Ask a Mason

originally posted by: emsed1
Hi guys,

I know a lot of you have questions about Freemasonry and it seems like there are quite a few masons here that can answer your questions.

I'd like to invite those who are interested to submit questions and I will be happy to try and answer them. There are a lot of brothers here that can correct me.

It would be helpful if you can limit your questions (in this thread anyway) to Blue Lodge Masonry, in other words the first three degrees. The higher degrees are done in York Rite, Scottish Rite and Shriners and I don't know anything about them.

We obviously won't be able to give you any of the 'secret' passwords (dramatic music here) but I am happy to tell you whatever I can.

Hopefully it can be helpful and I welcome anti-masons to present opposing viewpoints but please keep it civil. (I swear I will pull this thread over...)

And now for the basics...

Requirements for Joining Masonry (US)

Being a man, freeborn, of good repute and well-recommended;

A belief in a Supreme Being;

Ability to support one's self and family;

Of lawful age; and

Come to Freemasonry of their "own free will and accord".

Supreme Being Belief Requirement

Everything that is taught in Freemasonry relates to a singular, benevolent God. For an atheist or believer of many gods the lessons of masonry would not make sense because they assume you believe in one God.

You don't have to tell anyone 'what' God you believe in, and no one will ever ask you. In most US lodges we use the Holy Bible for initiation, but a Koran or other book can be used if preferred by the candidate.

Religion and Politics

It is absolutely forbidden to discuss religion or politics in the lodge. A long time ago masons realized these were the two major topics that disrupt and divide people.

We do have opening and closing prayers in lodge that are addressed to the "Supreme Architect of the Universe", but that's about as close as it gets to religion.

Personal Gain

Anyone who joins masonry expecting personal gain or benefit will be disappointed. It's all about giving and not expecting anything in return.

So, what's the point?

Masonry exists to teach men about their duty to God, their neighbor and themselves. As you advance through the degrees you will learn about brotherly love, truth and relief.

Relief?

If a brother is in trouble (IE losing a job, etc.) masons are expected to help him to the best of their ability, except that it would place them or their family in harm's way. Examples include money, clothes, groceries, transportation, etc.

If you are a mason and break the law you are on your own. Freemasonry promotes lawfulness, citizenship and patriotism. Wrongdoing is not tolerated.

What happens at meetings?

There are two kinds of meetings. We have business meetings a couple times per month that are mundane and boring. The other meetings are 'degree ceremonies'. They are moving and beautiful, and a lot of fun!

Anyway, that's a start. Fire away!

Hello, do you know about the free masons lodge in Paramount? On Lakewood blvd, and in between Rosecrans and Somerset? Whats the blue lodge? And also how do I check when someone replies to one of my questions on this site? Thanks in advanced.

for some reason I posted a thread about hidden in plain sight 9/11 references and it got censored after only 25 minutes and I was not perpetrating a hoax or doing anything that violates the rules...I guess it hit the core of the conspiracy movement and thus was immediately censored...not classy by a site that claims to be a repository of secrets

originally posted by: ALightinDarkness


Apparently, you are not aware of our history. Else you would know the Hiram tale is a morality play. It has a specific function and purpose as a literary device.

[edit on 14-7-2008 by ALightinDarkness]

The Hiram play aside from being a lesson in morality and the importance of patience and honoring your obligations to be worthy of that which you hope to receive, is also a representation of a spiritual resurrection into a new system of belief, a new philosophy. The idea that the candidate goes from being on the dead level to raised on the living perpendicular.

Going from being in the darkness to being given the full light of [Blue Lodge] Masonry, represents a spiritual awakening or birth, or at least a renewal or rebirth.

I would generally advise evangelical Christians and serious/fundamentalist Catholics not to join Freemasonry, because Freemasonry is eclectic, it embraces many traditions from many faiths, and it is universalist, and it requires a candidate to openly admit he is in darkness and desires light. Christians believe they are already in the light and they have a monopoly on light. Many Christians can join Freemasonry and be productive Freemasons, but clearly many cannot since we have hundreds of conspiracy websites, blogs, books, written by mostly evangelical fundamentalist holier than thou Christians who regard anything other than their particular church as Satanic or "devil worship."

A fundamentalist Catholic who regards Lutheranism as "heretical devil worship" because Luther challenged and rejected the pope, has no hope of sitting in a Lodge as a brother and fellow with a Muslim, a Baptist, a Jew, a Hindu, or even a Greek Orthodox.

