Are middle easterns good people overall? Or true terrorists?

Meh, well...
I purposely skipped ahead and put my flame retardant suit specifically for this...

I DO NOT have ANY problem with muslims, or any peoples of Middle-Eastern countries, or anyone outside of my own ethnicity for that matter. Firstly... how many Americans had a fear of them prior to 9-11? Without a show of hands, I'm sure it was not near as many as afterwards. Why? For what reason? Now for the sake of the point, and also to show how ignorant some 'people' can really be. (actually there are many that I could think of... just from reading a couple of the posts here but)

I had been working in a retail location prior to 9-11 for quite some time, and I had gotten to the point of knowing most of the regulars on a first name basis... it is a pretty diverse locale ethnically, and there are a few Middle-Eastern families that were always stopping in to purchase goods and one gentleman that was a regular maintenance guy (for lack of a better term) that I had later learned was from Iraq and moved here during Desert Storm.
Anyway, it really didn't dawn on me until months later... when I was checking things out for spring that he had not been in to service our system. I asked my boss (at the time) what was up, and I had gotten a response something in the order of this:
"Well, you know, (Mr. X) is an Iraqi, and he has had to suspend his works due to being harassed by various citizens." That was a shocker to me, he was a really nice guy working hard for a living here in the states... just because of his nationality he was stereotyped into being a "terrorist" and almost lost everything he had built for his family. That kind of mentality literally makes me sick, and yet we all wonder why we can't have world peace.

The other few that come in, well... mostly they gotten ignored enough from some of our management that now they seem to wait patiently in line to talk to me. Why is that so? Is nobody else willing to give them the time of day or give them the same respect we would only hope to have likewise? This isn't with just Middle-Easterners, I see the same thing with Hispanics... et al. Most of the time I dare not to go into rants on the price of gas... as everyone that comes in is complaining about it, as there is always one or two of the gung-ho's that decide to get into the conversation, and the only thing they have to offer is the mentality and rhetoric "les jus go in dere and turn all dat sand to glass, an we can have all da oil we need."

I guess, stupid is as stupid does, Forrest... maybe next time some of ya's will see the trees.

That ends my rant for the day, if I managed to get some of you mad... then great...! If you wish to attack me, you should know I will be long gone from this thread by the time you read this, but on the other hand if I have made at least one of you think, then my job here is done... It's Miller Time anyway...


Cheers,
T-

reply to post by telemetry


There might be a qualifying difference between immigrants to Western countries and people who stay home. Maybe. A different grouping perhaps. Islamic Law is markedly different from Western law.
Like I said, I have issues with revolutionary/radical Islam becasue it reminds me of any ideological fanaticism.
It sucks. And its days are numbered. I can't remember the last time we burned a witch, but SOME of these folks are right there, right now.

Originally posted by TheComte

Originally posted by PullThePin
Christianity is the New Testament. "Love Each Other" is the commandment of Jesus Christ. Jesus never gave a single command to kill or cripple people. You cannot say the same for Muhammad.

Sorry but it's the truth. Why does everyone jump to defend such an obviously violent religion?

[edit on 25-6-2008 by PullThePin]

If it's the truth why don't you answer the question I posed to you earlier? Why did you ignore my post? The only thing that is obvious is that you know little of history.

If Islam is so violent and bent on destruction of all non-Muslims, why did they tolerate living side by side with Jews and Christians for centuries?

Why, when Islam captured Jerusalem in 637, did the Muslims not massacre every single inhabitant, like the Crusaders did 360 years later? Why did they spare Jewish and Christian holy places?

I think you know the answer but then if you say it you will have to acknowledge that your quotes are taken out of context.

Obviously not everyone follows Islam to the T. If it were like that then this war would be declared a war on Islam not just a vague "war on terror."
Also I don't believe it would be a good idea to kill anyone and everyone who doesn't follow Islam if you're goal is worldwide Sharia Law like they want. If they were doing that a war would be outright declared on Islam and their goals would be put to an end.

