We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat, Here Is Proof

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack

How about the fact that a raw vegan diet has been proven to cure, cancer, asthma, diabetes, cystic fibrosis and many other ailments,

This has been proven? Where? By who?

It's true we were designed to eat the fruit of the trees, the grains of the field and the herbs of the ground.

And the flesh of delicious animals. :-)

If you sow death into your body, your body will reap death, if you sow life into your body, your body will reap life.

So... vegans are immortal?

reply to post by jimmyjackblack


Hey...I don't hate anyone.

People do get a little nutty about their pets and they have been left large sums of money by their recently deceased former owners. I honestly don't care if someone trains their dogs to eat peas and carrots or jump through hoops and bark out the alphabet. Pets can be trained to do just about anything but that doesn't mean they were designed to do it.

ON TOPIC:

Since you used Pandas as an example of how having canines doesn't mean you are designed to eat meat and it turns out they actually DO eat meat, is it fine for us to do it as well?

To me they have become a perfect and justifiable example of an omnivore by nature much like myself.

What do you think?

- Lee

Originally posted by mattifikation

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack

How about the fact that a raw vegan diet has been proven to cure, cancer, asthma, diabetes, cystic fibrosis and many other ailments,

This has been proven? Where? By who?

It's been proven by people who had these ailments and became vegans, I know some of them.
Also, meat turns your body's pH level to acid, fruits, veggies and grains turn it to alkaline, if your body is alkaline you will be immune to most illnesses and you wil reverse cancer.

It's true we were designed to eat the fruit of the trees, the grains of the field and the herbs of the ground.

And the flesh of delicious animals. :-)


Wrong, our digestive tract is too long for meat, it sits in your colon and putrifies, it rots, this is very bad and a mager cause of colon cancer.
God created us to eat fruits, veggies, grains, read the Bible, you'll see.

If you sow death into your body, your body will reap death, if you sow life into your body, your body will reap life.

So... vegans are immortal?

Yep, pretty much lol, j/k.
No, vegans are just more healthier than the average person, simply becaue we eat right, breathe right and take care of ourselves and others.

-Jimmy

People are trying to force this issue into the realm of morality and ethics. A statement such as "humans shouldn't eat meat" is a normative statement, not an objective fact.

A normative statement expresses a judgment about whether a situation is desirable or undesirable. "Humans shouldn't eat meat." is a normative statement because it expresses a judgment about what ought to be. This statement cannot be disproved. If you disagree with it, you have no sure way of convincing someone who believes the statement that he is wrong. It is impossible to prove one way or the other.

"Humans are biologically adapted to eat both meat and vegetables," however, is an objective fact. It remains true despite belief or criticism.

Originally posted by lee anoma
reply to post by jimmyjackblack

 

Hey...I don't hate anyone.

People do get a little nutty about their pets and they have been left large sums of money by their recently deceased former owners. I honestly don't care if someone trains their dogs to eat peas and carrots or jump through hoops and bark out the alphabet. Pets can be trained to do just about anything but that doesn't mean they were designed to do it.

ON TOPIC:

Since you used Pandas as an example of how having canines doesn't mean you are designed to eat meat and it turns out they actually DO eat meat, is it fine for us to do it as well?

To me they have become a perfect and justifiable example of an omnivore by nature much like myself.

What do you think?

- Lee

Ok, how about camels? How about how our bodies have a pretty long intestine and meat rots in it? Also, I wouldn't be so opposed to eating meat if it were'nt for what people do to the meat before it's killed, also, killing another living creature just to live, it's just wrong, I don't know why, it's just wrong. We are not designed to eat meat, what are the benifits of something rotting in your intestine and basicly clogging it up and causing more and more of a risk of colon cancer and other cancers, it's just bad news.
I find that when I talk to people about meat and veganism, they get really mad, violent almost, meat is a powerful drug, it's jsut not good.

-Jimmy

Originally posted by BlaznRob
"Humans are biologically adapted to eat both meat and vegetables," however, is an objective fact. It remains true despite belief or criticism.

No, you are very, very wrong, just because you put junk in, doesn't mean you are doing what is biologicly natural or right for your body.
I can eat and live off of candy, just because I can do it doesn't mean it's good to do it, right to do it, or is in any way benificially good for my body, the same with meat and many other foods, like fried foods.
If you have evolved or adapted to eat the things we eat, then we would not have such an adverse effect to it.
Name your illness, it can be linked directly with consuming meat or cooked foods.

-Jimmy

Apologies for not reading the whole of this thread but i just found this article and thought it may be relevant to the discussions.

