Why are Atheists...Atheists?

reply to post by SR




You of course are intelligent to know that you are wasting your breath metaphorically speaking. Faith is blind

I am deeply sorry. This is one of only several posts I have made. I will not after due consideration be making anymore, or attending these forums. It is simply a waste of my time and not worth the intellectual effort. Trying to debate with the religious, it is like trying to explain sociology to an ant. It is all around them but their world view can't encompass it.

reply to post by thanatosdb


I can relate. I feel your condolences and frustrations. I have many times left this site and came back. You have to understand that it takes time for concepts to sink into the minds that have been brain washed not only for thousands of years but for possibly decades within their own life times.

They still subscribe to faith and don't comprehend logic, physics, eternity, existence, the universe, etc.

I'd say stick around because there really can be a lot to learn here and if you can't find anything to pack in your intellectual suitcase then at least pull out what you're hiding and teach a few of those that are less fortunate. Your endeering endeavors only help the future of this planet, to give up does absolutely nothing but let them continue to rule by ignorance.

I have been an atheist, but I am no more. It was nice, but I think my current belief is superior in every way. Yes, I do believe in a sort of God, but God is not the proper word.

I wish I was strong enough to be an atheist

Instead I am a funamental agnostic. I'm happy to accept other peoples religions as long as THEY take responsibility for their actions. For every Mother Theresa hat has a higher calling, there is also a Yorkshire Ripper.

I totally accept aetheists but do worry that in the UK, a secular country, they actually have no-one to represent them - Richard Dawkins is probably the closest.

Originally posted by SR



Again look at how yourself as a person is actually reacting your trying to defend the indefensible. God killed like a psycho and yet your defending it's actions.

Hey guy, I haven't defended a thing yet, till I get your pm's. I want to thank you for that kind of consideration however.

This supposedly supereme creator who can wipe out people with a few gestures can't defend it's self against some 21 year old criticising it's self on the internet......

One of the freedoms you have is free will which means you are entitled to your opinion. Since neither God nor I seek your approval and truth needing no defense

Purlease i don't mean to offend you but it's showing you as an insecure person who can't handle criticism of your beliefs?

Well hehe like I said, I have not seen anything in my pm's yet to defend per-se, so it's a scandalous bit presumptuous of you to cast me in such a insecure light. I assure you, whether we end up agreeing or not, I can certainly "handle it".

It's your ego talking if you really were committed to the bible you wouldn't care what people thought of your beliefs if they were strong enough at the end of the day as the teachings in there from jesus tell you.

Like I said I seek not your approval but merely want to see your proof God is a Psycho,.

I mean would you be so caring towards a death row inmate and defend them to the bitter end???

We are not talking about someone convicted as such in my opinion and until you can show me where God is on the same level.

Edit: I'd respect religious people more if they just admitted they are happy to be slaves and yes they do worship a mass murderer. At least then we'd get some honesty and could move forward as a race and address the issues instead of the constant circle-jerk logic.

I tell ya what guy,, forget about the pm's and you know what you can do with the disingenuous suggestion that you actually cared about offending me. None was taken but I can see that it doesn't matter now anyway after that last comment. After that last post, you can expect one to be defensive. People normally get that way when they are being ATTACKED.

It seems you are guilty of everything you

just accused me of

- Con




[edit on 25-5-2008 by Conspiriology]

reply to post by thanatosdb

Trying to debate with the religious, it is like trying to explain sociology to an ant.

That can be very true. Narrowness in any field of understanding can be frustrating. But please keep in mind that many of us who believe in a higher power (and that includes many scientists, now) are not religious.

There are actually some religious out there, who like many atheists, are not bull-headed. Please don't use that old cliche of stereotyping.

Narrowness can be a disease of many beliefs, make sure that this does not become your pitfall also! I've known just as many ignorant, and narrow, prejudiced atheists, as I have in the religious groups.

"If a person offends you, and you are in doubt as to whether it was intentional or not, do not resort to extreme measures; simply watch your chance, and hit him with a brick." - Mark Twain LOL!