Well your viewing everything from your perspective, everything people believe is due to their personal beliefs, whether you are Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Catholic, whatever you will feel the way you feel about another person based on what the majority of like minded individuals like yourself believe. People are taught to dislike other cultures and such, which is why there will never truely be peace on this planet.

reply to post by Bombeni


The immigration in Europe as more to do with the rebuilding of post –war-Europe then actually a guilt feeling from Germany.
It is a fact that most of the population that immigrated in Europe where from former colonial country. On the case of Germany, the Turks where prominent group to immigrate because they country signed “guest worker” agreement, immigration of largely unskilled male labor.
Like all over western Europe Germany had dedicated they recourses to educate they citizen to the highest degree therefore they need it many inexpensive and untrained labor to do the job that German, French,… didn’t want to do and also to cop with the booming economic period.

Kacou

I have no problem with Islamic People, but we need laws passed which outlaw the promotion of Sharia Law. All Islamic people are willing to support death for violations of sharia law. So you say something some Mullah dosen't like and off comes your head. Don't believe me, ask Cat Stevens?

I am begging all you Islamic folks out there make a liar out of me. Denounce Sharia Law now! Show us that we have nothing to fear. Because you support peace above sharia law.
I wish and hope that I am a loud mouted fool spouting off! Please prove it!
Here is your chance.

The answer to this threat is simple, promote the any other law than the law of the native country, get deported. If you are a citizen, you get fined or jailed.

Not all middle eastern people are Islamic, and not all Islamic people are terrorists. But all Islamic people are a threat to any society they are allowed to immigrate to because they promote the spread of their beliefs and the use of death as a punishment for contradicting them. Check out the news on France and Holland if think otherwise.

Here is a lesson in manners, if a nation is willing to let you come live there and partake in their free society and practice your religion, then you owe it to them to not try and take away their freedom to practice their religions. You cannot claim to be for peace, as long as the person dosen't say bad things about Muhammad, and then you are for death. There can be no exceptions to this. Peace and philosphical / religious homicide are mutually exclusive.

This is the alternative: I worship xytocotle who demands the worship of pork and pork products. If you say anything against xytocotle, pork or pork products, including pork by products, and fillers, and under my system of law; Swine Justice. I am free to rip out your heart and feed it to a pig.

Sounds fair to me. You come to our country, you give up Sharia Law and accept ours. If you cannot do that, you don't come here. You try to shove your belief system down my throat with death threats, and I rip your heart out and feed it to pigs.

Okay, to the American members on this thread i am going to give you a comparision (I am not anti-American btw).

During the 'troubles' in Northern Ireland with Britain, did you consider ALL the Irish as terrorists? No.

Well surprisingly neither did we (British), considering that for 40 years the Republicans were bombing, shooting, knee-capping and applying extortion.
Also consider that they were white, spoke English (sic), christian and lived throughout the British Isles as our neighbours. Add to that the fact that they were supported by a large funding group in the US itself and various Presidents welcomed with open arms PIRA leaders.

The same situation applied in Northern Ireland as it does in the Middle East. The majority of its peoples just want to live a normal life and get on with each other. Its the 1% that spoil it all and taint the remaining 99% with their idealistic bulls***.

Incidently, some of my best friends and colleagues are from Northern Ireland and are catholic and protestant.

The point I am trying to make is that you have to see the wood from the trees.

I would say that all people have their share of good people and hate mongering radicals. The people of the Middle East are no different, and they are certainly as decent as the rest of the people around the world.

I don't care for the Muslim religion, and if I say that I think that Mohammad was a false prophet and you can accept that as my opinion, and respect my right to my point of view, then we have no problem. If you say Westerner's have low moral standards and are too materialistic, I can respect your opinion. The reality is that the situation is complicated, and we are going through a conflict between the two civilizations. Hopefully, we can work through this and all learn to get along and respect each other.