Becoming a vegetarian could be good for the planet, but it’s bad for your brain. Scientists at Oxford University in England have found that vegetarians are six times more likely to have brain shrinkage than those who include meats in their diets.

The cause could be a lack of vitamins. Vegetarians are more likely than meat-eaters to be deficient in vitamin B12, which is mainly found in meats, and a B12 deficiency is known to cause anemia and inflammation of the nervous system.

Oxford researchers examined 107 people between the age of 61 and 87 using physical exams, memory tests and brain scans. When the same volunteers were retested five years later, those with the lowest amounts of B12 had the most brain atrophy.

Swedish researchers found that being overweight is also linked to brain loss. Women with a BMI (body mass index) that averaged 27 showed brain shrinkage. (A BMI of 25 or over is “overweight” and a BMI of 30 or higher is “obese.”) For every additional point in BMI, brain loss increased by 13 to 16 percent.



Source

www.newsmax.com...

How about how our bodies have a pretty long intestine and meat rots in it?

Everything, including plant matter "rots" in your gut. The definition of "to rot": the process of decay caused by bacterial or fungal action. Contrast that to the definition for digestion: the organic process by which food is converted into substances that can be absorbed into the body.

Making the statement "meat rots in your gut" is just using language to induce some sort of horrific idea that we have meat putrefying inside us. Again, to clarify: Putrefaction usually results in amines such as putrescine and cadaverine, which are both toxic and do not form inside our intestines in significant amounts upon consuming meat.

Irregardless of the type of matter consumed, it takes about 12 to 24 hours, depending on individual metabolism, from mastication to excretion.

[edit on 16-9-2008 by BlaznRob]

Originally posted by jimmyjackblack
God Instructs us to be Vegan
(I'm a Christian, this is one of the main reasons why I'm going to become vegan agian)

-Jimmy

You really believe that?

The bible is full of animal sacrifices and feasts that include red meat.

I don't like using the bible to prove anything personally.

The book seems to contradict itself at times and if we followed some of the instructions in the old testament to the letter we wouldn't need to be meat-eaters to make us look like "cruel savages" but here are a few random passages of meat being eaten from a quick Google search.

Although a seemingly Christian website they seem to have a "beef" with Vegans.
Nevertheless the passages seem to check out from what I can tell:

Genesis 25:27,28; 27:1-4 - Esau was a skillful hunter. His father Isaac loved Esau because he ate what Esau killed.

Genesis 43:16 - Joseph had an animal slaughtered for his brothers to eat with him.

1 Samuel 25:18 - Abigail brought sheep dressed to eat as a gift to David and his men.

1 Kings 4:22,23 - Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived, ate oxen, sheep, deer, gazelles, roebucks, and fowl.

1 Kings 19:21 - Elisha slaughtered oxen to feed people.

1 Chronicles 12:39,40 - David and the people ate oxen and sheep when he was named king.

Nehemiah 5:17,18 - Nehemiah provided for those who ate with him oxen, sheep, and fowl.

Matthew 3:4 - John the Baptist ate locusts and wild honey.
Thegospelway.com

It even mentions...hunting!

Even still, I'm not saying we should eat meat because the bible says so, because I don't really think it matters to a higher power either way.

- Lee

reply to post by jimmyjackblack


And here, I thought I might actually get to read some sources about this miracle cure-all that is veganism. It turns out, you're simply confusing an extremely small sampling of random, uncontrolled events - that barely existent percentage that you've witnessed - and confusing them with something conclusive such as a controlled experiment that follows the scientific method or maybe even a widely-sweeping survey of the dietary habits of people who have had cancer and other deadly diseases.

I eat meat, I'm healthy as all get-out. I haven't had to go to the doctor in years. I've spent five years in my current job, and I've only missed one day due to being sick. I'm not fat, either. But I'm not going to sit here and tell you that my health is proof that my diet is better than yours.

Meat rots in my stomach eh? I guess that means I can go ahead and eat some rotten meat then, since I've had rotting meat in my guts for decades now with no ill effect.

As for the religious arguments, I'll neither be addressing them nor reading them. I couldn't care less what some dusty old book written by Jewish power brokers says I should eat.

reply to post by lee anoma


Well, if you read that in the very beginning God created man to be vegan, he lived till nearly a thousand years, then after the flood man started eating meat, his life span started to dwendle down.
There are other acncient books that talk about man living a long time, but to fully understand ancient history (and not just the same old bs that is repeated in schools and colleges), you need to read a lot of ancient documents and use the correct gage of inference to understand what's going on, like the fact that every culture has a version of the biblical flood, even native americans, but in every story only a few people escape the flood, usually by building a large boat of some sort, now I don't think that every culture could have just one small group of people escaping the melt down of the ice age or something like that, it all points to an ancient flood and the story has carried on since that time throught history, sorta like how most ancient cultures talk about people being created to be vegan and living a lot longer than what we do now days, it all confirms that people lived long back then when they were vegan.

