rape was more than sporadic ,and murder common place.

41% of woman are sexually harassed in the military
females in the military are being stalked period.
A reflection of a vulgar society devoid of the greatness it once was.

I was in the military, am female, and was never harassed, sexually or otherwise. I also know many other females who are or have been in the military who were never harassed in any way. Nor have any of us been stalked.

I would also hardly call murder in the military common place, nor is torture institutionalized or rape more than sporadic. The statistics for this article came from ONE hospital out of hundreds. If a woman is raped, where does she go? To the police and the hospital. Where were the statistics gathered? In a hospital where you are more likely to find rape victims. These statistics are about as reliable as me going to McDonald's and giving a survey to those inside about what fast food restaurants they have visited in the last month. I could easily come up with 60% of the people in this McDonald's have eaten at a McDonald's more than twice in the last 30 days. Does that mean that 60% of the population eats at McDonald's more than twice a month? No. Not a perfect analogy, but I think my point is clear for anyone who wants to understand it.

The fact that these things do happen is simply a matter of statistics. Anywhere you have a large population you are going to have rapes and murders. A military base is no different than a city. It is a statistical fact that every city is going to have people who rape and murder. How is it surprising that some of these crazies manage to slip past the recruiters, the doctors at MEPS, and through basic without anyone realizing that they are crazy? If you ever watch the news there have been more stories than I can count where someone goes nuts and kills their spouse and all the neighbors say "I never thought they would do this. They seemed so nice." "He was a nice guy, always quiet and kept his yard mowed. A perfect neighbor. I never expected him to gut someone with a hunting knife and dance in the streets soaked with blood."

These things happen. It doesn't make it right, but they do. It is not something that only happens in the military, and I fail to see why 40% of the women in a hospital of all places is cause for an uproar when the murder count in the closest city to me was over 200 before the end of April and not a peep was uttered, here or elsewhere, about the immorality of that city. Heck I would be almost willing to say that anyone who claims that murder and rape in the military is more than sporadic is coo coo.



90% of statistics can be made to say anything you want 50% of the time.

Originally posted by HarlequinChevalier
Nobody on this thread said anything about "These people shouldn't be allowed in the military! The recruiters should be turning them away!"
However since you brought it up, I agree there is no way of telling if they are insane sadists, but once you find out they are, shouldn't something be done? There should be punishment for any behavior even close to this.

Something is done about it and quite a few things, in the Army at least, are punishable up to and including death. Please see my post on page 8 I believe for a link to a list of crimes and the punishments.

[edit on 5-8-2008 by Jenna]

Originally posted by HarlequinChevalier
I did not say that the entire military, that is a Straw man, plain and simple.As for your "Become a dog of the military and make something of yourself"No I refuse to fight a war for greedy leaders who only want money and power, not caring for the lives lost. I did not degrade your stupid war-mongering military I simply pointed out to someone else that they should look at it from the point of view of the people you so wrongfully invaded, I ask you to do the same, Even if only a few where to do such things I'm sure many would have bitter feelings towards them as a whole.
Nobody on this thread said anything about "These people shouldn't be allowed in the military! The recruiters should be turning them away!"
However since you brought it up, I agree there is no way of telling if they are insane sadists, but once you find out they are, shouldn't something be done? There should be punishment for any behavior even close to this. I don't mind if you defend yourselves, maybe you didn't read what I put or misunderstood it, and if that's the case then I meant nothing towards you.
"Do not degrade the Military, which you have (obviously) never served in! You know nothing about what you have not been a part of."
Has it ever occurred to you someone close to me has went to Iraq? Or maybe the fact that we have amazing technology- books, heard of it? Apparently you've found the internet just fine so you should know how easy it is to get info on here. Not every source is biased B.S.....just most of it.

"In the military we strive to be as close to perfection as we can..."
Oh so perfection includes learning to kill for your masters because of trivial matters? Your pretty full of yourself man. In my last post I said think about the following:
"Every enemy is merely a reflection of yourself in which you have conflict with" Think about it. Stop reading this and go back and read that line until it makes sense and then read it a bit more. Done? Awesome, do you realize now how truly pitiful both sides are? This doesn't apply to all enemies of course, Hitler was bat s--t bonkers.
I'm done bothering with this junk.
*´¨)
¸.•´¸.•*´¨) ¸.•*¨)
(¸.•´ (¸.•HarlequinChevalier

no it isnt all biased bs as you put it but how aer you to know whats reputable and what isnt on the internet? i could post a website saying canadians are all cannibals drum up some numbers make it presentable and i guarentee thered be a thread on here about it within hours quoting the numbers as fact.... for anyone to say the internet is a reliable source of information is foolish..... the onl truly reliable unbiased information is made through direct observation and then because you have your own ideology you automatically make the info biased so.................

