Shocking : American army morality

Originally posted by re22666
ooooh someone got a thesarus for christmas, or word of the day calendar. look, intelligently structured sentences impress stupid people unless they also include something intelligent in them. i am not a liberal or a democrat. apparently only they are against rape? or only they are not scared off by gay people? you use big words to say nothing yet have no problem spewing ignorant rants and homophobia in supporting the people here who support "some rape." whatever you say buddy.

just what was it an argument for then? especially in the context in which it stands?

[edit on 8/3/2008 by re22666]

I don't need a thesaurus. I'm and educated man. However, as illustrated above, it is quite apparent that you are not since you failed, yet again, to comprehend my original post.

By the way, before you attempt to suggest that someone else can't compose an intelligent argument on this board you really should, at the very least, proofread your composition and run it through a spell checker!

One final note:

I do agree that intelligently structured sentences do impress stupid people. The fact that you believe I had to use thesaurus to compose my response is a clear indication that you yourself need a thesaurus to compose a likewise response. I am, however, flattered that you are impressed by my work.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by re22666

 

Actually, I am comparing how the U.S. Army treats rape victims as compared to how our enemy treats rape victims. No doubt you are saint god holier than thou who has the right to judge all others, but to admit something about reality would possibly make your holiness impure.

As I explained in my first post the 40% number is probably grossly over stated, having served in the military when women were first introduced into deploying units, I have a good idea how the system works, which I seriously doubt you do.

Most U.S. soldiers see rape as a crime against humanity, and will not tolerate a rapist among them. Having served in the military, I know for certain that was the truth in my time, and I am completely confident that this is the same now. I say these numbers are garbage, and your holier than thou attitude proves you don't know what you are talking about, as you so quickly and adamantly condemn all U.S. soldiers, proving that you are the type of fanatic that our Muslim enemies love. What ever you think gives you the right to sit in judgment of all others, and paint all U.S. soldiers with one brush because of he actions of a few, all I can say is that I hope when they introduce you to your own particular existence in Hell you contemplate this for an eternity. Hypocrisy is the worst of evils.

Judge not lest you be judged.

who ever said i was holier than thou? where do any of you get that from. when someone calls me satanic, i assume they are claimng to know god. i met your god, he told you not to judge. i am just reminding you. i am not claiming any moral superiority over anyone. i am simply pointing out that instead of agreeng rape is wrong, should never happen, and the fact that military are raping for america, well something should be done.
but you would rather say that the number is blown out of proportion.
i said fine.
lets say one woman.
just one
prove it has never happend ever or at least admit it happend at least once
is that too many times for you yet?
it is too many for me and i am looking for a more satanic avatar as we speak. apparently it helps weed out christians who claim moral superiority and have forgotten to read their bibles.

Originally posted by re22666

Originally posted by constantwonder
reply to post by re22666

 

just hold the phone killer i didnt call u satanic i said you invalidate your argument by spouting off about the bible and that judging people is a sin a previous poster merely mentioned your symbol which is recognized by popular culture to be satanic and the you started talkin about how you have your bible right here and will be glad to show us where is says judgeing is a sin..... i merely thought this meant maybe you prescribe to it and if you dont then why are you talking about it

if you can read
what i said was
when you can show me in the bible where it says anything about my avatar

i got my bible right here and i will show you where it says you arent supposed to judge my avatar to begin with.

no i am not pushing myself as a bible thumper. i am simply saying that if you want call me satanic, lets get on that playing field then, i will play by your rules. and if you are questioning my morals based on half the post you almost read, then you are no better.
rape is wrong.
rape in the military should have been stopped before it started
anyone arguing against that here is an idiot

in none of my posts did i say you are satanic another poster said something about your symbol being satanic you got defensive and rambled a bunch of the same rhetoric about how were condoning rape and attacking you... who clearly only wants attention and doesnt i want to debate the subject of the thread..... i never said rape at any rate is ok and everything you say keeps saying that is what i am saying please by all means go back find the posts where i said rape is ok and said that you are satanic now if your done with your mindless dribble can we talk about the issue at hand

Originally posted by LiquidMirage

Originally posted by re22666
ooooh someone got a thesarus for christmas, or word of the day calendar. look, intelligently structured sentences impress stupid people unless they also include something intelligent in them. i am not a liberal or a democrat. apparently only they are against rape? or only they are not scared off by gay people? you use big words to say nothing yet have no problem spewing ignorant rants and homophobia in supporting the people here who support "some rape." whatever you say buddy.

just what was it an argument for then? especially in the context in which it stands?

