We Weren't Designed To Eat Meat, Here Is Proof

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Yes, I am. There is nothing that pisses me off more than someone vainly trying to convince everyone else that what they are doing is wrong using arguments that are utter trash. Vegans are high on that list. If you don't want to eat meat, fine, starve to death for all I care. Don't try to dissuade me from the practice, by showing me graphic videos of a slauterhouse and giving me shameful looks like I am facilitating murder. I grew up on a beef farm and hunted for many years before moving to the wonderful "civilised" city. There is no disconnect for me. I am well aware of the process of butchery from bullet to table as it were. I agree most people wouldn't eat meat if they had to participate in the process. Maybe that is a good thing. More for me and the rest of my animal murdering kind. Perhaps the price of meat would fall, and I wouldn't have to pay such outrageous prices for free range meat, because some pseudo hippy nutritionist deems it trendy.
Stop everyone from eating meat. Not bloody likely. If it happens, my guess is canabalism will make a roaring comeback (another inconvenient truth about our omnivourous background). In that case, vegans beware. Most victims of meateaters are........PLANTEATERS.

Full disclosure, I am a meat eater, that being said the op asked 3 questions and for some reason they have not been answered, I dunno the answer myself but I am interested in the answers.

So why do we eat meat?
When did we start doing it and why?
Will we be healthier if we stop?

And I am sure he is also.

All I can say Is cows are FOOD So take a Bite seriously
go ahead take a bite and if that cow tries to run away
I'm chasing it till it gets tired and I'm going to trying to bite it again.
If that cow tries to bite me back I'm going to bite HARDER !!!

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat

Yes, I am. There is nothing that pisses me off more than someone vainly trying to convince everyone else that what they are doing is wrong using arguments that are utter trash. Vegans are high on that list. If you don't want to eat meat, fine, starve to death for all I care.

Ok see this is my issue with your responses, agression isn't a good way to debate. Secondly there is no evidence that being vegan reduces your intelligence as you suggested in your last post. You are acting out of emotion, forgetting logic and just giving any vegan here to point at all the sensible meat eaters and proclaim "see they're all nuts and evil".

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat
Don't try to dissuade me from the practice, by showing me graphic videos of a slauterhouse and giving me shameful looks like I am facilitating murder. I grew up on a beef farm and hunted for many years before moving to the wonderful "civilised" city. There is no disconnect for me. I am well aware of the process of butchery from bullet to table as it were. I agree most people wouldn't eat meat if they had to participate in the process. Maybe that is a good thing. More for me and the rest of my animal murdering kind. Perhaps the price of meat would fall, and I wouldn't have to pay such outrageous prices for free range meat, because some pseudo hippy nutritionist deems it trendy.

Again you just sound like an angry, aggressive and forgive me, ignorant person, i don't mean to be offensive i am sorry but you have started a decent arguement then ruined it. I agree that vegans shouldn't be pushing their beliefs, but neither should meat eaters. I like you have hunted, killed and butchered animals, there is no disconnect for me but i don't feel the need to go of on one against all vegans and vegetarians. They have their way of doing things and i have mine, maybe if we could get along it would be better.

Whats interesting is that the vegetarians i have known always tried to push their believes on anyone available, and vegans are even worse. They often call people immoral, sick, cruel etc just because they eat meat. It seems unjustified to me.

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat
Stop everyone from eating meat. Not bloody likely. If it happens, my guess is canabalism will make a roaring comeback (another inconvenient truth about our omnivourous background). In that case, vegans beware. Most victims of meateaters are........PLANTEATERS.

Absolutely rediculous rant, uncalled for, pointless and hardly helping a sensible discussion. Reign it in, discuss it respectfully and maybe we'll all be able to agree that we should just let each other have our own ways of living.

Btw i've given up on the original topic, seems there is no chance keeping it to that lol, oh well.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


I'm not sure you read my whole post, or read it clearly. I didn't mention anything at all about morals.

I stated clearly and repeatedly we evolved to have a choice, the choice to eat what we want, and if some of us choose to eat meat then the vegans should back off and let us.

In fact, your response to my post leads me to believe that you think I'm one of the vegans telling you what to eat. If that's the case, you need to re-read it.

Originally posted by Orlan Zvezda
Full disclosure, I am a meat eater, that being said the op asked 3 questions and for some reason they have not been answered, I dunno the answer myself but I am interested in the answers.

So why do we eat meat?

Are you asking that in evolution terms or modern terms? In evolution terms we probably started eating meat out of sheer aggression, like when chimp go on a blood hunt and rip another primate apart. As this happened more the chimps who ate the most became bigger, it's possible they learnt to associate meat with strength, vitality and being the leader of the pack.

In modern terms we eat meat for the same reasons a vegans child will not eat meat, because it's how we're raised. We are in the west not really raised to eat insects and yet people in other countries do. In modern terms it is merely a social cause. However this doesn't apply to some people who eat meat as they need a very high protein value in their food. Again bodybuilders and strength athletes fit under that category and do it based on nutrition principles.

Originally posted by Orlan Zvezda
When did we start doing it and why?

Answered above with the whole chimp thing.

