Why do many claime that there is no evidence at all?

Lately I've seen a lot of discussion regarding the lack of evidence in favore of the existence of UFO's and alien life. And after hearing allmost every skeptic say that there is no evidence what so ever I got a bit sick of their lack of knowledge about this theme. Clearly not everyone have at least taken a look at all the different sorts of alledged evidence regarding ET's and UFO's. So here in this thread I will not try to convert anyone, I'll just try to give a summery of all the alledged evidence that have gathered up over time.

Before I start, I must make it clear to everyone that some of the proclamed evidence can be controversial, and I'm not claming that all this proclamed evidence can't be explaned in other ways.

First UFO reports
The first UFO reports can actually be tracked back allmost 3500 years ago, to the wallpaintings and images and text carved out in stone from the ancient egyptians.
There have been texts telling about strange objects in the sky and the unknown beeings using them. Images carved in stone showing people standing on the ground look up at something that looks a lot like some of the alledged UFO's observed in the sky today.

Here are some images to illustrate:

What this is can be discussed, is it an alien? Is it some sort of ancient human? Or a person wearing a mask?

Other images..





I could continue with dousins of image samples here, but to see more.. just use Google.

You also have to take in consideration these images, combined with some of the ancient texts that is found that describes some strange events.

UFO Files episode Ancient Aliens expaines a lot of these aspects pretty good.
The episode can be watched HERE at Google Video!

The second place we can track UFO reports as far back as around 3500 years ago, and perhaps the best evidence from back then? The Bible.

Thruout the Bible you can find variuos images that clearly shows very UFO like objects flying in the sky. There are also some texts in the Bible that can be conected to the UFO phenomenon considering the strange happenings beeing described.

To get more in depth info about UFO's in the Bible you can check out THIS documentary.

Here are some example images that can be found:


(notice the objects in the sky)

There is also many other stories of UFO's from ancient times from other places also, India might be one of the best "evidence" from the ancient times besides Egypt and The Bible.
Many texts and images from that era found in India is describing sightseeings of saucerlike objects in the skies. I don't have to much to say about this personaly, since I've not looked that much into this part of the subject, but some of this is described shortly in the documentary Ancient Aliens linked to above.

UFO's thru time
There have been many UFO sightseeings made thru the ages and up to date, clearly that must mean that there have to be some element of truth to be found somewhere out there among all the different theories, stories and conspiracies?

I'm not going to reinvent the wheel here, but instead I'm gooing to point you to a website that gives you a summary of remarkeble events from the first known UFO report and up to the 1950s.
(continued below...)

Click here to visit the website!

Also I think this site is worth a look.

Link...

This site shows you all the best UFO pictures taken thru time from 1870 and up to today.

UFO'S TODAY
Today the subject of UFO's and ET life is mostly laught at and made fun of. The medias does for the most love to make fun when first writing of these little green men from mars and blablabla. To discuss the subject in public is a tabu, and most people wouldn't even care listening to it since they are to busy with their own lifes.
Also one of the reasons I think this is such a controversial subject today is because the numerous theories that have emerged about aliens working with a shadow gov. and stuff like that. And these are theories that have grown into beeing a part of the UFO belief today that it have destroyed a lot of the credebility of this matter.

Since this thread mostly is meant as a rough pointer to alledged evidence found thruout time, I'm going to point against two documantaries that I personally like and think gives a good insight of the UFO matter.
I could be writing pages upon pages trying do describe all matters of evidence in details, but since I, A, don't want to write my fingers of, and B, don't see any point in saying something that is said just as good er even better somewhere else, I'm just going to keep myself short and rather point you to texts, images and videos that will give a good insight.

The first documentary I will point you to is UFO - The Greatest Story Ever Denied.

The documentary can be watched online HERE!

And then it comes down to the other video, witch is more a video then a documentary... But I think it's worth having a look at.. and yes, it's about The Disclosure Project.
And the video I'm talking about as you might guess then is the video of the press conf. held for the National Press Club.

