More Americans Fear Losing Their Health Insurance Than Being in a Terrorist Attack

reply to post by WhatTheory

Housing market, credit crunch, worthless currency, corruption, bad laws, more money out of peoples pockets, corporate control of government, bad economics (especially the "drip down" joke), less freedom, less choice, higher prices of consumer goods such as petrol and food.

I could go on - but the point is that the consumer has little say in what they can buy, because the corporations control what they buy.

BTW the british free education system has produced some of the smartest people around.
It's certainly better than paying tens of thousands for college, which only the wealthy can afford.

Bushes new policy: all kids left behind - unless they have rich parents.

reply to post by WhatTheory


WhatTheory may i ask you a few questions?
after reading some of your replies to other members i have noticed the trend that you seem to ignore most of what others say.

i am not american and like bud from england so we have the NHS
it may not be top of the class but it saves lives.
and doesnt mean the pooriest of the people are left out to dry.

here are the questions

why do you think a Public health service is a bad thing?

do you look down on your american counterparts that dont or barely make enough to feed them selves and their familes?
and pay the bills

wouldnt a health system benniffit the US? if millions of people are so scared isnt this in the intrest of your country to ensure that the population is safe?

or is this security only for those that are top of the chain earning more then those that are at the bottom?

the United states sends billions in AID to the middle east and south asia and east asia (billions in military aid to Israel, Jordan, egypt and so on)

now if the united states can afford to arm these countries with your Tax money so easily why is it so hard to put that money into saving lives in your country?

reply to post by budski


I wasn't pointing any finger at you, that's just where I got the quote from.

I know it's the headline and not your words.

I was just commenting on the headline.

Nationalizing healthcare is a form of socialism and should not be tolerated in the U.S.

Then what do you call your postal service, your public libraries, the fire departament, your police departament, your schools.They are social programs part of the public service right? They are socialist.You have socialism in the US then



You have cancer and no family members left, you are alone, you work but
your sallary can't cover your medication, you can't cover your insurance.How do you survive?

You simply want to contribue , you're a hard working man but you have an unhappy car accident and you lose your legs, because you can't work you can't pay the insurance company, what do you do if you get sick?


Would you say then that health care is wrong in those situations?

What if your police departament was owned by an insurance company? and you would have to pay the company so the police could come and help and protect you when you dial 911.
The police departament like healthcare are crucial in asuring your safety.
Your life depends on them, no police in life threatening situations then you have a good chance to die, no money to pay the medical insurace company then again you die if you are suffering from something that is threatening your life.

Would you like your schools ran by the insurance company?
For 100 dolars you get to learn history, if you have a better plan you can learn math too? the complete plan that willl cover you includes math , geography, history, science, drama, and even a class where you will learn to play music on real instruments.
Remember if you say no then you're a socialist because all of this services are part of the public service.

Se how dumb this is? Who the hell needs an insurance company to tell your doctor what to do and what to prescribe, who do you trust more, your doctor the people from the insurance company.





[edit on 21-5-2008 by pepsi78]

reply to post by budski


I would like to know if in the UK you are paying very high taxes. If so, then you are not getting health care for free. You pay for it one way or the other. Sames goes with Canada and many other countries. Sure we pay lots of taxes here in the US but not like other countries. At least that is my understanding in which case please let me know.

Originally posted by budski
Housing market, credit crunch, worthless currency, corruption, bad laws, more money out of peoples pockets, corporate control of government, bad economics (especially the "drip down" joke), less freedom, less choice, higher prices of consumer goods such as petrol and food.

I could go on - but the point is that the consumer has little say in what they can buy, because the corporations control what they buy.

This has nothing to do with what consumers have a say in.
Economies of all types go through ups and downs and this is nothing new. Things will stabilize again and American will be stronger for it. Our system is why America has become a superpower and during this long struggle things were not always rosey.

BTW the british free education system has produced some of the smartest people around.

So has America and other education systems from other countries. I never said it was bad.

It's certainly better than paying tens of thousands for college, which only the wealthy can afford.

Is it? I don't think so. I bet if we break down your taxes, it costs you a lot more.
Lastly, its not just for the wealthy. Where do you get your info? In fact, colleges are full of poor and middle class citizens. They get loans and get a education. The rich go to the elite colleges.

reply to post by freedomforall


in prospective its way less then paying for health insurance.
its only a small percentage of the total tax we pay that goes towards health services. also the Tax system is set up on how much one person earns so they arent taxed more then they should be.

www.nhs.uk...

NHS structure

not a bad deal at the end of the day

Originally posted by pepsi78
Then what do you call your postal service, your public libraries, the fire departament, your police departament, your schools.They are social programs part of the public service right? They are socialist.You have socialism in the US then.

