[HOAX]They're real.[HOAX]

reply to post by dreams n chains


My attempts to procure evidence to help prove his story was met with accusations and insults. He will remain on ignore until he contacts me to discuss methods of verifying his story or until an owner decides this is a hoax and tags the site as such. At that time, he will be banned for hoaxing the boards.

Out of curiousity, if any of you photographed a ufo, would you destroy the original images?

Well if it's fake it's a good fake but i'm no expert

The 2nd image which was apparently suspicious to some members, appears to be not to me.

reply to post by Crakeur


No Sir, I would NOT!! I am not an expert or pro, nor any kind of investigator, but just from hanging around the internet I know exactly what to do.

LOCK the images in the camera. (i. e. protect from erase)
copy them to my computer and also to a backup (USB drive or something)
Upload the unaltered, original images anywhere anyone wants them for analysis.
Be willing to send an analyst or investigator the entire camera with the images if necessary.
That's what *I* would do if I caught anything (UFO, ghost, anomaly, bigfoot, etc.) on my digital camera.

Like you, I can't imagine anyone who really caught a UFO on digital camera deleting the original image.

reply to post by nablator


(peeks out from under the bed, sure the echelon of UFOs from the Wire Frame nebula are invasionating. Puts TV on Paw-seay (a French term), and meekly bids)

FIVE hundred quatloos for the newcomer.

Nice job Nab.

On the photo. "Ooo-ooh pretty!" (TGA réponse de défaut)



[edit on 29-7-2008 by Badge01]

reply to post by Crakeur


Hell no I wouldn't destroy it. In fact I would start taking immediate steps to ensure chain-of-custody and documentation.

It would take real cojones to post a photo here, but if a picture was going to be examined for validity this would be the place to post it.

What would be nice is if we can concentrate on debunking the actual photos objectively. The problem with this thread is that fully 80% of it is folks just saying, "Fake! Hoax! You Suck!" with no substantive content.

This includes the "I could make that in thirty minutes with Notepad but I won't FAKE FAKE FAKE!"

Unfortunately the guys who were examining the EXIF data and the actual images were drowned out by all the me-too people trying to reproduce it.

Just because something can be reproduced or approximated does not prove it is fake or generated.

I think folks who offer photos should post them knowing they will be scrutinized and if they honestly believe what they are posting is real to check their ego at the door.

I also believe that when solid proof arrives it will be here first exactly because of the rigorous and healthy skepticism it will be put through first.

Let's face it - Most of us believe in UFOs and we really want full disclosure, but we are unwilling to take a stand until an authentic piece of evidence has run the gauntlet here.

This is what makes ATS great. You better have your feces consolidated before you drop in here and start making extraordinary claims.

reply to post by Crakeur


No, I would not ever delete original files. I use adobe to process my photos, but would not use it if I ever had a photo/video of what I thought was a credible UFO shot.

Just for the record, I think the OP's actions indicate a strong possibility of hoaxed photos, however I appreciate the way you're going about it -- giving him a chance to "put up or shut up" -- in effect causing the OP to debunk himself. Kudos.

Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by dreams n chains

 

My attempts to procure evidence to help prove his story was met with accusations and insults. He will remain on ignore until he contacts me to discuss methods of verifying his story or until an owner decides this is a hoax and tags the site as such. At that time, he will be banned for hoaxing the boards.

Out of curiousity, if any of you photographed a ufo, would you destroy the original images?

Above Top Secret supposedly........ conspiracy and cover-up......... heh.

Now you have closed Trogs "This whole thing is a scam" thread so that it will be buried and unseen by so many members here.

Glad I saw it all.

What a downright shame. I was really getting into this site and was hoping to settle in here. Now there is no way I could. What a downright shame.

Originally posted by Heike
reply to post by Crakeur

 

No Sir, I would NOT!! I am not an expert or pro, nor any kind of investigator, but just from hanging around the internet I know exactly what to do.

LOCK the images in the camera. (i. e. protect from erase)
copy them to my computer and also to a backup (USB drive or something)
Upload the unaltered, original images anywhere anyone wants them for analysis.
Be willing to send an analyst or investigator the entire camera with the images if necessary.
That's what *I* would do if I caught anything (UFO, ghost, anomaly, bigfoot, etc.) on my digital camera.

Like you, I can't imagine anyone who really caught a UFO on digital camera deleting the original image.

Yes! Yes!

If you are going to try and post a digital picture you need to make every effort to ensure it's validity.

It's an unfortunate side effect of digital photography that it is easier to fake, but I belief when proof comes out it will be in a digital form.

1 - Take the pic and save the RAW image immediately

2 - Lock the media and take it out of the camera and put it somewhere safe

3 - Post it as soon as you can so there is no time passing that could be interpreted that you altered it.

4 - Be prepared to get flamed and just have a thick skin. You will be taken more seriously if you post here first and leave out your happy shiny revelatory experience.

5 - Don't post it to a MMORPG board and expect us to take you seriously

reply to post by dreams n chains


Did you expect to join a happy shiny family that takes everything at face value?

If you are seeking the truth there are dozens of much more compelling cases on this board than this singular thread.

Don't give up! The truth is not 'out there', it is 'in here'!

reply to post by dreams n chains


I'm glad you did too. The thread is still there but it is closed as it is pointless. The member will be given every opportunity to prove his claim. If he's hoaxing, he'll be banned. That's how we work here. there's no conspiracy at play.

Originally posted by emsed1
Unfortunately the guys who were examining the EXIF data and the actual images were drowned out by all the me-too people trying to reproduce it.

