Horror as bus passenger beheaded

Originally posted by Fathom

Originally posted by TheRepublic
the kid may have 4 stabbing wounds, 5 at max.
he could be given medical treatment and may have survived.

Dude...*sigh* this is a butcher's knife.
how about I stab you in the neck 4 or 5 times max and see if you "survive"

Well...to this point all they said was a large hunting knife....you are making reference to a butcher's knife...very different. And what they may consider a large hunting knife in Canada could only be a 3 or 4" bladed knife in which case he would have to stab the victim repeatedly in order for him to die of stab wounds. Now if he knew what he was doing he could have made a couple cuts and the victim would bleed out pretty quick. You are also assuming he was stabbed in the neck first. If the knife was as large as the one you posted and he was stabbed in the neck then the chances he could have screamed are slim as it would have pierced his vocal chords and he would be gargling blood....it would sound more like a muffled underwater scream at best. My guess would be that the attacker had no clue as to how to efficiently kill someone and began to just stab away at any part of the body in which case yes, someone on that bus that was not a complete coward could have saved the young mans life, but alas.....no real heroes emerged to help out....not even one concerned citizen.....utterly ridiculous.

Either way....if one or more people on that bus had any kind of weapon that could have been used to stop the attack I doubt they would have as none of them tried to stop it anyways.

Again....I would have shot or cut the attacker myself and been completely at peace with myself after doing so knowing that I may have just stopped a violent rampage and saved a life.

Originally posted by TheRepublic
... but we will never know thanks to canadas gun laws.

For the record, Canadians are allowed to carry concealed weapons if they get the proper permits, so you can stop repeating this statement every time you respond.
Form is here:
www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca...

The reason Canadians typically don't pack heat could be a number of reasons... common sense, a strong public media not in the pockets of arms manufacturers or the NRA or fearmongers, a constitution that does not guarentee the right to bear arms...


[edit on 2008.7.31 by cannonfodder]

gun control has nothing at all to do with this. I would much rather have the very rare event of something like this happening , as opposed to criminals and sociopaths legally being allowed to carry a concealed weapon. Pretty much anything can be used as a weapon, and if someone wants a gun in canada , they will get it , much like anywhere else. The worst part about our country is the legal system, this guy will most likely only serve 4 years. Ridiculous...

[edit on 31-7-2008 by aLinkToThePast]

reply to post by cannonfodder


yeah im sure those permits are real easy to get too...

The reason Canadians typically don't pack heat could be a number of reasons... common sense, a strong public media not in the pockets of arms manufacturers, the NRA or fearmongers, a constitution that does not guarentee the right to bear arms...

oh god...youre gonna need a wheel barrel for that load of **** buddy.

Originally posted by burdman30ott6

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
If I were closer to the subject, say in the row next to him I would probably deploy my knife, first taking out the arm he was using to cut and slash by coming from behind and under and cutting through the tendons in his forearm which in turn releases his knife and disables that arm, then coming back up into his armpit with the point of the blade and severing the artery which would cause him to bleed out within seconds without medical attn.

Have you ever ridden on a public transit bus before? Apparently you either have not or you're one of the shortest, thinnest, nimblest SOBs walking the Earth today. There is no room on a bus for all this fancy "go behind", "go under", "off the building, under the signboard, around the water tower... nothing but net" maneuvering you're talking about.

Yes as a matter of fact I ride MARTA quite often in Atlanta, and thanks to HB89 can now carry concealed on public transportation. I also regularly ride LIR in NY as well as the subway. A bus is something that I have exactly trained for in CQB classes. If you are not familiar with that term it stand for Close Quarters Battle, also known as CQC or close quarters combat. It is specific to confined spaces with limited room for movement. While I am glad you have a gun and carry it, do YOU know how to use one in a tight situation, or are you only good if the attacker is 30 feet or more from you. If that is the case then good luck EVER defending yourself in a situation that occurs because MOST occur right next to you as your attacker is attacking you personally. Have you trained in an adrenalized situation where you lose feeling in your fingertips, or did you even know that happens when your body releases adrenaline? If you don't know what I am talking about or have not been in any of these situations or classes then what authority do you have to say this can't occur? I can take you on a bus and show you exactly how it could occur....again...been there and trained for that. You tend to train for situations that actually occur, not go to the range and shoot targets that have masks on.....when is the last time you heard of an attacker standing still for you to shoot at 15 yards?

