We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat, Here Is Proof

reply to post by Anti-Tyrant


Oh right ok yep np we both did wrong i have no issue with that. will be interesting to see your counter points to what i said above. Go for it

The problem here is some of you are both right.

1) Humans are Omnivores there is no getting around it.
2) It used to be we hunted meat to eat. Only recently has it been an over indulgence.
3) Many studies suggest, we may not have even evolved if we didnt start eating more meat. There are 2 groups on this and a great paper on it. www.news.harvard.edu...

4) But because we eat meat, and We are supposed to eat meat. does not mean we have to be cruel. I do go out of my way to eat free range animals, I do not eat veal etc.. because while it may taste good, there is no reason to torment the animals before hand. Eating meat for necessity what humans do by nature, being cruel to animals is something I hope we are evolving from.

But this thread is bunk, because it is not true. The proof posted is false because of the left out category humans fall into. So this so called proof is false. Do some research and you will find out yourself.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I would, but i see no reason to.

Is there a reason for your antagonistic manner towards me?

Besides, there really is no way we can prove whether one of us is right or wrong, we have to rely on an argument of reason and logic to see this through.

Unless of course, you can provide some sort of source for your argument?

reply to post by ShiftTrio

Thanks for your sensible input. If I knew you in IRL, like most of my omnivorous mates, I would get along without ever needing to bring up the subject - secure in the knowledge that you have evolved enough ethics to understand the intrinsic difference between survival and inhumane cruelty. Alas, I'm sure people will attack and misrepresent me for even this consensus.

reply to post by Danger Girl


Danger Girl,

I agree completely.

Naturally earth has selected what foods we are supposed eat,

grains, fruits nothing with blood and flesh because that is other life and we should respect it and let it live.

We have evolved in a different way than we should in error because of eating other animals I believe.

There are those out there who I'm sure disagree but humans tend to think they are at the top of the food chain and can do anything they wish with all other life on planet earth.

Unfortunately they are far from the truth, we should respect all other life. What if there is something out there much greater and smarter than us that is eating us and we don't even know it? Not us but our babies and those babies are not taken from us directly but from all those people who seem to disappear in the world every year.

Extraterrestrials that are hungry for human flesh and blood.

Just a scenario and could be happening,
Now how do we feel about them eating us, we are eating other less evolved lifeforms and animals with no problem.

In fact we slaughter them, could we in fact be cattle to other lifeforms in the universe?

I think we are like the bottled water is EVIAN. (Naive)

Grains, fruits all things that come naturally on earth are truly what we were designed to eat and if we did this it would change the world.
Animals would change as well from us stopping to eat them.

THINK
good post!

Originally posted by azblack
reply to post by Cythraul

 

It may seem ridiculous to you who claims to question everything, but are you completely postive trees and plants don't feel anything. I know it's scientificly accepted as such but because they don't express pain or more directly don't move, I've thought many times with axe in hand, what if they could feel it? It's just thought and valid arguement to those who question everything truly, They are undeniably living organisms that's a good enough arguement for me!

I didn't say plants don't feel anything. I said they're not sentient beings. I learnt long ago never to claim "plants don't have feelings" because some smart anti-vegetarian always likes to come along with the old "but scientists say plants DO feel pain" argument. The interpretation of pain is defined by the senses. When a chicken is electrocuted on a production line it feels, sees and hears the whole horrible experience. Pain might be universal, but suffering is exclusive to sentient beings.

As for land use and the environment, well:
- It takes more than 2,400 gallons of water to produce 1 pound of cow flesh, whereas it takes about 180 gallons of water to make 1 pound of whole wheat flour.
- It takes fifteen times as much land to produce food for a meat eater than it does to produce food for a vegan.

reply to post by Bachelor


"the life of a fish is no less important than my own... "

Bachelor,

I agree, all life is equal no matter how you look at it and should be treated as such.

Humans are but ants to much higher evolved beings in the universe.

How would we like to be stepped on every now and then?

Just A Thought!

Here's one of my favorite Penn & Teller Bull$#itt episodes.
Some of their episodes I don't agree with. But this one has good points and is valid in our discussions.

Also in the end there's a trait that I see in EVERY and ALL vegetarians/animal lovers brought forward by P&T that I mentioned in my previous posts.

