Iran ends cooperation with UN nuclear arms probe

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by Harlequin
yeah cause the USA never , ever supports terror groups do they

Do you even know why groups are called terrorists? I guess not. Terror groups are named as such because they purposefully attack innocent woman and children in order to make a point instead of a government or the military.

therefore America should also be considered as a terrorist state-according to your definition of terrorism.

heres a great wikipedia article that outlines how "the United States has been accused of having directly committed acts of state terrorism, as well as funding, training, and harboring individuals and groups who engage in terrorism"
en.wikipedia.org...

see the double standards?

reply to post by WhatTheory

See, now how does that bring anything worthy to the discussion? Answer: It doesn't.

Oh and your contributing to this thread so well...

Quit playing dodgeball, the fact you just can't stand to face here is, America sponsors terrorists.

They've done it in the past and their doing it right now.
And they've done it on a level which supersedes by far Iran's sponsorship of Hezbollah and the Shiites.

They literally threw cash and weapons at Right-wing fanatics all across the world during the Cold War and they didn't ask any questions about what they wanted to do with it:
www.fas.org...

Now you may think this was a remnant of the Cold War paranoia BUT it still continued after the fall of Communism:

That's the message sent with the recent gift of $43 million to the Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, the most virulent anti-American violators of human rights in the world today. The gift, announced last Thursday by Secretary of State Colin Powell,

www.thenation.com...

^^That was 4 months before 9/11. Little bit of a shot in the foot hey?

You need to see the hypocrisy here.
America is telling Iran to stop sponsoring terrorists who kill innocent civvies right?

Yet America has sponsored right-wing extremists and dictators who have killed millions combined, and yet suddenly they suffer a little Amnesia and seem to think everyone was born yesterday and hopefully no one will remember where Iraq got it's chemical weapons from, or who helped the Taliban or who funded the Contras.

That some seriously deluded thinking.
They've gotten so complacent with their influence over the world they seem to think nobody will stand up to them any more.

Their wrong. The Iranians can play "Proxy Wars" too if the US really wants.

Hell America even sold weapons to the damn Iranians back in the 1980's, while also selling weapons to Iraq during their conflict:

* August 20, 1984. 96 TOW anti-tank missiles
* September 14, 1984. 408 more TOWs
* November 24, 1984. 18 Hawk anti-aircraft missiles
* February 17, 1986. 500 TOWs
* February 27, 1986. 500 TOWs
* May 24, 1986. 508 TOWs, 240 Hawk spare parts
* August 4, 1986. More Hawk spares
* October 28, 1986. 500 TOWs

query.nytimes.com...

There was no ideological discrimination here. They were simply looking for war profits.
The US didn't care. It sold to enemies, fascists, religious extremists even communists.

And now America wants to talk about State-sponsored terrorism?
Now that's RICH.

All of these bad deeds, all of these hypocritical acts and falsely disguised, underhanded deals come back to bite the US in the ass.
It just sows the seeds for more and more terrorism, insurgency and extremism.
The groups and people the US funded and aided are extremely unpredictable, maniacal fanatics; and sometime later down the road they simply turn on you.

Look at the pattern:

The Taliban were once the US's friends, they used your own weapons against you when you invaded them.
America gave Iraq weapons when they were an Ally, then they used them against the US during 1991.
You gave the Iranians weapons and cash, now your going to war with them.

You see how it's all counter-productive and just backfires in the end?
It's a horrible cycle.

You keep funding extremists and you'll swell their ranks and embolden their cause. It doesn't do anyone any good, it DOESN'T MATTER IF IT AIDS YOU IN THE SHORT TERM.

The world is now a powderkeg of violent, radicalism and extremism and America's spending spree during the Cold War certainly didn't help that.

Face Facts. The Double Standard exists and while the US feels it's acceptable to fund terrorists then as far as I'm concerned so can other nations.
What gives them the right to dictate who can and can't?

Especially when they preach nothing but bullsh*t to the world:
"War on Terror", "Capturing Osama", "Evil ideologies", "Axis of Evil", etc...

Get a grip, America is no better than the rest of the world.

Originally posted by aboveandbeyond94
therefore America should also be considered as a terrorist state-according to your definition of terrorism.

How do you figure that?
The U.S. does not intentionally target innocent civilians.
Come on, stop being silly.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Oh and your contributing to this thread so well...

Umm...yes, but apparently you don't like my answers.
Please, that comment was refering to the poster throwing out insults. So please stop being disingenuous with your remarks.

Their wrong. The Iranians can play "Proxy Wars" too if the US really wants.

