We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat, Here Is Proof

reply to post by BASSPLYR


And another trait that is prevalent in carnivores which demonstrates higher intelligence: The offspring must be taught to hunt! Herbivores do not need to learn, they just start grazing by instinct.

I am certainly glad that I have evolved to the point where I do not need to spend 80 percent of my life grazing in my back yard on the lawn and shrubs!

It has only been in the past 100 years that humans have had year round access to a wide variety of vegetables and fruit. Much of what we eat in the form of vegetation comes from areas suited to grow things that are not indigenous to where we live. Prior to fast transportation, de-hydration, and refrigeration, human diets were restricted to what was locally available and seasonally for much of the fruits and other perishable food. Now days, you can have your fruit salad year round and because of that you can enjoy a longer life than that of your ancestors.

The only way vegetarians can survive today is because they have access to this wide supply of foreign produce and supplements not available in he past.

Arguments that try to prove the vegetarian nature of humans are exercises in ignorance.

How we get our meat today and how the animals are treated is indeed a nasty situation. This has come about due to a daisy chain of greater food supply breeds higher population, which breeds more food production, which breeds more humans! To supply the human population and it's ever growing numbers, the food production systems have become more efficient. This efficiency has resulted in horrible situations for the animals we eat. What is the answer? The answer is to go back to the ways of our great-great grandparents. Farm and hunt! The world's ecology would not be able to supply that kind of lifestyle to the current population. Each of us would require many acres of land to raise our food and huge areas of wild forests in which to hunt.

Eating meat has been the driving force in our evolution. Long live the prime rib on the hoof - until I get the BBQ fired up!

I must admit I haven't read every word of the 40+ pages here. I've read a fair bit of it though. The OP right from the start has fabricated some of the original comparisson table to try to support their own theory. Let me explain...
The table states that vegitarians have no claws. I live in Australia. Our vegitarians can certainly have claws. Koalas, Wombats, Kangaroos etc all have claws! I know I've seen film of baboons killing and eating animals. They have hands... I believe chimps do likewise at times. To try to present that table as the proof to substantiate the claim is very misleading. The table is quite simply and wrong which is very easily proved.
And besides, if we weren't meant to eat animals, then why are they made out of yummy meat that cooks so beautifully on my BBQ? EXACTLY! They would be made out of brussel sprouts if I wasn't meant to eat them.

I'm going to mention the same thing I mentioned in another thread (Heaven and Hell). I can't understand this idea of one type of food for another. What I eat I'm supposed to eat right now. The human mind was not meant for warfare yet we try and dominate every species on this planet. We've had world wars and the richest people live with money they do not need (while the poor of the world suffer).

For me to say "I am a meat eater!" and embrace this is wrong of me. To say "I am veg!" and embrace this is wrong of me. Because I do not live on another planet I can't go and say this type of eating is better then the next. I can possibly recommend what is good to eat and what is not (depending on cultural adaptations to food).

When the world finds itself in deep death (ww3) you will find yourself not asking what meat or veggie is good for you but what will help you see the light of another day.

On a moral high point...people who don't eat meat are elevated, but to openly declare moral high grounds is false in the viewpoint of one who can't even decide what they are due to poverty.

To OP:

Your post is circumstantial at best regarding the topic. Half of the things on your list are incorrect. We have canine teeth (sharp teeth) We have claws (Fingernails).....ect...ect


Back during evolution we had to kill animals for survival. I don't think we went around and looked for berries all day. If we were attacked we would kill the animal and eat it for protein.

reply to post by tdubz


To bump the great thread and because that made me smile much in an insane day in this world of ours.

Simple. Stupid. Innocent. Illogical. Profound. Wise. Alan Watts Like!

Regards

Elf

reply to post by mlmijyd


This is from the site you linked to:

"...humans must obtain B12 in the diet, either from animal sources (red meat, fish, poultry, eggs and dairy products) or from fortified plant-based foods. While plants do not naturally contain B12, they may carry some through microbial contamination. "

Meaning that plants do not contain B12. If you buy it in a store, B12 can be added ("Fortified"), so you can obtain it, however unnaturally. If you eat it from your garden, you might get it through contamination from the soil. But plants do not contain vitamin B12 naturally. The site you linked to confirms this, even though it is widely known information.

We are talking about the nature of our bodies, here, not moral obligations. We are not meant to consume only plants. We are omnivores. With modern technology we have the choice to eat only plants, and maintain health. But it is not "Natural", and if you choose only organic (non-fortified foods) vegetarianism, you will be vitamin B12 deficient and very unhealthy.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

And, now, on to the actual topic of the thread.

We have never hunted with our teeth. We have never chased down animals and bit them to catch them. We have either hunted small animals that we catch with our hands, or caught larger with tools that we make. So we have never had a need for true canines, whose purpose are to catch and hold on to prey.

Our intestines are lengthed, relatively, in between those of carnivorous animals, and those of herbivorous animals. This supports the fact that we are naturally omnivorous, we eat whatever we have to to survive.