Originally posted by HarlequinChevalier
"In the military we strive to be as close to perfection as we can..."
Oh so perfection includes learning to kill for your masters because of trivial matters? Your pretty full of yourself man.

Oh, I'M full of myself? Okay, sir, whatever.

What I mean by perfection has NOTHING to do about combat. It's about how we act, how we present ourselves. You'd know this if you actually stopped to talk to these "dogs of the military" as you put it. We strive to hold ourselves above all the rest, I say again, we are supposed to be the shining example of what every American should be. Do you not understand what our agenda is besides combat? Do you know anything about what we men and women do? What we serve for?

I'm sorry, sir, I really don't want to say this, but I feel I have to. This statement quoted above makes you look ignorant to what we strive to accomplish in a non-combat mind set.

Echo3Foxtrot, Lance Corporal of Marines

[edit on 0885 by Echo3Foxtrot]

reply to post by constantwonder


I guess the saying is true " Common sense isn't."
I don't wanna play this stupid little game with you, but heres an example of how I'm interpreting what you saying, tell me if I mess up. "Everything on the internet is a pack of lies and it doesn't matter if you use evidence, there you can make evidence for anything", but at that rate why not add "don't ask people close to you cause they are biased by having to fight. The news is mostly lies now days or at least half-truths, so if you want to know why they are or are not angry at a SMALL portion of troops for throwing puppies of cliffs, mocking their beliefs, etc...

Am I close?

Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot

Originally posted by HarlequinChevalier
"In the military we strive to be as close to perfection as we can..."
Oh so perfection includes learning to kill for your masters because of trivial matters? Your pretty full of yourself man.

Oh, I'M full of myself? Okay, sir, whatever.

What I mean by perfection has NOTHING to do about combat. It's about how we act, how we present ourselves. You'd know this if you actually stopped to talk to these "dogs of the military" as you put it. We strive to hold ourselves above all the rest, I say again, we are supposed to be the shining example of what every American should be. Do you not understand what our agenda is besides combat? Do you know anything about what we men and women do? What we serve for?

I'm sorry, sir, I really don't want to say this, but I feel I have to. This statement quoted above makes you look ignorant to what we strive to accomplish in a non-combat mind set.

If you don't mind my asking, how should you act? What do you see as honorable?

my apologies if i offended you harlequin for that was not my intent and i would once again like to restate my original statement which was that we cannot paint every soldier with the same brush

and on a different note in alot of earlier posts there was a great deal of backlash against any americans who were defending the soldiers who arent behaving in a way that would be unsatisfactory to todays system of morals and this anti-american rhetoric is obesely detremental to the people in society that arent involved in this i understand that alot of people dont like our government (myself included) but the hatred often bleeds out onto the mass public who just want the same things as all of us peace of mind prosperity and harmony

[edit on 5-8-2008 by constantwonder]

[edit on 5-8-2008 by constantwonder]

reply to post by constantwonder


It was not my intent to anger anyone either, we misunderstood each other,
"Al Queda dragging the corpses of our soldiers through the streets of Iraq, burned, battered and tortured?"
(I'll ignore the fact you link Al Queda with Iraq [not you constant the guy I was to lazy to find to quote])
I too apologize in case I may have offended you in any way, and for getting I was trying to show people what the veiwpoint of the ones we are talking about might be, I can't be for certain that's what it is, some are happy of course but others might feel as though they were treated unjustly. I did not mean to offend anyone with the video, the majority aren't like that I'm perfectly aware, but maybe if attention was brought to the few that was it might help to enlighten us more on both sides of the situation, next time I'll try to make myself more clear to avoid conflict. ^_^ Sorry again.