If you cannot check your religious affiliations and particulars outside the door of the Lodge and enter the Lodge to meet upon the level and part upon the square, then Freemasonry is probably not for you and you are not right for Freemasonry.


Fundamentalist Christians who say "Christians cannot be Masons" well it depends what they mean by Christian, if they mean a basic loving happy Christian who is accepting that those around him have different perspectives on Christianity, they may belong to a different denomination, or even a completely different religion, then no, that statement is wrong, because a basic loving happy Christian can be a Mason... If they mean a fire and brimstone, holier than thou, "all other faiths are wrong and go to hell" type Christian, then they are probably right, that sort of "Christian" would struggle to get anything out of Masonry, to give anything to Masonry, and would find it very difficult to be a productive Mason and to understand the moral lessons and philosophy of Freemasonry.

a reply to: Illumina233

You probably got your thread taken down since you have only posted 11 times and you are supposed to reach a certain number (I think 22 posts) before you can start your own thread. If I'm not mistaken your last comment could be considered an off topic comment since it doesn't really have anything to do with the original topic. You should also voice your issues to a moderator.

a reply to: EA006
Did the creators of Assassins Creed make "Abstergo" an anagram of his name or is it coincidence?

As for Kenway and Black Flag, you do realize it's a fantasy game. Some of the events and figures may have been real, but not every little thing is factual.

a reply to: EA006
No. There are around 175 Grand Lodges worldwide, all of them are sovereign and independent of each other. Each of the appendant, concordant, or side bodies of Freemasonry have their own hierarchy and, for the most part, there is no single authority over each of them, but they all require permission from a Grand Lodge to operate within that Grand Lodge's jurisdiction.

a reply to: EA006
Yes.

www.travelingtemplar.com...

One correction on my link is that Ford was also in Scottish Rite. I need to fix that image.

I have some questions for masons out there
I watched a variety of videos on the craft and it seems like a common complaint is that masonry is too pagan
I am a firm progressive Christian but not a fundamentalist by any means and I respect the teaching of a universalist moral code. Would I encounter a lot of pagan idolatry if I joined the order?
I am really tempted to join and I am extremely well-qualified...I just have a few reservations about elevating Bale and Osiris to a level tantamount to Jesus Christ.
I understand the organization caters to people of all major faiths so that is why Jesus is often omitted in the prayers to the Supreme Architect of the Universe...That does not bother me that much...I just wonder if I am forced to consecrate pagan Gods as part of the ceremonies? Or is it more purely symbolic?
Also I heard from a documentary video that high-level masons know all about Area 51 and the real perpetrators behind the JFK assassination. How high do you have to climb to reach this level of esoteric insight?
Another question I have is relating to my age. I am 26 years old but wise beyond my years...what percentage of masons would you estimate are between 25-35? I understand the if you really want the esoteric aspect it would be wise to join the Washington D.C. temple or the Philadelphia temple...to what degree would you estimate a temple located in Denver would be informed of the things that the more powerful temples are endowed with?

thanks for your time!

originally posted by: Illumina233
I have some questions for masons out there
I watched a variety of videos on the craft and it seems like a common complaint is that masonry is too pagan
I am a firm progressive Christian but not a fundamentalist by any means and I respect the teaching of a universalist moral code. Would I encounter a lot of pagan idolatry if I joined the order?
I am really tempted to join and I am extremely well-qualified...I just have a few reservations about elevating Bale and Osiris to a level tantamount to Jesus Christ.
I understand the organization caters to people of all major faiths so that is why Jesus is often omitted in the prayers to the Supreme Architect of the Universe...That does not bother me that much...I just wonder if I am forced to consecrate pagan Gods as part of the ceremonies? Or is it more purely symbolic?
Also I heard from a documentary video that high-level masons know all about Area 51 and the real perpetrators behind the JFK assassination. How high do you have to climb to reach this level of esoteric insight?
Another question I have is relating to my age. I am 26 years old but wise beyond my years...what percentage of masons would you estimate are between 25-35? I understand the if you really want the esoteric aspect it would be wise to join the Washington D.C. temple or the Philadelphia temple...to what degree would you estimate a temple located in Denver would be informed of the things that the more powerful temples are endowed with?

thanks for your time!

I have never heard anybody call on the name of any pagan deity, or calling on God by any name except Grand Architect or Supreme Architect.

a reply to: Illumina233
No, you won't run into "pagan idolatry" or forced to "consecrate pagan gods".

