The ATS Issues Thread

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Calling someone a "disinfo agent" is an insult, and not acceptable.

What about when China does something particularly brutal and their government floods internet forums (including ATS, look back before the Olympics) with internet brigades that push official Chinese propaganda, can we call that out?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Great! Glad to hear it...

Could we then have any comments that were deleted by me reposted within their threads? You appear to have the ability to check on previously deleted posts and I believe others that had theirs removed for using the word 'disinfo' in relation to the material presented and not stating 'agent' should benefit from this decision.

How about instead of deleting a post that someone uses the term 'disinfo agent' you have it alert the mods and they can delete it like profanity by *snip* ing it from the entire post... and then the offender can lose points also.... This is of course if you are saying I'm allowed to say that someone is clearly spreading disinfo and then show my proof. I don't see the need to remove complete posts, the mods could just snip the paragraph that contains the reference.

Easy... its being done already...

rgds

reply to post by AllTiedTogether


I got curious about the thread last night after responding to your initial posting and have made it through page 13 so far. A good reminder of why I stay out of certain topics, actually

But one thing that I've noticed already (and I think I'm less than a third of the way through the thread) is that the mod who seems to be following that thread most closely has already said in no uncertain terms that for that thread the terms "government shill" and "disinfo agent" will not be allowed. Did the incidents that are bothering you happed before or after that notice?

reply to post by americandingbat

a quote by me...

I better watch out.... I noticed I've been getting some stars and on threads like this it usually means your part of the disinfo team..... Well most will see that this is only the case after it was mentioned... You guys are good... Rgds

Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link. Once again, refrain from referring to fellow members as disinfo agents and government shills because they don't share your personal views.

I referred to being part of the team if I got stars... not even referring to an actual person, therefore not even referring to a member....

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether

I referred to being part of the team if I got stars... not even referring to an actual person, therefore not even referring to a member....

As an active participant in the thread in question I gotta pull you up on that claim.

Your very first post in that thread, in fact the very first sentence you say:

As always, the posts with stars are the ones mostly provided by the disinfo artists, and the ones worth reading with little to none. Also, the same group of hard-heads leaving the chemtrails to cloud our view. Oz, Zaphod58, fooffstarr,. WeedWacker.... I've noted a pattern to these and other posters on threads like this.

So you aren't insinuating these guys are disinfo agents then?

Sure looks like it to me, and you were labeling them from the get go too.

Also, you had 4 Mod notes telling you to stop targeting individual posters, which it seems you blatantly ignored...

Why are you hard done by again...?

Link






[edit on 23-3-2009 by Chadwickus]

reply to post by Chadwickus


Yes Chad... but I later provided data to show my accusatory tone in posts that followed.... and as you mention, I did not state they were I used a broad term which in SOs own terms stated earlier is now good if everyone gets the same....

My statement according to SOs terms are now OK... so thanks for that...

**ADDED**** Is there something in my quoted portion that is wrong? It's pretty much proven... I was thinking about starting a thread with type of theme...




[edit on 23-3-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
reply to post by americandingbat

 

a quote by me...

I referred to being part of the team if I got stars... not even referring to an actual person, therefore not even referring to a member....

I read that quote as a direct reference to there being an actual team of disinfo agents on the thread, therefore as an accusation. To me, it would be a borderline call if you hadn't already been personally asked to be courteous and refrain from personal attacks. But you had been, in addition to general warnings posted to the thread by that point asking everyone to watch themselves. Even after this post, you get another request not to engage in this behavior before your posts start getting removed. That's four direct mod requests to follow the T&C before they started to remove your posts!

I'm going to do my best to resist poking my nose in anymore, because this is turning into something I know ATS prefers to avoid: the airing of dirty laundry, whether the questionable behavior is that of a staff person or of a member.

reply to post by americandingbat


I am not saying that I do not do the act of calling someone a 'disinfo agent'.... what I am saying is that it is clear that I was punished for doing it and that others using the same language as I have not been punished within the same threads that I was punished in...

Rgds

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
I used a broad term which in SOs own terms stated earlier is now good if everyone gets the same....

No... you didn't.

My statement according to SOs terms are now OK... so thanks for that.

No... it's not. Please don't think it is.


There is a significant difference between calling thread participants "disinfo artists" (which you did) and referring to theories as "disinformation." Had we received an alert on your post and/or a mod noticed, it would likely have received a warn.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


If that statement would have lead to a warn then what about these ones that are within my signature block again...

Now unless you think someone killed this person in broad daylight in front of dozens of people and then threw the plane part on top of that person, your disinfo ends here:

'm also loving how the disinfo team likes to sit in their little chairs and refresh the thread over and over so they can hurry up and make another post with disinfo in it before anyone else get's to post.

It shows that you really are a disinfo artist and trying to say that the engine is from a 737 when you have no proof, instead you would rather purposefully lie and deceive.

Don't hate me because you got caught in a lie and got caught purposely spreading disinformation.

This one is the entire post...

That is only within the first six posts of 31 posts...