[edit on 5-8-2008 by HarlequinChevalier]

reply to post by HarlequinChevalier


The Marine Corps follows the core values: Honor, Courage and Commitment. We strive to be outstanding citizens that do the right thing all the time. Yeah, a lot of us don't do it, but it's something that is always stressed upon us. What I see as honorable is that I am doing something I chose to do for the country that I love. The country that gives me the freedom to speak my mind without prosecution, to practice whatever religion I see fit, I do what I do so you can feel safe at home while you sleep in your cozy little bed. I do what I do to protect three things our country holds close to our hearts: Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. I like to present myself with pride and discipline, something many civilians in America are deprived of. I strive to be the example that every last American should want to follow. That's what we do. You'd know this if you've stopped and actually looked around at the proud men and women that are doing the right thing instead of focusing on your selfish want to belittle us and pointing out those few who do wrong in the military.

Let me ask you this: Why do you point out the few people in the military that have sexually assaulted someone instead of focusing on the many that are normal everyday civilians?

Echo3Foxtrot, Lance Corporal of Marines

reply to post by Vasilis Azoth


ok so were just supposed to let these extremist murder innocent people.. jounalists, mothers, children, and in some cases gasing entire villages, besides correct me if i'm wrong but this thread was about american soldiers hurting other american soldiers,, rape is never acceptable.

and besides america isnt just a christian country, there are muslims, wiccans and pagans too, hindus, buddists and many others.. and waht makes u think that christians are morally superior i know plenty of pagans that have a better moral standard than most christians, the supposed religious right has more blood on their hands than anyother group

[edit on 6-8-2008 by scorand]

reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot


i think u have it backwards most adhere to that ideal, however like it was stated before some will let a few bad apples spoil the barrel.

reply to post by Echo3Foxtrot


I wasn't the one ho brought that topic up.
I do think the post above mine has a good point.

Originally posted by LateApexer313
How about the first capture of a female American military woman in Iraq, in a convoy, back broken, shot, stabbed and raped in an Iraqi hospital, having to be rescued by what was it, NAVY SEALS??

I was under the impression that when this was faked by Bush and Co. to promote the war in Iraq?


She confirms her injuries were prior to the hospital.. where are you getting your facts.. if this is questioned.. then the rest of what you spew may also be skewed....

I must confess that my opinion of Pfc. Jessica Lynch has changed
dramatically since she was rescued by the Army Rangers and Navy Seals who stormed Saddam Hospital in Nasiriya on April 1, 2003 to rescue her. I no longer see her as a patriotic American soldier but as a political pirhana and an economic opportunist. That, of course, leads me to wonder just who is advising the permanently disabled former soldier now.

...................

You can pretty much take it to the bank that whomever is advising Lynch
is not a political conservative. Someone has also convinced Lynch that her rescue was nothing more than a PR ploy of the Bush Administration to sell America on Bush's illegal war on the people of Iraq. But whatever else it was or was not, Lynch--who was scheduled for a leg amputation by the Iraqi doctors at Saddam Hospital if the good guys didn't show up when they did--survived the ordeal and came home in one piece.

Is Jessica Lynch a fake? as the rumor goes....

The other “hero” was a girl whose capture and rescue in the early days of the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq inspired the TV drama-documentary 'Saving Jessica Lynch.'

...............

From early on, Lynch complained how she felt she had been used. This week she made her feelings crystal clear to Waxman's committee.

I am still confused as to why they chose to lie and tried to make me a legend… The story of the little girl Rambo from the hills who went down fighting is not true," Lynch said. "The bottom line is, the American people are capable of determining their own ideals for heroes, and they don't need to be told elaborate lies.

Pentagon’s tales of fake war heroes exposed

Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot
Besides the fact that we're supposed to be the ones that represent our country.

Says who!?!?

You sir and those in the military do not represent!

You do as you're told!

You were not elected by the people.

Are we seeing an example of god complex in those who think because they have a license to kill they are above all else?

Step down and know your place sir.

You are nothing more then disposable soldiers who follow blindly what your commands wish you to do. Nothing more and nothing less.

Thanks for putting a smile on my face thinking your all that...

Originally posted by Willbert
You sir and those in the military do not represent!
........................
Step down and know your place sir.

You are nothing more then disposable soldiers who follow blindly what your commands wish you to do. Nothing more and nothing less.

You sir, being from Toronto, do not know who does and does not represent our country. I, personally, would rather have members of our military represent our country than others who happen to reside here. I also fail to see why anyone should be told to "know their place", that was a bit uncalled for don't you think?

None of the soldiers in our military are disposable, nor do they blindly follow whatever they are told. It seems to me that those who have never been in our military are not in a position to tell those who are in our military about it works. Thus the massive amounts of disinformation flung about in this thread.