Why are Atheists...Atheists?

What we percieve as God's intervention, really isn't God at all. We are born with a contract with life, and if what seems like a miracle happens for us, we attribute it to divine intervention when in reality it's just another part of our contract manifesting itself in our lives.
God is not a person enlarged.
I have no probelm with how people believe, for if their belief helps them to live a life of kindness, forgiveness, non-judgmentalism, love etc, then it's doing what should be done.
There is something greater than us, but it does not suffer from the emotions that we deal with, it has no ego. God is consciousness. God doesn't bless anyone, nor curse anyone, God doesn't need to be worshipped, for God is greater than that.
And as long as we equate God with our own petty perseptions and egos, in essence making God like us, we will always suffer.
When God created man, man returned the favor and created God in his own image, how wrong is that.

There is another side to atheism, and that is the admission of personal ignorance. Some people have a belief so strong they can say they know the truth of the universe. To myself that is just confusing, we are stupid, barely evolved past apes, insignificant life forms sitting on a rock in space, still at the stage of murdering each other for resources. And yet some of us think we know the secrets of the universe, because it was told to us or written in a book.

For me atheism isn't even atheism as such, it's not believing in nothing, it's just being able to say "Hell if i know!" I used to be an atheist, and I realized the supreme arrogance of me supposing I know anything of value at all about the universe, now I just say I dont know.



[edit on 24-5-2008 by unnamedninja]

There have been some outstanding posts and good arguments on both sides.

I appreciate the conviction that many of you have. That is the point as far as I am concerned.

I said I am not a religious person, so it is not my duty to alter or change anyones thinking, nor do I even care to!

My experience tells me that each and every one of us has a choice to believe however we choose to believe. I have only been expressing mine. Perhaps it will touch one or two of you, or not!

I asked God about something that had plagued me for years, and that was: "What is perfection?" The response that jumped out at me was one word: "Freedom." Not a litany of words and meanings, or poetic phrase, but just the one word.

Take from it what you want!

I'm an atheist, but I do not deny that a God could exist. In the same way, the universe could be a bacteria in the urine sample of a holographic mastodon. I have no reason to believe either possibility.

Western religion is a patriarchal control mechanism meant dually to replace the human desire for truth with diluted fairy tales and to instill fear and submission in society through the constant presence of a total authority that judges or even predetermines your actions. The idea that the individual has ultimate responsibility for their life is very scary to many theists.

[edit on 24-5-2008 by bled_eidol]

I guess I would be an athiest. However I am religious during disasters but it would really have to be something to make me say oh god. but i like church because there is a massive dateing scene there. proverbs are good to read at some point because they make sense.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Albert Einsteins general relativity... demands that the universe has a beginning.

The second law of thermodynamics... also demands a beginning to the universe.

As predicted by theory, astronomer Edwin Hubble observed that the entire universe is expanding from a single point...

In that other thread you were somehow trying to conclude that because our laws of physics behave the way they do, the Christian God must exist the way the bible says.

Have you considered M theory?

I guess I'm saying that the bottom line is, no matter what laws of physics a created universe may be stuck with, I'm sure they will all point to their creation

Anyway, here's a video with an alternative to the "God said so" explanation.

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

For those unfamiliar with scripture the "God of this age" Paul referred to is Satan. That doesn't mean we have to demonize every individual atheist. But it does say we have to realize their unbelief has a supernatural source. Which explains why the very clear evidence for God and his design is so easily ignored.

Okie dokie, this argument is the one that officially ends all rational discussion. If satan becomes your reason for any type of disagreement, you have not only taken this thread down an alternate route, but that route happens to be a dead end.

Atheism - Satan
Channelers and spiritualists - Satan
UFOs - Satan
Ghosts - Satan
Wiccans - Satan
Sucralose - Satan (and there I'd agree)

Considerer this quick and dirty scenario. The Large Hadron Collider in europe gives scientists more insight into the universe than ever before, perhaps even splitting the fabric of spacetime somehow revealing truths we couldn't have imagined. Maybe we're even contacted by vastly superior interdimensionals or we connect to the source itself. Now if this new information doesn't line up with exactly what you believe then there can only be one answer...

could it be.... hmmmmmmmmmmm



Satan!?!?

