The ATS Issues Thread

Is there a point where, even on an "ATS Issues" thread, one member can go too far?

I see this as a great place to let loose, perhaps....air out frustrations even.

Usually, once vented, the issue is resolved. Usually....

Question for the staff...

I've just noticed that my thread count has gone up again now to 17... I've only created five threads in total and was wondering why my thread count keeps going up when I'm not creating anymore than the five... I've asked this question in another thread somewhere but was given an explanation from the staff...

Rgds

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
Question for the staff...

I've just noticed that my thread count has gone up again now to 17... I've only created five threads in total and was wondering why my thread count keeps going up when I'm not creating anymore than the five... I've asked this question in another thread somewhere but was given an explanation from the staff...

Rgds

I see only 5 threads in your profile. Have you used the Complaints/Suggestion function? That counts as a thread but doesn't show up in your profile.

reply to post by AllTiedTogether

In my opinion AllTiedTogether, and in all fairness.. your problem seems to be not so much with ATS itself or the staff, rather the 9/11 forum in particular.

When I first joined this website, I also posted a little in there, needless to say; I stopped posting in the 9/11 forum because I thought that there were some pretty suspicious characters in there. Not naming anyone though.

The best solution for you IMO, and please take my advice.. just stay away completely from the 9/11 forum, this seems to be the crux of your issue.

Kind regards

reply to post by intrepid


Thank you intrepid... I haven't used the complaints/suggestion button but have used the alert button a number of times.... I mentioned it a couple months ago I think and at that point it was around 10... so I've jumped up another seven and have only five threads made.... Just don't want any to come up as being created by me that haven't been.


Rgds


[edit on 24-3-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

reply to post by Majorion


Thanks for the suggestion Majorion... Kind of a defeatist reasoning though. That could keep me out of just about every thread then and not just me. I'm not the only one here going through this and feeling this way.

I believe that SO has made his point and that things may be different and monitored more. I won't go on about this now and believe that enough has been stated for both sides of the issue.

I for one will use the Alert button more as suggested by SO and will watch my choice of words.... as I hope that others will do to keep the game even.

Many thanks to SkepticOverlord for dealing with the issue on a timely basis.

Rgds

I've said all I'm going to say on this issue within this thread at this time. For my feelings on this check my posts of the thread. I don't wish to infuriate the staff by dragging this on with the same points over and over again.

I am concerned about the ability of members to have a thread closed by remaining off topic after being warned by a moderator to stay on topic and refusing to do so.

It would seem to me that the individuals who choose to ignore the Mod's request would be dealt with and the thread would remain open for discussion by those who wish to continue on topic, rather than the thread closed.

By allowing members to decide what threads will be closed by ignoring the Mod and continuing on with behavior which they were warned about is giving them a power over what is to be discussed.

My point/question is why are threads closed instead of the members who choose to not follow the rules not being reprimanded?

This last page of a 10 page thread is the particular thread I am talking about.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by interestedalways

I had the opposite problem. A thread was created to have a go at me by attacking my faith.. the OP was found to be a banned member yet mods refused to close the thread citing that it was a legitimate subject. I left for several months because of it.

Citing this as an example is it fair to say there could be a pattern of unfairness regarding this subject?

From Thread: Why the Chemtrail Conspiracy is Unplausible, and Meteorologically Innacurate
Posted by reconpilot, on March 24, 2009 at 04:46 GMT

reply to post by neformore


That was not off topic by any means , if anything it was the most concise explanation of military application of chem I have posted !

Outrageous !

Mod Edit - In fairness, that was my bad. The post has been restored

[edit on 24/3/09 by neformore]

If you read the page of the thread I linked above and then look at this you may see why I would like to see this addressed.

The above deletion and restoration was this post.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And it was mature of the mod in this case to have restored the post, but again why was the thread in my post above closed by the same mod after removing another post by reconpilot and calling off topic as a reason for the closure when it was other members posting off topic?

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Edit to make clarification. I am linking to two separate threads.



[edit on 26-3-2009 by interestedalways]

reply to post by interestedalways


Appears to have been planned.... At least one of them is part of here, just their way of claiming bragging rights I guess..... Look for this to happen again in the future....

That thread was getting too much activity and the data was indisputable in the OP... that's why it was closed....

Rgds

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
reply to post by interestedalways

 

Appears to have been planned.... At least one of them is part of here, just their way of claiming bragging rights I guess..... Look for this to happen again in the future....

That thread was getting too much activity and the data was indisputable in the OP... that's why it was closed....

