What happened to the sanctity of marriage?

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Do you think anok is suggesting that freedom can only exist within the realm of free love, that married people are not free? I feel freer at home with my husband than anywhere else. I am free to totally be myself, let down my guard and relax. He feels the same our home is our sanctuary from the world. Tell me what freedoms am I being denied? To have sex with everyone I meet or desire? That is not what defines freedom for me.

Personally I’m not so sure about “the how wonderful it would be if we would love everyone.” I think I’ll take a pass. There are just too many twisted types with God knows what freely spreading it all around along with their love.

I do not see sexual promiscuity as the road to freedom. I see it creating as many if not more problems that some of you ascribe to marriage. If you are under the impression that marriage is outdated, old fashion and a complete waste of time then a marriage with you would be just that. Just don't assume your misconceptions of marriage apply to all. No one likes to be so generalized.

Be safe with yourself in all relationships a few bad choices can make for a lifetime of misery.

Originally posted by Morningglory
reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

 

Do you think anok is suggesting that freedom can only exist within the realm of free love, that married people are not free?

No I don't think he is. I think he was suggesting that polygamy is in our genes, and so it's more natural, and that marriage is an institution that attempts to discipline our natural tendencies. I don't think he was implying that makes marriage wrong or unsatisfying. I do think he was implying free-love is a better way of being in general (for most but not all). But I also think he believes in the freedom for us to choose which one we want for ourselves. So no, I don't think he was saying married people are not free, perhaps he suggested it was their feelings of not feeling free that lead said person to break out of the marriage though...

this is imho of course.

I feel freer at home with my husband than anywhere else. am free to totally be myself, let down my guard and relax. He feels the same our home is our sanctuary from the world.

That's absolutely great! Seriously I feel that's a big life accomplishment!

Tell me what freedoms am I being denied? To have sex with everyone I meet or desire? That is not what defines freedom for me.

That's exactly it right there. Freedom is the ability for one to choose how they define it

I do not see sexual promiscuity as the road to freedom.

Neither do I. Nor do I think Anok was saying that specifically. Again it comes down to the freedom to decide what that road is. For some "sexual promiscuity" is just one avenue of many in their free lives.

If you are under the impression that marriage is outdated, old fashion and a complete waste of time then a marriage with you would be just that. Just don't assume your misconceptions of marriage apply to all. No one likes to be so generalized.

I don't think it's a complete waste of time or wrong. And please try to understand there is a difference between marriage and a life-long monogamous relationship. What is old and outdated imho is the former. I see nothing wrong, and everything right (if that's what you desire) with a committed monogamous relationship. I thought I had conveyed that with some of my posts, guess I did a bad job. Pleas also understand, with the negative things you just attributed to "promiscuous sex" and "free-love" etc, you yourself have generalized them, no? I guess we both have generalized with our wording? Maybe not with our intentions?

Be safe with yourself in all relationships a few bad choices can make for a lifetime of misery.

That's one of the generalizations. People that are not promiscuous and free-loving, assume all people that are like that don't even know what STDs are and don't take safety precautions like condemns, birth control, etc... Some sure. But that could be said for any sexual lifestyle. You can be free-loving and keep safety in mind...by taking the same safety precautions as everyone else. And plenty living that lifestyle do.

[edit on 033131p://14u54 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy
That's one of the generalizations. People that are not promiscuous and free-loving, assume all people that are like that don't even know what STDs are and don't take safety precautions like condemns, birth control, etc... Some sure. But that could be said for any sexual lifestyle. You can be free-loving and keep safety in mind...by taking the same safety precautions as everyone else. And plenty living that lifestyle do.

I think what she meant by lifetime of misery as that marriage gives people a piece of mind and ruining that for a quick 'fix' wont help you in life.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

Good points made on anok's post. I do think you have me wrong here. The only thing I attributed to promiscuous free sex was that it can bring with it the same problems one finds in marriages.

My statements I made concerning the free spreading of STD's applies to a good deal of people I have met in all types of relationships who find themselves in that situation. Imo, it seems I hear such things far to frequently and am under the impression that there is a good majority of people out there that are being irresponsible, the chances of finding an honorable person to experience free love with has got to be a real challenge. I'm sorry but today’s society does not fill me with trust enough to gamble in such a way. I am not implying all victims of STD's are promiscuous at all sadly spouses bring it home.