You can find esoteric insight in the Blue Lodge.

I'm not sure of the statistic, but I joined at age 21, I'm 30 now.

Having been to DC and Philly, you can find esoteric knowledge anywhere, but they do have some awesome libraries. Obviously Freemasonry on the East Coast is older than the rest of the nation so they are more reputable, but that doesn't make them more powerful. Denver has some great Lodges.

Before posing you my question I need to make some preamble.
Questions are at the end.

I always read that masons have no secrets, apart those little things and rituals.
This should be proof that there is no secret mason government spanning all over the western countries.

I oppose this sort of reasoning, and instead I am pretty sure that there is a masonic government that dominates all western countries and is fighting to extend all over the world. That's why Russia and China are the worst enemies of the west.

Why I think this? Because there's a huge number of masons occupying top key positions in governments, companies, banks.
There are so many in fact, that statistically it's IMPOSSIBLE there are so many key positions occupied by masons if there wasn't an organization behind.
Either half of the world is mason, then, or they are so clever that they reach those positions more often than the rest of the world.

Unluckily, the most easy and possible explanation is another one: masons help each other.
That's no secret either, that masons help each other, they develop friendship bounds in the organization, and at the same time, BUSINESS bonds.

Now, it's very possible that there's no paper for any plan whatsoever in any of the masons offices around the world, but this doesn't mean there's no organization behind.
In fact, some masons popped out of the organization revealing that there IS actually a secret part of it, or to better say it, some masons ACT SECRETLY apart from most other masons, like a parallel organization.
Let's call the "masons in masons" or NWO if you prefer. Or just more close friends.
The fact is, this is not only possible, but very, very likely happening.

Wouldn't even be a surprise that this secret organization inside the masons brotherhood only involves top level freemasons.
In fact, that's also statistically the most possible scenario: naive masons are left in the lower ranks, helping each other with the daily business, it's the official masonry.
Skilled, ruthless businessmen that only live for power, in the end get up to become part of this secret society inside the mason organization, and THAT type of people will never reveal what's going on in there.

Under this point, masons would be very similar to church: there is a wide audience that really believe in god, but only the ruthless businessmen (because THIS they are) reach the higher ranks, and never reveal what's going on in there. But I don't want to go off topic.

Finally, what if the Illuminati are those few, very few masons (or just people with a lot of power in their hands and with deep contacts with that secret masonry part) that, by simply exploiting human nature (belief in god, greed, etc.) are the only ones directing the game by means of economics (banks), politics (governments infiltration), etc.?
The only ones that have in their hands something like a "plan" about global future development.

Look, I don't even necessarily imply that Illuminati and all of this are a bad thing, only that there's more than meets the eye, and not believing so is quite naive.
After all, you can't know if some brother masons are meeting also outside of the official meetings. More likely, this happens all the time: they go to dinner together, become even more close friends, develop business together, etc.

I'm just saying that, with the deep bonds each member develops inside the organization, and the organization itself spanning the whole planet since 13 centuries, it's practically impossible that a secret system hasn't spawned behind it, a system that tries to direct humanity and make the best out of it through time.
Even if this may mean the need to wipe out 6 billion people to save the planet.



So, finally the questions.
1) What do you think about this text over here?
2) Do you find any logical fallacy or unlikely?
3) Do you think it's not like I wrote, and if so, why?
4) Also, if somebody would propose you a political career, and help you reach top positions in your country, would you accept?
5) Would you accept, knowing that in the future you would receive pressure to act as these people order you, because THEY put you in that position?

Thank you for the answers!

originally posted by: megmaltese
Because there's a huge number of masons occupying top key positions in governments, companies, banks.

Such as who? Even if they are Masons, that doesn't mean the fraternity has any undue influence within those entities.

Either half of the world is mason, then, or they are so clever that they reach those positions more often than the rest of the world.

So we're up to 50% of the world is ran by Masons?

Unluckily, the most easy and possible explanation is another one: masons help each other.

This is conjecture: an opinion based on incomplete information.

In fact, some masons popped out of the organization revealing that there IS actually a secret part of it, or to better say it, some masons ACT SECRETLY apart from most other masons, like a parallel organization.
Let's call the "masons in masons" or NWO if you prefer. Or just more close friends.
The fact is, this is not only possible, but very, very likely happening.