[edit on 8/3/2008 by re22666]

I don't need a thesaurus. I'm and educated man. However, as illustrated above, it is quite apparent that you are not since you failed, yet again, to comprehend my original post.

By the way, before you attempt to suggest that someone else can't compose an intelligent argument on this board you really should, at the very least, proofread your composition and run it through a spell checker!

One final note:

I do agree that intelligently structured sentences do impress stupid people. The fact that you believe I had to use thesaurus to compose my response is a clear indication that you yourself need a thesaurus to compose a likewise response. I am, however, flattered that you are impressed by my work.

nice how you danced completely around the fact that i was not impressed and simply pointed out that all your words added up to nothing. i refuse to use a spell checker here and typos are no biggy to me. but if i were to use the words i would use when writing at work, well i would use them on purpose to convey something. you did it to make your sentencese harder to read for (other people) but also just made them longer without adding any information. that is stupid. that is the very idea of someone who cannot write an intelligent sentence. id love to go to some other thread and debate english and grammar with you. start one, trust me i will go, and i wll make you sorry. until then, i could care less about spelling and typos here. but if you are going to waste bandwidth with flowery multisyllabic words, make sure that they actually add to the sentence instead of hide the fact that it says nothing at all.

ps, look out, i think i saw a guy decorating something behind you.

Originally posted by constantwonder


in none of my posts did i say you are satanic another poster said something about your symbol being satanic you got defensive and rambled a bunch of the same rhetoric about how were condoning rape and attacking you... who clearly only wants attention and doesnt i want to debate the subject of the thread..... i never said rape at any rate is ok and everything you say keeps saying that is what i am saying please by all means go back find the posts where i said rape is ok and said that you are satanic now if your done with your mindless dribble can we talk about the issue at hand

then why even say that the stats are bown up? who cares if the stats are inflated? if any statisitic above 0 is true. it is wrong. so if you are not defending rape because there are less than it says, what are you defending?

you go back and read the posts and you will see that you both began calling me mr moral superiority and making the same argument. if you didnt call me satanic, get over it. everything you two said was so similar, i was replying to both each time. sorry you didnt get that but then i guess you were not reading your partners posts, just mine. must be you want to give me attention. how about i leave, you all cheer and sit around discussing how some rape is ok, the story is bs, and mr fake military guy can gaybash. have fun kids.

[edit on 8/3/2008 by re22666]

Originally posted by re22666

Originally posted by Wifiman


Probably due to misinterpretation of symbols used by ceremonial magicians, it later became associated with Satanism and subsequently rejected by most of Christianity sometime in the twentieth century"

yep so not only is the pentagram not actually associated with the devil, but my avatar is also not a pentagram.

i guess all the stars in military insignia are associated with satan as well..or the stars in...oh wait, they are everywhere. no wonder it was never mentioned in the bible.

oh wait, was that supposed to prove your point or mine, because it not only proves mine, it makes my case stronger. now i am confused as to what we are debating


[edit on 8/3/2008 by re22666]

[edit on 8/3/2008 by re22666]

Lets put this in perspective shall we? First off, I don't condone rape in any way , shape or form. However, I, unlike you, don't use false statistics to spew misinformation about our troops. You make is sound like every soldier is a sex depraved madman screwing anything that walks.

As for the pentagram, I could care less what you use as an avatar. However, first impressions are everything. You sport a well known anti-religious symbol and expect me/us to believe that it is no way a religious symbol? You slay me sir, "so not only is the pentagram not actually associated with the devil, but my avatar is also not a pentagram." You are deluding yourself if you think that isn't a pentagram. If it's not, what is it then, an upsidedown star of david? I truly think you need to spend more time outside the house, I really feel you are slipping from reality, everyone else's reality I mean.