Just because something can be reproduced or approximated does not prove it is fake or generated.

This is why I asked him for the original, unedited images. I am not an expert and I know nothing about photoshop or digital imaging but I do know enough to take the original, unedited images and let an expert look at them. I wanted to do that with Trog's photos so we could silence the critics but he, apparently, doesn't want to do that. Why on earth would he post photos and not want them to be proven to be real?

Note trog81's poor excuse for PSing the images and deleting the originals. It was to reduce their size:
"I edited my ufo photoshop after I took them so the file size wouldn't be 2megs"
Source: www.abovetopsecret.com...

This does not make sense at all. A 2 Mpixel camera does not produce 2 MB JPEGs. Especially with a lot of empty sky in the background. They should be 400-600 KB. His photoshopped image files are actually bigger, 984 KB, because he saved them with a low level of JPEG compression.

The real reason why he didn't provide convincing original pictures is because there is no UFO in them. After compositing the wire mesh in Photoshop (it's very easy to do), he doesn't know how to remove Photoshop metadata and change dates in EXIF to match his story.

All in all, a very poor hoax.

Originally posted by nablator

Originally posted by bloodcircle
[Ignoring the added part of the pic, how did you get an image of what appears to be the same street, slightly different angle, at night?
[edit on 7/29/2008 by bloodcircle]

prestonberryworth is the same person as trog81.

He "totally supports" trog81, and accuses ATS of being owned by the feds, just like trog81.

For reference:

Where he admits deleting the original files after photoshoping them:
Post by trog81

Supporting post by sock puppet:
Post by prestonberryworth

Not true, I'm sure the mods could verify that with IP addresses. Anyways that nite time photo was posted by trog. No one could see it since he is muted. I found it wheb hitting reply. I added the little green man. The orignal post from trog has now been edited to just say 'no'. Even more proof of a conspiracy IMHO.

Props to all sides who seem to be continuing with the 'proceed with caution' approach.

Props to Crakeur for dropping by and asking good questions. Note that he confirms that no one is acting hastily. I support this strongly. Requests for 'immediate banning' and deleting the thread are not helpful and are contra-indicated, imo. ATS has been good about keeping the posts but after careful deliberation, putting the hoax tags on them. (some might say 'yes, with but one or two instances which remain inconclusive out of hundreds')

This is truly an example of all of ATS acting as a team. Inspiring.

The OP, at least initially was helpful and posted images immediately. So good start. Unfortunately we've hit a minor roadblock which I hope he will help resolve.

2 cents.

reply to post by prestonberryworth

And what would be your motivation for adding a little green man to trog81's picture that no one can see anymore??? First you say you "totally believe the op", and them you mock him by editing his pictures with Photoshop? BTW I agree the night picture was done by trog81, it was the same camera, same day, same house. trog81 realized too late he shouldn't post a picture taken at night the same day because he forgot to mention the UFO was back at 8:52 PM. So he edited his post to leave only "no".

You're Dr Jekill, and trog81 is Mr Hyde, right? A different IP address does not prove you're not him.

I was with OP in the beginning.. having read all 10 pages I was giving him the benefit of doubt but after hearing his excuses "Im new dont know what U2U is" "I used photoshop to resize picture only" "I dont want to post original because i want to stay anonymous" people tell him how to post original and remain anonymous his reply "oh I deleted the orignals off my phone because I had posted them already" WTF c'mon then you attack a Site Admin with accusations and saying the site is CIA FBI or whatever I can understand if they are real being angry and frustrated but you deleted the originals off your phone???? WHY!

There is ways of getting the originals back nothing on memory is ever really "deleted" unless you destroy the device.

Prediction Trog's phone gets ran over by van parked outside of his house phone is destroyed now there is no way to get the original images back

reply to post by Crakeur

No I wouldn't destroy the originals, and would secure the camera/phone and all evidence as best I could. He even said I know how these things work when you post a story they want pics. So he must know originals should be kept.

He claims he took pics same day, around 10 am, but the pics show two dates - 3 days apart, one taken in the evening, one taken in the morning. His story was flawed fom the beginning.

Couple of things I want to clear up for Ken10, and others (I think it was from the other closed thread).

1. I'm 99.9% sure these pics are fake, BUT they very closely resemble what I saw... sans the wire mesh.

2. I am not in any way, shape, or form associated with Trog or that other guy, Preston.

3. Crakeur, if you're still reading this, I have been having probs with recieving U2Us as well. I've written to tech support and the suggestion box, but it hasn't been resolved yet. Is it possible that this Trog guy was experiencing the same thing and this all stems from a tech related misunderstanding?

reply to post by Crakeur


The only time I would destroy the original images of a UFO sighting is after I'd become incredibly discouraged and wanting to erase the thing from my life. But that would take several months/years/decades and a really low (and likely fleeting) drop in my mood. Stupid impulse. But the day of the sighting? No. Those images would have a whole lot of emotion (fear, amazement, pure and utter awe) attached to them. I'd make copies.

Oh and for the note, I've been having some issues with U2U's as well. Not that it really matters much.

Hello,
I am a photoshop artist and I ran this image through my photoshop program and blew it up. To me it looks like a fan with no blades in it. I want to believe but in my opinion this is not a UFO.

Originally posted by Flux83. Crakeur, if you're still reading this, I have been having probs with recieving U2Us as well. I've written to tech support and the suggestion box, but it hasn't been resolved yet. Is it possible that this Trog guy was experiencing the same thing and this all stems from a tech related misunderstanding?

the u2u issue took place after I sent him the u2u. as to your problem, I'll look into the complaint but, if you can access them to send, try sending me one.