Originally posted by Orlan Zvezda
Will we be healthier if we stop?

Debatable depending on your lifestyles and genetics. Most people who adopt a vegan or vegetarian diet will experience a drop in cholesterol, cancer rates, heart disease and stroke. However according to the research people with a smal intake of meat according to accepted guidlines don't really show any major differences in long term studies to vegans in regards to mortality rates.

High cholesterol meats are a massive problem and should be avoided most of the time. I eat one of these maybe once a week at most, the rest of the time i stick to lean meats and fish. My cholesterol is rediculously low, i don't have cancer and according to my doctor i have the liver of an eskimo. Apparently that's a very good thing btw.

The point is that the majority will be perfectly healthy eating meat if they just moderated it properly. The true arguements against eating meat are moral ones, and in the end morals are very subjective.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by mattifikation


I read it and to me it just seemed a moral argument, sorry if it wasn't but at the time i was requesting scientific only arguements to do with the original questions. I may have been over zealous.

Originally posted by mattifikation
The original argument proposed in this thread is invalid, even if it is true!


In the end, it doesn't matter whether we are natural omnivores, herbivores, or carnivores. It doesn't matter because we have free will and the intelligence to implement it. By nature, it's our choice to do what we want, regardless of whether or not it's good for us.

Quoted from your previous post, that is a moral arguement not a scientific one.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by ImaginaryReality1984]

The point I was making is that we have evolved with the ability to choose, and that is a scientific statement. Would you prefer it if I said denying people the ability to choose is "unnatural" as opposed to "wrong?" Both statements are true and make the same point, so I can go either way.

I think this thread is getting a lot tenser than it needs to be. We should all get together at a Steakhouse and discuss this issue over some delicious cow meat, maybe that'll brighten up the mood. :-)

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
Thank you for your answers! they make sense. Especially the eskimo liver thing. They have good livers?

Originally posted by mattifikation
The point I was making is that we have evolved with the ability to choose, and that is a scientific statement. Would you prefer it if I said denying people the ability to choose is "unnatural" as opposed to "wrong?" Both statements are true and make the same point, so I can go either way.

I think this thread is getting a lot tenser than it needs to be. We should all get together at a Steakhouse and discuss this issue over some delicious cow meat, maybe that'll brighten up the mood. :-)

I'm not tense, just don't like someone saying i didn't read their thread when i have read every page here. Just because i didn't agre with your response doesn't mean i didn't read it. Would love to go to the steak house, as long as they serve chicken or something

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


This is not a reasonable discussion or debate and that is why you are so bent out of shape about my comments. Vegetarians and vegans have an almost religious fervor in their beliefs just as creationists and 911 the government wouldn't do that to us'ers, and global warming wingnuts. Nothing can be said to a zealot to change their mind, therefore there is no real discussion or debate (as they have already made up their mind), is there?

In answer to the OP's questions:
1.We eat meat because we evolved to do so , most likely out of nutritional needs, i.e. a lack of enough vegetation that was edible and nutrtious. Just as chimps eat meat to survive because they are in direct competition with mountain gorillas in some areas.(perhaps sometime soon we will see a resource war between them).

2. A long time ago, probably before we were truly human if you believe the science. Again, chimpanzees have also been observed eating meat, so we are not the only homonids that do so.

3.Unlikely. There is no proof that vegetarians live longer than meat eaters.
Anecdotally, most vegetarians I know are substantially less healthy, and look borderline malnourished. They also catch a lot of colds and flus that last considerably longer than me and my meat eating friends.

There. Happy. No incediery comments.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984


I'm afraid that's a myth, the commonly bought up examples are John Wayne and Elvis Presley. If you read the reports of these two individuals you will find that Elvis was constipated upon autopsy due to drugs, not his diet.

Your right here ...

I have thought this was fact for a while ... but closer examination says that it is bollocks.

No probs about the miss-quote ... I wasn't sure so I thought I would double check.

And I agree with you that vegetarian food is delicious ... it's a shame that so many are dismissive of vegetarian fare ... it's so much more than just sides dishes and rabbit food!

One of my favs at the moment is from this little vegetarian take away:

Yellow dahl, fresh salad (leaves, carrots, beetroot, cucumber and olives) with a great dressing and brown rice. It's so so tasty.

This may start a fire:

How do those who eat a meat orientated diet feel about the effects of growth hormones, processed feed, unsustainable farming practises and the over fishing of our seas is having on your bodies and our planet?

One song.

Immortal Technique - Beef and Broccoli

reply to post by Horza


All of those issues are political, as the average farmer and fisherman don't use those practices, they are done by large corporate operations. Not disagreeing with you. Like I said before most people wouldn't eat meat if they were involved in the process. Free range is the way to go, if you can afford it, or even find it.
As an aside, I have a meat based diet, and enjoy all sorts of vegetarian dishes. Why do V's always make it sound like meat eaters sit around eating meat only, with nothing else? I doubt there is anyone out there eating meat exclusively. That would be ridiculous.

Originally posted by Horza

How do those who eat a meat orientated diet feel about the effects of growth hormones, processed feed, unsustainable farming practises and the over fishing of our seas is having on your bodies and our planet?

