We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat, Here Is Proof

reply to post by Danger Girl


MMMMMMMMMMmmm................ BACON
MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM..... Steak
MMMMMMMMMMMMMM................ Suasage.

If they weren't supposed to be eaten....then why in the hell do they taste so good????????????????????????????????

Yes, I agree we are not carnivores. But your comparison is very selective - quite bias. If you add "Omnivore" to that chart you will see that we fit quite nicely in that definition. Crows are omnivores and have no sharp teeth, in fact they don't have teeth at all, on the other hand bears have sharp teeth, but they don't exclusively eat meat... By your chart a bear would be a carnivore... They are actually omnivores. I could continue, but I think you get the picture. We are all slaves to Evolution.

As for going vegetarian, I think that is definitely a healthy way to go. But arguing human design as a reason is a losing battle.

Jonathan Doe

Originally posted by Gorman91
what I don't understand is that many of those suppliments are probably meat extract.

Also, if the body builders used steroids, they'd be dead by 40-50ish. Not all do.

You should check out some of the body builders from the 1950s, because they dont obtain even close to the muscle mass of todays body builders. It has to do with supplements and illegal/legal substances that un-naturally create muscle mass. Its not as though the body builders of the past didnt have the motivation or access to the heaviest weights. Some of the lifting techniques have changed but supplements and substances have more to do with the appearance of modern body builders.

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
Why are you continuing to challenge me on the OP statement. The OP, left out key info about omnivores. I have stated several times i feel that humans evolved as omnivores, if not only because humans were very resourceful. I'm not arguing that humans were/are omnivores. Again humans are omnivores, i'm not arguing with you.

Stop stop stop i know you said that and i accepted it a few posts back. I was commenting on other vegetarians and vegans not you. Have an organic sprout on me!

My God, you people. If we really arent supposed to eat meat, regardless of any arguement, surely the body would reject it. But it doesnt.

Annoyed Irishman

God wouldn't have make meat if meat is not for eat... hehehe

Kun

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Creatine is safe in the doses that one would receive while eating meat but supplementation of creatine is not without dangers. In high doses it can take a negative toll on the kidneys.


I can agree that even with out supplements and steroids, etc. The vegan/vegetarian would probably not be able to obtain the muscle mass of the meat eating body builder. But much of this comes from the fact that meat is very calorie and protein dense. To obtain an equivilent amount of protein and calories, the vegetarian/vegan has to consume a much larger quantity(actual weight) of food. Thus they are at a significant disadvantage.


Although harder to obtain, b12 can be obtained from soil. I'm not arguing that humans did not evolve as ominvores, but evolving humans would have got all the B12 they needed from the soil and water that they drank. Again, i'm not arguing that humans werent omnivores. They were but it has more to do with just getting enough calories overall as opposed to being deficient in one vitamin. If i was living in the woods off of whatever i could find or kill, B12 would not be my concern but obtain enough calories to make it all day would.

I'm not blaming the early diet of man for the life expectancy. There are many other factors involved in life expectancy. Disease, infection, animal attack, etc. I will try to clarify my point: It seems we both can agree that eating huge amounts of meat can be unhealthy. With that said, if we all ate meat everyday allday but because of animal attacks, disease, infection, lack of medical care, no one lived passed 30 years old. Then no one would live long enough to see the negative effects of eating meat all day everyday. I'm not saying their diet killed them, only that they never lived long enough( due to other circumstances) to see some of the negative side effects from eating too much meat.

Like i said you have been very respectful, in not forcing your view of eating meat. But i will say that it definitely goes both ways. I get a lot of flack for the way i eat. And people push meat and dairy on me and feel as though i am weird because i dont eat dairy. But i agree it goes both ways there are vegans/veggies that push an agenda on others but the same goes for meat eaters.
But i will say that the vast majority of westerners are meat eaters and that is the status quo. The meat and dairy industries are huge and they have a lot of representation in our govts. They push an agenda on people to make money. Not saying you dont see the same from anti-meat institutes but they are hardly the norm or status quo and they are without a doubt in the minority.

I think many vegans/veggies are defensive because they are harrased very often and regularly, from the majority.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by iamcamouflage
Why are you continuing to challenge me on the OP statement. The OP, left out key info about omnivores. I have stated several times i feel that humans evolved as omnivores, if not only because humans were very resourceful. I'm not arguing that humans were/are omnivores. Again humans are omnivores, i'm not arguing with you.

Stop stop stop i know you said that and i accepted it a few posts back. I was commenting on other vegetarians and vegans not you. Have an organic sprout on me!

