Why are Atheists...Atheists?

reply to post by Bigwhammy




How can i look at evidence when there is none?I have stated more than once to show me some evidence but you just want to link me to arguments and assumptions.

Typical religious response.Good luck to ya.

I was once a Roman Catholic. Over time though, as I thought, I realized that the idea of God is just not one that I CAN believe in. There is no evidence for the existence of God whatsoever. Give me ONE piece of solid proof of the existence of any divine being, and I will believe.

Certainly religions were invented by wise people. They provide laws that have governed hundreds of millions of people's behaviour for millenia. However, I believe that responsible, educated people do not need the threat of smiting or damnation to act ethically and rightly.

My question is for all who believe in any god or gods at all: Why? What makes Jesus, for example, so credible? There are plenty of nutcases who claim to be God or to be in contact with Him. What makes Jesus special? Or Moses? Or Muhammed? What sets them apart? Surely not the word of religious texts? Those books were not written by people withany claim to credibility. As for miracles, it is the same people who tell about them. Not one shred of actual EVIDENCE for them exists. So please answer me this: What makes destitute, uneducated men who lived from 1500-3000 years ago so widely believed?

[edit on 24-5-2008 by Korhyan]

[edit on 24-5-2008 by Korhyan]

I'd probably fit into the logical reasoning category. I became an atheist at an early age through learning about the evolution of man. Ancient man used the idea of good and evil spirits to account for things they had no explanation for, such as the early practice of trephining to release the evil spirits from someone's head which were causing them pain (this pain was caused by pressure on the brain and trephining relieved that pressure).

Once I had learnt some of that early history it was only a short chain of logical steps to realise that the idea of god was entirely man made and, in my view, quite primitive. The transience of belief was also a factor, the Roman or Egyptian gods seem a little silly and like a childs story to us now but at the time they were regarded in the same way as the major faiths are today. I can't help but think that in the future the major religions of today will be looked upon the same way.

I'm comfortable with my atheism and don't seek to influence anyone else's beliefs (my wife is actually a believer). Live and let live, other people's faith is their own business and it's not my place to judge them or theirs to judge me.

I already gave the psychological theories for atheism. But I think its really far worse than a mere malady. On a very deep level, I believe atheists know that God exists. It's not that I am calling them liars, I am simply being true to Biblical Christian views. It's blindness more than dishonesty.

20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. (Romans 1)

Both sides have to come up with some reason why the "other guys" aren't convinced by the exact same evidence. The prevailing atheist view point is that Christians are gullible sheeple, anti-scientific, and anti-rational. Atheists can make up whatever they want about us. But Christians have to agree with Biblical teaching about unbelief. Again it's blindness more than deliberate dishonesty.

The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

For those unfamiliar with scripture the "God of this age" Paul referred to is Satan. That doesn't mean we have to demonize every individual atheist. But it does say we have to realize their unbelief has a supernatural source. Which explains why the very clear evidence for God and his design is so easily ignored.

reply to post by UncleLuke


Have you heard of M-theory? It explains how the universe came to be quite neatly and MATHEMATICALLY, in tandem with quantum physics. There are an infinite number of universes. The existence of matter in ours may be a freak accident, but it literally HAD to happen somewhere, according to quantum. No god is neccesary.

Also, the whole "you will go to hell" argument is one of the crappiest points I have ever heard. Atheists do not believe in hell. Somehow, though, I hear it every time I talk to a well-intentioned Christian, who never questions what his priest says, about religion. When will you people understand that atheists do not believe ANY of your myths? Not even the ones about post-mortem punishment.

reply to post by Korhyan


And it's all completely speculation with ZERO evidence. Even Hawking admits that. It's an absurd atheist ruse because of the implications of a finite universe.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


I ask again: why are people like Paul considered to be credible? Do you have any reason at all to believe what he wrote. You can not even know that his name was really Paul. You can not even no that he was not actually she. Why do you believe him?

I would also like to add that I left Catholicism for atheism, because when I was Catholic, I knew on that deep level you mentioned, that there was no god.

[edit on 24-5-2008 by Korhyan]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


I do not think you know what it is that I am referencing. Our universe is finite, but there are an infinite number of SEPERATE universes.

Also, do not say "it." I have to guess what you are talking about.

[edit on 24-5-2008 by Korhyan]

Interesting thread. I'm amazed at how civil this has remained for the most part.

Myself, I didn't know I was an atheist until I was in probably the 6th or 7th grade, when I was finally confronted with real religious belief and found out I was on a "side". I knew all the stories, celebrated Christmas, and so on, but that's all they ever were, just stories. Old faerie tales that nobody really believed, carry-forward traditions like Thanksgiving Day from a simpler time. It truly amazed me, and still does to this day, that people can believe the things they do.

I have never thought there was a higher power. Ever. All I've ever thought is that there is me and six and a half billion other humans, struggling to make it through life as best we can, leaning on each other to be able to survive. Everything else is just unnecessary complication, and detracts from the focus you need to make the most of what little time you have.

