The ATS Issues Thread

reply to post by defcon5


I can undesrtand that and don't have any major problem with it, I'm just curious why mr-lizards thread is unviewable.
There were some relevant and interesting points made without breaking T&C.

I don't get some people's pre-occupation with certain forum's here on ATS, but I don't comment on it, it is their choice and I respect that.


[edit on 11/11/09 by Freeborn]

reply to post by Freeborn


What’s it give you when you try and go to the thread? A 404 error?
If so that means they trash binned it. I cannot follow his link to view it, because he did not post any kind of usable link.

reply to post by defcon5


Yeah, that's it a 404 error.
Strange, there was nothing untoward posted in that thread, in fact members made a conscious effort not to break T&C.
All I can say is there were a couple of obscure references to something that seems to be making Staff and Admin very touchy at present.

Truly a shame.

What on earth is happening here to ATS?

reply to post by Freeborn


Regarding the topic of illegal substances and the present policy of removing threads discussing them, I hope you will read this notification.

Often, a benign topic will be opened by a well-intentioned member to tackle what seems to be an unfair law perpetrated by the PTB in order to facilitate certain established corporations and their profit margins. Nothing wrong with that.

The problem becomes obvious in subsequent responses as other members try to twist the intended topic into another, and definitely unwanted, direction.

I believe this is what has happened in this case.

reply to post by masqua


I understand and fully accept that.

However, mr-lizards second thread was more about the percieved increased censorship here on ATS and included subtle references to something else that seems to be bubbling under the surface here on ATS.

As i have stated previously, ATS is still THE premium site of it's type, unfortunately though it is a shadow of it's former self when it come's to free thinking and open and honest debate.

I fully intend to remain an active member of the ATS community, but I, and many other's, are seriously worried about the direction it is taking, unfortunately a lot of members are afraid to speak out for fear of being banned.

Deny Ignorance?

Originally posted by Freeborn

I fully intend to remain an active member of the ATS community, but I, and many other's, are seriously worried about the direction it is taking, unfortunately a lot of members are afraid to speak out for fear of being banned.

Any concerns which members have can be discussed within this thread. It IS the reason why this thread was created and sensitive issues can safely be tackled here without repercussion.

reply to post by masqua


That may have been the case when this thread was originally started.
Unfortunately I fear this has changed.

I fear it has changed that much that I won't voice my thoughts for fear of receiving the same repercussions far too many good members have recently received.

Originally posted by zazzafrazz
I could end up in the CIA server...we are really CIA aren't we?

Well at least you're not in denial any more. Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery!

(kidding!!)

Originally posted by defcon5
Maybe the fact that certain folks cannot seem to wrap their remaining brain cells around such exceptionally simple concepts is a good enough reason in and of itself to justify its legal status.

Well insults aside.

The drug issue in my opinion is THE biggest conspiracy on the planet. Over the last few days i have had about twenty or so members supporting my view point here and i'd say at least half of them are disappointed with ATS for crushing my thread (the one that didn't break any rules).

Despite what some misguided people think, drug threads are NOT about talking about how high they got, but actually it's reasonable, intelligent people wishing to discuss the government involvment in drug trafficking.

The reason why you cannot access my thread is because Skeptic overlord deleted it personally (no reasons as to why a legal thread was deleted either). Since then i've had petty comments from a certain moderator and also my requests for answers have all been ignored. Only one moderator has come forward and asked me what is going on (which i truly appreciate).

The only thing that has kept me going is the dozens of nice replies and eye opening stories from real truth seekers.

Pretty sad that the biggest conspiracy in the world cannot be tackled here or even on RATS, just because of the fear that the site owners might get punished.

I think this is a very sad reflection of the times, when if any question gets asked, the threads get deleted, the people get treated like children and things get diverted.

'Oh we can't talk about this, please think of the children! Oh and here's a thread about a paedophile getting beheaded and crucified....'

I just want to thank all the members who have supported my cause and have provided me with lots of information.
Thankyou to the moderator who took time out to calmly and politely deal with my issue and no thanks to the rude moderator who insulted me or the site owner who deleted a LEGAL thread.

Funny really, that half of the people who contacted me are of a suspicion that there might be more to this issue than meets the eye, with some people suggesting that the censorship might be for an unlterior motive.

Long live the truth.

How do I edit a second title line?

Or delete it for that matter?

reply to post by mr-lizard


some of the supportive comments - Names kept anonymous for fear of repercussions.

'ANY discussion of illegal drugs or mind altering substances (even if they are legal in your country, state, province, county or city) ends today
no more beer or prozac discussion then? nice. does flouride count as mind altering?
a great day for ATS, enjoy enforcing this one guys. '

The DEA is raiding farmers who cultivate THC free strains, although it is legal to do so, the DEA states it is against federal law.
That`s war on drugs gone crazy.
I think the site owners are afraid of the possible actions against them.

I joined this site in the first place to discuss this topic, as it is so interwoven with everything else that is going on.

Great thread, too bad ats has put profit before the TRUTH.