It's HYPOCRISY.










[edit on 19-6-2008 by Macrotus]

I'm absolutely stunned that Macrotus hasn't been cautioned by mods. Post after post of uncourteous, rude, pointless contributions. For that reason I won't be addressing him personally in this thread. He obviously has a personal gripe with vegetarians - maybe an ex-girlfriend who dumped him was one - and continues to (unsuccessfully) attempt to belittle anyone who made a different lifestyle choice to him. I have no problem with meat-eaters who address me courteously, and usually enjoy discussing the whole issue with them.

reply to post by Macrotus


Did I hear that correctly Macarontus

"Vegetarians, you are ALL hypocrites!"

Judge not lest ye be judged!

reply to post by Cythraul

He is right though. I am somewhat of a hypocrite, because the higher the standards you set for yourself, the easier it is to fall short and be a hypocrite. Not many meat eaters readily understand or appreciate the daily sacrifices vegos make striving to live up to our own ideals. So actually I agree with macrothingie on that point, though definitely not in the sense or spirit he intended.

Originally posted by Cythraul
I'm absolutely stunned that Macrotus hasn't been cautioned by mods. Post after post of uncourteous, rude, pointless contributions. For that reason I won't be addressing him personally in this thread. He obviously has a personal gripe with vegetarians - maybe an ex-girlfriend who dumped him was one - and continues to (unsuccessfully) attempt to belittle anyone who made a different lifestyle choice to him. I have no problem with meat-eaters who address me courteously, and usually enjoy discussing the whole issue with them.

Chillax, bro. I'm just stating my opinion. Which is the hypocrisy that vegetarians try to force their views down on everyone's throat, in our daily lives and even in the Internet. I've mentioned this many times what this hypocrisy in my previous posts and many other omnivores also mentioned the same points.

The reason anyone hasn't noticed is because they are too hypocrite to listen to reason.

You want to talk about belittling? Read all the posts by the veggies of how vile, disgusting and evil us omnivores are, just for being what we have evolved into.

"He obviously has a personal gripe with vegetarians - maybe an ex-girlfriend who dumped him was one "

Eh, eh. I already have a girlfriend. She's a real woman. The one that eat balanced diet, have adequate muscles and a little bit of fat. Not like the pale-anorexic-gas-expelling-stick-insect with a chest of a 13 year old boy. And she feels good everytime I compare her to those stick-insects.

Okay let's go back to vegetariansm, and their futile attempts to turn around how this world works.

[edit on 19-6-2008 by Macrotus]

reply to post by Macrotus


Crotus,

"Which is the hypocrisy that vegetarians try to force their views down on everyone's throat, in our daily lives and even in the Internet."

You sicko meat eater you! lol

reply to post by Macrotus

Well congratulations, you've lured me into debate, if only to correct your ridiculous presumption that vegans are physically weak. Look back earlier in the thread and see me talking about how I've packed on a lot of size and muscle since going vegan. I'm bigger and stronger than the average meat-eating guy. My girlfriend, who is also vegan, has an extremely healthy figure, and all in all we're very healthy.

Now, what's with this obsession over the word "hypocricy"? One single thread where a few vegetarians back up their lifestyle choice vs an entire world that's geared towards eating meat. Aw poor you... it must be really difficult remaining a meat-eater. The world really doesn't make it easy on you does it.

The underdog will always shout loud when it has a platform. For a couple of days, we vegetarians have had a platform, shouted from it, and been immediately shot down by the many, many more meat-eaters in the thread. If a few opinionated vegetarians get to you enough to have you screaming "hypocricy" then I hate to think what kind of self-consciousness issues you have.

And Shar_Chi you're very right. We do set ourselves up for the greatest of falls. When you make an unorthadox decision in life, you'll attract critics, critics who will seek any way possible to prove that your unorthadox decision was wrong.

Originally posted by Cythraul

Well congratulations, you've lured me into debate, if only to correct your ridiculous presumption that vegans are physically weak. Look back earlier in the thread and see me talking about how I've packed on a lot of size and muscle since going vegan. I'm bigger and stronger than the average meat-eating guy. My girlfriend, who is also vegan, has an extremely healthy figure, and all in all we're very healthy.