I actually had TheRiverGoddess, TroyB and TheRooster's posts in mind when I made the remark about being safe and making good choices. Their choices led to heartache and disappointment beyond compare. I said "in all relationships" meaning people whether heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or free lovers can all be equally hurt when bad choices in mates/partners are made. We all feel hurt and pain the same regardless of sexual preferences.

You seem to be happy with your choices. I am for anyone that can find love and closeness in whatever union that suits their needs, not necessarily a man/woman monogamous conventional marriage. I just felt a choice in favor of conventional monogamy is often just that, a choice, and not a need to conform to societies ideals.

If you knew us you would laugh at the idea that we would worry or care about all the bs that society tries to impose on us all. We were once wild, rebellious youths, now were just older. Enjoyed your input on the thread.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


In full respect, I am sad for you. I am not ignorant. I rememeber when kids weren´t bisexual and then all of the sudden almost ALL of my friends and kids younger BECAME bisexual. It is not for real its a rebellion. I´m sure you have alot of morals, but most bisexuals do to compensate for this become environmentalists or join the Tori Amos club agains rape etc or something, its about getting some kicks, but still being able to say, well looks how moral I am otherwise. I see my friends going downhill and they have tried to pull me into this lifestyle. If half the kids weren´t bisexual in the 80´s why are they now?Its a fad. It was a choice that has been happening and it makes it less likely for real families to develop. Most of the bisexuals I know have been sexually abused or some other traumatic thing, they suffer bipolar and also borderline personality. I'm not saying that you do, but think about the bisexuals you know...maybe it is a problem? I am saying this because of my experiances. I have seen it first hand ruin families and friends, so please don't judge me.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Since I didn't really expound on my comment I wouldn't make assumptions or pass judgments. Obviously you have a problem with Christians but of course that's also an assumption.

You say one thing but I'll likely bet you do another. Women are notorious for doing that.

reply to post by rubyeyes


This is a very interesting take on this problem! Definitely one I didn't think of.

When you are talking about younger people being more open to the ideas of bisexuality, are you referring to males and females? I've noticed that almost all young females are very open to the idea, but males on the other hand are a different story.

I'm not sure why that is, but I think it has to do more with the fact that young girls will do some crazy things for attention. EXAMPLE: young girls will make out with each other in front of an entire party, strip naked and dance on tables or get on camera and have sex with each other. Girls Gone Wild is a perfect example of this. I don't see many guy doing the same.

reply to post by rubyeyes

your are most definitely right, traumatic experiences manifest themselves onto sexuality. and yes I dont know why but women from preteen age are sort of open to bi-sexuality and such experiments I dont know if its a rebellion or media trend thing, its certainly not natural, no offense but God or nature didn't intend for it to happen. Although I do understand since im a guy why some turn into lesbians but they probably change like that due to a horrible experience and not for the same reason as guys liking women or innate attraction.

reply to post by DL2000


Yes, I know its more rare in boys at least over the age of 30 but I have a lot of friends and peers that are in the early 20´s and its become big for boys to be bisexual too in that age range, at least where I live. Its the whole free love thing run rampant and I don´t think parents know so much that its going on with teens too...but I have witnessed it. All for the sake of sex and hooking up, there are no limits anymore. And its sometimes called "on the downlow'" when men do it, straight men. The whole idea is to get as much sex as possible at anytime and any place it seems. Its like some sex addiction drug was slipped in the water, I dunno, every one I know is turning nympho. And things like "Girls gone wild" commercials do encourage this, but not only do men encourage girls to do it, becuase its "hot" but other girls encourge other girls to do it to fit in, to "be openminded" to have fun, its a pleasure trip that goes sour in my opinion. Are all these girls gonna be proud of it when they are old and have children and grandchildren? Do they want this to continue? People like Angelina Jolie are another bad influence that leads not just teens but young women that think they need to be this way to hot for guys to do this! I dunno, sorry to rant. I'm sad about this.

reply to post by DuneKnight


I honestly believe that most girls and women that do this are doing for one of tow reasons. Either A) they are using this "exciting" rebel way to get excitment and escape, just like a drug or B) they really feel low self esteem and are convinced by popular culture that this is the way to be "sexy" because so many guys say they like two girls together. In any case its sad to me.

reply to post by rubyeyes


the issue you are talking about was extensively discussed in this thread and let me tell you that you are not alone in this many guys feel the same way:
attention women

It is very simple.