As much as i understand why we cannot have topics about the issue, i cannot understand why a non-threatening thread would be closed down. THIS is the very reason why i am challenging the subject.

If you have interests to protect then that's fine, but to censor a very valid thread that does not take the usual route of risk, is very suspicious.

Methinks ignorance of the subject, an ingrained fear of the subject and profit is what keeps us away from the truth.

Originally posted by mr-lizard
The drug issue in my opinion is THE biggest conspiracy on the planet.

As I've often said, many times, I agree.

In fact, a very-solid case may be made that our national security is much more threatened by the various "soldiers" of the drug cartels operating within our borders, threatening our citizens, subverting our law-enforcement, and functioning as a de-facto foreign foreign army on our soil than any external threat from the collective sum of anti-US terrorist organizations.

The reason why you cannot access my thread is because Skeptic overlord deleted it personally

I did not remove a thread about drugs or hemp, I removed your "Embracing Ignorance" thread which was attempting to open a public debate about our stance on the discussion of drugs.



Anyone who is aware of our repeated attempts to support intelligent and meaningful dialogue on the subjects will know that we've "given it our best." Despite repeated announcements and clear-cut policy, topics regarding drug policy and the value of hemp as an agricultural product have repeatedly been interrupted and degraded by "stoners" advocating personal use of narcotics. This was becoming an overwhelming task for our staff, to the detriment of all the other topics discussed on ATS.

When you combine the "man hours" issue mentioned above with the still very-real problem of automated domain censors categorizing the frequency of drug-related words as a metric for which to apply domain-wide restrictions, it boils down to an unsustainable equation -- tolerating the very minor percentage of discussions has a potentially significant impact on all of the other topics on ATS.


However, please be aware (and reassured) that we are currently discussing this amongst ourselves (as of now, just the senior staff), and may allow some discussions in this topic area in our "Really Above Top Secret" forum, or some other (yet to be named) limited access forum. I just can't predict or promise a timeframe.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

However, please be aware (and reassured) that we are currently discussing this amongst ourselves (as of now, just the senior staff), and may allow some discussions in this topic area in our "Really Above Top Secret" forum, or some other (yet to be named) limited access forum. I just can't predict or promise a timeframe.

I am glad you are considering this. I have asked for this, and I am happy to hear it's seriously being thought of.

Thank you for that.

I once participated in a social experiment online where a forum was given a no censorship or mod rules. At first it was inundated by your prepubescent posts but after a couple weeks it settled down and people begin to discuss as rational adults. I was absolutely amazed by how well this forum did. Many topics came up, and were argued well, this was back in 2001-2002 so the patriot act and 9-11 were very popular. But so was religion, arts, society and it's roles in our lives, and tptb. We even got to discuss carlin's skit and it's following court decisions on obscenity. we also discussed thought and the way certain subjects of censorship lead to a train of thought that is unhealthy to the individual.

I saw preachers, students, constitutional scholars, and even ordinary housewives debating about things I could never touch here under the present rules. This was my favorite social experiment ever. I learned many things, and owe what little debate skills I have to these brave people.

They used the opt in. You had to opt in and you had to agree that you would find opposing viewpoints that would be offensive even patently so.

On a conspiracy forum, any topic that is forbidden is going to be a glaring alarm for some. It will always leave that nagging feeling at the edge of your mind, even if you're not conscious of it.

Thanks for hearing me and others out.

edit: spelling and to clarifying what I was responding to

[edit on 11-11-2009 by Seiko]

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

As I've often said, many times, I agree.

In fact, a very-solid case may be made that our national security is much more threatened by the various "soldiers" of the drug cartels operating within our borders, threatening our citizens, subverting our law-enforcement, and functioning as a de-facto foreign foreign army on our soil than any external threat from the collective sum of anti-US terrorist organizations.

Amongst many other things, such as the blind-eye approach amongst senior political and military and even corporate positions, also the demonisation of certain natural products which could effectively benefit the natural order of living (which massive corporations would despise) and how even the education system has been tarnished with propaganda and lies.

Currently in the UK there is a huge discussion regarding the evidence and discussion amongst scientists and politicians with high ranking representatives are resigning in disgust.

It's a huge umbrella of a subject, and deep down i believe can provide many answers to todays conspiracies on all levels, whether it be spiritual, governmental, military occupation or indeed censorship and disinfo in the mass media.

Thanks for the reply.

I did not remove a thread about drugs or hemp, I removed your "Embracing Ignorance" thread which was attempting to open a public debate about our stance on the discussion of drugs.

My apologies. I have either misread my u2u or got distracted with all the debate. You didn't delete that thread, although a moderator closed it down, in which i have politely challenged his (unanswered) decision on the legality and content of the thread. This is one of my issues at the moment.

Since the thread in question was not about drugs, and did not even mention the word hemp, how then can we justify closing the thread due to one members comments? I sincerely ask, would you close a 9/11 thread if breaking news suggested that the hijackers (for example) were high on drugs when they did it?