I would like to point out something here, as i keep having to do. As far as i'm aware (and i admit i'm as ignorant as the next person) no one has won the Mr.Universe or Worlds Strongest Man, competitions if they're vegan or vegetarian. The body can only do so much without meat. You are my friend a rare case and i will put it down to genetics. Most people who are vegans and vegetarians will not achieve your size without meat or heavy supplementation.

Originally posted by Cythraul
Now, what's with this obsession over the word "hypocricy"? One single thread where a few vegetarians back up their lifestyle choice vs an entire world that's geared towards eating meat. Aw poor you... it must be really difficult remaining a meat-eater. The world really doesn't make it easy on you does it.

See now why are you using the condescending tone? You have a go at him for lacking curteosy and then you do the same! I admit he's not been great, and as you can read above i'm not exactly on his side with the way he's treating people, but shouldn't you rise above it?

Originally posted by Cythraul
The underdog will always shout loud when it has a platform. For a couple of days, we vegetarians have had a platform, shouted from it, and been immediately shot down by the many, many more meat-eaters in the thread. If a few opinionated vegetarians get to you enough to have you screaming "hypocricy" then I hate to think what kind of self-consciousness issues you have.

I think he screams hypocrisy because so many vegetarians are, however i am not calling you a hypocrit simply because at the moment it's not furthering the discussion. Meat eaters like myself have provided our evidence, you've provided yours, my greatest hope is that we can agree to disagree peacefully. I've ranted and raved but only when someone has shown utter ignorance of the facts. Chosing whether to eat meat or not is not about ignorance, it's merely a choice like having sex before marriage.

Originally posted by Cythraul
And Shar_Chi you're very right. We do set ourselves up for the greatest of falls. When you make an unorthadox decision in life, you'll attract critics, critics who will seek any way possible to prove that your unorthadox decision was wrong.

I'm not trying to prove anything is wrong! However i do get annoyed when you state thigns like you did above about your size. You are as i said the rare case, most vegans and vegetarians will never reach your size even if they try. As stated above, the competition winners are meat eaters

However for other sports i think veganism can work prefectly fine, marathon runners for example will excel ona vegetarian or vegan diet. They need high carbohydrate, medium protein and enough fat to sustain long distance running. They can get that fat from coconut or even dosing themselves on carbohydrate so it saves itself as fat in the body.

When it comes to life expectancy, well no good studies have been done. Meat eaters also tend to be bigger drinkers and smokers, vegans and vegetarians at least in my experience tend to drink less, exercise more and don't smoke as a rule.

I think we can all agree however that red meat is a bad thing if overused. Personnaly i rarely eat it more than once a month, the rest of the time i eat meats that are virtually devoid of cholesterol and as i stated earlier in the thread, my cholesterol level at last test was near zero. The result actually shocked the doctor it was so low. Meat isn't always bad, it's how much you eat that is bad.

reply to post by Macrotus


I havn't liked any of your replies really, they're offensive, quite ignorant and show no logic. However i do love that Penn and Teller episode. Not because it has a go at vegetarians, but becuase it exposes the utter lies and hypocrisy of PETA. However don't confuse PETA with vegans and vegetarians, they're not all like that.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
my greatest hope is that we can agree to disagree peacefully. I've ranted and raved but only when someone has shown utter ignorance of the facts. Chosing whether to eat meat or not is not about ignorance, it's merely a choice like having sex before marriage.

I concur, and like with every single one of my good friends (except my girlfriend) I will happily respect a meat-eater's decision to eat meat as long as they respect my decision not to. The defenses go up because, in my experience, meat-eaters often tend to get personal very quickly with the whole "you must be some kind of homosexual weakling" mentality.

Regarding my size, I truly believe anyone could achieve it. I don't believe I have good genetics. In fact, there are certain aspects of my body which make bodybuilding very difficult. But I've been doing it, consistently for a number of years and I push myself hard. Like I said, skip on over to www.veganfitness.net and you'll come across some photos of very big vegan guys. One of which can be seen in the following animation:

This is my fist post here on ATS. I frequent the site regularly and wanted to share my insight. I am a 27yr old male who switched to a vegetarian diet four years ago after I realized that my spiritual affection for animals did not agree with eating them. I could state many facts about the benifits (I encourage everyone to research this topic before posting so you dont sound like idiots like the "fish eating" vegetarian) of not eating meat such as reduced cardiovascular disease, colon cancer, arterisclerosis... but here is my debate.