Umm....No.
Everything you listed except for the post office is not run by the federal government. These departments are all run by the individual states.
But yes, there is some socialism in the federal government and that is the problem and we don't need any more. Take welfare for example, it's a bloted corrupt system and has done nothing but do more harm than good. So we don't need another one such as universal healthcare.

Originally posted by bodrul
in prospective its way less then paying for health insurance.
its only a small percentage of the total tax we pay that goes towards health services. also the Tax system is set up on how much one person earns so they arent taxed more then they should be.

I did not read your link yet but the problem is its just not this tax. I know all of you in the UK get taxed on almost everything including a TV tax. When you start going down the socialism road, all these little and large taxes start to add up until you bring home little money for yourself.

BTW, I will answer your questions you posted in the previous thread in a little while.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by pepsi78
Then what do you call your postal service, your public libraries, the fire departament, your police departament, your schools.They are social programs part of the public service right? They are socialist.You have socialism in the US then.

Umm....No.
Everything you listed except for the post office is not run by the federal government. These departments are all run by the individual states.
But yes, there is some socialism in the federal government and that is the problem and we don't need any more. Take welfare for example, it's a bloted corrupt system and has done nothing but do more harm than good. So we don't need another one such as universal healthcare.

Well then you don't need public schools I guess.None of what you say make any sence.

Can you imagine being alone in this world , working hard but not being able to buy healt insurance.What if you can't work? the insurance company does not care if you can work but you can't pay because it's not enough to pay the bill, or you can not work at all.Maybe some are not that lucky as you, maybe some grew up in a family with minimal income, with no money to earn to go to colege you can't go up the lather, you stay on your medium income, what happens if you get sick.Do you find it normal to pay 5000 dolars for a broken leg if you do not have insurance?

Everything you listed except for the post office is not run by the federal government. These departments are all run by the individual states.

Then why not have the individual states run the health sistem also?
Ask your self , why is medicine cheaper outside US , why do americans smugle atibiotics from mexico?

If you care that much about values then democracy was not invented by United States, modern democracy comes from England. The UK as a kindom has social health care and promoted democracy first.
Helth care will always be viewd as a public service, there is nothing wrong about a public service It's not comunist or capitalist.

I don't see how healthcare is corupt in any way.

Originally posted by WhatTheory
I did not read your link yet but the problem is its just not this tax. I know all of you in the UK get taxed on almost everything including a TV tax. When you start going down the socialism road, all these little and large taxes start to add up until you bring home little money for yourself.

Hey [snip] you think we are not taxed on everything we buy in the US? [snip]

You like to bandy about the socialism word. Here's one for you Corporate Oligarchy.
Call it whatever you want [snip] I want the same health insurance my congressman gets. It's paid for by all the taxpayers! Why should he get preferential treatment? I pay his salary. Is this "socialism" ???

Take a break from the Rush news letter and open your eyes to the real world, whattheory!



[snip]





[edit on 21-5-2008 by whaaa]

[edit on 21-5-2008 by whaaa]






Mod Edit: Personal comments removed. Please see Terms and Conditions of Use section 2) Behaviour. Thank you - Jak

[edit on 22/5/08 by JAK]

reply to post by whaaa


You're right whaaa... regardless of how irritated you just sounded.

The US, like every other free country, gets taxed on everything. There's little to no difference in the tax system of the US when compared to the rest of the world, except on how the funds are being spent.

In the US, near 50% of the federal budget goes to the current war... not just regular military spending, thats a different budget... but THE current war.

50 freaking percent!


That's insane! So much money going towards funding the death of their own soldiers and the citizens of other countries.

Someone on another thread noted the breakdown of war spending versus the Iraqi population... and noted that you could bribe each individual Iraqi with something like 50,000 US Dollars... EACH PERSON!

When you can buy allegiances with your war budget... what's the point of firing a shot anymore?

Seriously... there are FAR better things that money could be going towards.



All that money is buying you, is anger towards the American people... hence, why USA is the desired target of terrorists at the moment... the rest of the free world is getting along just fine.

Canada, a Neutral country, with an almost identical value system isn't being attacked.

The difference here is... Canada is neutral. They haven't spent billions on killing people overseas. Instead, we spend our funds on our own citizens.

And we're doing pretty darned well for ourselves for it.

Americans have been so frightened over universal health coverage that it will never happen here. I've given up hoping for it in my lifetime; I will pay and pay for less coverage and I hope to drop dead one day and be cremated.

I feel America has been so divided and abused by our media and politicians that we have very little hope of ever again being the great nation I once learned about.

Originally posted by johnsky
The difference here is... Canada is neutral. They haven't spent billions on killing people overseas. Instead, we spend our funds on our own citizens.

