More Americans Fear Losing Their Health Insurance Than Being in a Terrorist Attack

More Americans Fear Losing Their Health Insurance Than Being in a Terrorist Attack

www.alternet.org

If health insurance were cheap, we could all buy it. If universal health care could get 60 votes in the Senate, we'd all have it. But these two imperatives -- the need to control costs and the need to attract the 60 Senate votes required to overcome a filibuster -- point in opposite directions. This is the central paradox of health reform.

The most intractable policy problem is not, fundamentally, the 47 million uninsured or the fact that insurers have a business model right out of Dickens. It's cost. In 2006, the average family policy cost $13,600. This is why one out of six Americans are uninsured; they can't afford the premiums. An October 2007 Kaiser Family Foundation poll found that more Americans were "very worried" about being priced out of their health insurance than feared losing their job, their house, or being in a terrorist attack. And with good reason: Premiums have gone up 98 percent since 2000. Wages have not.

(visit the link for the full news article)

Ok, I live in the UK and that may cloud my view a little, even though our healthcare system is flawed, it's still free.

I am always amazed that the alleged richest nation on the planet (not really true, but hey) allows vast corporations to dictate to citizens whether or not they can have treatment after they have paid for their insurance, and that bush could veto child healthcare whilst spending trillions on a war nobody wanted.

It seems to me to be a case of misplaced priorities - but isn't bush known for looking after his corporate cronies?

That's where the real problem may lie - the conspiracy that is corporate america, where the rich fleece the poor at every opportunity.

www.alternet.org
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by budski


I'm with you on this. There's no excuse, besides corporate control of government, that this can't happen here in the US. Not only does the current system bleed consumers dry for "coverage" that often doesn't include everything they need, it also handicaps business--GM alone spends more than $2000 from the sale of each and every vehicle they produce just to pay health care for current and past employees. This handicap renders US businesses unable to fully compete on the global stage by greatly increasing their overhead (one of many reasons given for their abandonment of the American worker). If we had single-payer healthcare, and a more protectionist policy towards manufacturing, it would go a long way toward bringing back good jobs at living wages and saving our economy from the trash-heap of history.

Unfortunately too many people buy the conservative line of "socialized medicine" and how it would lead to "uncontrollable big government" (which we already have and always will) and how people without health care and living wages don't deserve them because they're all "fat and lazy" or "welfare queens". Their solution is always that the poor should have planned better, and if it's too late tough beans; or they should go back to school, spend thouands of dollars they don't have to get a degree in a field that may not even exist by the time they're done, etc. etc.

Basically a lot of Americans still believe if you're poor, it doesn't matter how hard you actually work, it's your own damn fault and the double whammy of inflation in the markets and downward trends in wages have nothing to do with it. Demonstrably false, but hey, we're taught to hate the poor here, and as long as I've got mine, screw everyone else, right?

Pretty sickening when you think about it.

Yep. The US is the last remaining 1st world nation to not have free health care.
You can thank the cold war for that though... the citizens of the US were scared into believing that government funded anything is just plain wrong. They were so afraid of communism, that they didn't even stop to realize health care has nothing to do with it.

So afraid of social systems, they turned their backs on fellow dying Americans.


That fear is still present... for some reason. There are still Americans who believe universal health care is "communism".... yet they never stop to ask themselves why they think that... or stop to ask the people who told them.

It's a ridiculous superstition they've got themselves locked into that's costing them lives.


As a Canadian, I flat out refuse to travel through the states now.
I've never known the US to be a safe place, especially for anyone coming in from outside the country... and on top of that, if some half educated yank were to pick a fight with me... how am I supposed to get medical help afterward?

Quite frankly, it makes me wonder why any of you Americans are afraid of terrorists at all... when the biggest threat comes from the poor guy standing next to you with a knife in his hands and his eye on your wallet.

How you manage to allow this kind of gross mistreatment of your own citizens is beyond me... heaven forbid any of your tax money should be used on you! No... the government needs that money for their war... so they can send your son to get killed.

