Ask a Mason

originally posted by: JoshNorton

originally posted by: megmaltese
It may also happen that some masons are not really written down into the lodges officially.

Arguement from Ignorance

This happened in the past in Italy,

Association Fallacy

By the way, if you REALLY want to know who are the masons on key positions in the world, you can easily check for yourself, it's a much more easy task for you mason than for me.

Shifting the Burden of Proof

But of course now I won't be expecting any answer, and I really wouldn't trust any anyway, so, save your time.

Begging the Question

To all the other readers: you are naive if you think a mason would reveal what is REALLY going on inside the brotherhood.

Ad Hominem

etc...

LOGGIA P2
Ignorance is all yours, I'm pretty sure you never heard of this.

This proves ALL of my text: that there are deviated masons branches, and that it's just naive (and stupid, when you have PROOF of it) to think the opposite.

And with this I really closed here, bye.



P.s.: just because this may seem of some importance as well, Garibaldi was a mason himself.
Who is Garibaldi? The one who "unified" Italy.
it.wikipedia.org...

And about females that can't become masons, seems there's plenty of ignorance in there as well.
en.wikipedia.org...

Sorry for disturbing, keep living in your fabulous world!

a reply to: megmaltese
I can say for certain that Josh does know about P2. It's a favorite of anti-Masons who don't have a clue of its history, the history of the Freemasonry in Italy, and the history of Freemasonry in general.

P2 was a rogue, clandestine Lodge who lost its charter in the 70s and as such was not a "Masonic branch," deviated or otherwise. Using such terminology demonstrates you don't possess the knowledge of how Freemasonry works and operates. I'm guessing all of your knowledge comes from some site you read and just take what they say at face value.

We're not opposing your posts because we think anything, it's because we know and have first hand knowledge in the operations of Lodges.

I've been to one of the Lodges in Florence named after Garibaldi...a great group of men.

And no, women cannot join Freemasonry. Those bodies who call themselves "Masonic" but allow women in are not following the traditional or ancient landmarks of Freemasonry. Masonic terms are not copyrighted so anyone can and does use them.

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: megmaltese
I can say for certain that Josh does know about P2. It's a favorite of anti-Masons who don't have a clue of its history, the history of the Freemasonry in Italy, and the history of Freemasonry in general.

P2 was a rogue, clandestine Lodge who lost its charter in the 70s and as such was not a "Masonic branch," deviated or otherwise. Using such terminology demonstrates you don't possess the knowledge of how Freemasonry works and operates. I'm guessing all of your knowledge comes from some site you read and just take what they say at face value.

We're not opposing your posts because we think anything, it's because we know and have first hand knowledge in the operations of Lodges.

I've been to one of the Lodges in Florence named after Garibaldi...a great group of men.

And no, women cannot join Freemasonry. Those bodies who call themselves "Masonic" but allow women in are not following the traditional or ancient landmarks of Freemasonry. Masonic terms are not copyrighted so anyone can and does use them.

I really have no wish to answer all of this... looks too dull to me to waste time over it.
But don't mistake: I could, I have arguments. But I really have no wish.



Or... I do it. Very shortly. But last time.

So P2 was there. They were caught. And you think there's NOTHING ELSE GOING ON? Just laughable, again.

It's funny that all you say about Garibaldi being a mason is that his mason house is composed by good guys.
You can't catch the political implications, or better you don't want to catch them, you just fly over the political implications.
Typical strategy in a discussion, when there's no valid argument to counter, then ignore the assertion.

About women: you think that your "traditional blablabla" count that much?
Do you think that if I set up a mason house here, follow all the rites and take women in, and gain some power, and befriend some masons from other more traditional mason houses, they will send me to hell?
Would YOU send a woman to hell when she tells you that she's a mason and would make some import/export businesses with you?
Come on, you are just ridiculing yourself.