Granted, my first choice in less that 12' distance is always going to be my knife....it never runs out, and everyone knows how it feels to be cut...there is a fear factor there. Not many people have been shot, most only know what they see in movies and do not have the same fear of a gun as a knife.

Either way....I would have played out the situation exactly as I said in my previous post......what would you have done?

Originally posted by TheRepublic
reply to post by cannonfodder

 

yeah im sure those permits are real easy to get too...

The reason Canadians typically don't pack heat could be a number of reasons... common sense, a strong public media not in the pockets of arms manufacturers, the NRA or fearmongers, a constitution that does not guarentee the right to bear arms...

oh god...youre gonna need a wheel barrel for that load of **** buddy.

Are You implying that canada should adopt a law that would enable us to carry concealed firearms? When in terms of murders, your country has almost 4 times more murders each year per capita, then united kingdom or Canada. The only thing we need to change is the legal system.

I rather have a rare incident such as this happen then have gun laws that allow every idiot to carry guns around here...our gun laws are just fine thank you very much...as said in another post the only downside is our justice system that will probably only give killer a slap on the wrist for this...that's the only thing that needs to be changed

reply to post by darktears


well as long as you guys are fine with the head choppin crazies, i guess its all ok.
have fun.

reply to post by TheRepublic


Sorry to burst your bubble we don't have head choppin crazies here...how many times has this happened here before??

reply to post by aLinkToThePast


I think the premise behind the statement is that if everyone knows everyone else has a weapon the chances are less likely that someone will attack. Yes, there are crazies with guns and knives, but to LEGALLY carry a weapon you are scrutinized through a couple months of background checks. Before you make a blanket statement about everyone that has a license carries a weapon legally you should check the statistics of those that legally carry and the number of incidents of violence they have initiated vs. those that illegally possess a weapon. You will find a VERY substantial difference.

The simple fact is, as I stated before, if you are going to kill someone or injure someone there are any number of ways to do it.....trained hand to hand fighters for instance, they can kill with their hands and the professional fighters are legally bound not to fight outside the ring. How do you make a law against that? You can't take away their arms and legs. It is easier to give everyone a gun than to try to keep them out of the hands of criminals.....if everyone had one the criminals would get what was coming to them sooner or later.

reply to post by Vasa Croe


I don't have adrenaline. It interferes with my daily activities. I've not trained in knife fighting and really have no desire to be trained in it. As for fear, if this dude showed no emotion and said nothing while gutting and decapitating the kid, I highly doubt you brandishing a weapon at him would have had much impact on his emotional state.

Would you have announced your intent to shoot the guy had you been there and drawn on him?

Originally posted by darktears
reply to post by TheRepublic

 

Sorry to burst your bubble we don't have head choppin crazies here...how many times has this happened here before??

Once is one time too many for me. As for the head choppin crazies....I have heard a few stories coming from the UK about head choppin crazies with samurai swords. Granted that is not Canada, but similar weapons laws exist. I am sure we will hear of other head choppin crazies sooner or later in the area. Once it gets started every head choppin crazy wants a piece......

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by Vasa Croe

 

I don't have adrenaline. It interferes with my daily activities. I've not trained in knife fighting and really have no desire to be trained in it. As for fear, if this dude showed no emotion and said nothing while gutting and decapitating the kid, I highly doubt you brandishing a weapon at him would have had much impact on his emotional state.

Would you have announced your intent to shoot the guy had you been there and drawn on him?