Originally posted by helium3
This has to be the most ignorant thread of the year sadly what scares me even more is people actually think way. Secondly ATS lets this thread side in the main sections, for real if this thread was titled "Are all Jewish people tight with there money, or just some ?" how long till the thread was moved to BTS or a low traffic section ?.

Shame on you ATS

[edit on 25-6-2008 by helium3]

As ugly as this thinking is, hiding it does not make it go away. In my opinion, bring it into the light for all to see.

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
The answer to the title question is simple - there are good and bad people everywhere. To say that one country has "good" people and another has "bad" only proves that mind control is a reality.

Or that ignorance is a reality

Originally posted by PullThePin
Obviously not everyone follows Islam to the T.

Riiiight...least of all the Caliph Umar, who was a righteous companion of Muhammed, and second Sunni caliph after the the death of Abu Bakr. Can't expect him to follow the tenets of Islam.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by TheComte]

Originally posted by thematrix
reply to post by Bombeni

 

The clanism of specific population groups isn't actually "muslims" over here, your simply guilty of another generalization, the plague of western thinking.

Turks and Moroccans do NOT get along, both are Muslim and only when there is a controversy related to Islam, you'll see both groups protesting , but don't mistake, they don't protest together.

Same goes for forming regional density's. In Belgium, we have cities where there's a lot of Turks and cities where there's a lot of Moroccans, but rarely both. And when there are both, like in Brussels, the area's with the 2 don't mix and are often at opposite sides of town.

Brussels also has the notorious "Matumbo" area, which is specifically Congolese, you won't find any other African nationalities in that specific area, because they simply don't get along. Neither will you easily find Hutu and Tutsi Congolese mixed in the same street, they've been in tribal wars in Congo for ages and the fear they have for each other still runs very deep.

Here's something a Hutu friend of mine told me once:

Only for to the White man is black black.

Just like most whites call all squint eyed yellow looking people Chinese and all black people African and all sand brown people Arabs or muslims.

And the weird part about this is that, people blame the media entirely for this, while, if you just look at the information and reporting on Iraq, you'll see its filled with information about the different factions at play there.

People bitch about the education system, media, government, ... being to blame and manipulating us.

Well, don't point fingers before looking at yourself deep and hard first.
Only when you allow them to manipulate you, they can do so.

And why shouldn't they? We make it so easy for them by having more interest in how messed up Britney Spears is at the very moment or how many times Paris Hilton has shown skin today, then to pay some attention to what the frick is going on in the world.

CHANGE STARTS WITH US

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with a lot of what you said. There is a lot of fighting among different muslim sects, has been so for many centuries. That is why Saddam was a good ruler for Iraq; he kept a semblance of peace in the land. It required one-mean-sumbitch to keep those people civil.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by Bombeni]

Originally posted by gate13
any one who hates every middle eastern person is in some cult like the KKK.

has the US goverment brainwashed that many people ? making them think that arabs are that bad of people?

there is good and bad in every race.

but il leave you with one point.

Iraq befor this war was one of the most modern middle eastern countrys.

some of the best medical facilitys and education.

america entered it and turned it to ruble

I agree completely, Iraq had nothing to do with 911; Saddam had things in pretty good order there and they were not a threat per se. Osama bin laden hit the nail on the head, after 911, when he said "All I have to do is sit back and watch now" --- his plan worked perfectly. He had been training terrorists for years knowing an attack on American soil would draw them into a war one way or another, and when GW Bush was elected he knew it was his perfect opportunity to lay his trap.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by Bombeni]

reply to post by Bombeni


Don't forget its not just muslims that are like that.
Christian sects in the US don't get along. Heck, there's a thread on ATS talking about how one head smuck of one of these sects pritty much hates Obama because Baracks interpretation of the Bible is different from theirs.

Even in sports, for instance soccer and football, the anger and hate for other teams leads to gigantic fights and murders.

Difference in Color has been a sort like issue for eons.

Heck, even online, you see massive wars take place between forums and sites, people get hated and harassed for belonging to certain user groups.
You see people harassed and hated for playing certain types of games by players who play other types of games.