You can watch it HERE!

And the reason I think the disclosure project video is interesting is the fact of the witnesses that we hear talking here. No I'm just wondering what the chance is for so many people especially within the US Army and such things would make up such stories if it wouldn't be anything to it?
Now, when it comes to these two last videos, we are closing in on the theory regarding the gov. and the alledged Shadow Gov. knows about the UFO's and alien life, and is denying this fact to the people. When it comes to that point I want you to make up your own mind. What I think is important in this videos isn't this part about wild theories and such, but the fact of so many respecteble witnesses of high rank within the US armed forces and the CIA, FBI... NASA and such are telling that they have seen UFO's in the sky and have been told to shut up about it, and that UFO's aren't real.. doesn't exsist.

And something I also ask my self about all this high ranking witnesses, is why make up such stories? Why lie? What is it for them to gain from it other then some attention? Most of them aren't going to get rich or anything like that from it, so what's the point of them telling such stories if it wouldn't be some element of truth in them?

And also, remember remember... of all the stories, theories and such... and of all the sightseeings thruout the ages... it doesn't matter how many of them are fake... how many hoaxes we have seen...as long as at least one of them are real, it's the one thing that makes the whole difference. Just one is all that is needed.

There is also a lot of other good videos to find out there, so I would recommend that you at least see the once I've pointed out here, and use Google Video to find more.




And I do appologice for a poor buildt thread, I still need some practise in making user friendly threads with a god context set up. And also sorry for any bad english, hope you get my point here anyway. I'm not to good at making long threads in english with a good context and use of language since english is not the language I usualy use. Hope you bear with me
And this is meant as a pointer to thouse of you who are interested and that are claming that there is no evidence to be found anywhere, even thou a lot of this can be controversial, as a lot of the subjects related to this theme is, my advice is to suck up all information both in favor of and against this whole matter, and then draw your own conclution.

So please, be skeptic, but don't be prejudice and closeminded. Just because we have a lot of people screaming wolf, wolf... trying to fool us, doesn't mean that every person screaming out wolf lies.

Please feel free to add even more alledged evidence that you feel are important to this matter.
This thread is just something I put together in a short time, so I guess there is a lot that could be added, so don't hesitate to add information to it.

And I would also like to repet myself about this NOT beeing an attemt to convert any skeptic, or a try to tell something a lot of you don't know allready, but a poor attemt to show that there might be some evidence buildt up thru time that can back up the fact that UFO's is more then just a bedtime story, that it might actually be true that there is UFO's out there in the skies that are ot ET origin.

Personally I think that the fact that traces of this phenomenon can be tracked all the way back to ancient Egypt, India.. The Bibel... is a good factor that tells us that this isn't just some sort of phenomenon that exploded among the people from the start of the mid 1950s or around that time, but that it is something that have also been around for much much longer.

So, now you can start throwing all the BS at me that you want. Since that's the impression that I'm having that we are doing these days. But I'm hoping that we can discuss this subject in an civilized manner, since there is no good reason why we shouldn't be able to.

And I don't know what good this thread is going to do, just felt like smashing something together in an attemt to make a point.

And sorry for the numerous posts here, couldn't fit everthing into one post.


EDIT:

And please be gentle, this is my first actual thread here at ATS.

[edit on 30-7-2008 by TopSecretArea]

I think its great. I was a tad put off by the title, as I thought it would be your typical newbie thread, but there is some great stuff here.

Star and Flagged, I'm impressed.

Thanks there SantaClaus.

I can agree upon the title, didn't figure out anything good so just went with the first that came into my mind.

Hope someone can find this useful and perhaps also be able to look at the UFO and ET matter from a different angle, not only the angle that includes people among us working along side aliens perfoming black operations and tests on humans. I'm not discarding it to be a possibility, but like I said.. a possibility among many other aspects of these theme. Perhaps we haven't been able to make any contact with them what so ever and thats why our government is trying to deny their existence because they still don't know themselfs what this is just yet?