Originally posted by re22666

Originally posted by constantwonder


in none of my posts did i say you are satanic another poster said something about your symbol being satanic you got defensive and rambled a bunch of the same rhetoric about how were condoning rape and attacking you... who clearly only wants attention and doesnt i want to debate the subject of the thread..... i never said rape at any rate is ok and everything you say keeps saying that is what i am saying please by all means go back find the posts where i said rape is ok and said that you are satanic now if your done with your mindless dribble can we talk about the issue at hand

then why even say that the stats are bown up? who cares if the stats are inflated? if any statisitic above 0 is true. it is wrong. so if you are not defending rape because there are less than it says, what are you defending?

you go back and read the posts and you will see that you both began calling me mr moral superiority and making the same argument. if you didnt call me satanic, get over it. everything you two said was so similar, i was replying to both each time. sorry you didnt get that but then i guess you were not reading your partners posts, just mine. must be you want to give me attention. how about i leave, you all cheer and sit around discussing how some rape is ok, the story is bs, and mr fake military guy can gaybash. have fun kids.

[edit on 8/3/2008 by re22666]

OK SEEMS YOU HAVE BAD SHORT TERM MEMORY... LET ME MAKE IT REAL CLEAR FOR YOU RAPE IS BAD BUT YOU AND THE OP SAYING THAT EVERYONE IN THE MILITARY IS GUILTYS IS WRONG THE INNOCENT DONT DESERVE TO BE DEFACED

I'm done with this thread. The shineys no longer gather my attention.

reply to post by re22666


If you bothered to read my post, you would have seen that I pointed out that the U.S. soldiers I served with did not approve of rape, and quickly took action to see that rapists were punished, as the U.S. military continues on to this day. Rape is not sanctioned by the U.S. military as you and this article claim.

Being as you have already been proved a fool by so many others, and hypocrite and a war monger by your desire to attack the western way of life, I will bother no more with beating the dead horse that you are.

AS I originally stated, the percentages in this post are extremely suspect for the reasons stated in my original post. I would add that all those so quick to condemn care nothing about right or wrong.

reply to post by LiquidMirage


Liq, you're contending against who have no basis for comparison. They are not even in the same theater. I am convinced that those who can't stand the killing in war live at their proctologists office with the relative ease they pull concepts out of their ass. Not one would last the first hour of combat.

Call it what you will - collateral damage, civilian deaths, even blue on blue and friendly fire. Unintentional deaths are the cost of doing business. War business. I guarantee you that even if you go back 15,000 years ago when both sides were limited to throwing rocks, one guy got the back of his head crushed when his buddy lost control of his pitch, and popped his mate right in the back of his punkin.

In battle, slow is dead, quick is good, and you don't have the opportunity for reflection that these armchair warriors and boys who wear their shorts backwards seem to believe is even possible. These limp-wristed jackals drink deeply of the milk of freedom, but don't want to have anything to do with maintaining the cow, and certainly would never consider getting their own hands dirty, regardless of how much they crow to the contrary.

No one in battle fights for his country. No one in battle fights for his beliefs. He fights for his fellow warriors, and the more you kill the fastest, the greater chance you have to live. And at the end of the day, that's all the soldier wants to do. He just wants to live. And if he's good, God help his enemies, because a good soldier will kill his enemy from the front, the back, and even while sleeping if he gets the chance. The faster you kill, the less shot you get. And if an enemy was worth killing once, he's worth killing twice. Dead is good. Deader is better.

"Pale Ebenezer thought it wrong to fight, but Roaring Bill who killed him, thought it right." When you're threatened, you better be shooting, because the other guy certainly will, and dead doesn't get any better, and unlike video games, you don't get to hit "reset." If you find yourself in a fair fight, then you didn't plan very well, and your execution positively sucks!

A soldier doesn't pick his country's wars, didn't choose his commanders, nor does he have the option of picking his battles. Not if he has any integrity or courage. Yet, "in the absence of orders, you go find something and kill it", Field Marshall Erwin Marshall

Civilians? Let me give you another term. Enemy enablers. And this concept is twenty-five hundred years old, was understood by Alexander, Scipio, Ghengis, and yes, even Sherman. In war bad things happen. In the second world war, a total of fifty-two million people died, the vast majority of which were civilians. But no one had the guts to jump on Hitler in 1938 or 1939 while total casualties could have been held to under 500,000. But men like Chamberlain, sounded just like these dumbasses on this thread. Peace. With honor. Yeah. Some peace. Some honor.

Women have no business in a combat zone. We've probable all known some ugly-faced, short-haired, corn-fed women who could toss a 300 pound bouncer through a window, out-belch a beer-drinking rugby team, out-fart leather-faced campfire cowboys, out-spit the White Sox, and out-cuss first-generation longshoremen. But they have no business in combat. There's never an excuse for rape, but if you want to act like a man, and be about a man's business, in combat, then you're on your own. Pull that crap on any big city street alone at night and see how long it takes.