And as for what makes atheists atheists. Well, I'm sure that's something of a case by case basis. I like to think of myself as a For-All-Intents-And-Purposes Atheist. That basically means that I align myself with atheists because if there is a God (in that more traditional Judeo-Christian sense), It certainly wouldn't care whether or not we believed in It and is far more concerned with how we be behave. Anywho, perhaps I'll discuss more later, but I just received a call to play tennis, so good day to all.

Originally posted by bled_eidol
I'm an atheist, but I do not deny that a God could exist. In the same way, the universe could be a bacteria in the urine sample of a holographic mastodon. I have no reason to believe either possibility.

That's exactly where I am. It could be that the world is really a "proton-like" speck, traveling around a nucleus of an "atom-like structure", size being infinite in both directions, with much larger beings existing in a larger universe... A bit like a flea on a mammoth... But I have no reason to believe that, either.

To answer the original question. Why are atheists atheists? I have no reason to believe the story I was told as a child is true. Same as Santa.

It's interesting that people who don't believe in aliens don't have a collective name. We don't call these people "alienators" or anything. People who don't believe in angels, fairies, Santa, the Easter Bunny and other "beings" aren't collectively called something...

But those who don't believe in God have been assigned a special name just for them. That's why I don't like the word atheist and rarely assign it to myself. I am just a person. There are things I believe and things I don't believe. What people call God is something I don't believe exists. I think it's just a story. Some people believe it's true. They can have a special name. To me, the default is unbelief.

I have discovered that MANY things my parents told me turned out not to be true. The story of where we came from and where we're going is just one of them.

Click here for more information.

im an atheist, i became one because i believed in almost everything ( apart from christianity which i stopped believing as a child ), i read as much as i could on spirituality, on ufos, on hauntings on loads of different things and the more i read the less i started believing.

I wish i could go back to believing as although i now see the miracles and beauty in a fleeting life more, i am also more aware of my own mortality and when my dad passed away the loss hit me harder then i expected i suppose the thought that i could see him again cushions the blow but im certain that i wont. I probably come on these sort of sites to find something that would instill some faith a bit of proof or something to place doubt in my mind. The way it is now to me i see what i believe to be the truth and it hurts more than the lie but its the truth nonetheless and i dont want to kid myself for comfort

I haven't read this thread because, to be frank, I could probably recite it word for word before even reading it. I know exactly how these discussions go.

Regarding the OP - very well put, and I agree about the "throwing the baby out with the bath water" bit. After seeing the holes n religion, my gut reaction was to turn atheist. Now, I've developed a deeper spiritual understanding than ever, wholly detached from both the Abrahamic religions and atheism. Niether are for me and I think many atheists would be wise to detach religion and spirituality. They're unrelated!

However, people will never stop debating this - Christians nor atheists - not here on ATS nor anywhere. And to be honest, most people enjoy debating it - I know I do. As long as it takes place in a reasonably respectful manner, in a thread designated for such discussion, what's wrong with it? Anyone who is upset by a discussion can leave - Christian or atheist. Both secretly enjoy arguing the subject, they're not forced to partake in it.

I personally believe everything is part of a collective consciousness and none of this actually exists. Everything is created in our minds and life is used to gain experience through emotion for this collective consciousness.

reply to post by Cythraul


Thank you for your compliment on the OP. I am glad you heard what I was saying!

My applauds to everyone!!! This has been an unbelievably even tempered thread. My thanks!

I think that a sign of intelligence is to be able to discuss hot subjects without getting "our knickers in a twist" as someone on ATS says.

Someone asked me why Dolly Parton for quotes? Because sometimes the simplest quotes or the wisest statements made by someone who admits to not having much formal education makes more of an impression. We used to call it; horse sense!