Another words, learn to laugh at yourself!

reply to post by Conspiriology


You know its a funny thing but I thought at the start of this thread that this might turn out ot be a harsh attack on atheists which is NOT how I operate as a believer but after watching the the thread develop I realize the opposite is happening...Planet Crazed - business as usual....nothing new under the sun

reply to post by templar knight

I wish I was strong enough to be an atheist

Instead I am a funamental agnostic.

I don't know why, and it is none of my business. But I have a feeling that if that were truly the case, you would follow your heart. Many just do not have reason enough to change!

Have patience there Templar Knight. You may find that being Agnostic is just and in between step to full Atheist. I've been there.
Lifting that final burden of doubt about there being a god is a great feeling, but of course you know that then you must take the full responsibility for the life that you create for yourself.

Know the truth and it will set you free.

reply to post by MatrixProphet

The evangelicals have a tendency to feel it is their obligation to transform our thinking and through counterfeit love - "help us!"

Yeah we just do it because we love to be annoying and have people make fun of us for it. It's a hobby. You say it seems counterfeit, well we are humans, have you ever tried to be loving to someone who is spitting in your face? It's not the easiest thing to do.

Can you imagine why we would do it anyway? For kicks? Not. Gee maybe because we care... maybe because Yeshua charged us with it as a duty to God.

8And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
(Matt 28)

Religion is not doing that well in the U.S. Many are scrambling to keep it together. Joel Osteen is doing particularly well along with possibly a couple others, but I see it all as going down.

Actually liberal "feel good"religion is not doing that well.

Liberal Christians are distinguished by how much intellectual and moral ground they concede to the adversaries of Christianity. "Granted, no rational person today can believe in miracles, but ..." "True, the Old Testament God seems a mighty vengeful fellow, but...." "Admittedly religion is responsible for most of the conflict and oppression in history, but...."

This yes-but Christianity in full intellectual withdrawal, and it is also becoming less relevant. The liberal churches are losing members in droves. Once these churches welcomed one in six Americans; now they see one in thirty. In 1960 the Presbyterian church had 4.2 million members; now it has 2.4 million. The Episcopal church had 3.4 million; now it has 2.3 million. The United Church of Christ had 2.2 million; now it has 1.3 million!'

Traditional churches are growing by picking up the slack from the "yes but" churches...

The traditional churches, not the liberal churches, are growing in America. In 1960, for example, the churches affiliated with the Southern Baptist Convention had 8.7 million members. Now they have 16.4 million.5

The real growth in the Christian church is in third world counties in S America and Africa. Pretty soon the Africans will be sending missionaries to the USA.

percent live in the developing world. More than two out of three evangelical Christians now live in Asia, Africa, and South America. Here are some numbers Jenkins provides: Europe today has 560 million Christians and America has 260 million, yet many of these are Christian in name only. In comparison, there are 480 million Christians in South America, 313 million in Asia, and 360 million in Africa. The vast majority of these are practicing Christians. There are more churchgoing Presbyterians in Ghana than in Scotland.

So urce




[edit on 5/25/2008 by Bigwhammy]

With so many religions of Love and Peace, why isn't the world getting any better/nicer/more friendly?

If indeed more people are going to church, this is very scary to all of us logical thinking, rational, peace loving folks who are taking the responsibility for creating our own lives.


The IRS is a profit making corportaion.

reply to post by andre18


Andre you really need to get some new material you are just embarrassing yourself now. How many times do you have to be publicly humiliated? Are you a masochist?

theories –
The theory of Electromagnetism
The theory of Atomics ‘
The theory of Gravity
The theory of Heliocentrism

Don’t worry, the earth going around the sun – it’s only a theory, maybe the bible’s right after all.

The Bible makes no mention of the earth not going around the sun. It merely says the sun rises in the sky. Just like everyone today calls it a "sun rise" because from an earthly perspective that is what we see. So you have no point there. Now the rest is even more amusing...