And they will pay the price. So what's your point?

Hell America even sold weapons to the damn Iranians back in the 1980's, while also selling weapons to Iraq during their conflict:

So what?
I'm sure you have heard the expression: Guns don't kill people but people do.

The Taliban were once the US's friends, they used your own weapons against you when you invaded them.
America gave Iraq weapons when they were an Ally, then they used them against the US during 1991.
You gave the Iranians weapons and cash, now your going to war with them.

Again, so what?
Who says people will always remain friends. Things and people change over time. Is there some sort of law which states people must remain friends forever? Answer: no.

You see how it's all counter-productive and just backfires in the end?

No.

What gives them the right to dictate who can and can't?

When they start killing the soldiers and civilians of the U.S. and it's allies. Simple really.

Get a grip, America is no better than the rest of the world.

You are entitled to your wrong, twisted and ignorant opinion.
Please get your head out of the sand. Thanks!

[edit on 25-7-2008 by WhatTheory]

War with Iran is a bad idea.

I would appeal to everyone's self-preservation, at the least.

The Straight of Hormuz would be easy for them to blockade. That means no oil from the middle East.

A successful attack from the US or our Proxy could only work with bombings and nukes. Other than it being a huge war crime -- the fallout would affect the world. Nuclear fallout is much more pernicious and a bigger health factor with Cancer than any of us realize -- it's why Governments the world over banned above-ground testing, and didn't make people too aware of the health effects.

All the nonsense about Iran being a threat is pure propaganda from the same people who have been lying to us for the past 8 years. We only know that the CIA determined they have no nukes from a whistle-blower, and UN and nuclear regulatory inspections have also concurred. I can imagine, through the desire for self-preservation, that any nation would want to get or pretend to have WMDs because they know what happens when they don't.

Iran could have been one of our greatest allies. This is 100% a failure because of Bush. After 9/11, they had the greatest outpouring of sympathy for the US. The nation is mostly youthful from so many previous, wasteful wars. And the majority of the populace is sick of the Mullahs and wants to be like the west (or did). Their anti-American ruler only got elected by the slimmest margin a few weeks after Bush's "Axis of Evil" speech, which must have been a surprise because they were sending troops to help us fight al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

In fact, the Bush administration thought they were such a threat -- that during their administration, exports to Iran have gone up TEN TIMES. We just stopped shipping them F-14 parts a year ago due to public outrage.

The talk of Iran's involvement in Iraq is hard to prove or disprove -- we have the same talking heads telling us what to think on this matter. I wouldn't trust the news out of Iraq under Bush as I would coming from Baghdad Bob when Saddam was in power. But with Iran surrounded and two aircraft carriers in their area -- I'd say they'd be stupid not to be worried. Saudi Arabia's involvement is much greater, and "al Qaeda in Iraq" is another word for Saudi militants. The CIA is funding an offshoot of al Qaeda that is blowing up thinks in Iran -- the two groups couldn't be more at odds with each other. But hey, why not go after them for Pearl Harbor, right?

The attack on Iran is 100% propaganda. Driven by a need to fluff up the economy a little more since demand is falling, and to get more resources that will benefit the multinational oil corporations who sponsored it. There is NO SECURITY ISSUE for the US in Iran.

reply to post by WhatTheory


utter comedy - in your blinded hatred of all rag heads - you fail to grasp the notion that the USA supports and sponsers terrorism!

attack governemnt? so teh group the iranian security forces captured , after planting a bomb ina mosque with equipment paid for by the usa - was furthering those idealistic goals you so strive for? reality check - the USA is as dirty as teh rest of them.


stop being so blinded by the flag and deafened by the pledge you cannot see the truth before you

edit dbl

[edit on 25/7/08 by Harlequin]

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by aboveandbeyond94
therefore America should also be considered as a terrorist state-according to your definition of terrorism.

How do you figure that?

The U.S. does not intentionally target innocent civilians.

Come on, stop being silly.

Total crap.
We trained Contras at the School of the Americas. Most of the terrorism for corporate interests was the result of US backing and training. The book "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" covers it in detail from a guy who used to be a part of the program.

The Shock and Awe on Iraq definitely hit a lot of civilians. It was an illegal war. Just because people are in uniforms doesn't mean something ISN'T terrorism. The mentality in the US makes people who have to deal with a more powerful enemy by not wearing a Uniform the only crime.

The BCCI investigation, as well as showing how the CIA was involved in the drug trade in the US, tracked finances from banks in the US to banks in Dubai that was used to fund terrorism. Face it, the new economic model for cheap resources is to provoke both sides in a country into a civil war, and then just give a discount on weapons to the side that is losing.