Liquid Mirage, listening to some of these pansy-generated posts is a hoot. In hard times, war, or a state of anarchy, they are the first to fall. Always have been. And they're too foolish to know it.

Originally posted by re22666
nice how you danced completely around the fact that i was not impressed and simply pointed out that all your words added up to nothing. i refuse to use a spell checker here and typos are no biggy to me. but if i were to use the words i would use when writing at work, well i would use them on purpose to convey something. you did it to make your sentencese harder to read for (other people) but also just made them longer without adding any information. that is stupid. that is the very idea of someone who cannot write an intelligent sentence. id love to go to some other thread and debate english and grammar with you. start one, trust me i will go, and i wll make you sorry. until then, i could care less about spelling and typos here. but if you are going to waste bandwidth with flowery multisyllabic words, make sure that they actually add to the sentence instead of hide the fact that it says nothing at all.

And still you just don't get it. Maybe the third time is the charm. My post said allot. You're just too dumb to understand it. Anybody with a high school education can understand what I was saying. There really were no big words used. You just have a small mind.

This is the last time I will respond to this thread since you have conveniently derailed it with your accusations against those with an opposing viewpoint being in support of rape and then nitpicking about words people use simply because you don't understand them.

I had posted this in the other thread about the same article before finding out about this thread, so I'm moving it here:

Single post from other thread
In general one in four women will be raped in her lifetime, so it's just a matter of statistics really. It has nothing to do with the military, and I would be willing to bet that a large portion, not all but a lot, of those women in the military claiming to have been sexually assaulted are not telling the complete truth about what happened. Up until recently it has been a direct violation of Special Order No. 1 which states it is punishable by imprisonment to have sexual relations of any kind unless between a married couple while in a deployed zone.

The first link has a list of various punishable offenses and their punishments, including rape and sexual contact. The second gives information on the changes made to Special Order No. 1, which the article mistakenly calls General Order No.1.

UCMJ

Ban on Sex for Soldiers Lifted.... Sort Of

I just went back and read through all of the previous posts and cannot believe the amount of misinformation that is being spewed in this thread. The military has NOT relaxed their recruiting rules, they do NOT allow people with even a single felony as an adult to join at least in the Army. Prior to this year, certain felonies for adults could be waived but that is no longer the case. You could have a felony for possession of marijuana and that will prevent you from joining the Army. Anyone with a conviction of any sexual crime cannot join and has not been able to for many many years.

It amazes me that even though any one could easily find out what the standards are just by asking someone or by looking at Chapter 2 of the Army Enlistment Standards, they would rather spout misinformation and claim it as fact. It took me a total of 10 seconds to find you that link, so it is not difficult for anyone to see for themselves. It is unclassified information and is public knowledge. Rather than spew misinformation about the enlistment standards, how about we look them up.

[edit on 3-8-2008 by Jenna]

Referring to the 40% here....

That number is completely false, and comes from someones point of view. The fact that that point of view comes from a hospital, should decredit that number to begin with...being that a number of the females that are treated, are treated soley for something related to sexual assault...Just as you would be for any illness in any hospital.

With this information, a civilian doctor could probably make the same "assumption"

This just in...Doctors say that 70% of military members that go to the VA, have an injury....So we must conclude that 70% of the military is injured.

Originally posted by re22666
American Soldiers kill in war, not murder...

www.youtube.com...


www.youtube.com...




really?


[edit on 8/2/2008 by re22666]

[edit on 8/2/2008 by re22666]

Yeah, I noticed you removed that third video. Not what you expected, was it?

The second one I've seen before. It shows Marines shooting a guy, but doesn't say why? Was the guy shooting at them first?

The first one is that IAVW organization. I'm not too impressed with them because they have a BS agenda. A friend of mine was invited to join them when he had never even been there! They are just looking to inflate their numbers.

Every one of these jackasses needs to be prosecuted under the UCMJ for the crimes that they've publicly admitted to - because I've never come across a command in-country that didn't have firmly established ROE's. And I'd bet a year of my salary that there hasn't been a single commander post-OIF 1 that was willing to put his d**k in a sling with an ROE that stated people carrying shovels were fair game - no questions asked.