The theory of Electromagnetism - discovered by Hans Christian Oersted.
Orsted use a spiritual interpretation of Science.
Hans Christian Ørsted's Spiritual Interpretation Of Natural Science

Also Michael Faraday, A Christian, contributed greatly to electromagnetics

...as a Christian Faraday felt that no God-given moment should be wasted. His time had to be strictly controlled. He pursued both his science and his religion with total dedication'.

www.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk...

The theory of Atomics ‘- John Dalton a Quaker no less!!!

Dalton was as faithul a Quaker as any, attending serviced twice each Sunday throughout his entire life. Often he served as a representative to his church's councils. Once he proposed that music be allowed into worship services, but when this was denied, he accepted the decision of his peers. By all accounts, he was a God-fearing, decent, and honest man...

www.adherents.com...

The theory of Gravity- Sir Issac Newton Bible scholar and theologian

What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding from the Bible God's plan for history. He did a lot of work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology very important. In his system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being."

www.adherents.com...

The theory of Heliocentrism- Nicolaus Copernicus a Canon in the Catholic church no less

Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun. He attended various European universities, and became a Canon in the Catholic church in 1497. His new system was actually first presented in the Vatican gardens in 1533 before Pope Clement VII who approved, and Copernicus was urged to publish around this time. Copernicus was never under any threat of religious persecution - and was urged to publish both by Catholic Bishop Guise, Cardinal Schonberg, and the Protestant Professor George Rheticus. Copernicus referred sometimes to God in his works, and did not see his system as in conflict with the Bible.

www.adherents.com...

Andre every theory you mentioned was created by a theist. So I guess your point is that good science is a deeply religious activity. Thanks Andre.






[edit on 5/25/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by MatrixProphet


I like your viewpoints. Very well thought out and presented. I'm glad I'm not the only one out there that sees "a thread of anger" in most aethiests.

reply to post by Bigwhammy

Yeah we just do it because we love to be annoying and have people make fun of us for it. It's a hobby. You say it seems counterfeit, well we are humans, have you ever tried to be loving to someone who is spitting in your face? It's not the easiest thing to do.

Why I call it counterfeit is; because of the approach and motives. No-one is going to feel sorry for you if you use as a guise for self-righteousness and contempt; a display of phony love. It reeks of hypocrisy, and we are kidding ourselves if we think we are pulling it off.

We are not victims but are volunteers. Our expression of love may be abuse to someone else.

Yes, I do relate to what you are saying. I used to feel that I was supposed to love everyone until I took notice that God does not love everyone! No, I don't love everyone, nor do I feel that it is the spiritual thing to do. I don't even like most people.

Counterfeit love is like - false concern, false piety, and the really dysfunctional; unconditional love (except for children and invalids). It is all a lie.

I don't believe in powder-puffing the truth. I prefer directness. Anyone who says that they love everyone, I know are lying. It's like judging, we all do it in spite of our denial.

How can you at times tell someone is lying? Their lips are moving!

reply to post by MatrixProphet


I can relate and I have noticed the same thing at times. People that seem concerned and you just know they are doing out of duty more than genuine interest in you. But so what? Quite honestly at least they are trying to do something for their fellow man. Christians are still humans, some are further in their walk and more selfless than others.

If you are "down and out" at the soup kitchen - getting something to eat is quite genuine enough. Bottom line is, who is in Africa taking care of AIDs babies? The Atheist Society? I think not! Who runs the homeless shelters, orphanages, and soup kitchens of the world? In most part Christians.

Originally posted by thanatosdb


I am an atheist on intellectual grounds, rational and humanist ground.

Of course.

Read Darwin, read Dawkins

Read it, unimpressed on intellectual, rational, and logical grounds.

Human beings should in this day and age have outgrown such blinkered stupidity.

Well I believe it,, so I guess that makes me stupid in your opinion.