They don't put this on the TV News on CNN -- so I guess it doesn't happen.

No, the US is perhaps the worlds largest funder of terrorism. China's oil-inspired cleansing in Chad and Darfur seems to be taking the lead at the moment by a slim margin.

They don't call attention to these operations, so that people can rah-rah-rah the flag, and support crass commercialism as a form of Patriotism. We look the other way as long as we can keep the good life.

Why do you think anyone in the world want to throw away their life and bomb someone? Its kind of hard to find this sentiment in a place that isn't getting bombed.

The religious fanaticism is part of this picture. But really, this is part of our economic system. The military keeps a few brush fires going to keep weapons our major export. To keep people from getting organized and making big armies unnecessary. You can track most of the worlds problems; food, war, oil right back to the companies that profit from them.

Originally posted by Harlequin
utter comedy - in your blinded hatred of all rag heads - you fail to grasp the notion that the USA supports and sponsers terrorism!

I don't hate 'rag heads' as you put it. Where did I say that?
Please stop projecting your bigoted thoughts into my actual words. Good grief!

The USA does not sponser terrorism. Stop being silly.

stop being so blinded by the flag and deafened by the pledge you cannot see the truth before you

Pull your head out of the sand and stop being brainwashed by whatever liberal media is giving you your talking points. Boy, I swear, you libroids make me laugh.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
The Shock and Awe on Iraq definitely hit a lot of civilians.

I did not say otherwise. So what's your point?
You do know the difference between intentionally targeting civilians and NOT intentionally targeting civilians right?

It was an illegal war.

Really? What specific law was broken? How specifically is it illegal besides you not agreeing with it.
This is just your ignorant opinion.

reply to post by WhatTheory


www.globalpolicy.org...

the Congressional authorization for force that Bush used to launch the invasion of Iraq. However, if you read Section 3, paragraph B, Bush was required to prove to the Congress that Iraq was in violation of UN Resolutions by still being in possession of weapons of mass destruction, and secondly, that Iraq was behind 9-11. Both claims have since been disproved and discredited, and appear to be created by the Pentagon Office at the heart of the latest Israeli spy scandal.
www.whatreallyhappened.com...

The UN Claims that the US attack on Iraq was illegal;
www.nytimes.com...

Saddam was also not in violation of UN sanctions according to Hans Blicks the chief inspector.

How do you lose 270 tons of $100 dollar bills in Iraq, by the way?

I'm just going to not bother you with my uninformed opinion anymore. So that will be one less bit of reality you need to ignore.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira



Thanks for that post. I am done playing with these people. You really have to work hard to be an Ostrich.

If you want to "convince" such people, and have more stamina than I do, this is a great website that talks in terms that a Republican or Libertarian can appreciate; www.davidbrin.com...

Bad news.

One of my favorite "inside the spook house" websites is pointing to some serious movements towards Iran;

www.waynemadsenreport.com...

Operation Brimstone naval exercise girds for attack on Iran. US, France, UK, and Brazil in exercise off North Carolina.

Three missile officers at Minot AFB fell asleep with nuclear firing codes unattended. Defense Secretary Gates was not informed.

Israeli Chief of General Staff in Washington for Iran military strategy talks. Ashkenazi to meet Haldey, Negroponte, and Mullen. Israeli general meets with Cheney and says US and Israel ust be ready to use force against Iran.

Iraqi offensive on border province with Iran. Diyala province targeted for crackdown.

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
I'm just going to not bother you with my uninformed opinion anymore.

Whew! Thanks!
I don't know how much more dribble I could take.

A) The UN has nothing to do with U.S. laws so this point you made is moot regarding the war being illegal.
B) Congress could stop funding at anytime if they thought it was really illegal. So again, your point is moot.

Just as I thought. There is nothing but your opinion causing the war to be illegal.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by WhatTheory]

Originally posted by absente
reply to post by heliosprime

 

Don't think that IF there is a war between Iran and Israel/US we (the EU) will back you up again. Also, I don't think Russia or China will actually go to war because of Iran - they will back them up with weapons, money but thats it.

Those country's have too much interests in the EU and the US, witch give them more profit then Iran will do. Russia can't afford loosing their Oil and Gas deals with Europe, so there will be no military reaction.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by Thebudweiserstuntman]

[edit on 25-7-2008 by Thebudweiserstuntman]

reply to post by WhatTheory

And they will pay the price. So what's your point?

And when is America going to pay it's long overdue debt for sponsoring some of most reprehensible people and governments in the world, who've killed combined millions?
Huh?