If you start thinking you can come up with numerous different theories about UFO's, ET's.. aliens living among us.. and yeah.. who know what part of the theories out there that contains a little bit of truth in them?
I mean, really.. hundreds upon thousends of people around the world can't be joined together in a global hoax? I mean, whats the ods of that? Althou I guess anything is possible in the world we live in today!

Originally posted by TopSecretArea
And after hearing allmost every skeptic say that there is no evidence what so ever I got a bit sick of their lack of knowledge about this theme.

I agree...good "out of the starting gate" thread.

But (and there's always a "but"), the statement I quoted is less than accurate. I realize you may not have spent much time here, but what you will discover is that the majority of the skeptics agree there is evidence....but the evidence is not clearly pointing to the conclusions made by many.

It's a pretty bold statement to say "almost every skeptic"....and I don't think it's supported by the actual comments made by skeptics on this forum.

reply to post by TopSecretArea

most people wouldn't even care listening to it since they are to busy with their own lifes.

The funny thing is most people would believe in UFOs if they were actually paying attention to something other than their short blip of an existence! As Penny pointed out.. the final answer may not be ET in the way we think of it. But there is an overwhelming amount of evidence for something being out of the ordinary (whatever ordinary is).

Good thread. Star & flag

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by TopSecretArea
And after hearing allmost every skeptic say that there is no evidence what so ever I got a bit sick of their lack of knowledge about this theme.

But (and there's always a "but"), the statement I quoted is less than accurate. I realize you may not have spent much time here, but what you will discover is that the majority of the skeptics agree there is evidence....but the evidence is not clearly pointing to the conclusions made by many.

It's a pretty bold statement to say "almost every skeptic"....and I don't think it's supported by the actual comments made by skeptics on this forum.

On the first thing there, I do agree with you on that matter. And as I also stated, a lot of the evidence are controversial and could be explained other ways as well. But I'm not shure I fully agree on the last bit there, about evidence not poiting to the conclusions made by mande, but then again that might be because the conclusions many are making is the fact that aliens live among us and is working with a shadow government.

And to all skeptics I strongly wish to appologice. The therm I used; allmost every skeptic, I now realise that this is to judge you all at once witch wasn't my attention at all. Bad use of words of me there.
What I should have said there were that I do hear a lot of skeptics claming so. But then again, like MrPenny stated, this might be because a lot of the believers (not everyone, but a huge part of them) do believe the fact that aliens are allready visiting us and working among us, witch is a huge claim to make that ofcourse will rais questions.

In by belief on this matter I think that it is important to skeptic, but still open minded to the possibilties as well. And you don't need to believe in every theory out there in order to believe the fact that some UFO's might be of ET origin and ET's have or are still exploring our planet.

And perhaps they are just like we are, they are exploring our world just like we perhaps would have explored their world. By not making any direct contact at once, but explore our world and how we live before attemting to make contact with us. That could be one way of looking at it.

reply to post by Scramjet76


I think your correct on that matter there Scarmjet76, more people would perhaps give this subject more attention and been more open minded about it if they just paid attention to it.
Also like Penny pointed out yeah, I myself would also say that it is important to see the fact that everything the conspiracies tells us about alien-human hybrids, shadow gov. working with aliens and all that could just as well be a bunch of BS. And I do also think that this is also causing a lot of people to look away from this subject since they think it's stupidity to believe in that, witch I can understand.
It's important to be open minded to every aspect of this, because it may turn out to be completly different to all of the things we might have imagined us.

Originally posted by MrPenny
But (and there's always a "but"), the statement I quoted is less than accurate. I realize you may not have spent much time here, but what you will discover is that the majority of the skeptics agree there is evidence....but the evidence is not clearly pointing to the conclusions made by many.

