More Americans Fear Losing Their Health Insurance Than Being in a Terrorist Attack

reply to post by Merle8

Private companies have no incentive to help drive up wages and I bet you unless something drastic happens real wages will never catch up to the level they used to be in the US.

Private Companies have no incentive to do ANYTHING other than to make profit.
Maximizing profit is what a business is run for. Golden Rule of Econs.

And since they're in it for the money they could care less about helping those in need, or social disenfranchisement or the unemployment rate, etc...
Healthcare Companies see in Black & White.

Profit and Loss. There's no in between, either you make money or you loose it; you don't put aside funds in order to create free health clinics to try to alleviate the health concerns of the unemployed or homeless, because that equals a loss.

Precisely which Privatized Corporation should not be in charge of citizen's welfare. Because in the end, they could care less, they are not bound to help people by any measure.

Originally posted by budski
In answer to that, we have something called a medical card which shows our NHS number - in theory you are supposed to have one of these before we can get treatment, otherwise there is supposed to be a charge for treatment.

However, we also have the problem of "health tourists" who come to take advantage of the system.

And there lies the problem - the hippocratic oath, and enforcement.

Yea but there are many politicians who wold allow illegal immigrants to have such a card.

As for the hippocratic oath, you are right no one should ever be turned away from treatment.

But if we only had a channel on our border the problem wouldn't be as bad.

The problem in this country is that no one wants to call out the Mexican government and make them accountable for their people. A universal healthcare system is just another increase into the American taxpayer funded social net that the Mexican government should be paying.

Originally posted by budski


Edit to add - we also have a huge problem with illegal immigration - and I would suggest that it's more serious, because we are a much smaller country - think economies of scale...

[edit on 22/5/2008 by budski]

We have about 15-20 million illegal immigrants in this country, many in the southwestern states. They might "do the jobs that Americans won't do" but they get also don't get to pay income and social security taxes and they do send a ton of money back to Mexico. The problem here is vastly different than in the UK.

BTW when those 15-20 million illegals have a baby on U.S. soil, the situation gets really complicated.

If there were a universal healthcare system, the flood of illegals would be insurmountable, people that can't afford healthcare in Mexico (which is alot) would run to the U.S. with Mexico's encouragement, there would be no "enforcement", and guess who has to pay for it all?

Originally posted by pepsi78
Well then you don't need public schools I guess.

That is correct. The federal government should not be in the business of schooling either. Leave it up to the states to decide what type of schools they will provide.

Then why not have the individual states run the health sistem also?

If states choose to do so then that is ok. However, if some states choose not to have a state sponsered healthcare system, then that is ok also.

Here is a article for your reading pleasure

Originally posted by whaaa
Hey numbnuts, you think we are not taxed on everything we buy in the US? Are you fu**** blind?

Do you always insult people in a lame attempt to make a point?
What point are you trying to point? What are you babbling about?

I pay his salary.

And that is their job and just like most people with a job, the employer pays some of the medical premiums.

Take a break from the Rush news letter and open your eyes to the real world, whattheory!

Ok, if you take your head out of the sand and stop listening to your extreme liberal propaganda.

Schools out you ****** yahoo!!

You are silly and cannot think for yourself which is why you attempt to insult people instead of expressing your position in way which is understandable. Pathetic!

I wondered when the "liberal" bullplop would come out.

What's liberal about about social justice and making sure the population is as healthy as it can be?

More health = better productivity, andless drains on society as a whole.

Preventive healthcare ensures there are less problems further down the line.

Originally posted by freedomforall
reply to post by budski

 

I would like to know if in the UK you are paying very high taxes. If so, then you are not getting health care for free. You pay for it one way or the other. Sames goes with Canada and many other countries. Sure we pay lots of taxes here in the US but not like other countries. At least that is my understanding in which case please let me know.

From what I've read Americans spend twice the amount on health care (private insurance for Americans vs. taxed amount for Canadians). Here's one link as an example, where they say Americans pay more per capita than anyone else on the planet!
Health care system comparisons

From reading other articles, the current U.S. system is highly inefficient with all of the huge amounts of money made by insurance and drug companies.

In Canada we determined that health care for everyone is a basic human right. Most here and from the sounds of it in the U.S. agree. It's really sounds insane to me that anyone would not want the poor to have free health care. The social costs, like increased poverty and crime are horrible. It makes life worse for everyone.

Greg

Lots of the arguments against a universal health care system seem to be arguing about the cost. I think the reality would be it would cost the vast majority (>99%) of people it would cost much much less.

The real problem with the US health care system is it is inefficient. It inefficient for the individual - having to waste time searching for a plan and trying to figure out what you are going to get. It in efficient because there are lots of companies which all have to replicate the same services. Different parties have wildly different incentives. Some for you to have the most and most sophisticated care most of the time, and the other that you never have any care at all. Then theres always a get out clause - if you get really ill the insurance company has an incentive to not get you care - right when you really need it.

Its inefficient because people have to spend time working out and arguing over what care is going to be given.

Generally theres no incentive for preventative care - some insurance companies have lip service to this but really theres no big incentive.

