“Focus on the family” groups

Originally posted by anotherdad
My personal belief. You have freedon up to the point you are taking someone elses freedom away.

A big for you. That's actually my filosphy to

I found this thread was very interesting. My personal thought's in this matter:
I'm actually against people who says that they know what's best for their children and that they should teach their children what's right and what's wrong. This is because they will brainwash their children into believing what they believe and not giving the children the free will to decide for themselves what's right and what's wrong. Every humanbeing has the right to decide over themselves, their own body and their own mind. It's a shame that not more people are believing in the sam philosophy

reply to post by alkali


SO the 3rd Reich winning for quite a few years was fair simply because they had more people?

If FOTF and its supporters doesnt like a certain TV program, the logical thing to do is NOT WATCH it.

The tyrannical, censorship way to do things is to demand it be taken off the air so no one can watch it.

Which of these course of actions does FOTF and similar groups take?

reply to post by anotherdad


Hand to hand confrontation is force.

Force can have MANY definitions, one definition from dictionary.com:

power to influence, affect, or control; efficacious power: the force of circumstances; a force for law and order.

This isn't just about force, this entire thread is about hypocrisy.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by alkali


but FOTF doesn't work for everyone.

This would make perfect sense if they did not preach their message and supposed intentions to everyone.

reply to post by Pilot


I'm not going to even bother Pilot, but thanks for the opportunity.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


Stick to your guns Rapin!!! Focus on the family is directly responsible for preteen suicide in the gay community. They want to demonize young gay men and women and tell them that they are messed up in the head. Whether you believe that or not, you never tell a young depressed teenager, no matter if they are gay or not, they are evil and going to hell. Most of these kids were raised in a religious home and really believe in heaven and hell. James Dobson is not the saint they want you to think. James Dobson believes in disowning a child if they will not change their sexuality. Who in hell abandons a child or anyone especially in a time of need. All these modern day so called prophets seem to have forgotten to read the bible. I think the most important topic in the New Testament is to love each other like you would love yourself and do no harm. I don't believe in God but I believe there could have been a man that was named Jesus and that he could love you even though he didn't agree with you, and made a commitment to die before hurting others. Don't see Dobson doing anything that selfless.

reply to post by alienj


James Dobson

I wouldn't worry about Dobson, when actual research on ex-gay therapy and the mental issues of teen gays who are repressed from credible sources such as the APA are shoved in his face he whimpers and has no other argument left than the morals of his God. He has recieved threats from Christian groups and the show he supports have recieved threats of being pulled off the air because of them breaking the code of ethics. There is nothing ethical about this man, to mention his name is giving him too much attention.

No one attack me, this is simply my opinion and frankly something I will not bother debating.





[edit on 25-7-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage



www.forthebibletellsmeso.org...

I had heard lots of disparaging things on Dobson but this movie was brought to my attention by one of my many gay friends.
This movie clearly goes thru the bible and shows just how we should treat others and clearly shows how Dobson himself is a hypocrite according to the bible he holds up. He is clearly a snake oil salesman.

Originally posted by anotherdad
reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage

 

Dang it i need to go home., tell me a group you support?
In America you are allowed to disagree and share your opinion.
Boycott is not force. Hand to hand confrontation is force. show me that. show me FOTF disrespecting law enforcement, backing up traffic or kicking down doors.

They are useing there god given right to disagree. so again........

tell me a group you support.

Why do you want to know about a group I support or associate myself with? What, since you can’t dismiss FOTF’s hypocrisy your point is to prove the whole lot of them are hypocrites, therefore FOTF’s hypocrisy is no big deal? That’s sort of a weak argument (off topic), I think even you’d agree.

I never said they didn't have a right to disagree, why is it so hard for people to debate the actual issue and not stray from the topic? I said I dislike their hypocrisy and have shown their hypocrisy.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

I think that a lot of the confusion is coming from the word "force". Most equate force with physical actions/threats of physical and/or emotional harm. They are speaking out and writing in; not what most would consider force. Now, if they were marching on these media outlets with torches and pitchforks.....well, then that would be a different story.