Or, as I wrote earlier, you are just here for a mission: to defend masons at all costs. To deny any and every negative attribution anybody can raise against masons.
I understand it. It's ok. But going against logic, sociology, psychology is ridiculing themselves.

And this is really my last answer to you or in this thread, and probably in this whole section of the website.
Got other stuff to do, sorry.

originally posted by: megmaltese


About women: you think that your "traditional blablabla" count that much?
Do you think that if I set up a mason house here, follow all the rites and take women in, and gain some power, and befriend some masons from other more traditional mason houses, they will send me to hell?
Would YOU send a woman to hell when she tells you that she's a mason and would make some import/export businesses with you?
Come on, you are just ridiculing yourself.

Well, it is a "FRATERNITY". But don't let that hold you back sparky.

And no, if you started your own masonic lodge group and pretended to be a mason, nobody would kill you. Nobody would even care. But we also wouldn't consider you a mason. No secret handshake for you.

And this is really my last answer to you or in this thread, and probably in this whole section of the website.
Got other stuff to do, sorry.

Sad to see you go. You seemed so knowledgeable on the subject.

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: megmaltese
I can say for certain that Josh does know about P2. It's a favorite of anti-Masons who don't have a clue of its history, the history of the Freemasonry in Italy, and the history of Freemasonry in general.

P2 was a rogue, clandestine Lodge who lost its charter in the 70s and as such was not a "Masonic branch," deviated or otherwise. Using such terminology demonstrates you don't possess the knowledge of how Freemasonry works and operates. I'm guessing all of your knowledge comes from some site you read and just take what they say at face value.

We're not opposing your posts because we think anything, it's because we know and have first hand knowledge in the operations of Lodges.

I've been to one of the Lodges in Florence named after Garibaldi...a great group of men.

And no, women cannot join Freemasonry. Those bodies who call themselves "Masonic" but allow women in are not following the traditional or ancient landmarks of Freemasonry. Masonic terms are not copyrighted so anyone can and does use them.

French Grand Orient Freemasonry allows women and French Grand Orient Freemasonry is fairly old... I would not call them false Masons, but they are not in regularity with Grand Lodge Anglo-American Freemasonry.

a reply to: megmaltese
Calling my post dull doesn't invalidate it. That's juts your opinion.

Saying you have arguments and not showing them is like you saying you have a winning hand in Poker and not showing it, but expecting us to pay up. That cake don't bake.

P2 was a bad group of men, but they were not under the auspices of any Masonic organization after they lost their charter. What part of that don't you get?

All of these "implication" are just your assumptions.

About women: you think that your "traditional blablabla" count that much?

Actually yes, they do count and matter. It's one of the things that connects all of the Grand Lodges together around the world, is the adherence to the landmarks.

Do you think that if I set up a mason house here, follow all the rites and take women in, and gain some power, and befriend some masons from other more traditional mason houses, they will send me to hell?
Would YOU send a woman to hell when she tells you that she's a mason and would make some import/export businesses with you?

This is nonsense.

If a woman said she was a Mason, she could call herself that all day long, but she wouldn't be able to attend Lodge with me nor I at her Lodge, nor would she be able to join any group recognized by actual Freemasonry.

Woman or not, I wouldn't jump into a business deal simply because they were a Mason. I'm guessing you've never ran your own business.

Come on, you are just ridiculing yourself.

No, that would be you.

Or, as I wrote earlier, you are just here for a mission: to defend masons at all costs.

No, I'm here to dispel some of the lies and fairy tales spoken by those who have no idea what they are talking about.

To deny any and every negative attribution anybody can raise against masons.

Just the false ones.

a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
Being around for a long time doesn't validate it. The Grand Orient makes a mockery of everything that Freemasonry stands for.

Do lodges have books you can read and research on about being a mason? I've done research online but I would rather read a book written by one. I have so many questions. Only time will tell I suppose.

a reply to: ExternalForces
I'd check out "Freemasons for Dummies" by Chris Hodapp.

a reply to: ExternalForces

A book that is given to new Scottish Rite masons in the southern jurisdiction is called "A Bridge to Light".