Anyone who is aware of our repeated attempts to support intelligent and meaningful dialogue on the subjects will know that we've "given it our best." Despite repeated announcements and clear-cut policy, topics regarding drug policy and the value of hemp as an agricultural product have repeatedly been interrupted and degraded by "stoners" advocating personal use of narcotics. This was becoming an overwhelming task for our staff, to the detriment of all the other topics discussed on ATS.

But that can in a sense be applied to any thread. Just look at the politics section and see how 'baited' some of the topics are. So much trolling and i bet that's a pain in the arse to deal with too. Same with the 9/11 forum and to some extents the religious and ufo threads too.

What about the ufo threads that have large amounts of people advocating people breaking in to top secret facilities? I've seen threads like that go unchecked for hours and hours. What about public executions, they might be legal in some countries, but in other countries they are classed as state murder and illegal.

When you combine the "man hours" issue mentioned above with the still very-real problem of automated domain censors categorizing the frequency of drug-related words as a metric for which to apply domain-wide restrictions, it boils down to an unsustainable equation -- tolerating the very minor percentage of discussions has a potentially significant impact on all of the other topics on ATS.

I think the biggest price to pay with this respected decision is the cost of knowledge. It's not your fault, but your safeguards are essentially preventing us as a community to search for the holiest of grails. The REAL reasons for certain recent events.

Also i notice it's common to suggest that we find elsewhere to discuss such issues, but then we wouldn't have the input or support of this community, which is valuable.

However, please be aware (and reassured) that we are currently discussing this amongst ourselves (as of now, just the senior staff), and may allow some discussions in this topic area in our "Really Above Top Secret" forum, or some other (yet to be named) limited access forum. I just can't predict or promise a timeframe.

I respect that and i respect your reply. Thanks

Originally posted by DazE777
How do I edit a second title line?

Or delete it for that matter?

You mean on your profile/avatar area, right?
Click “Member Tools” at the top, then in the drop down pick “ATS Store”. Many of the options for modifying your avatar area are located in there.

If you want the Scholar-Fighter-Writer tags you must join the appropriate group in ATS: Research projects, Debates, or Creative Writing forum.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Thanks for your reply to mr-lizard, it is re-assuring that you took the time out to offer an explanation.
I know it is a complicated and difficult situation for you, though I disagree with your current policy I do fully understand and respect the reason for it.

I only have one question left, his second thread, which had no mention of hemp or illegal drugs but was more about censorship, was closed, and I understand why, but why is no-one able to view the posts in that thread.
Many threads get closed but are still accessible for viewing.

It is obvious that censorship is a very sensitive subject here on ATS at present.

Members are walking on egg shells and are scared to discuss important issues for fear of being banned.

I think a little clarification and transparency maybe beneficial for all concerned.

Originally posted by Freeborn
why is no-one able to view the posts in that thread.

The thread was moved to the trash bin, which results in a 404 error for non-moderators.

Members are walking on egg shells and are scared to discuss important issues for fear of being banned.

There are only three topics that one might insist on discussion on ATS that will result in account termination. They are:
1) promoting recreational use of narcotics
2) promoting pedophilia or child porn
3) promoting hacking and related illegal computer intrusions
No one should feel concerned about discussing anything else, as long as it's done within the confines of civility and decorum defined by our Terms & Conditions.

There have been no recent bannings (that I'm aware of) that have come as a result of "taboo" subjects, all have been for clear-cut violations of the Terms & Conditions.

If members have misconstrued any account termination to be because of certain topics, I'm truly sorry about that and perhaps that mistaken perception is something we need to figure out how to prevent.

Again I appreciate your reply.

It seems you have addressed most of the concerns expressed and are working towards some sort of resolution to the long standing drug issue.

That is very commendable and only leaves one more question:

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by Freeborn
why is no-one able to view the posts in that thread.

The thread was moved to the trash bin, which results in a 404 error for non-moderators.

I understand that the thread was moved to the trash bin, but why was it moved so quickly?
I have seen many threads closed and most remain visible for quite some time afterwards.
There were many relevant posts in that thread which would have helped support the OP.
There was nothing in the thread about the use of illegal substances.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
However, please be aware (and reassured) that we are currently discussing this amongst ourselves (as of now, just the senior staff), and may allow some discussions in this topic area in our "Really Above Top Secret" forum, or some other (yet to be named) limited access forum. I just can't predict or promise a timeframe.

I would like to encourage such discussions . Also I would respectfully submit that if any of the wider participation of non members of staff that those members be selected carefully . Last time input was sought before the creation of the now defunct forum covering such topics was a minor fiasco . Not only there wasn't enough time for members to consider volunteering , info ended up being leaked out .

Cheers xpert11 .

Originally posted by Freeborn
I understand that the thread was moved to the trash bin, but why was it moved so quickly?

Because it was seeking to open, yet another, public discussion/debate on our stance dealing with drug-related discussions. We are not of a mind to have such a thread, as all previous attempts were just unsuccessful and devolved into little more drama-events and heated comments that resulted in unfortunate account terminations.