We as human beings are unquestionably (in my belief) the most intellegent insightful creatures on this earth, capable of compounding our intellectual understanding of humanity and existance with each thought process. With that said, we understand that animals share many of the same physical and neurological aspects as humans, such as eyes, skin, hair, central nervous systems.. the very being of their creation is under the same model as our own. We (as humans) understand that the very life energy that runs through our bodies that we have yet to understand as a species also runs through all animals. There are obvious objects that were placed on earth by our creator for us to consume. Example: the apple. An apple has a particular shape, color, scent, taste..etc that attracts human curiosity to it. We can see the bright color, smell the light scent, and taste an object that can be eaten without manipulation with fire or heat and understand that it is for our consumption. When we eat that apple, it gifts us many new seeds to plant, where each seed grows a new tree which can grow many times the number of apples to replace itself. 1 apple = an endless amount of apples. Animals on the other hand, without manipulation such as cutting, fire.. etc are in no way desireable to the human species digestive senses and without proper preparation would only contribute to disease and death. You wouldnt look at a cow, smell it and even know to eat it unless you were taught how. It takes two "parent" animals to produce one new animal. If you owned two cows and were forced by famine to eat one, you would never have another cow and would evetually die of starvation.

Since this is going on forever i will end it here. I could state many more facts and opinions. As a vegetarian you can get B12 without eating meat. When you eat meat you are ingesting a whole protien that is already decomposing before it attaches to your body, whereas a combining vegetable protien with a carbohydrates forces the body to develop a new healthy protien in the body..

I encourage everyone to really put some thought process into this debate. Then come at me with your weapons. Maybe you can convince me to eat delicious meat again.. which in my beleifs is the forbiddin fruit fortold in the bible, Peace.

"True carnivores (and omnivores) salivate about the idea of eating whole prey animals when they see them. Humans do not."
I do... I have a wicked prey drive, this is only an assumption. Eat the weak, it's natural selection >.>

reply to post by Cythraul


And Shar_Chi you're very right. We do set ourselves up for the greatest of falls. When. you make an unorthadox decision in life, you'll attract critics, critics who will seek any way possible to prove that your unorthadox decision was wrong.


SOOOOO true!

Just look how they treated that guy who said the earth was round.....oh, and that other guy who said the universe didn't revolve around us.....and look at the way people freak out if you want to quit drinking etc, etc, etc.....I just don't understand the supression of others trying to better themselves......odd really.

Originally posted by Cythraul

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
my greatest hope is that we can agree to disagree peacefully. I've ranted and raved but only when someone has shown utter ignorance of the facts. Chosing whether to eat meat or not is not about ignorance, it's merely a choice like having sex before marriage.

I concur, and like with every single one of my good friends (except my girlfriend) I will happily respect a meat-eater's decision to eat meat as long as they respect my decision not to. The defenses go up because, in my experience, meat-eaters often tend to get personal very quickly with the whole "you must be some kind of homosexual weakling" mentality.

Regarding my size, I truly believe anyone could achieve it. I don't believe I have good genetics. In fact, there are certain aspects of my body which make bodybuilding very difficult. But I've been doing it, consistently for a number of years and I push myself hard. Like I said, skip on over to www.veganfitness.net and you'll come across some photos of very big vegan guys. One of which can be seen in the following animation:

I took a look at the site but didn't see any bodybuilders of notable size. Could you post the photos or links to the photos? I have a great deal of experience with training bodybuilders including vegans. Vegans do have a huge disadvantage due to the lack of necessary complete proteins, minerals, etc... I've never seen a big vegan bodybuilder unless of course they were taking steroids, growth hormone, insulin, IGF-1 ,etc...

For example, I had one client who had great genetics but couldn't gain size. I asked him to include red meat, chicken and fish in his diet. After 6 months of this, his body weight increased by 40 lbs and his body fat decreased by 2%. He went from looking like a weekend weightlifter to a bodybuilder who could compete in amateur competitions.