Thank the sweet circumstances that I wound up in Canada... especially now with the U.S's economy failing, and the world turning it's back on them.

That makes sense. Both situations are brought on by Republicans.

Originally posted by johnsky
Yep. The US is the last remaining 1st world nation to not have free health care.
You can thank the cold war for that though... the citizens of the US were scared into believing that government funded anything is just plain wrong. They were so afraid of communism, that they didn't even stop to realize health care has nothing to do with it.

So afraid of social systems, they turned their backs on fellow dying Americans.

Sad but oh, so true.

That fear is still present... for some reason. There are still Americans who believe universal health care is "communism".... yet they never stop to ask themselves why they think that... or stop to ask the people who told them.

It's a ridiculous superstition they've got themselves locked into that's costing them lives.

I think a number of those who still resist such needed change do so because they secretly have a sociopathic desire for the poor to just crawl away and die.

As a Canadian, I flat out refuse to travel through the states now.
I've never known the US to be a safe place, especially for anyone coming in from outside the country... and on top of that, if some half educated yank were to pick a fight with me... how am I supposed to get medical help afterward?

It's not TOO bad, YET. But, cross the St. Lawrence from Detroit and people don't even bother locking their doors half the time. What does that tell you about "safety" in America?

Quite frankly, it makes me wonder why any of you Americans are afraid of terrorists at all... when the biggest threat comes from the poor guy standing next to you with a knife in his hands and his eye on your wallet.

And that guy will eventually be fed whole into the for-profit US Prison System. There's a need to create problems so mega-corps can profit from the solutions.

How you manage to allow this kind of gross mistreatment of your own citizens is beyond me... heaven forbid any of your tax money should be used on you! No... the government needs that money for their war... so they can send your son to get killed.

There are those who would argue (wrongly in my opinion) that taxes are inherently bad, the government is too big, and that there shouldn't even BE a tax system in place regardless of how the money is spent. Personally I believe in civilization, and I accept that a certain amount of government is necessary to have that civilization. But there's a whole lot who hate government so much they will do all in their power to destroy it. Bush is part of such a group.

Thank the sweet circumstances that I wound up in Canada... especially now with the U.S's economy failing, and the world turning it's back on them.

I'm one of the ones in the trenches trying to fix things, but it's hard. So many political nihilists see no point to politics at all, both sides serve the same masters, etc. etc. I believe it is possible to re-take the political system back for the People, but it's hard work that requires dedication and cutting through the crap. This year's election should be very interesting.

I should add that I AM one of the 47 Million+ Americans without health care. My job does not offer it for my current position (been waiting for some time now on my bid for full-time with benefits) and privately-purchased plans are prohibitively expensive with my current income. Luckily I am healthy and do my best to stay that way: exercise, walk a lot (living in a big city helps), and eat garbage-free foods as much as possible (I fully believe the amount of chemically-added crap in food is responsible for at least 50% of the health problems in this country, including a good portion of the obesity epidemic).

But when I did have insurance in my previous job it was still expensive, even though my employer was paying a good portion of it.

I would gladly have paid an extra $500-$1000 a year in federal taxes for single-payer health care covering everything and never have to worry about it again rather than paying almost $4000 combined between myself and my employer for coverage that's barely worth the paper the policy was printed on--and that was for a healthy, single non-smoker with no dependents.

Imagine how much more cash the average American family would have to spend, invest, etc. if it wasn't being thrown away on insurance!

[edit on 5/21/2008 by The Nighthawk]

Yeah it is very sad that Amerika is like this.

I really would not mind paying extra in taxes if we had universal healthcare. I would be glad to know that if something happened I would not have to worry about my insurance covering me. It would also make me happy knowing that everyone else gets healthcare too.

Why do people oppose a universal healthcare system? Are Amerikans really that selfish that we don't want to pay extra taxes for everyone to have healthcare?