And what evidence do you have of this?

Wouldn't even be a surprise that this secret organization inside the masons brotherhood only involves top level freemasons.

What do you consider "top level"?

In fact, that's also statistically the most possible scenario: naive masons are left in the lower ranks, helping each other with the daily business, it's the official masonry.

Why is it anti-Masons think they know what happens inside Freemasonry?

After all, you can't know if some brother masons are meeting also outside of the official meetings. More likely, this happens all the time: they go to dinner together, become even more close friends, develop business together, etc.

Are we not supposed to hang out apart from Lodge meetings?

1) What do you think about this text over here?

I think you're off. See my comments above.

2) Do you find any logical fallacy or unlikely?

I found a few fallacies.

3) Do you think it's not like I wrote, and if so, why?

I think that it is likely secret groups have formed by Masons, but it is not some cabal of the fabled "top level Freemasons."

4) Also, if somebody would propose you a political career, and help you reach top positions in your country, would you accept?

Anything I have is from my own efforts and merit, not given to me unfairly.

5) Would you accept, knowing that in the future you would receive pressure to act as these people order you, because THEY put you in that position?

That's not how Freemasonry works. The fraternity has no authority or governance over the employment duties of its members. Nor does it have the authority to put someone in a political position within any government.

originally posted by: megmaltese
Why I think this? Because there's a huge number of masons occupying top key positions in governments, companies, banks.
There are so many in fact, that statistically it's IMPOSSIBLE there are so many key positions occupied by masons if there wasn't an organization behind.

Before we get into your questions, please list a few of these masons who occupy top key positions. I just want to know that you know how to identify a mason, and see what you consider key positions.

thanks

The key position or top key position for the mason in our government is.... 3°!
Without that we would be lost and in the dark. His name is master mason!
He is running things right and better yet... he is the traveler!

I hope I cleared that up for you...

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: EA006
Did the creators of Assassins Creed make "Abstergo" an anagram of his name or is it coincidence?

As for Kenway and Black Flag, you do realize it's a fantasy game. Some of the events and figures may have been real, but not every little thing is factual.

a reply to: EA006
No. There are around 175 Grand Lodges worldwide, all of them are sovereign and independent of each other. Each of the appendant, concordant, or side bodies of Freemasonry have their own hierarchy and, for the most part, there is no single authority over each of them, but they all require permission from a Grand Lodge to operate within that Grand Lodge's jurisdiction.

a reply to: EA006
Yes.

www.travelingtemplar.com...

One correction on my link is that Ford was also in Scottish Rite. I need to fix that image.

So potentially it could have been thrown in deliberately? And yes i do realize it's a fantasy game.

There are two references to jade helm in the game, do you think that's a coincidence too?

a reply to: EA006
Where are the references?

Dear Master Mason Of The A.A.S.R....

Is The Royal Arch The Eyebrow Above The All Seeing Eye...???

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: megmaltese
Why I think this? Because there's a huge number of masons occupying top key positions in governments, companies, banks.
There are so many in fact, that statistically it's IMPOSSIBLE there are so many key positions occupied by masons if there wasn't an organization behind.

Before we get into your questions, please list a few of these masons who occupy top key positions. I just want to know that you know how to identify a mason, and see what you consider key positions.

thanks

Prodi, Monti, Boldrini. It may also happen that some masons are not really written down into the lodges officially.
This happened in the past in Italy, where LOGGIA P2 was dismantled and the list was found with a HUGE NUMBER of top level economic and politic people. So I'm not saying anything untrue. It was a large scandal in Italy. And sure as water flows, they funded it back immediately after as LOGGIA P3, and LOGGIA P4. It's all in the police reports.

But I'm no more interested in this discussion.
The reason is simple, an answer like "Such as who? Even if they are Masons, that doesn't mean the fraternity has any undue influence within those entities." doesn't deserve an answer itself, because that's the whole point of my description of how the masons work in reality.
They weld friendships and business connections thanks to the lodges, it's simply naive to think that this kind of relationships doesn't get on to deeper levels.
That's totally normal too, I don't say they shouldn't.
I just say that it's NOT normal to think that those friendships will not go beyond and become secret and acting in secret by groups of masons.
THAT would be simply... unnatural.