Talk crap buddy... if anyone needs to pay for their sins, the US can first. There's have been due since 1945 I would say.
They could start with those hundreds of thousands of dead Japanese civilians and then work their way on from there.

I'm sure you have heard the expression: Guns don't kill people but people do.

Riiight.

So I give a gun to a known psychopathic murderer and he surprise, surprise he shoots some poor fellow!

I am just as guilty as that man is for killing a person. Because through gross negligence I gave him access to a means to kill people.
I believe in the US you call that "Accessory to a Homicide."
That justice system burns doesn't it?

The US has provided terrorist/extremist groups with the means to kill untold countless innocent lives.

So then I guess it's okay for Iran to supply Hezbollah with rockets to bomb Israel by your logic?

"Hey rockets don't kill people! If they should fly into a house blame Hezbollah, we didn't push the button"

Pffft yeah when we sponsor terrorists "we're fighting for freedom", when anyone else does it, it's terrorism!

Utterly flawed logic. Quite similiar to the one your beloved Fuhrer used to invade Iraq I might add.

Who says people will always remain friends. Things and people change over time.

Exactly. Why give these "friends" weapons of mass destruction?
The US knew exactly who they were dealing with when they supported the Taliban, the Contras, Saddam, and Pinochet.

Doesn't take a genius to see these are extreme hardliners who see nothing wrong with whacking off scores of people to keep themselves in power.

Talk about drinking the Kool-Aid, so you think America should give every wild-eyed nutjob and his followers their own private army & symphony orchestra?

When they start killing the soldiers and civilians of the U.S. and it's allies. Simple really.

Tell that to all the Iranian families who lost a loved one under the hands of the Shah, the American-backed puppet.

Tell that to the Russians, who lost thousands of men to guerrillas who had American arms and funding.

Tell that to all those dead Nicaraguans who got killed because they wouldn't support a corrupt government.

My gosh your does anything get past that incredibly thick cranium of yours?

The USA does not sponser terrorism. Stop being silly.

In other words: "I never saw that on FOX or CNN so it must be a lie!"

Really? What specific law was broken? How specifically is it illegal besides you not agreeing with it.

Okay where are the WMD's?
Where's the link between Saddam and Al-Qaeda?

You find me proof that either of those two reasons were valid for starting the mess that is Iraq and I'll believe what you say.

( Looks I don't have anything to worry about.)

[edit on 25/7/08 by The Godfather of Conspira]

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
And when is America going to pay it's long overdue debt for sponsoring some of most reprehensible people and governments in the world, who've killed combined millions?

Never, because your assumptions are ludicrous.

They could start with those hundreds of thousands of dead Japanese civilians and then work their way on from there.

Oh please, give me a break!
Japan started the war and the U.S. finished it. They have nobody to blame but themselves.
Besides, if the U.S. did not drop nukes, hundreds of thousands of additional people would have been killed.
So please take your faux outrage elsewhere.

"Hey rockets don't kill people!

That's right, now you got it.

If they should fly into a house blame Hezbollah,

Exactly, since they fired the rocket. You are catching on fast.

Utterly flawed logic.

That's why you need help.

SERIOUSLY, Amadingdong can't run around U.N. inspectors for seven months until a new U.S. president is in office, he has to play tough guy now at the worse possible time!!!

Anyone who things GW and Amadingdong aren't working together is blind in one eye, and can't see out of the other.

Iran has been at war for a thousand years, aggressively pushing an Islamic agenda. There is no way the West will stand by while they develop Nuclear weapons. I wish no one had them, but that isn't the way things are, and the Nuclear genie can't be put back into the bottle, so preventing other nations, especially an nation with as aggressive of tactics as Iran, from getting the A bomb should be a very high priority.

If you can't see the difference between the U.S. and Iran, you are blind. While the U.S. has its problems, our government is nowhere nearly as oppressive as the government of Iran.

I dont seem to understand why (What theory) is lacking so much insight and common sense.....This is going to go over well....
It's quite simple really, but it's impossible to "un-sear" a persons mind I guess.

Originally posted by snowen20
I dont seem to understand.....

There is your first problem.

It's quite simple really, but it's impossible to "un-sear" a persons mind I guess.

Instead of making sly insults, why don't you actually post something relevant to the topic at hand ok?
Look, I can play your game also. Let's see.... I guess you will never understand because you are a brainwashed sheep who needs others to tell them how to think instead of thinking for yourself.

Did that accomplish anything? No.
So stop with the veiled insults ok. Why don't you try to actually post something of value.