In IT, its Linux vs Windows, Java programmers vs VB Programmers, etc etc etc.

Human kind, as it is now, is way to aggressive and scared of anyone and everything thats the slightest bit different.

reply to post by thematrix



People in the states disagree, there are all sorts of rivalries but they don't involve bloodshed. Well except for rival gangs, they are all thugs thieves drug runners pimps and murderers anyway. Half of them are in prison at any given time, the other half are killing each other off at a rate of about 1 in 4. Too bad Saddam couldn't of got his hands on them.

I have always overall liked middle easterners. Most muslims (from the middle east) have decent moral values and if they have immigrated to the u.s. they are educated, well mannered people. They instill values in their children, they don't live off of welfare, they do not raise their children to be thugs. They are good people.

(Note once again I am specifically referring to Muslims from the Middle East here).

The OP asks "are middle easterns...good...terrorists"

So I would like to ask again:

What Middle Eastern people are you talking about?
Do you mean muslims, and if you do, do you include African muslims, South East Asian muslims, American muslims?
Do you mean Arabs, and if you do, do you include Moroccans, Tunisians, Algerians, Egyptians, French/Algerians? What about "pieds noirs" who are Algerian Jews?
Do you mean the Middle East as in the region of the Middle East, and if you do, how do you feel about Persians, Persian Jews, Syrian Jews, Maronite Christians, Coptic Christians, Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Parsis, Bahá'ís who all reside there?

One things for sure, I have always wondered how much ignorance can be squeezed into one thread title, question answered.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Well I consider Muslim middle easterners to be primarily Persians and Arabs living in the middle east and Egypt. The other smaller religious groups aren't all that active in terrorism (christians, sufis, zorastrians) and I am pretty sure the op did not think about that when phrased the question. I specifically did NOT include sub-saharan African Muslims in my comments.

Originally posted by Sonya610
I have always overall liked middle easterners. Most muslims (from the middle east) have decent moral values and if they have immigrated to the u.s. they are educated, well mannered people. They instill values in their children, they don't live off of welfare, they do not raise their children to be thugs. They are good people.

(Note once again I am specifically referring to Muslims from the Middle East here).

You are right Sonya they don't cause trouble here in the states, they are a very very small percentage of the U.S. population. They tend to keep to themselves, and I am going to let the cat out of the bag here, but the business I am in brings me into contact with them on a regular basis. A muslim here in the US wouldn't dare DREAM of hiring a white or African American to do any work for them. They have low personal views of Americans, however they do like our democracy and the opportunity to make money in our country, but they stay together for the most part. I know a few American ladies married to muslims, they have to tow the line, convert, to get along and have peace. They may rebel, those end in divorce, and I know of a few fairly brutal beatings that were given to women who chose this option. So I guess it depends on what you consider good moral values to be. IMO a moral man does not feel he has the liberty to beat his wife, require them to stay in the kitchen until the men have eaten, not allow them out of the house alone. This doesn't happen in all cases here in the states, but if those same men took their American bride back to their country they would lower the boom on them day one. They could not face their families if the wife was allowed equal rights. I wanted to remain middle-of-the-road on this subject but might as well put my cards on the table. But I agree as you said, in dealing with them they are courteous.

reply to post by Bombeni



Well Bombei the Muslims I have know best were women, mostly from Iran or Afghanistan. They were strong willed women too, though they do dote on their families. In the case of my Afghani hairdresser (she immigrated 20 years ago and comes from an educated family) she explained that in their culture the husband gives all of the finances to his bride. She controls the money regardless of who earns it.

I have never really dated Muslim men myself, some may be very nice looking but they often lack errmmm...experience... in some regards. The only middle easterners I have worked for have been Jews, so I can't speak to how Muslims from the middle east view hiring white americans (but we don't have that many here to begin with). You could be right about them hesitating to hire white americans, on the otherhand I have dealt with them in business and found them to be decent and honest (and not nearly annoying as Indians as an example).