And for those asking for hard proof that becoming vegan can cure cancer, diabetes, ect., Well I'm sorry, I don't have any papers on it or anything, simply because doctors don't want you to know about it, and they themselves probably don't know about it.

Question 1.
Think about this for a minute, what costs more, a quater pounder with cheese, fry's and a coke at McDonalds or a bag of 10 small apples at the grocery store? believe it or not, the apples (where I'm at, middle of the U.S.) cost about a dollar more than a number 4 at McD's.
You see the problem is, there is money put into prosseing all that meat, money put into making the buns, condaments ect., but not even a fraction of the effort/energy put into pciking and selling apples, so why do they cost more? There not hard to find, anyone in the U.S. can grow an apple tree. Basicly, why does it cost more to eat healthy?

Answer:

The FDA is trying to kill us and make us dossle (spelling?) by letting food companies put dangerous and addictive chemicals in our food, then drug companies create a drug with horrible side effects (sometimes the side effects are worse than the symptom it "cures") to cure the problems we're having because of our bodies pH level is off balance.
Only 500 Million.

Question 2.
Why do doctors not tell people about this miracle diet that reverses cancer, they are doctors and want the best for people right?

Answer:

Sadly no, the doctors don't really give a crap about you, they just want you to take some pills that they get paid to prescribe. Doctors make money off of your bad health, your pain and suffering.
Case in point, I had a kidney stone one time, those things are so freakin painful. I went to the doctor at the clinic where I worked, he prescribed "FlowMax" and some pain killers, he wanted me to pass it naturally. Well flowmax shrinks the prostate, it also carries a high riskj of causing cesures, so I decided not to take it, it isn't worth my life and the two different medicines cost an arm and a leg. I decided to find a natural cure, something safer. If you ever, ever get a kidney stine DO NOT go to the doctor, it's a waste of money, instead, get some vitamin c and cranberry pills as well as cranberry juice, you will actually be able to DISSOLVE the kidney stone, you wont have to pass it at all.
The doctor probably knew about this simple cure, but decided NOT to tell me about it, he wanted me to take some pills that he gets paid to subscribe.

You wont find any good thruthful medical or scientific papers about how great veganism is, simply because it won't make them any money, that's what it all comes down to.

I know personally a few vegans that have felt the effects of this "miricale cure", but I know thousands on the internet that testify to this "miracle cure" as well.

-Jimmy

Disregarding the health issues argued for and against this debate, I'll fire a shot across the bow of the philosophical and moral-based argument.

Ie: Is it wrong to kill something so that we may eat?

Vegetarians see the meat on the supermarket shelves and they weep for the "victim," however, vegetable and cereal crops are the foods of many animals, and, as such, agricultural fields become habitat. Rodents and birds often nest in farmland, especially grain crops, and they multiply rapidly, which only increases the death tally during field preparation and harvest. The rodent population attracts predatory snakes, which are also killed come harvest-time.

What of the rabbits, mice, pheasants, snakes and other field animals killed during the land preparation, the planting and the harvesting of crops? The death toll rises with each pass of the plow, tiller, and harvester. These animals are not just killed, but often maimed and left to suffer a slow painful death; however these deaths are "invisible" since they are unseen by the consumer. This doesn't even consider invertebrate (insect) life lost to mass agriculture.

What is the morally relevant difference between a cow and a field mouse?

Vegan diets are not bloodless diets. Unless you grow and harvest, by hand, 100% of your food, including all the grains which go into your bread and cereals, then you live on the death of animals. Just because the animal is lying dead in the field instead of on your plate, doesn't make it any less dead, or any more "humane."

reply to post by BlaznRob

I'll fire a shot across your own moral bow... vego's are generally a lot more concerned about life than people like yourself, so scrounging for rhetorical brownie points is a bit of a joke.

[edit on 20-9-2008 by Shar_Chi]

how is meat going to rot in our long intestines if it only takes a few hours to pass through. at least mine do. That not a whole lot of time to let the meat rot. plant matter would rot too using the same logic.

Also, I just caught 4 blue fin yesterday. each gave me a 10 pound fillet of meat, and I am going to eat all of it. The poor poor tuna.