The people of Canada have the world's most powerful military to defend them, ours, all at the cost of land for a few radar and airfield installations.

Other than that I pretty much agree with you.

Originally posted by bodrul
reply to post by freedomforall

 

in prospective its way less then paying for health insurance.
its only a small percentage of the total tax we pay that goes towards health services. also the Tax system is set up on how much one person earns so they arent taxed more then they should be.

www.nhs.uk...

NHS structure

not a bad deal at the end of the day

I have no idea how your health care system is or taxes you pay for it but try to put this into perspective.

You guys don't share a border with a horribly corrupt country with a large poor population. (I am American not Canadian to make it more specific)

A universal healthcare system in the U.S. would not only have to care for every American but also have to pay for millions of Mexicans.

You have to realize that the U.S. taxpayer pays for a large portion of Mexico's social net. The poorer people of Mexico are the ones that go to the U.S., the Mexican government encourages it, and the Mexican government doesn't have to worry about a huge chunk of the social safety net. It would get horribly bad if Americans had to pay for a large chunk of Mexican healthcare.

(then again we are already paying for much of this)

The lobbying by special interest groups when it comes to the pork involved with public healthcare will be legendary. The idea of universal health isn't bad on the surface but i don't know if it's possible with the usual corruption and the illegal immigration problem.

reply to post by wutone

In answer to that, we have something called a medical card which shows our NHS number - in theory you are supposed to have one of these before we can get treatment, otherwise there is supposed to be a charge for treatment.

However, we also have the problem of "health tourists" who come to take advantage of the system.

And there lies the problem - the hippocratic oath, and enforcement.

If someone turns up at a hospital emergency room wanting treatment, the doctors are duty bound to treat them.

But we ARE working on it...

We could easily impose draconian laws to deny any helth tourist treatment - but that is not the way we operate, so we have to look for a more humane approach.

Just for clarity, I have known GP's (general practitioners) who have told their receptionists that foreign people who want an appointment have to show entitlement, otherwise no appointment - so in theory they are not breaking their oath.

BUT again - we also have to consider where the vast majority of our nations wealth came from....

Edit to add - we also have a huge problem with illegal immigration - and I would suggest that it's more serious, because we are a much smaller country - think economies of scale...

[edit on 22/5/2008 by budski]

As the Americam people should be...

Terrorism, Al-Qaeda, Osama; it's one big, colorful sideshow to distract John Q. Citizen from the fact that his government still considers him an expendable ATM machine and wouldn't do a damn thing to come to his aid if he were in dying need of it.

I've never understood the American health care system. In Australia health care is run by a government subsidiary and virtually everyone is applicable for state-provided health care coverage.

How can a Democratic nation deny to it's citizens care and aid should they desperately need it? It's completely undemocratic and goes against all the principles America claims to stand for.
Whatever happened to "helping your fellow man" or is it "every man, woman, child and invalid for themselves"?

It's shocking.

Why should be people who cannot financially afford health care insurance and need therapeutic care be denied it just because they don't fit into the right income bracket?

It's funny how those most in need, who physically/socially don't have the ability to work and provide cover for themselves are treated like dirt, while the rich, upper and middle classes who probably won't ever need healthcare in their lives are virtually guaranteed it.
The pitfalls of capitalism people; rich get richer and healthier, poor get poorer and die.
There's no compromise.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


The problem is that people have been programmed to believe that capitalism is the only system that works, when quite clearly it doesn't, unless you're one of the tiny minority who manages to get rich by manipulating the system.

It's clear to see from this thread alone that some people still think capitalism is a great and wonderful thing, but as you said, all that happens is that we have returned to the days of serfs and squires - just in a more complex form.

There's also the cold war holdover that comes into play where people are convinved that communism is the sum of all evil.

Only problem is, communism has never been practiced.
Marxism, yes - communism, no.

There would be resources and social justice for everyone, if the very few were not so obsessed with getting even richer than they already are.

Money truly is the root of all evil that happens in the world today.

Originally posted by WhatTheory

The INS. They used to be pretty savvy about enforcing immigration laws

Again, as you stated, "used to be". Government just cannot implement and maintain an efficient program.

So the solution is a privately run organization to keep illegals out? Are you crazy? The same corporations that would implement such a programs (halfassedly on purpose) would be tied to the same corporations that benefit from lowering wages cause by illegal immigration. Private companies have no incentive to help drive up wages and I bet you unless something drastic happens real wages will never catch up to the level they used to be in the US.

reply to post by Merle8


Private companies have no duty to anything except themselves and their shareholders - this is one of the reason why health insurance is so expensive.

They are there to make a profit, and are accountable to no-one.