They can protest and petition and threaten boycotts all day long. It is their right and their freedom and their choice to do so. Just as it is the choice of the media outlets as to whether they bow down to FOTF or any other organization, for that matter. It's all about choice. But, truth be told, most Americans are not focused on anything but mindless entertainment, anyway. With shows like "I Survived a Japanese Gameshow" getting good ratings....well, that shows you just how many American brain cells are focused on any real issues.

Onto the hypocrisy, I can see the point. You can't really be for the right of families to choose how their kids are educated but then turn around and try to dictate how the masses are "educated" by the media. There is a bit of hypocrisy in there. But, once again, it's about choice: FOTF's choice to pick and choose its causes and the media's/American citizens' choice to listen to them or tune them out.

If people don't want their kids educated in the admittedly broken American public school system but can't afford the tuition cost of a private school education, then there is the option of home-schooling. While this might not be a viable alternative for everyone, it is an option and more and more parents are getting together and forming ways to home-school groups of kids at the same time....regular little home-school classrooms. That is a choice available if you don't like the current education venues available.

I don't have a problem with FOTF or any other organization. They might annoy the hell out of me (and not FOTF specifically), but I understand they have the freedom, the right, and the choice to protest and petition any organization they want. Just like that organization has the choice to ignore them or bow down to them.

It's all about choice....listen to them, bow down to them, or tune them out. And, if none of those work for you, find like minded people and protest and petition any group that you disagree with. It's your freedom, your right, and your CHOICE.

reply to post by skeptic1


It is their right and their freedom and their choice to do so.

I completely agree, haven’t said differently once in this entire thread.

Onto the hypocrisy, I can see the point.

Thank you, and thanks for the rest of your post; raises quality points.

I simply wanted to address the hypocrisy and mostly see how FOTF supporters would react and if they wished to speak out against this argument, which many did well with out being childish or rude. I think it is important for people to be aware of FOTF’s hypocrisy and their involvement in media and education so those who feel the need to be apart of fighting such censorship and hypocrisy are at least turned on to what is going on, and if not then I possibly gained FOTF some new supporters, or people read this who just don’t care one way or the other.

As for the force thing of course I understand what you’re saying. Of course people always have choices. If someone comes into my business and claims they are going to have 50% of my customers boycott the place if I don't take a dish off the menu that sounds dirty I’ll do it just to keep my customers. But I dislike FOTF because of these choices; no they don’t do anything illegal, but say that actually happened to a business. It is just more intelligent and civil for someone who finds the item on the menu offensive to not eat at that restaurant rather than to threaten a portion of my business. They don’t have to eat at the place that has an item on the menu that bothers them; instead of going somewhere else they make me make a decision that I can hardly refuse.

I really don’t like such scenarios, which is why I really dislike focus on the family. Yes we always have choices; the point is they beat down our other choices so there is the only plausible one left.





[edit on 25-7-2008 by rapinbatsisaltherage]

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


well said and very true, I live in a religiously oppressive area and F onthe F is thought to preach the gospel. uuuggh they stink

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


I don't like groups like this, either. And, a large part of that dislike (and not just for FOTF) comes from the part of them that appears to be/is hypocritical. I am all for choice in any and all situations, so I don't like groups like that on principle. That, and they just annoy me....

But, I still contend that a business/media outlet has the choice as to whether or not they bow down and give into a group like this. The small business truthfully has less of a choice, but a media outlet really doesn't have to listen to them at all.

FOTF and other ultra-conservative media watchdog groups like the PTC may have a lot of members and supporters, and they can protest until they are blue in the face and petition until their hands cramp up, but in the end, how many of them do you think are really going to take the time and have the fortitude to actually boycott these channels, shows, and the companies that advertise on/for them? My guess, in the end, it would probably be around 10-15% of the original protesting group.....which, in all honesty, wouldn't make much of a dent (especially when they are spread out all over the country).

Of course, that brings up yet another hypocritical area of these groups....

FOTF...
OP, you must be from colorado.
i'm not sure a lot of people here "get" who they are in context.
you almost need to live in the area to fully understand their 'vibe'.

