Shards of the Illuminati

Maban

I spent a lazy day watching Star Trek in some form or another yesterday and it occured to me that the primary reason for the 'success' of the 'Federation' is the fulfillment of not only physiological needs (according to Maslow'smodel), but also those related to esteem and security (including love and belonging - which naturally progress from a mutually supportive society).

Within the Federation everyone is provided with food and shelter. By giving these automatic provisions to all 'citizens' all but one of the Physiological needs are met (sex being the exception, and it is perhaps wise to allow this decision to remain individual). All are effectively created equal. Additionally, Security needs are met and the opportunity to develop according to their strengths organically leads to success and Esteem.

In terms of a 'Utopia' it is not a bad model to work towards in my opinion, all things considered.

While acheiving such an egalitarian system would obviously involve complex issues such as land reform and the removal of private ownership and priviledge (both of which I am in favour of, having little to lose myself), what most interests me is the role of 'Replicators' in providing food and in some case material needs. The concept of creating something seemingly out of nothing has engaged many in scientific experiment, but given your scientiific and technological bent I would be interested in your perception of how realisable such technology is. And how far we (humanity) are from ending 'need'? (It is my hope that as a species we will conquer 'want' much sooner, fingers crossed and wood touched).

Best wishes
KT

reply to post by Maban

To see that there are truly good and bad people within the "Illuminati"

Alllrighty then!

I'll just cut through all this Saturday morning reading here cause my cartoons are on - and ask you:

In ten words or less --->

Who're the GOOD GUYS and who're the BAD GUYS?

Good Illuminati? Bad Illuminati? Two sides a one coin?

Come onnnn...

Thanks...




...rotfl! Yosemite Sam is still sayin' "Whoa Camel, I sayz WHOA!"...


[edit on 13-9-2008 by silo13]

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Wonderful Question!
My apologies for the delay, it needed some time to sleep off the jet lag.

This indeed is a premiere example of how Utopia could be achieved, given yes there are many complexities to it, it is indeed possible; if not inevitable if we are able to move past our self destructiveness.

In regard to replicators, many misconstrue their abilities. Many think they merely make something out of nothing; when in fact it is merely being actively built with microscopic amounts of matter, smaller than the naked eye is able to perceive. The process is relatively simple, you possess a machine which is able to stream atoms out of magnetic containment vessels and combine them in various forms to create complex molocules; these are then bound together to create matter. In the Star Trek movies this is simply being done at extremely fast speeds, which extremeley precise and large calculations being done. effectivly coordinating how many and which atoms are needed to make a molecule then to place the molecule in the right three dimentional space and initiate molecular bonding, then repeat this process many thousands of times and probably in paralell.

The actual reproduction or "Replication" of a item is quite simple as well. You create whatever you wish by normal means (i.e. food, clothing, etc...) then place it into one of these "Replicators." It is then deconstructed at the molecular level and mapped accordingly. Afterwards you are effectively able to reproduce the same object an infinite number of times because their molecular composition will be identical, because the same molecular mapping is utilized from deconstruction to reconstruction.

Essentially what a replicator does (in the Star trek Universe) is bind matter using gravimetric fields at the atomic level to produce the desired molecule which are then bond into matter. An extremely advanced means by which you could truly create matter out of "nothingness" would be to use a zero point vacuum generator to create electromagnetic energy. Using a hypothetical Alice String Rotation Converter this energy could be converted at the String level to form the proper quarks, into protons, neutrons, and electrons,a t which point these are reconstructed to form specific elements (atoms) which are then built into molecules, then matter. This is theoretically allowable because of Einstein's Mass-Energy Equivalence equation. the famous E=MC^2 equation. Where essentially, matter and energy are transposable from one to the other, because they are both the same thing, because they are both made out of the same principle building blocks.