Rgds

Good find, AllTied...............

Like this quote in the thread you linked says...............

reply posted on 21-9-2005 @ 03:37 AM by Zaphod58


Hey, some of these threads are really dangerous you know! You want to make sure to have some of us hired guns around for when they start getting a little too rowdy and have to be put in their place. You never know when you might want to take out a hit on a thread

[edit on 26-3-2009 by interestedalways]

reply to post by interestedalways


Well I checked out the T&C and I don't find anything that says a person found violating the T&C will have the thread closed down. It states that a posting ban can happen, or a site ban.

From the T&C

2d.) Forum Gangs: You will not engaged in an organized collaboration with other members to disrupt thread topics or interrupt the flow of normal collaborative discussion.
Doing so will result in removal of your post(s) and immediate termination of your account.

It's obvious there's a gang that forums on these types of threads...


Rgds

reply to post by AllTiedTogether


Yeah, you are right. I have been wanting to address the forum gang issue for awhile but I would have to compile alot of data to "make a case" and frankly have just been too lazy or apathetic, but when it is running amok as much as it has been lately I can only hope that the site owners and mods who care will take a look at what the truth seekers are seeing and address the issue.

It is getting real hard lately to see the forest through the trees.

I have a little bit of faith left that maybe the Admins will take us seriously, we will see..............

Too add an example here is one of the last posts before the thread about the jet fuel I linked in my first post here was closed for off topic responses..............

www.abovetopsecret.com...

For those who don't want to click the link.

Post by DefCon

Guys does this mean its time for a new thread so we can rehash all this again?

If so please forward me the URL as I am going back to sleep...

[edit on 27-3-2009 by interestedalways]

reply to post by interestedalways

Guys does this mean its time for a new thread so we can rehash all this again? If so please forward me the URL as I am going back to sleep...

Talk about obvious and in your face eh? We'll see if the ATS professional staff take this seriously... I hope so...

reply to post by AllTiedTogether


When you start to believe that the conspiracy board that you're a member of is conspiring against you...It's time to step away from ATS for while.

[edit on 27-3-2009 by Chadwickus]

There is no conspiracy here guys.

ATS is a very large site with handful of hardworking volunteer staff members.

We can't be everywhere at once, and we can't all make perfect decisions all the time. That's why there are more than one of us.

Decisions are made as a group, and sometimes things are overturned.

No conspiracy....just human beings doing the best they can.

Originally posted by interestedalways
I am concerned about the ability of members to have a thread closed by remaining off topic after being warned by a moderator to stay on topic and refusing to do so.

As am I.

Closing down an out of control thread has happened many times in the past. It's not an easy decision. It's not a fair outcome. It's not something we take lightly.

But each time our hand is forced in that direction, the underlying issue is typically diffused.

For some inexplicable reason, the chemtrail issue has exploded as a hot-button item in the past few days (or more). It's understandable that a conspiracy item can inspire passionate debate... but when passions push responses across the line far too many times in a thread, it's time to shut it down. A thread that has gotten out of control does no one any good... it looks bad for the members... it looks bad for the topic... it creates ill-will among participants... the topic is lost, the battle never won.

It sucks, yes. But sometimes it's better get out of the fight-pit, brush yourself off, regroup, and try again with more civil tactics. It's a far better alternative than banning people.

Lately I have noticed several groups of people who seem to have an agenda to push here on ATS.

Although I have my friends and foes like everyone else, and sometimes people who share my side of an issue when I wish they didn't, we're all just individuals and we pop up in various threads with various opinions. Most recently I find myself on the opposite side of a heated issue from someone who's been a friend for quite a while.

I also try to always remain mindful of the hundreds or thousands of people who may read any thread because it popped up in a search engine. Back when we still had thread views, I was startled to see that an old thread of mine which had only a dozen or so replies had over 1,000 views.

I think I am not the only person who has realized this, and I think that certain groups of people are using ATS to spread the word of their particular agenda. Every time the current thread is closed down or dies a natural death, a new thread is started on essentially the same topic. Logically, the only reason I can deduce for this is that certain people - or groups of people - want to keep their position and point of view active. These people also aggressively argue with and attempt to shut down people who reply in these threads with the opposing viewpoint.

Obviously I haven't been able to dig through ALL of ATS, but the particular topics I have noticed this in are:

Chemtrails
9-11
UFO "pseudoskepticism" and skepticism

It appears that certain ATS members deliberately keep a thread open at all times which expresses their agenda on these (and possibly other) topics.