It is religion and belief that kill people not lack of belief, and don't give the hackneyed, but Hitler was an atheist as was Stalin

. No Hitler was raised a Catholic and expressed as many religious beliefs as non religious beliefs. The key thing with Hitler is he was insane from tertiary syphilis.

Isn't it just like an Atheist to speculate on a literally impossible to prove assumption and pass it off as fact.

yep

Hitler who had eye examinations by experienced ophthalmologists none of whom found evidence of the eye-abnormalities associated with neuro-syphilis.

www.parkinson.org...

As for Stalin, raised a Russian Orthodox.

But lived as a devout Athiest like many other Atheist raised in a Religion.

It's obvious you are making excuses for the Atheist historical side while embellishing your angst for religion with a bias so thick you could cut it with a knife.

As for science being another belief. That is trite. Science requires the methodological investigation of evidence for properly constructed theories.

The very reason Darwinian evolution is bunk science.

These theories are discarded if there is no empirical evidence for them. Where is the evidence for a god/gods, the absinthe pixie. The answer is none.

God being supernatural, makes the finite and incredibly inadequate "scientific method" a little obsolete in that regard but their ARE ways to test his presence but that isn't really what you want to do. No what you seem to be doing here is making excuses for Atheist atrocities, pass a lot of hearsay and / or conjecture around as if it was a bona fide fact, while you talk smack about people who believe in things you say are stupid. This doesn't suprise me at all in fact it is typical and the kind of post I have learned to expect from Atheists.

Yet the religious/faithful blindly cling to this outmoded system of thought control

Our mode system of thought control?

WoW! I guess I be "HIP MO TIZED" JASPER!

Religious faith stifles human thought and creativity and yet the "faithful" whoever they may be hypocritically claim to provide the foundations of morality

They don't say they provide it, they say they endorse it whether they fail to live up to it or not are for the same reason YOU do thinking you are so scientific endorsing methodological scientific investigation yet take an urban legend like Hitler rumored to have an STD and pass it off as an absolute without blinking an eye to the monumental hipocrisy in that.

What a joke, give me Kant any day. At least his philosophy wasn't motivated by a self centred belief in admission to a heaven or other paradise,for "good" works.

Ha ha ha who are the "good ones" ??

Belief in extraterrestrial or whatever is all very fine and good but if we are not careful another yet religion will be created, further underscoring any reason why any intelligent extra terrestrial life would stay well away from planet Earth.

Well, the interplanetary explorer you are would know that

wouldn't you ?

- Con




[edit on 25-5-2008 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by realshanti


You know its a funny thing but I thought at the start of this thread that this might turn out ot be a harsh attack on atheists which is NOT how I operate as a believer but after watching the the thread develop I realize the opposite is happening...Planet Crazed - business as usual....nothing new under the sun

mmm as the God of the Bible says,

Their is nothing new under the sun.

then again, this is skunkworks

- Con

[edit on 25-5-2008 by Conspiriology]

Originally posted by thanatosdb
Religious faith stifles human thought and creativity and yet the "faithful" whoever they may be hypocritically claim to provide the foundations of morality

This is the height of ignorant arrogance. Have you ever been to the Sistine Chapel? What about viewing Rembrandt's Christ at Emmaus or his Simeon in the Temple? Seen Michelangelo's Pieta? Leonardo da Vinci's Last Supper?

What about the great Gothic cathedrals contributions to architecture?

Is Western literature even conceivable without C.S. Lewis, Dante, Milton, and Shakespeare?

Western music theory is founded on Johann Sebastian Bach ( a church organist) and his harmony and counterpoint. What would Western music be without Handel's Messiah and Mozart's Requiem Mass?

So much for faith stifling creativity. Another atheist fable buried in the tomb of many lies. Not only were all these great artists Christian, but their influential works would never have been produced without the inspiration of Christianity. Human creativity and thought has never risen so high than in the works of Christian art, architecture, literature, and music.

And Christians do not claim to provide the foundations of morality. We claim God does. Without God there is no morality - it's all just personal preference and opinion.







[edit on 5/25/2008 by Bigwhammy]