That is the nature of the human form. The capability to survive and adapt to any change in environment.

This is fact. Nothing you find on the internet will tell you different.




[edit- I didn't realize how far the thread had gotten, but wth]

[edit on 10-8-2008 by Sharker524]

MMMMMM

Chimpanzees and Bonobos (pygmy Chimpanzees) are as closely related genetically as say I am (White European male) to a member of the Pygmy tribe in Africa.

How come Bonobos dont (never never never ever!) eat meat?

Interesting eh?

Bonobo Thread.

Designed to eat meat are we, but a chimpanzee is not?

lol

Regards

Elf


Mind you those Mountain gorillas and silver Backs also do very well on just Vegetables, you would think they would be wasting away!

I challenge all the "you need to eat meat to be strong and healthy and a Man" to go and discuss that face to face and male to male on the Gorillas territory, im sure you could pacify that "weak vegetarian?"

Pathetic spoon fed orally fixated brain washed beliefs.

You like meat for the same reasons as some people are turned on by shoes, or anal fun, its a physically anchored series of repetitive events from your early years that, means soo much to you BIG Strong Man because it replaced the Nipple of Dummy you got your first pleasure from.

Evolve, be honest and think eh?

Kind Regards,

Elf.

[edit on 10-8-2008 by MischeviousElf]

Here's what gets under my skin about this whole topic...and I'm a long time vegetarian or vegan, so I apologise for being so biased...it's immensely important to me.

Put aside the arguement about whether or not we are natural omnivores or vegetarians, and how our closest genetic relatives behave..it's all important and enlightening to read, but here's what bothers me really, and it goes back to a post by Mischieveous Elf, that I can't find now...

Using land to produce crops is WAY more efficient in terms of food production, and calories per acre, if you like. I know there are a lot of emotive issues surrounding heritage and tradition in the farming community, but if we collectively stepped back and really looked at and worked out how much we produce and how much we are short of food, on a GLOBAL scale, then surely common sense would tell us to use what we have in the most efficient way possible.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't produce meat...although I don't like it...I'm saying that we should radically restrict meat production, even if it makes it more expensive to buy. Meat should be a treat, not a large portion of our diet, as some people would have you believe. That meat in excessive quantities is bad for the human body is beyond argument, so let's not go there just now....a whole other discussion.

There are so many people short of even basic food that it might appear selfish to use land for what we want instead of what we need...as a human race. The way economics are heading at the moment means that people are being squeezed financially, and should be encouraged to experiment with growing their own, and rediscovering the art of cooking from scratch...but sadly the junk produced by the likes of McDonalds is one sector of the market that is absolutely booming, expanding in fact, as people on low budgets go for the cheapest alternative, not realising that what they are eating is literally junk, raised in the worst possible way, and by purchasing it, they have strengthened the industrial food production system that will damage us all.

Elf, help me out here hun...I can't find the post you linked to with all the facts and figures...it was a treat to read! Thank you..

Cait

With Much Much Pleasure for such a linguistically skilled Fairie

Some Very Interesting Facts & Figures

I must say as Cait has above, and as I allude to in my opening rant to that post,

IT IS BECOMING A MATTER OF NECESSITY FOR THE HUMAN RACE TO SURVIVE!

The environmental Degradation globally, weather changes, population, etc make this issue actually very very important.

Cait is soo right, the west has grown up on a massively unnatural consumption of huge amount of meat.

Even if you only do it for your communities, and children, the West has to use meat appropriately and not gluten on it.

I’m not saying become a vegetarian/vegan whatever its your choice what you do to your body, your karma, however it now affects me too, your choices as a meat eater!

Many people on this thread have stated that they hate the sort of high and mighty, self rightcious, force down our throat's VegyFascists lol

You are right I totally agree.

However if you are a average western meat eater you are being a hypocrite!

Your actions now are forcing an environment and experience into my life!, literally with the pollution you are TRULY forcing your actions and pollution down my throat!

So having said that, and as your actions affect me an mine, and the world, nature, people, forests, children, the things I love and WILL PROTECT, I have every right to reiterate one thing from my post above, the link

STEP OFF MEAT EATERS!

Your Habit and fix is ruining my neighbourhood, its your problem but your making it mine!

You are addicted to something when it matters more than the effects on others peoples lives,
and your own,
you "need" the thing,
you usually have to pay a lot emotionally or monetarily for it and will never admit its a problem!

If it was crack they would lock you up, think on that.

Kind Regards,

Elf

Originally posted by MischeviousElf
MMMMMM

Chimpanzees and Bonobos (pygmy Chimpanzees) are as closely related genetically as say I am (White European male) to a member of the Pygmy tribe in Africa.

How come Bonobos dont (never never never ever!) eat meat?

Interesting eh?

Bonobo Thread.