My mother is very passively Christian, my father is a staunch atheist. I took after him very strongly, and although there were some rather rough spots between us, I do not hate, nor even dislike him. On the contrary - I love him very much. So much for the father theory, I guess.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
On a very deep level, I believe atheists know that God exists.

On a very deep level, I believe that the religious know that they could very well be wrong, and are padding their lives with rules they don't really believe in, "just in case".

I guess I would be called an agnostic. If there is a God he is very cruel and makes no logical sense whatsoever. Let's take a few examples. A couple of years ago there was a series of mine collapses. I think all or most of these miners and there families prayed equally. So God must have flipped a coin to see who he saved. He saved one out of twelve in one mine. Zero out of three in another. Zero out of twelve in yet another. I forget the exact numbers but you get the idea. Now let's look at some more of his work.
He let's child molesters go free while he saves an eighty year old lady from a burning trailer. This makes no sense to me at all. He seems to save one person while hundreds of other perish. For every miracle God supposedly does there are hundreds more that don't happen. Disease, famine, tragedy, disasters, strike people all over the world of all religions. So in response to the original posters question my answer would be Logic.
Prayer may or may not work. People rejoice when it does but when it doesn't they just say it was God's will. God's bigger picture. Religion makes no sense to me at all.

Why is it any more rational to believe in an invisible, intangible, unproven entity thats completely omnipotent, created the universe and all life but is strangely fixated on you, your actions and whether or not you believe this to be the case?

If someone today, said they heard voices in their head which caused them to write various passages and tell the world, he would be locked in a padded cell and laughed at. Why is this any more credible coming from a 2000+ year old source, a time when spirits, gods and daemons were commonly thought to be as real as you and me?

Many of these myths have been inherited from much older civilizations like the egyptions and sumerians, calling further attention to the inaccuracy of the source. Not only is the source of the writing in many cases plagiarized, but it's been altered through mis-transcription over generations before the printing press, mis-translation and of course theres doctoring done by those in power at the time.

Of course it takes a certain amount of faith to believe in God, but today it also takes faith to believe you are actually receiving "the teachings of God" as God intended them to be with source material as it is. They could actually look vastly different than those currently taught and thought to be true...

I have a million reasons and not that much time, mainly my first point; it doesn't matter what millennium you live in, you hear voices from invisible people in your head that tell you to do things, you're not right. Take a stroll through a mental hospital and I'm sure you'll end up with volumes of previously unknown teachings coming directly from God through a lucky few that can hear his words of wisdom. *flame suit on* Give'er

reply to post by 1-Cent


Totally agree with you on the imaginary friend part.

If Jesus is in heaven than what the hell is he doing up there that is so important not to tend his own people. Maybe he thinks its ok to sit back and watch humanity destroy itself and what really gets me is that he insists we find the way ourselves when he knows there are influences than can make people stray.

Then we have the other side of the topic with demons and everything or bad entities so where is God to stop them from possessing people. What if a ten year old kid is possessed, isn't that Gods fault for not preventing it when he knows we cant stop it.

He has walked out on humanity and as long as people keep praying under the name of a God who doesn't exist than the world will continue to believe in this fraud. Then demons are free to roam and take over who ever they want so in the end we cant win either way.

Believe in God and evil still happens, don't believe and evil still happens, thats why Im Spiritual for, I don't have to deal with this garbage and I can fend off bad entities when I need to. I believe there are good spirits who guide me in the ways of good so I don't need God to tell me that and I can fend off bad entities so Im covered.

And these spirits appear to me to my face, God doesn't.

[edit on 24-5-2008 by Drakiir]

There's a construct in social psychology called "cognitive dissonance". Christians when faced with other belief systems, or lack there of, tend to experience this first hand. Your average atheist or agnostic person, other than the one with a strong altruistic personality type, generally won't even bother to read these posts much less post a reply. Because an atheist doesn't believe in mythology or Christianity or Judaism, or Muslim or whatever, they don't care. It's the ones who do have a belief that have everything to lose...enter "cognitive dissonance".

My advice to all of you religious folk: Get Over It! Have your belief if it serves you well, and forget about this ridiculous nonsense about the atheists. Atheists are such a small percentage anyway. Most people believe in something. I also find it interesting that "most" people also don't have advanced degrees either. Not to be rude (seriously, I just want to make a point), what makes you think someone at the higher levels of academia or the sciences is going to waste time posting replies to insecure Christian (or any religious based belief system) threads on ATS????

You guys already are the majority, what do you have to be worried about? If your faith is so strong, why the need to constantly post about if someone believes in god or not? I don't get it?

reply to post by xXMakaXx


I totally agree.....
i personally dont have a label either..... my beliefs are this:

i believe this person (jesus) maybe existed, but as a mortal, as i suppose his name came from somewhere right?

but i do not have an opinion about anybody else who believes in there own god because it is entirely upto them. I have relatives who are christians and i have often had deep discusions with them about mine and there believes and they are equaly as interested in what i have to say.....