Those of us who have become aware of this and have concerns - such as, for example, ATS members who have good reason and experience to express the view that "Chemtrails" are merely contrails and see no need for people to be afraid of nothing, hit these threads when they come up and "deny ignorance," or deny the fueling of ignorance.

Since the thread author(s) are trying to keep their propaganda threads visible for search engine results and desire that the curious "public reader" gets ONLY their point of view, they get quite angry about peoples' efforts to present the opposing point of view. As I see it, this is how threads on "certain topics" always seem to get out of control - and feature the same groups of people "fighting."

Everyone gets warned and reminded of the T&C and the thread either slowly dies a natural death or is closed. Within a few days, a new thread authored by one of the same group presenting only a marginally different "take" on the exact same topic will appear.

So, if we know this, why don't we just leave those threads alone? Because then new members and "public readers" of ATS will see those opinions represented here without challenge, and are much more likely to believe them. Thus ATS would be the vehicle for indoctrination of peope into certain pet theories which some of us believe are pretty ignorant, and false. As ATS members, it is difficult to sit back and allow ATS to be used to promote ignorance instead of denying it.

Yes, people are responsible for their own choices and bla bla bla, but what will the "average" person think if they google "Chupacabra" (just a stupid example) and find the ATS thread which has 5 or more people discussing how Chupa is not only very real, but a government bioweapon which is deliberately being spread all over America and will begin killing people as soon as it is triggered, and no one at all challenging that opinion? Are they not more likely to believe it since not one person has posted to say "this is not true" and provide information which counters this?

So, now perhaps you understand why some of us keep getting into those threads and arguing the "other side" even though we know where it's going to go - we're doing our best to deny what we sincerely believe is blatant ignorance being promulgated via ATS.

Solution? Well, I don't know. One solution might be to trash or close the new "duplicate" threads when they appear and refer people back to the previous one, but then the propagandists will cry that they are being discriminated against or censored and that this is, indeed, something different because the thread title isn't worded exactly the same.

And obviously ATS can't take my/our word for it and just tell "certain people" not to start any new threads on the same old tired topic.

Luckily for me, I'm not management or staff, so my obligation doesn't extend past informing you of a potential issue. Consider yourselves informed.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I don't think banning is the answer either.

Although I don't like the tactics I see being used, I still think there is value in the posts that don't agree with mine.

I just hope that somehow this can be managed without members having the power to decide what is going to be discussed and what isn't by flooding a thread with off topic "jokes" and other means.

And to add fuel to the fire I have noted that the Moderator who closed that thread has expressed many times his/her personal opinion on the subject of chemtrails as not having validity and this is one of the reasons that the quote box for moderators was created because of complaints that this mod was injecting responses on these threads and people were perceiving the opinions of the mod to be the opinions of the forum which was not true.

This does implicate bias, IMO.

I find the fact that two threads on chemtrails have been closed very disturbing. At the end of one, the mod while having such great difficulty keeping the subject on 'chemtrails' was able to put in his opinion on the derailing subject...

Side note - the UK has never had F-111's in its inventory.

This is clearly ridiculous. The offenders of the thread who were warned several times were not dealt with in accordance with the T&C. They may have been warned but I did not see them banned from the thread, I did not see them being banned for any period... I did not see them banned from the site...

2d.) Forum Gangs: You will not engaged in an organized collaboration with other members to disrupt thread topics or interrupt the flow of normal collaborative discussion. Doing so will result in removal of your post(s) and immediate termination of your account.

You have some that are proud they are here to derail and are part of 'Threadkillers'.... May not be an official group recognized by ATS but they sure make it obvious with statements like...

Guys does this mean its time for a new thread so we can rehash all this again? If so please forward me the URL as I am going back to sleep..

These threads should not have been closed in my opinion. In my opinion I believe that I speak for quite a large number of ATSrs who think this way. This is no way to properly deal with a problem that has the rules just above from the T&C. The offending members should have been dealt with and not the subject.

As I noted in a previous complaint within this thread, I see this inability to control the members as a way to further lock down the talk on ATS so it can be steered into a more desired direction. This is obvious with this latest occurrence and it looks like we should expect more.

As to members trying to keep their 'propaganda' threads going, I think it works for both sides. You have those that have created thread after thread of the same stuff, which is against the T&C, yet they are allowed to do it. Is this an obvious 'look the other way' for those that push a certain agenda? It looks that way to me and many others.

Time to rewrite your T&Cs ATS... they don't match what you've laid down as the law and you don't follow it either. Kind of like the current law enforcement in our society....

Rgds