People have no sense of responsibility, have the idea that they don't have to work hard for anything, and that they are entitled to "happiness".

To have a religious belief is to be labeled as being superstitious, uneducated, and generally not very "with it".

Don't you know, that "anything goes".

Disposable relationships are perfect for a disposable society, no?

What if your spouse becomes disabled, unable to care for themselves, or just becomes O L D ??? You shouldn't be forced to change their diapers, bathe them, dress them, etc, should you?

Look at the marriage "vows" most people take today. Nothing about "In sickness and in health" or "In good times and in bad".

It's a;; about whatever feels good now, isn't it?

I've been married 30 years, my wife is a quadraplegic, and I love her more today than I did when we married. Too bad most people will never be allowed to experience just how adversity can pull you even closer, over time.

Yes, I've wiped her butt after bowel movements. It isn't fun, but that's part of the responsibility I agreed to when we got married. I wouldn't trade her for anything on this earth. We live a full, rich life, we have travelled all over the world, moved six times during my career, and we have a very active social life.

Yes, it's too bad that so many people out there quit at the first sign of difficulty. They were raised to believe that they are "entitled", and learned nothing about comittment and responsibility. Oh well, that is their loss.

reply to post by OldMedic

you are correct and thanks for saying that, marriage is about finding that special someone who will support you during those harsh times when you are really vulnerable and helpless.



[edit on 14-5-2008 by DuneKnight]

Originally posted by rubyeyes
so please don't judge me.

Why?

That's exactly what you are doing.

Well, I have to be honest here. I have never in my whole life seen two straight guys start making out in person. I have been to a ton of parties and taken trips to places with reputations for getting wild like Cabo San Lucas and Lake Havsu. Not once have I seen straight guys make out with each other. It's always the girls. These are my first hand experiences. With that said, I wouldn't be at all surprised if bisexuality among younger people, male and female, is becoming more popular. "I" just haven't experienced it among guys.

Also, I don't think bisexuality in any way, shape or form is a problem. I don't think homosexuality is, and I don't think having giant orgies with a hundred people is a problem either. I wouldn't necessarily want to be involved, but if it isn't hurting anyone, why even care what others are doing?

And, trust me, I am a straight guy, and it hasn't taken me to become bisexual to have a LOT of sex.

reply to post by ANOK


There are animals in the wild that mate for life and are monogomous... those animals must have learned it from the church huh
The large numbers of people getting divoriced leave me to believe they either 1) didnt realize what kind of responsibility and hard work have to go into having a good marriage. 2) Rushed into their marriage.

Two huge things are being overlooked here by a few:

1)Homosexuality (including Bisexuality), is almost always genetic. Which means natural. Which means, if you believe in a Creator, he intended it (unless you think it was a mess-up).

2)If "Bisexuality" is done purely for "attention" "popularity" or "fad" then it is not actually bisexuality, as it is not coming from their actual sexual orientation. It is simply a conscious decision to do something sexual for attention, and nothing more.

If you want to debate this "bisexuality" issue, please at least try and understand what I just said.

Originally posted by DL2000

Also, I don't think bisexuality in any way, shape or form is a problem. I don't think homosexuality is, and I don't think having giant orgies with a hundred people is a problem either. I wouldn't necessarily want to be involved, but if it isn't hurting anyone, why even care what others are doing?

That's a good attitude on all those things. I feel the same.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

so how does that work? one day you are attracted to guys the next you are into girls, depending on your mood. or are you non-gender specific and like the whole human species in general.

No, I made sure to say things like "most", or "some", "maybe not you" etc. I did not say ALL bisexuals or everyone is like this etc etc. I made room for exceptions. I was not targeting you I was speaking in general my opinion. But you came right out and said you didn't respect what I had to say. But I won't argue with you anymore because I see you are younger than me. Maybe someday you will understand my point of view.