Stop Raising The Minimum Wage & Stop Whining

I agree that people who cannot afford children should not have them and should practice birth control instead of babymaking, however, an awful lot of hardworking people make minimum wage, I know in our area with all the plants shut down and nothing new coming in, having any job, min wage or not, is better than not having a job at all. And I have friends and family who are in much better positions than just making min wage and they are struggling just as much as the ones that do. I think you have confused two separate issues OP. Having children you cannot afford is the first issue, but working for min wage is IMO just more valiant, than somebody in Customer Service (what a joke job) making tons of bucks for doing nothing. The phone companies are full of those. So are the hospital billing departments, human resources, ect.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by space cadet]

reply to post by Rockpuck


"Assuming this person owns a car, the car payments and insurance (as the state forces people to buy corporate insurance........) would be about $150 (assuming it's a POS car and they don't owe much on it.. of course, car breaks down they are out of a job...)"



What is this person doing owning a car???
Is it his God Given Right to own a car? What about a TV, DVD, PC, air conditioner, Cable etc? Is he also entitle to these things even though he ruined is life so badly that he's on minimum wage????

Wake up, there are millions of people going hungry in the world, they would give their lives for something that doesn't even come close to the American minimum wage...

I find many things strange, many Mexicans and Puerto Rican's in my area, Long Island NY, manage to live, save money and better their situation, and that of their families, in a few years, on similar salaries (some even work part time for me and have done very well). Why can't "Americans", if you can call them that do the same???

Maybe because they are lazy and think they are entitled to own luxuries, like the car...Maybe because they just want to sit on their back sides in front of their unpaid for Wide TV, smoke pot and get drunk all day...

The Mexicans and Puerto Rican's I know have multiple jobs, work hard and, guess what???, with their efforts they manage to climb the social ladder!!!
Maybe your "American Martyrs" should try working, for a change, instead of being the parasitic lazy bums they are!!!

I wouldn't hire an American for any sort of low pay job, there is a much better, more honest, trustworthy and willing source of labor on the market...

reply to post by NorthWolfe CND


The population of Americans who are on their 'lazy bums' are probably comparable to the ones from your own country. There are many more hardworking Americans than there are lazy ones. And every country has it's share of drug users, and lazy bums. No one country has a patent on this, expecially not America. Your generalization is appalling.

[edit on 25-7-2008 by space cadet]

reply to post by Anonymous ATS

The government exists to take care of it's people when they need it and that government is made up of the able bodied. At least a GOOD government is. If a government doesn't take care of those within it's borders taht need the help, then why does it even exist? There would be no use for it what so ever.

Uh, the function of government isn't to "take care of people". Ever read the Constitution? Try it sometime, see if you can find anything about government having a duty to "take care of people".

The pharmacist gets paid a NICE salary, albight no lunch break during a 12 hour shift, for their education that took them many years to complete. My job pays me the bare minimum because I got on the job training as opposed to reading a book. So for doing things the hard way and actually having experience, I get one done over on me. Gee, thanks.

Is anyone forcing you to stay in your current field of employment? If not, instead of whining about how little you make, why not try a different career field?

Now she has to get SSI. She gets less than I do on minimum wage. So tell me why we can't raise these people's benefits also and stop spending $3B a day in Iraq.

Should we give SSI recipients $100,000 per month? If not, how much?

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
first off I will say I make a good working wage in skilled labor. I don't understand why when minimum wage goes up I see no increase in pay. When I first started in my position I made four times minimum wage, Now I make less than three times minimum wage. All I have seen from this [and I think most middle class Americans will agree] is an increase in prices for everything and less buying power for my dollar. In other words not only am I not getting any more money for my skills said money is buying less and less. Yes I am fortunate to make what I do, and am grateful, but all this does is make the rest rest of us poorer and poorer. Unfortunately there has to be an underclass. However I am fast approaching it myself through no fault of my own. I have an education and a good job, but I am finding it more and more difficult to get by.

respectfully
reluctantpawn

1) You see no increase in pay and your buying power is getting worst because fewer and fewer of us are paying for more and more parasites...

2) You shouldn't be grateful or consider yourself fortunate, it was the HARD WORK you did in gaining your skills that got you your position.

3) It is the fact that the American Left is trying to turn this Great Nation into a Socialist State that is reducing the importance of the skills you have worked so hard to obtain.

Fight against the Socialists, and there agenda, that are giving these bums a free ride and you will see your skills give you the just reward you deserve!

Originally posted by muzzleflash
So your telling the toilet scrubbers to stop complaining?

Haha what a joke. This thread is utterly pointless.

Why dont you rich folks stop complaining? You have everything yet you still have to open your mouth and talk bad on those who have nothing.