So I don't trust this guy here, he's not answering, he's just denying something that is really SOCIALLY and PSYCHICALLY plausible and trying to ridiculize me: it's a normal behaviour when there's no real answer to give.
"I found a few fallacies." is clear: of course I can't give any proof, it's all deductive reasoning, but not for this it has less value.
As I always say, you don't need to taste sh*t, to be sure you don't like it: you have hints that tell you it's something you don't want to taste, like in example the smell, or consistency, or the fact that people don't usually eat it.

That goes for masons: they make rites, they weld friendships and business contacts, and it's known there's a whole lot of them on key positions. So you can make some deduction.
How one can trust in a complete honesty from them?
Honour?
Or because people are normally honest?
Just let me laugh about that

By the way, if you REALLY want to know who are the masons on key positions in the world, you can easily check for yourself, it's a much more easy task for you mason than for me.
But of course now I won't be expecting any answer, and I really wouldn't trust any anyway, so, save your time.



To all the other readers: you are naive if you think a mason would reveal what is REALLY going on inside the brotherhood.
I think the guy here is on a MISSION: defending masons at any cost, against any accusation, even one that is completely plausible like what I wrote hereup.
I didn't suppose they are devil's followers or war spawners, I just said that their friendships and business contacts go into the secret area... and the guy denies also this BASIC normal human behaviour. Just ridiculous.

You want to know who they are? What they do? Read the news.
www.ilfattoquotidiano.it...
I'm sorry this is in italian but I'm pretty sure if you look hard enough you'll find a newspaper that treats the argument in such a similar depth.
Case closed for me here.

P.s.: just to clear it all. I think that MOST of masons really think what they see is all there is. They are true in their feelings and just party and friend in there. But thinking that ALL of them are clear, true people is soooo naive it's ridiculous. But yes, there MUST be a base of common people that makes a good show of the brotherhood. Not all of them are acting in secret. But some are. A good % is. And thinking different is just ridiculous imho.

originally posted by: megmaltese
It may also happen that some masons are not really written down into the lodges officially.

Arguement from Ignorance

This happened in the past in Italy,

Association Fallacy

By the way, if you REALLY want to know who are the masons on key positions in the world, you can easily check for yourself, it's a much more easy task for you mason than for me.

Shifting the Burden of Proof

But of course now I won't be expecting any answer, and I really wouldn't trust any anyway, so, save your time.

Begging the Question

To all the other readers: you are naive if you think a mason would reveal what is REALLY going on inside the brotherhood.

Ad Hominem

etc...

a reply to: megmaltese

Laura Boldrini seems to be a woman, and out of niceness, I also looked up Romano Prodi and Mario Monti, and didn't see that either were masons. I'll let you figure out why Boldrini won't be on any lodge list.

But this is the norm for masonic accusations.

I like Masons, they live in the naive world of trying to achieve fullfillment of being a human, you forget we created this illusion with Sargon, ever wondered what a changeling is, or you call him the time lord. You fit in with the ideals of the illusion of Moses and the ten commandments, since my ancestry needed so switch from Ashur to more primitive form of ideals for primates to follow.
Time and time is for a man to follow, you are not a man.

a reply to: megmaltese
So you start off with, here are Masons, but there's probably no record? Hmmm...that's not a good start to your post.

P2 was a clandestine or irregular Lodge that didn't practice Freemasonry and is the furthest example you can give of anything wrong that happens in actual Freemasonry.

Your whole point though is not an accurate depiction of Freemasonry.

You can "wield friendships and business connections" because of any relationship and connection. Even in the "deeper levels" there is still no undue influence. Yes, there are friendships and business connections can occur, but there is nothing sinister or devious going on, and it's not like this doesn't occur outside of Freemasonry.

I wasn't trying to ridicule you. I was giving my response to your post. It was an answer, it was just not an answer you liked.

You gave a few last names, but you gave no proof that they are Masons. Then you started talking about a Lodge who lost their charter in the 70s.

It seems though you have a dismissive attitude, you won't provide any evidence, but then say any given to you by a Mason you won't trust or expect.

Our mission is standing by the truth, not giving into nonsensical conspiracy theories or accusations that don't have any evidence. You say an accusation is plausible, but then provide no logical argument or evidence in support of it.

Your news link has some interesting articles, but some seem like pointless attacks on the fraternity and I know Italy isn't the most conducive nation for Freemasonry.

No Mason here is saying that all Masons are good, but you don't burn down an orchard for a few bad apples. I find it also a poorly formed argument to assume only bad Masons make it to the "deeper levels" and are allowed to use it for nefarious purposes.