I believe what is right in front of me, what i see, and until anyone presents me with something other than this, its the way i will stay....

Just my opinion
x

I think all religions should be banned from public life, in pivrate people should be allowed to follow whatever religion they want to but in public no one should be allowed to talk about religion or mention any kind of religious idea.

Churches and religious meeting places in general should be abolished and forbidden and religious association should be forbidden too.

Anyone should be allowed to practice any form religion and any form of spiritual ritual in private inside his home.

Parents should be jailed if they baptize their children into any religion, anyone who indoctrinates a children into any form of religion should be punished someway.

People should be free to practice any form of religion if they seek it by their own will and only indoors and in small groups only.

If a preacher wants to reach his community he should have to go house buy house, this would make him a better preacher, closer to his community members and would avoid mass manipulation...

There is no need to keep empowering the established religious status quo.

I wouldn't consider myself a "religious" person. I do however believe in God. I have had experiences that have led me to believe there is a higher being at work but I utterly despise organized religion. I see a lot of people that blame the wars and killing on God. God is not the reason for killing and suffering I believe that it's organized religion and their interpretation of God's will that causes all of the problems. God is unaffected by the whims of mankind, but organized religion is a tool used by a few to control many and persuade them to the same train of thought(Brainwashing). I believe that God resides in all of us and we do not need to follow an organized religion to be "saved" so to speak. I feel all "religious" texts are wrong, yes there is still a thread of truth in them but over millenia they have been so twisted and perverted by kings and churches for the purpose of subjugating and oppressing the masses that we no longer should be following them. I know alot of atheists but the way I see it is atheism is a religion in it's own right. Looking at it most of the so called Atheists I know seem to fit more into the Agnostic category.
Sorry about that, I tend to ramble on sometimes.

reply to post by MatrixProphet


For many years i was an extreme atheist, very close-minded about anything I couldn't perceive within the range of my own limited senses. Fortunately, I was not raised with any religion, but I followed scientism (which is just another belief system with it's own dogma). The only difference between both close-minded forms of this is that there's no drive to proselytize the scientism belief system. Please note that I understand that manymost followers of religious belief systems do not proselytize. Some of my extreme mindset had to do with my son's autism, and anger at the classic image of a caring diety. A number of events have occurred that have changed this mindset (and they had to be rather extreme for someone like me--I will go to great lengths to find a logical and normal answer. Some of what I experienced so defied this that I was forced to study it further, and upon doing so found that science (which was what I trusted) has discovered much to reveal a far larger picture than the a close-minded skeptical mindset can explain. I am an open-minded skeptic, which is, for me, the best and most logical approach. If I had to place a label on my beliefs, it would be pantheist. I believe there is a universal intelligence which is not external to me, does not need or care if I 'worship' it or not, etc. I view difficult/negative experiences as necessary for me to learn, and understand not only how little I know, but the learning process is completely blocked by the belief that one already knows everything. If one wanted to use the generic ter 'god' to describe this universal intelligence which exists in and of everything/everywhere/everywhen, its simply a matter of semantics. I avoid doing so to avoid confusion (that I am not making reference to a separate diety. It has irritated some to the point that I've been asked if I believe I'm "God", and I have answered in the affirmative. I then ask them if they are not 'God', and therefore separate from 'God'--to which I have either been greeted with silence or a 'no' without any further discussion. It is impossible for me to associate with those who believe they are better than I because they have a belief system which assures them that they know everything (or more than I) and are therefore superior. I hope this observation/perspective adds to the topic.

reply to post by carole9999

I must add this to those who fear death because of oblivion/non-existence. Although everything I've learned indicates that consciousness survives death and this is what I believe, I must add this to those who fear it for the aforementioned reason. If you no longer 'exist' after physical death, you would have no memory and consciousness to perceive your existence, not even sensing 'time' passing, etc., so what difference could it possibly make? Slightly off-topic, but somewhat relevant.

Enough with this word "evidence". Bigwhammy, you have none. You have 2000 years worth of hear-say, that wouldn't even be admissable in a court of law today. Archeologists are still trying to prove that a man named Jesus even lived around the area of Jerusalem,Nazareth,Bethlehem, in and around BC/AD30, and they can't...conclusively.

You already stated that there's a 10% chance you could be wrong, (I'd say the percent is alot higher but that's just me), and that christianity is wrong.

That your only "going with the odds", because your FEAR of ending up in the ground with worms. Christianity really plays on those fears doesn't it?

So your a Christian because your afraid, but christians call fear-faith because it makes them feel better.

Good job man, keep comeing back. Remember to dig deep in your pockets when they pass the trays, because...

"The more you give, the more you live!"

I find it funny that the guy who believes in an imaginary many in the sky is citing psychiatrists. Oh the irony.





[edit on 24-5-2008 by Nola213]