Designed to eat meat are we, but a chimpanzee is not?

lol

Regards

Elf

Elf! a most excellent post! thank you for your response it was the exact thing i was going to post. it simply leaves no room or meat eaters to reply so pretty much you have killed this thread..oh well

Conclusive PROOF we were designed to eat meat

Mmmm.. Bambi flavoured.

Shame on you Agent T....beans and rice and lentils for a fortnight for you!!

(Please don't mention Bambi again....it REALLY upsets me....)

Cait

> True carnivores (and omnivores) salivate about the
> idea of eating whole prey animals when they see them.
> Humans do not. We're interested in eating the body parts
> only because they've been removed from the original animal
> and processed,

Maybe Americans but have you ever been to the markets in Europe, Asia, the Middle East, and Africa? They have the full animals there, with their heads and tails, etc.

depending on where your ancestory comes from your body has adapeted to braking down sertain "foods" better then others.

eating vegetarian(including fish) food for a while in your life will surely prolong your life by a couple of year,
heck its even healthy to not eat food for a period of your life.

it still mostly boils down to what you can digest , the better you digest , the better you poo and your body gets its nutrients and the "cloaka maxima" clean.

depriving your body from neutrients is your choise souly but remember if your not running fully you affect the rest of us.

you can fully digest meat if you are built for it,
most herbivores digest their "veggies" severaltimes,
some even eat their poo because thats where the nutrients are cause their tummy dont absorb the nutrients.

id like the OP to ponder about inuits and aborigines and all other who live of the land ,

Originally posted by zerbot565

id like the OP to ponder about inuits and aborigines and all other who live of the land ,

Ok,...*pondering*....
First the aborigines, they are savages that eat whatever they can get their hands on..be it bugs, plants, roots, or small game. so what? they should be eating veggies period.

Second the inuits, they migrated to those lands a long time ago and became landlocked when it froze over, they had to beign eating whale blubber and baby seals to survive. this just means that they don't belong up there and should move to a warmer climate where veggies will grow. what was I pondering for again?

reply to post by Fathom


you seam to foget that most modern veggies we have are a later form of their original self, and have only been around a couple of hundred years by breeding,

these that you call savages are the ones acturly eating what we as humans can digest,

roots nuts fish meat herbs, and in some cultures difrent kinds of wheats

the only two veggies i can think of that are some what in their old form is corn and potatoes ,
good tummy filling but not that nutrient.

, ill still stick to the fact that most herbivores eat their own poo inorder to get the nurisments

Originally posted by Fathom

Originally posted by zerbot565

id like the OP to ponder about inuits and aborigines and all other who live of the land ,

Ok,...*pondering*....
First the aborigines, they are savages that eat whatever they can get their hands on..be it bugs, plants, roots, or small game. so what? they should be eating veggies period.

Second the inuits, they migrated to those lands a long time ago and became landlocked when it froze over, they had to beign eating whale blubber and baby seals to survive. this just means that they don't belong up there and should move to a warmer climate where veggies will grow. what was I pondering for again?

Aborigines are savages are they? Sounds like you must have done some extensive research into what an Aboriginal is like huh? National Geographic must have had a show about them recently I see.

Now take it from someone who has a slight idea about that subject.
These 'savages' as you so ignorantly put, managed to live off the land for at least 50,000 years, maybe even 80,000 years. That would make them the oldest civilisation on the planet. Pretty impressive for a savage. So for 50,000 years they actually managed to live within this harsh environment and not run out of any of the resources they needed. Again, amazing for a savage.

Seriously, you should actually look into it, you might be surprised at how clever they were. Might even learn something, you'll have to pull your head from your arse first though.

reply to post by Chadwickus

sorry didn't mean to insult. by "savages" i meant uncivilized, cooking in a hole in the dirt, no utensils...yadda yadda.
gee, you would think after 80, 000 years they would have figured out how to use a fork hu?

Originally posted by Fathom
reply to post by Chadwickus

gee, you would think after 80, 000 years they would have figured out how to use a fork hu?

Not if they were not into anything material beyond survival. Maybe they were on a higher plain spiritually until they ran into us white people.

I would say the holocaust was savage. So was nuking Japan twice. All in the eYe of the beholder.

Originally posted by Fathom
reply to post by Chadwickus

 

gee, you would think after 80, 000 years they would have figured out how to use a fork hu?

Ah but you see, to an Aborigine a fork is useless. If they didn't need it they didn't make it and they made a lot of things

Article

Hooks were made of the inside of a shell resembling 'mother of pearl'. This was broken into a ring two or three centimeters in diameter, then ground with a coarse file into a crescent shape, sharpened at one end and often notched at the other to attach the line. The shiny inside of the shell acted as a lure, in addition to the ground bait of chewed shellfish which was spat into the water to attract fish. Other hooks used by women included those made of wood, bone or bird claws and were probably baited.

Now, back on topic, how do you think aborigines lasted so long if they were only meant to eat fruit and vegetables? Again, 50,000 years on a balanced diet of meat and fruit/vege (meaning roots, berries etc.) with no ill effect on their health. That is, until the white settlers came...but thats another story.