You deserve to clean toilets for a living buddy, then you will see the Truth of reality for once.

Many of us did that while working our way to an education. Meanwhile, the "cool kids", the ones that missed classes, where always partying, always stoned and so on, didn't bother...

Now they clean my toilets, not really, I wouldn't even let them do that, and serve me when I need some fast food, very rarely...

As far as I'm concerned they got what they payed for. I'm just sorry for their parents, in whose house many of them still live...They would do everybody a favor if they just checked out!!!

You reap what you sow...

Originally posted by Solarskye
OK, today the minimum wage was raised 12 percent or 70 cents to now $6.55 an hour and people are still whining. I'm hearing stories of people who earn minimum wage and raising six kids and I'm frustrated. Minimum wage was not meant for people wanting to raise a family and people need to think before popping out six kids. Instead of being good in bed they need to get an education so they can get better wages. Everyone is whining to the government to do more and I'm losing hope for America and the irresponsible politicians and citizens.

"I'm slowly getting by," says Stepney, who contributes $350 to her sister's monthly rent. The rest of her paycheck goes to buying groceries, at $25 to $100 a week.

Source

What is her sister doing

Can she not better herself to get a job and help out her sister who's paying her rent?

That's right. The minimum wage should be more three times what it is today. At that level, you would make almost $40,000 a year. Not an outstanding amount given all the other costs and the likelihood that you would not be in a job with health care and a pension (that's another issue). But, beginning to be in the realm of respectable.

Source

Here's Johnathon Tasini talking about how it should be increased three times fold so that minimum wage workers bring home 40,000 a year. Now what about the people who make over a little more than minimum wage? Do they get a break? NO! They will end up paying for the higher cost of food and other commodities that go up because of the increase. This is hurting everyone who has gotten off their butts and did something in their life to make better wages. I don't know what to say about America and the dependency it has on it's government.

I would really like an education on what this means in America and what is in store down the line. I know that next year it will go up to $ 7.25 an hour and I'm thinking to myself? What about the ones who have done good and gotten an education or training to get their job only to see others who don't deserve it get a raise. It's unfair to the middle class folks who work their butts off to make it too! Now that gas and food prices are rising the poor get a raise while us getting by become poor.

Give me some opinions members, I'm trying to stay calm about this and I know that not everyone is in the same situation when it comes to minimum wage, but to try to raise a family on it is absurd and safe sex should be practiced until they can afford a family.

Wage and Hour Division

A sad truth about minimum wage is that it hurts the poor and benefits, buisness. How so? first off it increases the pool of people willing to work those jobs affected by it, it will attract the housewife and more educated workers to those jobs because they will consider them as options to pickup extra money. Making it so that employers now have a larger pool of candidates to choose from who do you think they will choose?

Does this mean we should be heartless in the situation not in the least the other truth about minimum wage is that companys cannot be trusted to not exploit the worker if one does not exist. so now you find yourself in a position of balancing the need to protect the worker form both sides of the issue. The job market in this country is going down the drain faster everyday. The thing that irks me more than anything are the people who are all why dont they get an education to better yourself and not be in that situation? The truth is it isnt that simple what happens to the guy who worked at a company for 28 years two years from retiring only to have it bought out and shut down by someone else who gets to keep your pension with absolutly no thought to how you are supposed to survive, guess he just made poor decisions and didnt work hard enough huh? It isnt like the guy can go out and get another job and keep up with the kids that can produce more now can he?

If the government really wanted to improve things in this country and help its people it would tariff the imported goods like it was going out of style you simply make it less profitable operate outside of this country than it is to operate here. Why should we be concerning ourselves with how well the third world countries are doing? Why should we allow them to flood our markets with low prices, we shouldnt be.

I saw an article the other day raising the question of whether America can regain its prominence in the world marketplace, the truth is not until our government takes a stand against the things that are bad for the middle class and takes steps to strengthen it. Raising the minimum wage, while a good sentiment is little more than just that a good sntiment.

Originally posted by Oldtimer2
I love thios person's analogy,if a person has 6 kids and making minimum wage,how on earth is this person going to get the time,or the money to further their education? some are stuck in a situation would you rather they stop working altogether and collect welfare,I was an employer I was proud to pay a good wage,see your employees happy,drive reliable vehicles and able to care for their families,I think one should walk in another man's shoes before he makes thoughtless remarks IMO

It's called "planing your life", or at least your future economic independence:
-Getting an education
-Buying your first car when you can afford it
-Buying a house when you can pay for it
-Building a family when you know you can provide for them

Or, maybe we can follow your advice, start procreating like rabbits at puberty, have a bunch a kids by the time we reach 18 and just dump our mess on society, or, most often on our parents...