Sorry, delayed read and post.

No beef between us. (pun intended.)

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by Horza

 

Yep again people don't read the thread title or original post, it's not anything to do with ethics, it's to do with science. Not whether we should eat meat but if we're designed to eat meat.

Hi there IR ... I just want to check ... are you saying here that I wasn't addressing the the OP's original statement?

Here is a paraphrased section of my original post:

Humans are omnivores.

Humans do not need red meat for a balanced diet.

Humans can get all the B12 they need from diary products and eggs.
...

... My motto on what I eat is:

Eat locally grown and produced food where ever possible. Eat organic and free range where ever possible. Eat produce made using sustainable methods where ever possible. Enjoy making everything you eat, enjoy eating everything that you make and make thanks for everything you eat.

Yes I did get ethical at the end of my post ... but I wanted to have a rant ... no problems in that ... especially as at the very beginning of my post I answered the OP's question directly.

Again:

Humans are omnivores - To spell that out for you, that means that we do and therefore are able to and therefore our systems have evolved specifically to allow for the digestion of meat.

That answers the OP's statement directly.

Humans just eat to much meat. This is why we have, as some people have said, we have significant amounts of undigested meat in our systems.

How many out there know about the Mediterranean diet?

There is significant research that this is one of the healthiest diet a human can have and has many benefits such as reducing the risks of cancer, heart disease and increasing life expectancy.

And ... Isn't one of the main criticisms of a vegetarian diet that it is boring and tasteless?

Well, a Mediterranean diet is interesting and delicious ... and you can have a glass of wine or two with it ... Beer is good too

Here is some info:

en.wikipedia.org...

This also supports the argument that humans are omnivores and are "designed" to eat meat.

Originally posted by Danger Girl
The reason that most people have approximately ten pounds of putrid, undigested, red meat in their guts is because our intestines are designed to process meat.

Hi Danger Girl. Could you please provide a citation to a respected medical journal that backs up that statement? As far as i know (from taking Human Anatomy and Phys in college and researching it again via Google), this is an urban legend. I think this story is spread by people trying to scare others into eating more healthy foods or to drum up business for colon cleansing services.

I'm a Vegetarian. It's simply a lifestyle choice. Over time I became repulsed by meat, so I made a personal choice to remove it from my diet. Incidentally, both of my brothers have independantly made similar choices (one being a Pescatarian). I'd like to point out that I have never and will never impress my choices upon anyone else.

I would have thought that is was plainly obvious that we are omnivorous, I would not be able to maintain my health without foods designed to suppliment my lack of meat. Certainly, should I be forced to 'survive' in the [British] countryside, I would die from malnutrition.

I'll cross that bridge if I come to it.

- Pete

When I wake up hungry as hell, I'm not exactly craving broccoli or carrots, I'm craving meat.

Originally posted by Horza
Hi there IR ... I just want to check ... are you saying here that I wasn't addressing the the OP's original statement?

Here is a paraphrased section of my original post:

It's very possible in my haste to reply i've quoted the wrong person, can you direct me to where that post of mine is, i've been over 8 pages and not found it yet, would be grateful if you could tell me which page it's on so i could check it and see if i just made a mistake quoting the wrong post.

Originally posted by Horza
Humans are omnivores - To spell that out for you, that means that we do and therefore are able to and therefore our systems have evolved specifically to allow for the digestion of meat.

That answers the OP's statement directly.

Yes it does, as i said i think i clicked the wrong person to reply to, simple mistake, i do read each persons posts honestly

Originally posted by Horza
Humans just eat to much meat. This is why we have, as some people have said, we have significant amounts of undigested meat in our systems.

I'm afraid that's a myth, the commonly bought up examples are John Wayne and Elvis Presley. If you read the reports of these two individuals you will find that Elvis was constipated upon autopsy due to drugs, not his diet.

About 10 pages back someone linked a good article on that, including an Israeli man with constipation who had to be operated on due to extreme pain, very little was removed from his gut after a few days. If you had significant amounts of meat undigested in your gut then you'd be in excruciating pain. The colon does not have pockets and folds where food lodges itself, lets get rid of that myth now please. The comvulsive movements of the intestines (peristalsis) means they are kept quite clear. Go without food for a few days and you'll be empty, that's unless you have some kind of medical condition.

Originally posted by Horza
How many out there know about the Mediterranean diet?

There is significant research that this is one of the healthiest diet a human can have and has many benefits such as reducing the risks of cancer, heart disease and increasing life expectancy.