It's a pretty bold statement to say "almost every skeptic"....and I don't think it's supported by the actual comments made by skeptics on this forum.

Exactly. TThe generic skeptic pooh-poohing UFOs due to lack of evidence is a straw man argument. I'm a particularly difficult skeptic, myself, however I recognize that there's a a lot of evidence out there. In fact, there's way too much evidence for the amount of proof that we have. We're slopping over with evidence.

Now, what this is evidence of is another question altogether. Some people say it's evidence of space aliens, but nobody's been able to convincingly connect the dots on that notion yet. I personally think the space aliens notion shows a sad lack of imagination. It strikes me as lazy, coming to the conclusion that, "What else could it be?" Because it could be lots of things, including something completely unknown at this point.

Lately, I've been leaning a little more toward the time machine idea, although there's no good proof of that, either, there's just less of a leap that has to be made by not just assuming aliens exist and using them for an explanation. There's no good positive proof for either of those notions.

Putting up a lot of images that might or might not be interpreted as relating to "aliens" is not really proving anything. An image by itself, whether it's a photo or a video or a picture painted on a cave wall, doesn't prove anything.

Originally posted by Nohup
Putting up a lot of images that might or might not be interpreted as relating to "aliens" is not really proving anything. An image by itself, whether it's a photo or a video or a picture painted on a cave wall, doesn't prove anything.

Well actually I didn't point to it as any concrete evidence of aliens in the way we think of them. But proof of an existence of something we don't know what is. And also I did say a lot of the so called evidence is contriversial, witch most of the causes of this matter is.

I do agree with you on the point about this not beeing anything that we know of, but something that is completly unknown to us at this point in time. Witch was also something I tried to tell in the posts above, that the things we think of as alien life forms might turn out to be something totaly different.
So actually, I haven't claimed any of the proclamed evidence to anything pointing in the way of what we think of as aliens and UFOs, but evidence of something that is not of human making and perhaps not what we think it is at all.

First off, nice thread. Good to see a well addressed discussion.

I will just make notes while reading your points.

Just because someone draws something does not make it real. So, curious and interesting yes, proof of aliens no.

The bible... worst novel i've ever read. lol.

"There have been many UFO sightseeings made thru the ages and up to date, clearly that must mean that there have to be some element of truth"

Yes there a lots of UFO's, no proof of them being from extraterrestrial origin. So UFO reports are just that, reports of unidentified flying objects, it requires a leap to get to Alien.

As for high ranking officers saying the aliens exist, for every 1 saying they do, there are plenty more that say they don't. So why do you choose to only listen to the minority? Because it helps your case. I do find the Astronaut accounts quite compelling, but certainly not proof.

Personally, i can understand why people may believe, and there are some mysterious events that they can use to fuel their beliefs. I just hope one day they get the clear piece of evidence needed. What I don't understand is why some believers think that the "evidence" you posted above is UNDENIABLE TRUTH. And then go on to say skeptics are close-minded.

I agree with you on a lot of your points there Hamlin.

And it sertanly doesn't make it real just because someone makes a drawing that looks similar to what we would call a flying saucer. But I would also like to emphesise the fact that the drawing should be taken in consideration with some of the texts describing the UFO phenomenon at thouse times, and then wonder if there is any connection between them?

And also like I've stated, this it's not a fact that evidence of alien life have to be anywhere close to what the most of us think when we read the worlds ET, aliens and UFO's.

My point is that there is a lot of evidence of something beeing out of the ordinary in the way we think of something beeing ordinary, but then again, what exactly is ordinary?

Edit: Context

[edit on 30-7-2008 by TopSecretArea]

Well yes, that is true. There is lots of unexplained phenomenon that requires indepth study. And i can see why people make the leap to extraterrestrial life, i have no problems with this, in fact i support it I log on here in the hope that solid proof will be revealed.

My only problem is with the "believers" who do not consider the other possibilities and then make slanderous claims against "skeptics". I think everyone should be skeptic, its better than blindly accepting everything. To question and analyse is surely better than just accepting.