There is the old one given to the same, "Morals and Dogma", but it's a bit hard to read.

If you want to know what we do, Ksig's option is a very good one.

Thank you. I definitely appreciate the help and knowledge.

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
Being around for a long time doesn't validate it. The Grand Orient makes a mockery of everything that Freemasonry stands for.

I am not sure how the Grand Orient does that, I am a regular Grand Lodge Mason but I see no reason to beat up on the Grand Orient.

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
Being around for a long time doesn't validate it. The Grand Orient makes a mockery of everything that Freemasonry stands for.

I am assuming your primary issue would be their acceptance of atheists?

Pike himself was not opposed to admitting atheists. He never said not to admit atheists, he merely said that no man would be able to remain an atheist if he learned the lessons of Freemasonry and truly understood them, he did not say "do not admit atheists, they are not worthy."

I am a deist in my sense of my understanding of the Creator and I identify a great deal with the philosophical outlook of Luciferian occultism, which I have explained elsewhere as a philosophy of self-improvement, an emphasis on education, learning, betterment, and pursuit of knowledge, enlightenment, and light. That said, I have no issue with atheists, or people of any system of belief or disbelief or skepticism, so long as they are of good character and conduct themselves with integrity.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: ExternalForces

A book that is given to new Scottish Rite masons in the southern jurisdiction is called "A Bridge to Light".

There is the old one given to the same, "Morals and Dogma", but it's a bit hard to read.

If you want to know what we do, Ksig's option is a very good one.

Morals and Dogma is worth the read, but it is lengthy. It would actually be useful if they broke Morals and Dogma up into separate booklets/sections for each degree and gave them to the candidate as he progresses from degree to degree, 1st, 2nd, 3rd... Then when getting into the Scottish Rite give him X booklets per reunion based on the degrees being presented at that reunion.

a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
Read up on its history and you'll see the damage it has caused to regular Masonry.

a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
No offense to Pike, but I don't base my opinion on his writings. It's not just about atheism either, but also how they act as a political lobbyist in France.

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
Read up on its history and you'll see the damage it has caused to regular Masonry.

a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
No offense to Pike, but I don't base my opinion on his writings. It's not just about atheism either, but also how they act as a political lobbyist in France.

Have you read Scarlet and the Beast - A History of the War between English and French Freemasonry"

a reply to: LoneWanderer1307

Sounds like I have a lot of reading to catch up on.

a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
I haven't read the book, but I'm familiar with the history.

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
Read up on its history and you'll see the damage it has caused to regular Masonry.

a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
No offense to Pike, but I don't base my opinion on his writings. It's not just about atheism either, but also how they act as a political lobbyist in France.

What is wrong with political lobbying?

I was talking with a lodge brother the other day, we were going over a list of famous Freemasons, and on the list he mentioned Simon Bolivar, George Washington, Marquis de Lafayette, etc... I pointed out that Bolivar was the revolutionary who ended Spanish rule in South America, of course Washington was a revolutionary who ended British rule in the American colonies, and Lafayette was a Frenchman who was instrumental in helping the Americans and was a moderate in a French revolution...

The point is that of course Freemasons are instructed to be lawful members of their society, but most of the revolutions in the Western Hemisphere in the 1700s and early 1800s were Masonic revolutions and a number of major revolutions in the 1800s in Europe were Masonic as well.



vimeo.com...

Freemasonry and the Fabric of America (Unabridged)
from Scottish Rite NMJ USA

Freemasonry and the Fabric of America was recorded February 3, 2003 at the Humphrey Scottish Rite Masonic Center in Milwaukee, WI, by Bro. Lee Sherman Dreyfus.

a reply to: LoneWanderer1307
Freemasonry is not supposed to be a lobbyist organization.

There's a difference between fighting for freedom and being an active political force; Washington spoke against factions in our political system.