And ... Isn't one of the main criticisms of a vegetarian diet that it is boring and tasteless?

Well, a Mediterranean diet is interesting and delicious ... and you can have a glass of wine or two with it ... Beer is good too

Well you could also view some of the western european diets in the same light. The French are such a clear example, massively varied diet, plenty of sea food, resonable amounts of meat, tons of wine and the gits live longer than everyone. Damn them to hell! My diet is quite similar to that, minus the high levels of alcohol.

I would never call the vegetarian diet boring and tasteless, i love fruits, veg, pulses, nuts and seeds myself. Actually one of my favorite things is chick pea burgers lol.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Did you read the link? My guess is no. Many grains and cereals we eat didn't even exist 5000 years ago, and most don't date much further back than 12000 years. What vegans are trying to say is that meat eating is some sort of recent developement.
WRONG!
We evolved to eat as generalists. That means we evolved to eat anything that wasn't toxic. Here's another link, maybe you'll look at it. I doubt though because it doesn't support your argument.
www.naturalhub.com...

Typical of any fanatic is to acknowledge only that which is useful and ignore or demonize that which is not.

ugh...
How bout we all agree to disagree.
The plant eater can go enjoy and carrot.
and the meat eaters can have a nice juicy slice of beef.

ok now. step away from the topic. And lets not talk about this ever again.

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat
Did you read the link? My guess is no. Many grains and cereals we eat didn't even exist 5000 years ago, and most don't date much further back than 12000 years. What vegans are trying to say is that meat eating is some sort of recent developement.
WRONG!
We evolved to eat as generalists. That means we evolved to eat anything that wasn't toxic. Here's another link, maybe you'll look at it. I doubt though because it doesn't support your argument.
www.naturalhub.com...

Typical of any fanatic is to acknowledge only that which is useful and ignore or demonize that which is not.

Yep i read it, what exactly do you think my arguement is? Just to clarify because you have confused me. This i why you've confused me.

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat
What vegans are trying to say is that meat eating is some sort of recent developement.
WRONG!

Firstly, not all vegans think that, secondly i was trying to point that out earlier. So you and i agree and yet you're saying i'm a fanatic not wanting to hear counter arguements? Ok please you are going to have to clarify your position and i'll do my best to address it. Because at the moment i'm spinning round not quite sure what your arguement is. Thanks.

Originally posted by grey580
ugh...
How bout we all agree to disagree.
The plant eater can go enjoy and carrot.
and the meat eaters can have a nice juicy slice of beef.

ok now. step away from the topic. And lets not talk about this ever again.

That's what i've been saying all along lol, eating meat or being vegan, either is fine by me as long as no one pushes their belief on me. In turn i won't push my belief on them.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


My mistake. After reading a couple of your other posts I became confused as well. You aren't advocating the removal of meat from the diet.
Your problem with my statement is that Vegans are becoming stupid from the lack of meat, if I assume correctly. That and a percieved weakness from not eating properly, correct?

reply to post by morthn1waytoskinacat


That's ok anyone can make a mistake, i made one shortly before yours.

Yes those were two of my problems with what you said, also the overall tone in which it was put was aggressive and offensive and i just felt it didn't do the discussion any good. Also calling me a fanatic merely because i criticised one area of your posts and then reacting to it in such an angry manor, sort of shows you're very fanatical about this issue.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Anyone who has studied human physiology, physical anthropology, or medicine would (should) know about the primary problem with cutting out all animal products: B12 deficiency. I know, I know; many vegans etc. claim that they can get B12 from soy products. This is NOT TRUE: the "B12" that shows up in vegetable protein is an ANALOGUE of B12, so it has a similar structure and "looks like" B12. But since it is an analogue only, the body cannot synthesize this amino acid into the proteins that require B12 as a constituent. Unfortunately, those who are vegans often say they don't feel unhealthy, and don't display symptoms of B12 deficiency (which affects the nervous system) But you should know that FOLIC ACID, which vegans get plenty of because they eat lots of fruits and veggies, MASKS B12 DEFICIENCY. So therefore people who don't get the B12 but get the folic acid end up getting sick much later in life because the early symptoms were masked. So please: if you are vegan/veggie, please try to find a source of B12 from, say, eggs (eggs are not fertilized so you're not killing baby chickens; if you get organic, you don't have to worry about battery cages) I think that B12 might be synthesized by yeasts and/or certain bacteria, and you may want to research these because maybe they can be a non-animal source -- but make sure the B12 they have is NOT an analogue, or there's no point!

Hope everyone stays healthy!