Depends on the local laws...if there is no "announcement before engagement" clause then no....I would have drawn and fired or drawn and cut. If it was GA then I am bound by law to announce my intentions. However in this circumstance, kid in process of being repeatedly stabbed, I don't think that question would come up should the attacker be killed by a concerned citizen before more innocents could be harmed. If they stuck on that law then I would say there is something VERY wrong with the legal system when a person is not allowed to defend another against an attack.

As far as the guy having fear of me brandishing a weapon....I would not expect him to. He is an attacker.....they typically have no fear as they have made the decision to attack.

reply to post by TheRepublic


apparantly you don`t think anymore - this isn`t holywood its real life - the guy getting stabbed would still die , and you would either be shot by the PD for carrying and using or get life for killing.

this isn`t a movie or counterstrike.

edit: since its not self defence , how does anyome know that its not premeditated and you didn`t set it all up?

[edit on 31/7/08 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by TheRepublic

The way it happened, there was no warning or inciting factor, no noise or disturbance.

i would argue the blood curdling scream the kid let out would count as an idication of violence.

And, exactly my point. Before you even know what's going on he's already stabbed the guy once. By the time you draw and fire, on a crowded bus I might add, who knows how many more times he is stabbed.

In this case a gun does no good. What if you are at the front of the bus and there is 8 or 9 rows of panicked people between you and the assailant? Are you still going to shoot?

[edit on 31-7-2008 by TheComte]

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
And what they may consider a large hunting knife in Canada could only be a 3 or 4" bladed knife in which case he would have to stab the victim repeatedly in order for him to die of stab wounds.

LOL. If that isn't one of the most ignorant statements I've ever read on here then I don't know what is. Ya, in Canada a "large hunting knife" is the same as "jack-knife" in the US.

That's right. Canadians don't hunt.

If you could carry a gun, then so could he (Possibly). Yes, somebody may have shot him, but he could have killed 5 or more people by then. Reaction time would mean nothing because the sudden gunshots would catch you off guard.

This is terrible, and I can't quite understand how nobody tackled the man, even if unarmed. I could not stand to do nothing in such a situation.

I have gone against odd that end with me in a pile on the floor, this is not just some decision based on nothing.

After a few more of these happen, there will be public and political debate about knife crime, and steps towards banning them. (if they haven't been banned already)

I don't believe too much in coincidences, specially not when they help governments make laws to further take away our rights and responsiblities. Call me a paranoid psycho if you like, but I'm always suspicious of robot-like people performing very public acts of violence which lead to changes in law.

reply to post by umbr45


I agree, how could all these people see something that horrible, and let it happen. It wouldn't even be a question for me, if I was sitting there my immediate reaction would be to run at the guy with eveyrthing i got no thoughts about it. THe kid has a family too, wouldn't you want someone to risk their life for your son or brother? Its just pathetic listening to that guy talk to cnn, saying how he ran off the bus, then waited a bit, then went up to the window to see if the guy was still alive, what is that gonna do? The greatest evil in this world is when good men do nothing..

Originally posted by TheComte

Originally posted by Vasa Croe
And what they may consider a large hunting knife in Canada could only be a 3 or 4" bladed knife in which case he would have to stab the victim repeatedly in order for him to die of stab wounds.

LOL. If that isn't one of the most ignorant statements I've ever read on here then I don't know what is. Ya, in Canada a "large hunting knife" is the same as "jack-knife" in the US.

That's right. Canadians don't hunt.

Wow a personal attack....very nice....I guess you would probably be one of the keyboard commando's (read cowards on bus) that would have watched in horror and done nothing to help anyone on the bus? Nice....if that is how Canadians react then when it hits the fan I am glad to be in the US where I know someone has my back and I am not waiting for the mounted cavalry to arrive a day late and a dollar short.

What some media may consider a large knife could easily be a 3 or 4" bladed knife. Honestly I would be surprised if it was any larger as hunting knives are usually used for skinning and a LARGE knife does not do that well at skinning....again.....media could be a bit more educated in this repect.