Are you equally as angry at your dog and pet cat because they are meat eaters? evil cats, and dogs, and sea otters. just cause they are cute doesn't mean they aren't evil.

You know who I really feel sorry for? cows. all they get to eat is grass. that must suck.

Meat is good for you. we were intended to eat it.

I say we should be eating primarily fruits, some vegetables but not most, and nuts n berries, but not really grain, and finally meat when we can find it or obtain it.

also, take a look at your mouth. you have these things called bi cuspids. the tools of an omnivore sorta flat to crush vegetables, but with duel points to dig into and tear apart flesh. gasp!!!!! you have the tools of death built right into your mouth. now why did god do that if he wanted us to only eat plants.

I once thought we started eating meat due to the ice age because plants wouldn't grow.
But then what did other animals eat?Grass I guess.
We cant live on grass we need complex proteins from more complex plants than grass and these plants wouldn't grow.
This could be why the ancient Japanese started eating seaweed because it can grow at -100 degree temperatures.

reply to post by Shar_Chi


I don't make morality claims about food, because I know that to eat anything, animals are going to die. It's the vegans who attempt to make morality claims about food, and I was pointing out the sheer hypocrisy in doing so.

As I said, whats the moral difference between livestock, and the lives lost due to agriculture? If it is morally wrong to kill and eat livestock, then it's morally wrong for countless field animals to be slaughtered during crop production.

Vegans like to think they're more concerned with life, but in reality, they're diet causes the suffering and death of countless animals. It could be argued that because these animals do not make it to the supermarket, and are instead left to rot in the fields that these deaths are even more senseless than livestock production.

One of the best way that we could reduce animal death to a minimum would be to subsist on primarily ruminant-pasture farming (which would replace all poultry, pig and lamb production with beef and dairy products), and no-till agriculture. The combination of these two would not only result in a net-loss of life (Steven Davis, of Oregon University, estimates that such a model would result in the deaths of 300 million fewer animals annually), but also less pollution, soil depletion, and run-off.

Ignoring the fact that a vegan diet is just as bloody as an omnivorous one is remaining willfully ignorant. To avoid hypocrisy, person who finds it morally wrong to take the lives of animals must rail against not only livestock-farming, but also against all current models of agricultural production.

I am a waiter, and this whole thread reminds me of a time a guest asked me what I recommended for Vegetarians, and I replied, without missing a beat, that "You start eating meat immediately!" It's well established that we are omnivores, so leave me and my juicy steak alone! The evolutionary mistake that the cow made is that it's delicious! You should always strive to not be delicious, or at the top of the food chain!

Beef! It's what's for dinner!

reply to post by JaxonRoberts

Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
I am a waiter, and this whole thread reminds me of a time a guest asked me what I recommended for Vegetarians, and I replied, without missing a beat, that "You start eating meat immediately!"

They asked you for a vegetarian recommendation and you came back with a disregard for their request. If that was me eating in your establishment, your lack of courtesy would have had me quietly exiting.

As far as vegetables, the Book of Daniel does describe a test of diet that is noteworthy. Daniel and his companions were to be fed the kings diet, but this is what happened:

Daniel 1:12
“Please test your servants for ten days, and let us be given some vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13 “Then let our appearance be observed in your presence and the appearance of the youths who are eating the king’s choice food; and deal with your servants according to what you see.” 14 So he listened to them in this matter and tested them for ten days. 15 At the end of ten days their appearance seemed better and they were fatter than all the youths who had been eating the king’s choice food.

While I am a meat eater, study would suggest, that consuming larger amounts of vegetables is a good dietary habit.

Peace

[edit on 21-9-2008 by HIFIGUY]

Humans are obviously omnivores. And the headline "We weren't designed to eat meat" makes me cringe, but It's been that way in our development. It's also similar to that of chimps and orangutans, but you can't forget that the largest and the most powerful of all primates is a 700 pound vegan with the largest canines in the primate family. Do gorillas tear flesh? No, very rarely anything but bugs from time to time.



Doing something we've done for the past 7 million years or so, doesn't necessarily mean that gives us the green light to do it in the 21st century. Especially it's not longer a hunter/hunted affair, but an affair that wreaks havoc from one end of the earth to another.

That's where "being human" comes into play.

reply to post by HIFIGUY


Actually, they took it for what it was, a joke! I then went on to make a few recommendations, and at the end of the meal, I was tipped quite nicely, thank you very much! Apparently, you have no sense of humor, as if you read my post, you would see that it was intended to be tongue in cheek! Must we always be serious? Is there a rule on ATS that I missed? Come on!