(shudders)

Many "focus on the family" parents are also home schoolers for reasons mentioned in OP. For many years, I appreciated much of the material Dobson had come out with. However, recently he seems to constantly address the upcoming election.. Obama scares him..he won't endorse McCain. Not that I am scared of Obama but I dislike both candidates. The point is Dobon needs to focus more on the family and less on politics.
For the record I don't know who would care what Dobson thinks politically.

Focus on the Family does a lot of great stuff for families. However, when Christian organizations attempt to force others to live by our beliefs then it only hurts the cause.

I really enjoy some telelvision shows. However, as I've watched my daughter grow I've realized it is my repsonsibility to raise her not the governments, not the tv programmers and definitely not our public schools. So, I'll sacrifice what I need to get her into a private school. I'll turn of the absolute filth that even some of the better shows are spewing into our house and if nobody likes that well tough becasue for the moment we still live in a mostly free country.

FotF should focus on the Family. Trying to make other people live by our rules is foolishness; they don't see the point and they don't want to (most don't anyway, I know quite a few purely secular folks who don't let their kids watch the crap on tv either).

Just my two cents worth...
I've heard the occasional FOTF Sunday morning radio show and had a neutral/positive opinion of it.
Until the morning that the commentator said,
Freedom of choice leads to bad choices
And went on to imply that they were in a position to dictate not only what choices are bad....but what choices were to be presented in the first place.
It seems to me that they endeavor to go beyond censorship into the realm of thought control.

It seems Dobson has an obsession with young boys.

For you supporters of FOTF, perhaps you can tell me why that is?

IN his writings, he almost seems like he views them as something to be worshipped.

Not to be insensitive, but...

MY GOD, PEOPLE! It's really not that complicated.

The original poster's intent was to illustrate the HYPOCRISY of groups like Focus on the Family. That's it. And the poster has done well, in my opinion. Several posters have pointed out the group only wants the ability to raise their children as they see fit. That's fine. We all want that.

What's NOT fine is the way they go about achieving that goal. They want to use the power of government to brow-beat every single person in this country with their ideas of morality. The clearest example is with TV censorship. It's real easy to just shut of the tube or switch the channel, right?

However, it's a lot more difficult to force TV stations, through the power of government censorship, to CHANGE the content to fit one's narrow vision of what's right and what's wrong. In choosing such an approach, it becomes evident that their goal is not as innocent as "we just want to raise our kids as we see fit." The fact that the group chooses the latter, more difficult, option speaks to their hypocrisy--and the notion that their ultimate goal is actually to compel everyone else to conform to their personal morals and belief systems.

And I'm sorry... that's just plain un-American. They have every right to voice an opinion. They have every right to hate public schools and television programs.

But they have no right to preemptively ELIMINATE certain beliefs from the marketplace of ideas. Such actions are completely antithetical to the foundations upon which this republic was built.

p.s. And YES, it's a republic--not a democracy. It's a big distinction. This isn't majority rule. Our founders fought tooth and nail against having this country become a country where 51% of the people can infringe on the rights of the other 49%.

It seems Dobson has an obsession with young boys.

That really is uncalled for. Do you know how hard it is to be a man in the park with your kids because of crap like that? Do you know how people look at me funny when I'm with my daughter alone at the store? Do you realize what kind of crap thought proceses like this are causing.

From everything I've read, he had a very loving relationship with his boys who loved to fight and play rough just like boys ought to. Why does he love boys, because he wants people to know that boys need love too and they need to be treated like boys not little girls. A respect for what boys can become is not worship. My dad never played with me at all, do you know what I would've given for him to teach me how to fight, to play ball, something?

Do you have kids? How would you feel if some lady called you a pervert for playing with your kids at the park? As if no kids have fathers now so any time an adult male is alone with a child he's some kind of deviant.

This dreck is starting to really tick me off.

are there perverst out there? yes there are. But that doesn't mean that every loving father is one. friggin' ridiculous.

Fixed some spelling and grammar errors to satisfy the spelling police.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by WarBow]