Here is a quote that I feel belongs in this thread:

"The world is a kind of spiritual kindergarten where millions of bewildered infants are trying to spell God with the wrong blocks."
-Edwin Robinson

I do not believe in god, gods, etc. but I also do not consider myself an atheist, but a rationalist. This itself will surely irritate some people and it is not meant to belittle anyone.

I have seen no proof of god but I have seen proof that there is no god. Just look around and you will see what I mean. While that will be seen as a rather simple statement to an extremely complicated issue I believe that everyone (or most people) try to make this more complicated than it has to be.

All I ask is for you to prove to me that god exists in an intelligent thought out case without reverting to the term "faith". Not exactly an easy thing to do.

My position:

Agnostics are without knowledge of God.

Two types of theists:

A) Those who believe in a God and "know" God exists.
B) Those who believe in a God and do not know if God exists [aka Faith].

Two types of atheists:

A) Those who don't believe in a God and "know" God doesn't exist.
B) Those who don't believe in a God and don't know if God exists.

-Hence there exists two types of agnostic, the agnostic atheist and the agnostic theist.-

I am an agnostic atheist.

Where I accept a God could exist, yet don't believe in one.

Why?

It's the intellectually honest thing to do for me. If I had an experience that would inspire faith, then the situation may be different. Until then, I have no reason - personal, scientific, or otherwise - to believe.

reply to post by MatrixProphet

When you experience something profound, often it is hard to put into words.

We all can suffer from contempt prior to investigation at times!

I just don't like the God Box. The reality of most - putting God into a tight box with a lid. And anything that does not fit their definition or into their equation regarding God, cannot be right in their eyes.

My experiences of finding God where all outside any religion! I'm not going to share my whole story, it is to long.
I was raised in a home that believe in God. But didn't practice anything.
Having an agnostic attitude toward their belief. I went right to Viet Nam
after high school. When I came back, I was one screwed up kid. Some of my superiors thought I had gone wacko. But since I was being let out soon. Put up with my pointed questions and disregard for any military
respect. I went to Calif. after the service to search for something among the, anti establishment cultures, that were blossoming at the time. But didn't any love, so went home. Couldn't stand my old life as home. As I was too distraught over my war experiences. I got so depressed about their not being any love in the world. That I was holding on to life by a thread. One day a stranger handed me a little red book, with a Bible verse on each page. That was enough to give we some hope, that at least God, (if he existed) loved me. So once again I left to find (something). With nothing more the a backpack, I hitchhiked around. Had many experiences and adventures. My little bit of hope and faith, begin to grow. As every once in awhile, God would do something undeniable to encourage me.
It has been many years, many highs and lows, but through it all, God is the only one who has always stuck with me. Except for the dog he gave me.
You could never convince me there isn't a personal God. He didn't make me rich, give me a family, or anything of this world. But his own
Son was treated the same in this world. So I think I am in pretty good company. Now I wouldn't trade my little faith for anything.

[edit on 24-5-2008 by Howie47]

In the purist sense...

Atheist are just those of us who are willing to admit to others that we have'nt figured it out yet...

Originally posted by Sunsetspawn

n that other thread you were somehow trying to conclude that because our laws of physics behave the way they do, the Christian God must exist the way the bible says.

Have you considered M theory?

Ever heard the phrase grasping at straws? Multiple universe theories are a atheist joke. A desperate attempt to explain away the anthropic principal of cosmology that so strongly supports the belief in God that prominent atheists have actually converted due to the evidence.

What is one to make of all this? As with all scientific theories, we begin by asking for the evidence. So what is the empirical evidence for oscillating and parallel and multiple universes? Actually, there isn't any. As Weinberg admits, "These are very speculative ideas ... without any experimental support." Smolin is even more candid. He calls his ideas "a fantasy.... It is possible that all I have done here is cobble together a set of false clues that only seem to have something to do with each other.... There is every chance that these ideas will not succeed." I appreciate this candor, and I am reminded of that old Ptolemaic remedy for problematic data: "just add epicycles." Now we are in the realm of "just add universes."

D'Souza

Yes M theory is the atheist scientist last gasp in the face of overwhelming evidence for God. The prioncipal of Occams Razor that when offered many possible explanations the one that requires the least assumptions is the best.