In reality we have achieved this level of technological capability to a degree, by utilizing nano-assembling nanites which are able to deconstruct and reconstruct matter at the atomic to molecular levels we can replicate many small objects. It requires a good deal of energy to do so, however we are slowly developing methods of reducing the power consumption of one of these devices. However rearranging matter at the subatomic levels or smaller is still impossible with our technology, no nanite would ever be capable of doing this. At the same, creating matter out of Vacuum Energy is plausibly a millennia away for humanity's greatest minds.

Great question!

- Maban

reply to post by silo13


Well. There are good, there are bad, and mostly there are shades of gray.

Few things in our world are still truly black and white, but if you wish for me to adjust the contrast button, I will provide you with the best answer I can muster. Typically those whom openly claim they are Illuminati are either "bad" or showboating. Those whom claim they follow "Illuminism" are either indifferent or quite gray. Those whom claim that they are merely stewards trying to help or stabilize events, are typically the "good guys."

This may not hold true always but it usually does with most individuals. Many whom are on the "good" side hardly ever mention anything alluding to "Illuminati," except to make a point, or be recognized for an important message (no I am not "covering myself,' just providing as crystal clear as a contrast as possible). Those whom are gray may mention Illuminati, but are more likely to speak of Illuminism and associated practices around it, Heaven, Angels, Enlightenment, Nirvana, Space/Heavens, Fire, etc. Those whom claim they are Illuminati and preach esoteric or occultist rituals, secrets, and/or diving rights/duties are often bad. Those who echo these and preach elitism and materialism to a degree of fanaticism or zealotry are often the few Illuminati whom have in some cases taken on Satanistic / sadistic mentalities, are are extremely dangerous.

This was certainly not in ten words or less, but was as abbreviated as I felt comfortable in approaching. typically I do not which to "simply" such important and "Complex" matters such as these, but there you have it.

- Maban

Originally posted by Maban
reply to post by silo13

 

Well. There are good, there are bad, and mostly there are shades of gray.

Few things in our world are still truly black and white.

- Maban

This is true, and welcome back Maban.

The question may be explained with the crude yin and yang symbol. The illuminati exists in two parts, to this very day. It is good and it is evil. Half cancels out the other half. There is only conflict when the balance is out of proportion.

Can we say this is true? I believe so. A war exists in a realm .......not physical. This is where the balance is kept.

Best.

Welcome back Maban.

Hmmm...is this about to turn into a pot of grandma's old-time quark soup?

Truth and physical are relative are they not? Just what is the universe if not relative to itself?

Originally posted by Maban
reply to post by silo13

 

Well. There are good, there are bad, and mostly there are shades of gray.

Few things in our world are still truly black and white, but if you wish for me to adjust the contrast button, I will provide you with the best answer I can muster. Typically those whom openly claim they are Illuminati are either "bad" or showboating. Those whom claim they follow "Illuminism" are either indifferent or quite gray. Those whom claim that they are merely stewards trying to help or stabilize events, are typically the "good guys."

(Emphasis added)

Also, terms like "good" or "bad" are subjective to the observer. Therefore I would agree with you that mostly everything (or nothing), "is" grey. As things are either black, white or grey depending on who you ask; they exist to me as grey because to me they exist as all three simultaneously. So, in purely objective terminology; to label anyone or anything as intrinsically "good," or intrinsically "bad" is inherently meaningless.

reply to post by Cadbury


I have to agree here as well. It is all part of a balance that is necessary.
Without what people perceive to be bad.. there would be no good. and vice versa. They are interdependant, each is necessary to the others existence.
Which then in theory would make them neither for if bad is necessary for good to exist then it must in some way be good for it allows for the existence of good and good for bad. Which leaves you with gray.

Maban, how do you feel about the Freemasons Role in all of this?

Are their some Freemasons that will be spared for the New World? Some lower ranking Masons that will die off?

Also as a follow up question, what can yout tell us about the 144,000?

[edit on 14-9-2008 by 12.21.12]

Originally posted by 12.21.12
Maban, how do you feel about the Freemasons Role in all of this?