OK, enough of my rant. Back to the topic on hand!!! If any troop I knew raped someone, I'd make sure he'd be urinating out of a very thin bit of gristle afterwards!







[edit on 4-8-2008 by jerico65]

"American army IMmorality" would be a better title for this thread.

Originally posted by LateApexer313
You know what makes me sick about a thread like this? To name a few things...how about Al Queda dragging the corpses of our soldiers through the streets of Iraq, burned, battered and tortured?

[...]

If my country was invaded by barbarian US imperialists I would treat them no different.

Please also note that we don't really know for sure which actions are actually done by Mujaheddin and which are done by CIA black-ops operatives. Some of the most shocking events may have been created by the CIA. For example, the Nick Berg beheading bears all the marks of a CIA black-ops operation. Another obvious example is the 9-11 attack.



Anyway, this thread is about the barbarism of American soldiers and not about the supposed barbarism of their enemies.

And here I was thinking the thread was about the over-inflated number of sexual assault victims they found in one hospital. Silly me.

It's also worth pointing out that the CIA and the military are not the same thing. If the CIA has a team of black-ops people out there committing atrocities to further the goals of those in power, it can hardly be blamed on members of our military. For those members of our military that have actually committed crimes of any nature, they are apparently not balanced and should not be used as the standard for the rest of our military members who wouldn't even think of doing any of the things they are blamed for day after day.

reply to post by LateApexer313


the lack of morality is rife not just among soldiers in irag, but also among the us government and the fed, along with 90% of the western world leaders,

Al Queda buy the way is an imaginary concept dreamed up by the powers at be the word itself means base, a base to launch global war triggered by the us led demolition of the twin towers

osama bin laden is dead has been for two years but yet Americans and many Europeans refuse to admit this as the government will not.
the lack of morality of war is perptrated by the american government turning all Muslims into an enemy, therefore no respect is shown the any man woman or child in irag, you need to remember who trained osama - yep the us.
your gov still deal with his oil rich family, who also where flown out of the us on sept 11 whilst American citizen in states of panic could not go anywhere.

morality is lost when your leaders choose an illegal war for apparent national security no WMD's where found and now a war with iran who no according to the us government is now capable of hitting the us with a nuke, i doubt this but if true china or the russian s have supplied them with such weaponry shouldn't you be going after the source, but no the us government is perpetrating there own jihad on middle eastern land, the us also back isreal over palastine who are being terrorized, war on terror more a war for oil money and power, the us is collapsing economically but yet your corporations ie; Exxon have made 11,000,000,000+ in the last qrt of the financial year, corruption Americans refuse to see, and that ignorance has led to a point of no return. poetic justice for the Indian genocide, atrocity's in south America, corruption and the human abuse in q-bay, god fearing country that takes the bible and bashes the lands no different to Islamic fundamentalists except they are fighting you for trying to eradicate them

Originally posted by LateApexer313
You know what makes me sick about a thread like this? To name a few things...how about Al Queda dragging the corpses of our soldiers through the streets of Iraq, burned, battered and tortured?

How about the beheading of a journalist on Arab television? How about the first capture of a female American military woman in Iraq, in a convoy, back broken, shot, stabbed and raped in an Iraqi hospital, having to be rescued by what was it, NAVY SEALS??

How about comparing the numbers of our soldier's wrongdoings compared to ANY guerrilla, insurgent, terrorist, or any other military force in the world????

Threads like this make me sick....

You've got to look at things from more than your own bias point of view. Think of it like this, Some people come into your country acting oh...like this for example
Hmm, yup even if theres only 5% or less doing that, you'd be really PO'ed huh? I'm not saying either side is right, they are both equally wrong and stupid.
"Every enemy is merely a reflection of yourself in which you have conflict with" Ponder that one for a while.



*Edit* Fixed the video ^_^

[edit on 4-8-2008 by HarlequinChevalier]

reply to post by HarlequinChevalier


Link isn't working.. Which video is it supposed to be? And you are right. We hate most in others what we hate about ourselves.

reply to post by Jenna


Awwh, it was suppose to be of U.S. soldiers having children chant F*** Iraq, throwing grenades at sheep herders and being extremely vulgar. Figured if a few people aw it they might think " Hmmm, I wonder what those guys that got killed did, I can't imagine much worse than this."
Oh yea, and throwing a puppy off a cliff.

www.youtube.com...