I guess what I'm trying to show here is that your not being fair to both sides of the argument and I'm sorry that I disagree....

Just because I believe that ATS may have CIA ties and other various links to the intentional disinfo campaign that many ATSrs believe is happening, shouldn't matter one iota. If you want to use the fact that I believe ATS is capable of such things as a reason to ban me or stifle my speech then so be it, that is your prerogative as the Site Admin. I don't think you'd be making much of a statement to the general community as to your true feelings of free speech. Some ATSrs were quite dismayed at what occurred over the drug free speech issue and suggested that it would lead to other things.... Is this one of them???

Level playing field... that's all I ask...

***ADDED*** I just wanted to note that the comments I'm using as example are again in my opinion OK and I find no offense in them. Where I find the offense is that I use these same terms and get warned.....


[edit on 23-3-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

[edit on 23-3-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
If that statement would have lead to a warn then what about these ones that are within my signature block again...

You provided them out of context... so your presentation in this thread is misleading.

First: We generally don't warn for posts as old as the ones you quoted, unless there is a very serious infraction.

Second: In the context of the discussion, when all points are taken into consideration, most of what I had seen would not have resulted in anything more than a private "talking to" from staff, and perhaps one warn flag. Yes, an accusation of "disinfo artist" was made, but there were supporting facts explaining why... not just a baseless accusation or ad hominem attack.

Just because I believe that ATS may have CIA ties and other various links to the intentional disinfo campaign that many ATSrs believe is happening,

It's confusing how you believe you should be able to freely do that which you want others to be warned for. I've already told you such baseless accusations are an extreme insult... more extreme than any member calling you a disinformation agent, as you are directly insulting my professionalism, and that of our other admins and staff.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


So based on your believing that I insult your professionalism because I have an opinion as to the workings of your website.... an OPINION much like yours that states that I am stating that you and your staff are unprofessional, merely because I don't agree with your opinion.... Don't understand it but I'll leave it as I don't think I will ever get your logic...

I do thank you for one of the most interesting websites that I've ever been on and that's no disinfo... I always find something very interesting and useful on it each and every day I visit...

I really hope you don't feel my opinion is in need of any correcting or you feel slighted or insulted in anyway. If you do then I suggest that you check around on ATS within the threads and really find out the true feeling of alot of your members. Although they feel like I do they also enjoy the CHANCE at maybe showing someone the real truth and not having them lead by the nose. That is my reason for participating within your forums... I thank you for that opportunity and hope that you see that not everyone will be feeling the same way as you...

You can't ban us all for thinking against ATS can you?

Rgds

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

 

So based on your believing that I insult your professionalism because I have an opinion as to the workings of your website....

but it's not an OPINION. It's an ACCUSATION and he has every right to feel insulted by it.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Thank you for sharing your OPINION against my OPINION... Not everyone thinks alike here....

Let's see this for what it really is there people... If you believe I have made an insult to the ATSs staff and made statements of their unprofessionalism, merely because I have an opinion from what I've read, then I suggest you seek out those that have given me my OPINION....

They are located here within the pages of ATS....


Here, and here, and here.

Should you wish to pursue this witch hunt be my guest ...

I'm really sorry I feel differently than most ATSrs but does that mean I'm bad?

Will we next have a little burning symbol in the place of the 'Warn' tag to signify those that have been burned at the stake by your witch hunt?



[edit on 23-3-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
Thank you for sharing your OPINION against my OPINION.

I suppose then, if someone states in a public thread that it is their "OPINION" that you are a Disinfo Agent, you won't have any issue with that?

Do you understand that, your promotion of a lie about me and my partners could easily be classified as purposefully spreading disinformation?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Check my last post...

***ADDED***
I do not make any statements attesting to any accuracy of those threads I linked... I only state that they have influenced my OPINION in the matter of which way ATS is leaning and that's what I'm saying.... nothing else...



[edit on 23-3-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

reply to post by AllTiedTogether


All three are made as questions or theories, not declarations of (supposed) fact, as you did by saying "focus on what the government tells you to let slide through". You didn't say "I suspect." You didn't say "in my opinion" You said "this is how it is..." which is, by its very nature, accusatory.

reply to post by JoshNorton


Wow was my opinion as accusatory as the comments that I posted from another ATS member that was reported four times via the ALERT button and that nothing happened... Here...

I'd say these are pretty accusatory... now if they are then fine... lets say they are then and then got on with it but be fair across the board... seriously you really can't see these as being equal? Have you even bothered to check the previous posts that are being talked about here?

Originally posted by AllTiedTogether
Will we next have a little burning symbol in the place of the 'Warn' tag to signify those that have been burned at the stake by your witch hunt?

This is not a "witch hunt" my friend. In fact, it's all very simple....

Calling a theory or idea "disinfo" is acceptable and well-within the normal discussion that occurs on the topics within ATS.

Calling someone a "disinfo agent" is an insult, and not acceptable.

Just stick to discussing the post instead of the poster and you'll be fine. That's basic T&C stuff here anyway....it's nothing new.

Don't read too much into this.