Whilst the National Insurance system isn't perfect, it has given every citizen the right to free medical treatment - although waiting times remain a problem.

I suppose in some respects, it could be seen as a form of socialism, due to the different levels paid by different people - it spreads the wealth as it were.

It also says a lot about the UK that very few complain about having to pay NI, and the benefits it brings.

Too many times I hear people saying sod the poor - mostly our US members - "if they want medical cover let them get a better job" as if that was the easiest thing in the world.

This seems to me, to be an incredibly selfish attitude on a par with "let them eat cake"

It says something that the US's alleged worst enemy, Iran, has a better social healthcare system

reply to post by budski


How bad are the wait times. I hear that but I never get the reality. How long are the wait times and if there is an emergency is there a wait time?

Wasn't Clinton proposing that if we refuse to sign up for insurance, it would be automatically deducted from our paychecks? I don't trust the medical establishment one bit, and would only go to a hospital if it was an obvious need. Why should I be forced into paying for insurance? I can see the benefits, but if I die because they won't treat me, at least I lived an enjoyable and thoughtful life.

As far as being more afraid of losing insurance than a terrorist attack:
Since I don't have insurance anyway, and since the real terrorists are the ones in our governments, and since I have come to terms with death and its natural function in the universe, the only thing I am afraid of LIVING under OPPRESSION and TYRANNY. And since I already am, I'm not really afraid of it, just sick of it. Perhaps the hospital can charge me $900 and give me a prescription for this sickness...

edit: for spelling

[edit on 21-5-2008 by Ionized]

Originally posted by johnsky
The US is the last remaining 1st world nation to not have free health care.

And thank goodness this is so. If you think healthcare is expensive now, just wait until its free.
Secondly, it's not the governments business to provide you with healthcare. Where in our Constitution does it say this? I for one, should not have to pay for your healthcare.

Originally posted by budski
I am always amazed that the alleged richest nation on the planet (not really true, but hey) allows vast corporations to dictate to citizens whether or not they can have treatment after they have paid for their insurance

Sorry, this is not how it works. The place where you work has nothing to do with what treatments you are allowed to have.

and that bush could veto child healthcare whilst spending trillions on a war nobody wanted.

Do you know the details or just spewing something you read?
What Bush vetoed would have expanded the program to also include adults which is not what the program is supposed to do. The program still covers children but not their parents.

[edit on 21-5-2008 by WhatTheory]

Originally posted by budski
Whilst the National Insurance system isn't perfect, it has given every citizen the right to free medical treatment - although waiting times remain a problem.

I suppose in some respects, it could be seen as a form of socialism, due to the different levels paid by different people - it spreads the wealth as it were.

It is a form a socialism, but as a socialist I don't have a problem with that. No system is perfect, and none ever will be. There is no such thing as Utopia. But, what we have in America now is rotten to the core--unrestrained, predatory capitalism that destroys the very people who feed it. We honestly have it set up here so that problems are either created or exacerbated just so someone with money and connections can get even more money from it.

Example: The justice system.

Part of the reason so many drugs are illegal (aside from the vast industry that could be created overnight from marijuana alone, putting many traditional industries out of business with renewable resources) is that the illegality of drugs feeds our huge, corrupt, and largely for-profit prison system. The number of privatized prisons in the US is climbing constantly, and to fill those prisons and make more money for their owners, more restrictions are placed on freedoms and more violations have harder penalties. Thus, the private companies that own and/or run the prisons make a fortune in taxpayer money because they're paid by the government to do the job, instead of paying government workers outright. Problem? Crime. Solution? Privatized prisons. Companies profit while people rot over a stupid plant.

It's essentially already a form of socialism, except it's the Corporations, not the People, who benefit from taxpayer dollars.

It also says a lot about the UK that very few complain about having to pay NI, and the benefits it brings.

You guys, by and large, grew up. We've regressed back to the Terrible Twos.

Too many times I hear people saying sod the poor - mostly our US members - "if they want medical cover let them get a better job" as if that was the easiest thing in the world.