Sorry if I got you wrong, but expenses don't just fall on you from the sky...
You brake it, you pay for it...

Originally posted by coop039

Pisses me off.

As it should. All the stuff you talk about is originating a decadent society where, pretty soon, there will be nobody left to work hard, get educated and lead a reasonable life that corresponds to their income. Soon it will be cheaper just to live off welfare and not bother to work, or get educated, at all!!!

Originally posted by Maxmars
In particular I was referring to the 'obscenely' rich. But your point is well-taken. The people some may consider rich - the one's who had a plan and went for it, or made something, developed or invented a thing, these people are RARELY, if ever, obscenely rich.

There are however, those who ARE. And you know what - THEY DID STEAL IT - or their parents or grand parent or great grand parent did. And they will do all sorts of things to ensure that they ALWAYS have that wealth. Most of them involve anything but 'earning' it.

But hey, what do I know... I am poor. Some might say middle class - but that is an illusion. The middle class was killed some time ago, there are those in debt, and there are those not, if you are in debt, you are poor. Suck it up. If your not, good luck and take care, or you may soon be.

Let me see, Bill Gates, Paul Allen, the founders of Apple Computers. What did they start out with, and from whom did they steal their millions?

I guess that, according to you, when I die I can't leave my money and properties to my kids, I'll probably just set up a fund so that every American can own a car and have a dozen kids before he, or she, can read and write. wouldn't want my kids being labeled by you as thieving useless bast*rds

Originally posted by blackthorne
reply to post by SRTkid86

 

education is not always the answer. remember when das newt wanted to make every one an entrepeneur? that would not work out either. no why? there is always some one who must sweep up, fix something, clean, cook etc...
these people need to live, don't they?
and do not forget that one can have a good job, "oops, sorry, we had to downsize and your job is moving to india as well." and as some before said, then the ceo gets a massive pay out.

When I talk of education I don't refer only to a scholar I refer to abilities, skills and something that can permit you to rise, both as a person and as an economically prosperous individual. It dos not take many years to become a plumber or a mechanic or a carpenter etc, yet these people, due to hard work and good reasoning have great jobs, that they like, and get payed almost, in some cases, what they want...

Yes there will always be poor people but they serve a purpose in society, to make you see what happens when you don't fight for your security and for your future. Didn't your parents, when you did something wrong, point at those very people and asked you if you wanted to become a bum, like them?

Poor people serve as an example of what not to do with your life, besides if everybody had a "good life" what would be the incentive to do anything, to learn anything or to plan for anything?
Society would just rot, with a bunch of useless fools that stood around all day looking at each other (just like the good old USSR).

Originally posted by onlyhurtsu
Yeah......obviously just excuses to not help those in need , from the well off spolied people.

I mean seriously...Buying a painting for 65 million dollars vs using that to provide for thousands of suffering people. If u dont understand the stupidity of that and insanity u r retarded. They will feel guilty when they awaken to who they are and realize they wasted that money (energy) on dead material vs highly evolved beings that have the potential of a buddha.

1) Excuses? The only ones I see making excuses are the poor.
"I got into drugs because I had a lousy family..."
"I'm a drunk because my cat dyed when I was five.."

I make no excuses and those in need of help can get it if they really need it. Problem is they don't, it's just another excuse..."oh man I'm trying, I swear I am, just came out of the XX rehab can you spear a buck?"

2) 65 million painting - Where I come from it's called investing. That is the way you secure your future, if you are right then it will be worth 100 mill in a couple of years, if you are not you loose 10 or 20 or 30 million...
As for giving money away to useless oxygen wasters, I'll leave that to you...

3) Isn't Buddha that fat slob of a prince? Guess he didn't feed that many of his subjects since he left them to live on some of the most famine/poverty struck countries in the world...a lot of good he did, besides eating enough to feed a couple of small countries...

4)No such thing as too much money!!!

Originally posted by NorthWolfe CND

Originally posted by blackthorne
reply to post by SRTkid86

 

Yes there will always be poor people but they serve a purpose in society, to make you see what happens when you don't fight for your security and for your future. Didn't your parents, when you did something wrong, point at those very people and asked you if you wanted to become a bum, like them?

Poor people serve as an example of what not to do with your life, besides if everybody had a "good life" what would be the incentive to do anything, to learn anything or to plan for anything?
Society would just rot, with a bunch of useless fools that stood around all day looking at each other (just like the good old USSR).

Honestly I love serving as an example of what not to do with one's life...it was my goal you know...I woke up every morning and thought I'm going to be poor poor poor cause I want to SERVE as an example to my fellow man....