All theories of multiple universes violate Occam's razor. These atheists invent a fantastically complicated set of circumstances to explain a single case when there is a much simpler, more obvious explanation right at hand. That our universe is designed for life because someone designed it that way. You don't need to make up the idea of a hundred billion universes that you know nothing about in order to account for the only universe you can possibly examine.

Okie dokie, this argument is the one that officially ends all rational discussion. If satan becomes your reason for any type of disagreement, you have not only taken this thread down an alternate route, but that route happens to be a dead end.

I apologize I didn't mean to imply that you could comprehend the Bible verses. Of course I would be in error to expect a materialist to be able to comprehend something that is spiritually discerned. If you had read my post that statement that was addressed to the Bible believing Christians. And it was never offered as a reason for disagreement only as the explanation for atheists blindness to the overwhelming and "obvious as the nose on your face" evidence for a creator.





[edit on 5/24/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by capgrup

All I ask is for you to prove to me that god exists in an intelligent thought out case without reverting to the term "faith". Not exactly an easy thing to do.

You are exactly right! But it is too abstract to put into words in the way you want.

I have a relationship with God that goes beyond faith. Faith is too intangible. All I can tell you is that there can be situations where there can be no doubt in your mind that there is a presence that has intervened in your life.

An example:

I reached a helpless, demoralized state at one point in my life. I decided to kill myself. I knew that it was wrong as I would be leaving three children. But I felt that my life was beyond salvaging, and that they would be better off without me anyway.

I had a relationship of sorts with God but felt too insignificant and too wicked. So I had not prayed to him in years. As I was sobbing driving down a road, deciding how to do the deed, I sobbingly asked God to let me go. Let me die. I felt at the time that it was a great sin.

There was a beautiful lake (Lake Washington in Seattle). I was driving down this beautiful boulevard and decided to pull into a parking spot to walk out to the pier. It was very quiet and no-one was around.

I was sitting on this bench on the pier looking over the water, deciding how to end my life. When up walked a stranger, one who I had never seen before. He asked me if I owned the bench, laughingly. I thought; "Oh great, now this guy is going to harass me, maybe he will kill me and I will be off the hook!"

He said to me, "You don't want to live - do you? ...Well, God wants you to live, he does not want you to die." He said, "Look at the beauty here, he cares for that mother duck as he cares for the chicks (it was like out of a corny Hollywood movie with a mother and her chicks going by at that moment on the lake).

He talked to me for about 20 minutes, got me laughing, and then left, never to see him again. I never wanted to take my life again after this incident. I then had many other incidents after this one that kept building my confidence regarding the existence of a God.

It is easy to be skeptical, to rationalize this situation. But I want to add; it is not just the fact that a strange young man approached me, but the circumstances had the strangest feeling associated with it. I had just told God and begged him to let me go, and let me take my will, and my own life. Just minutes before! I must have been on the pier for no more than 10 minutes. It wasn't like I was sitting there sobbing. I had reached a calm state with a calm demeanor when he approached!

One of my posts earlier in this thread, I discussed what spiritual means to me (someone asked me to define it). This example fits aspects of what I was trying to say. There is a tremendous awareness that is attached to a divine experience. Not just the experience itself, although that in itself can be great. But the feeling that goes along with it, can be extraordinary.

I have had many incidents that would raise ones brows, and there have been eye witnesses, to some of them.

reply to post by chiS2000

Why are you so convinced that you're right, when the only evidence of your 'faith' is a book conveniently written by the followers of said faith?

Unbelievers tend to confuse "faith", with blind faith. If you saw all the miracles the slaves of Egypt where shown to encourage their faith. You wouldn't be putting down faith like it was nothing.

I have this quote on my Einstein thread:

"I believe in Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the orderly harmony of what exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fates and actions of human beings.

A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty - it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man." -Albert Einstein

Of course, in that thread I expressed the idea that Einstein did not know how to explain how he felt spiritually, without using the word; religion. These quotes were written many decades ago when the word "spiritual" was not a common replacement for the term; religion.