Universal health care is simple. And you get nice properties like preventative care is in everybodys interest. Its not perfect. In the Uk system you may not get access to the most expensive equipment in the world. But thats not really the point - the point is _everybody_ should have access to 'good' healthcare for free. Thats simple and can be efficient.

Capitalism can still work - if you want vip health care, thats okay, you can pay for that. But for the vast majority of people the universal system works just great, and doesn't cost that much.

I always find it surprising the people who bring up somehow they'll have less in such a system... I mean do they really think they are in the tiny less than 1% who may pay a bit more.

I also find it surprising in a country which has almost fundamentalist Christian underpinnings that being good to your fellow man, would mean every Christian (85% of Americans I believe) would be completely behind the idea. Apparently not - as when it comes to health and your fellow man woman or child, all bets are off.

But anyway my main point would be

1) From a moral point of view it makes sense (help you fellow human being)
2) From a capitalist point of view it makes sense (its much more efficient)

If neither/both ideas don't float your boat, then I guess you could only be an immoral, anti-capitalist. And what could be more un-American than that

If the current system wasn't a system of disease management (diseases the corporations create for profit and the governments blessings) we wouldn't need any of this. There would be no fear in losing insurance which only offers one method of treatment.

Natural medicine is the way to go. Becoming responsible for our own health concerns rather than depending on a group of profit minded people telling us what is wrong is the only way we can go.

Health costs are easy to increase when one scares another with their health. That method firmly plants tight the psyche into fear. Especially when the white coat executioner does the bidding for that body($$$). The irony of it all is those who we are told to trust are the ones who are either knowingly or unknowingly creating the disease patterns through toxicity and starving the body of nutrients.

More people are finding out how simple it is to maintain the body...
1. stop putting in poisons
2. eat nutrient rich food from nutrient rich soil
3. stay out of the doctors office
4. when symptoms occur, go get lymphatic drainage, acupuncture, cranio/sacral therapy, take herbs and get that immune system kicked up
5. don't listen to the TV
6. rise above fear and realize the power we have for healing from within
7. seek the alternative health practitioners, even if they have no blessings from the state vector of revenue collection aka licensing
8. don't be afraid of ancient methods, current methods, and still be discerning for the profiteers out there -- this is developing our sense of intuitive awareness
9. keep the mind positive and continually re-create negative experiences to good ones, powerful insights and lessons are found here
10. above all, stay in the frequency of love and conscious awareness

Namaste,

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
More people are finding out how simple it is to maintain the body...
1. stop putting in poisons
2. eat nutrient rich food from nutrient rich soil
3. stay out of the doctors office
4. when symptoms occur, go get lymphatic drainage, acupuncture, cranio/sacral therapy, take herbs and get that immune system kicked up
5. don't listen to the TV
6. rise above fear and realize the power we have for healing from within
7. seek the alternative health practitioners, even if they have no blessings from the state vector of revenue collection aka licensing
8. don't be afraid of ancient methods, current methods, and still be discerning for the profiteers out there -- this is developing our sense of intuitive awareness
9. keep the mind positive and continually re-create negative experiences to good ones, powerful insights and lessons are found here
10. above all, stay in the frequency of love and conscious awareness
Namaste,

Good suggestions.... doesn't help though if you get hit by a bus and need surgery, saw off a finger, get some nasty infectious disease, etc. It has it's place but it's not the final answer.

Originally posted by budski
Whilst the National Insurance system isn't perfect, it has given every citizen the right to free medical treatment - although waiting times remain a problem.

What so many don't stop to think about those 'long' waiting times,...there is no wait if one doesn't have the coverage. In that light, I wouldn't mind waiting...just as long as I could get the care.

Which is worse, the waiting time or just doing without care completely?

reply to post by wutone


we have something called uncontrolled immagration,
health tourists and people who wouldnt lift a finger in their lifetime to support them selves.

our Tax's pays for them aswell sadly and we have to live with that fact.
also because a percentage take advantage of a system doesnt make it flawed for the rest of us.

untill of course new labour do something about or conservitives if they are voted in.

also WhatTheory waiting for your answers to my questions

reply to post by bodrul


Hey bodrul - nice to see you

You're right of course.

Despite the flaws of our healthcare system, it's still better that the ludicrous, corporate/government sponsored rip off that exists elsewhere.

For some reason though, some people think that social healthcare is communism.


I can only think that they don't know what communism is.

I can give them a clue - it ain't what joe McCarthy said it is.

reply to post by budski


thats because they live a shelterd life where they are taught anything they dont understand is Evil and no no.

and anything in the intrests of the public has to be comuniist

most shocking thing i have seen is the way some people seem to look down on their own country men and women.

just found a Funny thing looks like the US had the first NHS like service
and it was way before (you got it Communism)

The marine hospital fund was administered by the Treasury Department and financed through a monthly deduction from the wages of the seamen. Medical care was provided through contracts with existing hospitals and, increasingly as time went on, through the construction of new hospitals for this purpose.

lhncbc.nlm.nih.gov...

not exactly a true hospital in sense as it was more political but close enough

reply to post by bodrul


Good find - and it's true that it's a limited form of social healthcare.

I sometimes think that some of our US compatriots lack a social conscience, but it's also true that it's not confined to them.

Looking after each other isn't communism - it's simple humanity.