But yes, I agree that these things can be interpreted as alien life, but it is not proof. And it is proof that I seek.

You're absolutely correct there my firend. We shouldn all be skeptic and not swallow everything we see, read and are told.

I like to look at myself as a believing skeptic. I believe in the possibilites, but I doubt a lot of the elements we can't give supporting evidence to. I believe that we have enough evidence to conclude the fact that SOMETHING is out of the ordinary, but not enough to conclude exactly what it is.

We can find evidence of a lot of the UFO's beeing of terrestrial origin, but there is also a lot of cases pointing other ways. It might be alien life in some shape or form, it might be a cosmic phenonmenon we are not aware of at this time. But clearly it must be something, and it deffinitly requires an indepth study in order to come closer to the final truth.

The simple fact is, that of all the subjects on all the forums on this site, the UFO/Alien theory is the one we can all get behind.

*Note: By UFO/Alien theory, I do not mean it in the broad expansive list of different theories, just that there are some sort of flying vehicles in or around our world that carry some sort of different lifeform.*

There is just so much evidence. The more we dig, we find history on the subject. The more we look, we expand upon that history with contemporary experiences.

I must say, that although I call myself a "skeptic," I would find myself very disappointed and actually a bit flabbergasted if these phenomenon we'ren't real. I think that might fall more under "belief" than "skepticism."

Again, great thread, I am going over all the links over and over. My favorite is the large-eyed creature in the painting.

Any skeptic worth his or her salt wont say there is no evidence. Obviously there is, or we wouldn't have skeptics, now would we?

What most of us skeptics would agree on is that there is a complete lack of logic, reason and common sense surrounding the pile of evidence available, making it near impossible to push the subject further into the light.

reply to post by SantaClaus


Couldn't have said it better myself. It's just the way I look into this subject of UFO's and aliens.

And I think it's important to remember that even thou there is a lot of UFO reports that can be related to eartly explenations, there is still a lot that can't be explained in any earthly way, shape or form. And as I said earlier on in the thread, we don't need them all to be real, as long as at least one is.

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
Any skeptic worth his or her salt wont say there is no evidence. Obviously there is, or we wouldn't have skeptics, now would we?

What most of us skeptics would agree on is that there is a complete lack of logic, reason and common sense surrounding the pile of evidence available, making it near impossible to push the subject further into the light.

I like the point you'r making here.

I do also believe that a lot of believers on this matter would agree with the fact that there is a lack of logic, reasons and common sense put into this pile of whatever you might call it for us to move forward on the subject. It's important to see things in the light of others, and not only deny the claimes of the skeptics. We need to listen and learn more of each other, prehaps in that way we can discover new things we haven't thought of earlier makin it possible to keep looking even deeper into this.

[edit on 30-7-2008 by TopSecretArea]

The evidence, short of a public landing by whomever is piloting these things, is a waste of time right now. That's my point. As long as this subject remains the butt of every newscaster's joke then evidence be damned. And we have no one but ourselves to blame. Daily, and I do mean daily, posters on this very board work overtime to ensure that the ufology "nutter" stereotype is perpetuated (seriously, have you read through the thread titles alone? Enough to make a sane person interested in this hobby cringe) And all over the internet, this stereotype is enforced over and over again.

So, short of in plain sight evidence, it doesn't matter. Like my signature says, it will take years to remove the stigma of idiocy from this subject before it will be taken seriously...and that can only happen when we start policing ourselves a little better. I am sick and tired of this subject being represented by the nutjobs, gullible fools, and ignorant weirdos. Seems the more questionable and gullible you are, the more airtime you get. Sad, really, really sad.

Don't get me started

There is a difference between a skeptic and a debunker. Many skeptics are debunkers, while most are willing to take a look at the evidence.
This is a very good thread, and flying discs have been seen throughout history.