Sorry I couldn't resist

- Seriously, I hear what your saying...but I'm here to tell you sh!!t happens to hard working people in the real world no matter how well you plan for it..so keep that in mind that you are speaking of actual breathing human beings not unlike yourself...

Originally posted by beforetime

Btw.. i buy 2 24 pack's of the shrimp ramen noodle's every month..
money is tight.


God I hate rich people.

[edit on 24-7-2008 by beforetime]

You see, there is the difference, "you hate the rich". You could be standing right in front of one and he wouldn't even acknowledge your presence...

You are wasting your hate, and that makes me feel good and you feel so baaaaaaad.....

Originally posted by mattguy404
reply to post by beforetime

 

So what should young people do, work dead end jobs for 20 years and not get anywhere, or go to college for 3 or 4 years and be ahead

I know education in the states is expensive, so I think anyone making the effort there deserves what they get.

Education is the key, it doesn't matter how old your are, you must keep learning.

Just look at how economies that had free college & university education during the 70s, 80s & 90s are exploding now, India, China and remember this was under rubbishy communist/socialist education systems, where their choices for striking out on their own afterwards are very limited.

When higher education is accessable based on merit alone and cheap to free - unlike the present student loans debacle - once they graduate they pay their debt by contributing to the growth of the economy, to innovation in every area, humanitarian and scientific.

If they have to pay some huge loan back of course they are going to be more pragmatic in their choices, less inclined to "contribute" in the above sense.

The U.S. would be LIGHT YEARS ahead of where it is now - wallowing in a debt based inflation spiral - if higher education was a right and not a privalege of the rich.





[edit on 25-7-2008 by undermind]

reply to post by Solarskye


Firstly, the federal government should have no right to dictate the minimum wage to states. Individual states can figure it out for them selves just fine, especially because they know their situation better than the feds do.

Second, the minimum wage is a very poor method of re-distributing wealth. What jobs would I apply to and expect to get minimum wage? Grocery, retail, farm, and factory positions. And who consumes these products? Pretty much everyone, but as a percentage obviously food is a higher percent of poor people's budget. So when minimum wage goes up, via the laws of economics, the total price of food, factory, and retail products is going to increase by the same as the total of the minimum wage increases. So yes, the poor guy gets more money, but a good deal of that is going to be sucked away by inflation. And of course, there will be some jobs that will be eliminated completely because the position simply won't be worth the cost anymore.

Wouldn't a far superior alternative be to be to raise the tax on rich people only, then have the poor guy submit their paycheck and have it supplimented to the current minimum wage level using that money? In this way, small businesses don't suffer, jobs aren't shipped pointlessly overseas, and poor people don't have to pay more for food because of a minimum wage on food jobs. So, far better on three accounts.

*edited for ease of reading & delete part that probably won't be interpreted correctly*

[edit on 25-7-2008 by truthquest]

For those complaining of dead end jobs and not having job skills. Can you push a mower? Can you use a paint brush. Can you talk on the phone? There are worlds of small businesses out there that can be done with little or no skills. If you have the incentive to work it is available. It may be hard for a while but it can be done. Work for yourself and get it done. It may not work the first time so try something else. That is w2hat made this country great. Now it it starting to look more and more like Rome all the time.

respectfully
reluctantpawn

The system is engineered to be this way. Beginning with education. To create a society of dumbed down surfs. NOTHING has changed in 2000 years. We just have fancy technology and toys to distract the people with, but NOTHING has changed. It is an illusion instituted at the very top of the ruling class. The middle class is being wiped out by an economy that is going to crash by 2010. We are In The year 2008 and min. wage is $6.55. Something is very wrong with that picture. Those who print the money control the laws. Do the research. This is all going very much according to plan.

What I love is rich people bitching about people who work these minimum wage jobs.

"Why don't they go to college and get a better job?"

First, not everyone has a mommy and daddy to pay for their college. Some of us have to work for a living...

Second, ok, lets say NO ONE works a minimum wage job. Oops, the country is destroyed. Why? No stock boys, no waitresses, no fast food workers, no janitors, no fruit pickers, no nothing!

I want to see how long you people bitching at minimum wage workers last when you can't go to a store and buy food. I want to see how long you last without us "Lowly peasants" doing the hard work.

I'd love to see all these republicans bitching about the poor pump their own gas. Hell John McBush already admitted he doesn't do it and has no idea the price of gas.

So, rich people bitching at minimum wage people, I want to see you do half the stuff they do. Try getting by with a 215 car payment, 127.50 a month insurance, 150 rent(4 people paying) 100 on food, 100 on gas to get to work... and that's if you do the bare minimum of food. Mmmm, ramen noodles 24/730/365 and the cheap brand of soda since juice or coffee or anything else costs too much.