I feel that the chicken I had for dinner tonight was delicious, regardless of what was in it or how it was raised. I feel that I will miss seafood very much. I feel that the way it affects my body is my business, and how it affects the planet sucks but we're all doomed to a hundred other terrible fates in the near future anyways.

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat

This is not a reasonable discussion or debate and that is why you are so bent out of shape about my comments. Vegetarians and vegans have an almost religious fervor in their beliefs just as creationists and 911 the government wouldn't do that to us'ers, and global warming wingnuts. Nothing can be said to a zealot to change their mind, therefore there is no real discussion or debate (as they have already made up their mind), is there?

That's the problem you're having then, you're trying to convert, i'm not expecting such a thing. You don't need to bring someone around to your way of thinking in order to have a good discussion. If the case were that it's pointless to debate someone whos made up their mind we wouldn't have democracies, just dictatorships.

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat
There. Happy. No incediery comments.

Yep pleased and pleasently surprised.

Originally posted by Horza
This may start a fire:

How do those who eat a meat orientated diet feel about the effects of growth hormones, processed feed, unsustainable farming practises and the over fishing of our seas is having on your bodies and our planet?

Quite simply? I don't eat meat produced in the way you portray it. In fact i have half a deer that i shot myself, butchered myself and i know was running a wild, healthy and happy existence nestled in a large chest freezer in the garage. I prefer to only eat meat i've shot myself, chicken being the main exception to this, and i buy that from a free range farm.

However i always recognise that to suply the world with food organic methods can't be used industry wide. It's not nice, but it wouldn't stop me eating meat. I've seen the bad farms, it's not nice, however it's necessary at this point in time. People like meat, so they should get it as we live in a free society.

As for the seas. Well i feel absolutely passionate about the current crisis in the seas. Firstly we need to stop eating only small sections of the stocks. In the UK cod is the big fish, fisherman often throw back perfectly edible fish because they're the wrong species! Just annoys the hell out of me people won't expand beyond cod.

Secondly we need to start world wide quotas. Some countries don't have quotas, others do. Canada is a good example of quota fishing that's carefully enforced, whether it's salmon or cod, they regulate it very carefully.

Thirdly i think that we need to give the fish stocks time to recover. My suggestion would be very low quotas for the next 3 years on any stock currently in trouble. After that you can raise the quota and regulate it each year depending on current stocks.

reply to post by Danger Girl

Your logic is flawed and your science is sloppy. Humans are closely related to apes. Many apes are omnivores. Chimpanzees, for example, are one of our closest relatives. They have similar organs, dentiture and diets. They even eat Monkeys!
One of our most prevalent diseases is Diabetes. Grain and vegetable diets are high in carbohydrates which easily converts to sugar. Diabetics are now being encouraged to eat more protein (meat) to control their blood sugar levels. If you don't like people eating meat, then look away. Otherwise, you should really mind your own damned business and quit proselytizing your fanatic vegan views. It should be obvious even to you that you are not converting anyone with your moralizing sermons. As far as I'm concerned, PETA should stand for People Eating Tasty Animals. I'm not giving up meat for you or anyone else.

Originally posted by Bachelor
When a Vegetarian girl I was dating, told me that the life of a fish is no less important than my own... I've since come to realize it's best not to try and understand how those people think.

**just nods and agrees... whatever you say dear.

One time when I was eating a steak at a restaurant, a vegan sitting at a table next to me felt the need to get an attitude and say "how could you eat something that was once a living animal?".

I just looked at her and said "He died of starvation because you ate all his food". That shut her up pretty quick

I have nothing against vegans. I understand why most of them feel the way they do, but it annoys me when they attack people who eat meat. It also annoys me when they call themselves vegans then say things like "I'm sorry I can't eat meat. It was once a living creature, but I do enjoy some bacon every once in a while"

[edit on 16-6-2008 by nightmare_david]

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Not interested in becoming a convert, don't know where you got that. Not interested in converting anyone else either. My point was: that is something vegans (especially) do. Convert us all into non-meat eaters.
I always take an aggressive stance when confronted with nonsense disguised as being for my own good, as should anyone.
Debate is pointless when one side is driven to change a persons mind to their puritanical way of thinking, and the other side thinks they should get bent. Which side do you think I'm on (that's a rhetorical)?
Wish I still had the time and means to go hunting, like yourself. Maybe one day when I move out of this urban paradise........

reply to post by nightmare_david


Like all religious fanatics, they are the biggest hypocrites in the room. Make no mistake, they are religiously fanatic.
Some oft heard Vegetarian quotes I've encountered:
"I won't eat anything with a face".

"But cows are so cute!" (until one kicks you or you get stampeded).

"Piggies are so adorable, I could never eat pork!" (as they bit into a blt. When questioned, answered: "it's not pork, it's bacon."

My personal favorite:
"I'm vegetarian, I don't eat red meat. I'll have the chicken cordon bleu, with a skewer of prawns please".
(that's chicken, fish, and pork. Some dairy in there too, but let's not split hairs )

[edit on 16-6-2008 by morthn1waytoskinacat]