This seems to me, to be an incredibly selfish attitude on a par with "let them eat cake".

They ARE incredibly selfish. Everything in our "culture" tells us to be so. Our Founding Fathers were, by and large, wealthy businessmen whose primary beef was paying taxes to a King in another land. Oh, I'm sure they really did believe in freedom for the common man--but even in their day the Constitutional rights we take for granted now were very different; for example they only wanted landowners to be able to vote. They were selfish then, and we are selfish now. It's on TV, it's in magazines, it's everywhere--Buy this, buy that, you're scum if you can't afford it, blah blah.

It says something that the US's alleged worst enemy, Iran, has a better social healthcare system

It sure does.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by budski
I am always amazed that the alleged richest nation on the planet (not really true, but hey) allows vast corporations to dictate to citizens whether or not they can have treatment after they have paid for their insurance

Sorry, this is not how it works. The place where you work has nothing to do with what treatments you are allowed to have.

I don't think he's talking about your employer, but rather the insurance company itself. And yes, your employer does have control over what gets covered, because they're the ones who decide which policies to offer to their employees, and to keep costs down they usually choose the cheapest they can find regardless of actual coverage.

In my last job I worked there over four years and we changed insurance companies and policies every single year as my employer would dump one and get a new one at an "introductory rate" for a year, then dump that one the next year in the same way. We kept bouncing between the same two companies like a tennis ball. It made things very hard for those with conditions requiring regular treatment, especially my buddy with a disabled son.

I dont know about you guys but I pay over $700 a month in health insurance and to top it off I just got the news I owe the IRS almost $30k in taxes this year. Last year was a good year but this year is very bad compliments of the economy. My take is the government works for me. Why should they get healthcare on my dime if Im struggling to afford my own. I should get the same healthcare they have ..hell we all should thats like if I pay for healthcare for all my employees which I do pay part of but not for any for myself. WTF is that.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by johnsky
The US is the last remaining 1st world nation to not have free health care.

And thank goodness this is so. If you think healthcare is expensive now, just wait until its free.

Secondly, it's not the governments business to provide you with healthcare. Where in our Constitution does it say this?

The Constitution DOES specifically state we have a right to be secure in our persons, and a general right to free speech, privacy, right to bear arms, etc. It's not the government's business whether I want to smoke a damn plant in my own living room but if I got caught doing it I'd go to jail. What's your point?

I for one, should not have to pay for your healthcare.

You're paying for your own as well. That's the point, everyone gets equal benefits. Is that not an American principle? Equal rights under the law? Why should health care not be added to this? Why be so selfish?

Originally posted by The Nighthawk

What don't you understand?
How do you think the government will pay for this? By raising your taxes even further and it will have to be by a large amount. Why on Earth would you want the government to run healthcare anyway? What government program do you know of that is run efficiently and properly? Things would just get worse once the government gets involved.

The Constitution DOES specifically state we have a right to be secure in our persons

So what? That does not mean to provide you with healthcare. Do you also want the government to purchase you a car and a house.

You're paying for your own as well.

Yeah, and I don't want to pay for yours. I work hard for my money and I want to keep it thank you.

Originally posted by The Nighthawk
Is that not an American principle? Equal rights under the law? Why should health care not be added to this? Why be so selfish?

Umm....healthcare is not a right.
What is selfish is wanting someone else's hard earned money and have it given to you.

reply to post by mybigunit


The wait times are for routine operations, to see specialists and so forth.

Patients can be fast tracked through the system in some cases - like if a young person has a potentially life threatening illness.

There is no waiting for emergency services - if you call an ambulance, you are taken straight in for assessment and treatment.
If you go to A&E (accident and emergency) under your own steam, you have to queue.

________________________________________________________________

As far as WhatTheory goes, I'm just going to ignore him.
I don't wanna feed the troll - in every thread he takes up a contrary position and just posts to get a rise out of people, and I'm not buying into it.



[edit on 21/5/2008 by budski]