Are their some Freemasons that will be spared for the New World? Some lower ranking Masons that will die off?

Also as a follow up question, what can yout tell us about the 144,000?

[edit on 14-9-2008 by 12.21.12]

The Freemasons have nothing to do with this alleged 'New World Order'.

The question about 'lower ranking Masons' is ridiculous and offensive.

If you look at the rest of the thread I believe you will find that Maban says the Freemasons have nothing to do with ruling the world.

reply to post by emsed1


Understood. I am not really pro-mason, anti-mason myself. But I am interested in learning more about the craft and it's role in our society.

I would be interested in hearing from somebody who is not a Mason but well informed as Maban is. Cause you just never know when it comes from a mason.

Also I never said that Masonry has anything to do with the NWO or the end of the world or anything like that.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by 12.21.12]

reply to post by Illahee


Ah, the illustrious and mysterious Illahee; I believe a welcome back in in good order for you as well. I had surmised such an answer would provoke a response such as the one you graciously provided.

Indeed the yin and yang symbols seem idyllic, however they are fundamentally flawed. So many have been mislead to believe that all things in the universe come in pairs, but in truth they exist by threes. A proper yin and yang symbol would need to incorporate the neutral, or gray. The good and evil do not cancel out in force or efficacy, but in result. Good and evil have pitted themselves against each other for as long as time itself, however it has always been the gray, or the neutral force that tips the balance in favor of the one or the other. The very nature, of human nature is comparable to the simplest of our being, protons, electrons, and neutrons. There always exists the positive (good), electrons (bad), and the neutrons (the neutral).

Those whom truly recognize this do not actively combat evil as their only method, but who also attempt to sway the neutral forces to shift the balance in favor of the good and light in our world. I may appear biased to many, but good will inevitably prevail, it is in its very nature. Whereas, evil is far more powerful and forceful, inevitably ensuring its defeat. The very qualities which provide it its power, also vie to shred it from within, greed, lust, power, are merely the best known weapons which grant them their power. They are also amongst the arsenal which does our work for us, unaiding them in their throes for power and control.

No non-physical realm is necessary to recognize this, nor facilitate its effects upon our world. The quest and actions which we partake in, in this realm, this world, have very real and consequential effects. here and now as well as on our future. It should be reemphasized and stressed, that our actions should never be divorced from their consequences. We are what we wish to see in our world and our futures; our very actions shaping and creating the future before us.

- Maban

reply to post by EnlightenUp


Truth and physicality are merely the identifiers by which we describe our surroundings in the most concrete sense, while surrounded by an abstract universe. Only beings beyond our comprehension are possible of clearly contrasting and defining these subtle differences. Even then they may simply be guessing.

But for the meanwhile, I take to the words of the wisest ones my kin has ever known, as the path we should strive to tread. Would it not be madness to disregard the warnings of our elders? For often a not the woods hold dangers beyond our imaginations reach.

- Maban

reply to post by 12.21.12

Originally posted by 12.21.12
As a follow up question, what can you tell us about the 144,000?

The 144,000 from the book of Revelations. I will say two things, do not read to closely or too in depth to that verse. In addition I can accurately state that we (The Shards) are unsure as to its exact meaning. However, we do have our own interpretation, however I am both unwilling and unable to share them with the general public; or for that matter of fact any other than a fellow Illuminon.

Maban, how do you feel about the Freemasons Role in all of this?

Are their some Freemasons that will be spared for the New World? Some lower ranking Masons that will die off?

The Masons used to be regarded as some of the most skilled craftsmen and architects in ancient Babylonian times, sharing similar roots as the original Illuminism did. Their organization has changed throughout the millenia as has the Illuminati. My question is not of their actions, but their cause. If they truly have long held to their original purpose, and still vie to fulfill it. They are by no means evil or dark, although there are those whom would speak slander against them as many have ours. Yet again not all are to be readily trusted, but is would be accurate to say; you would be safer in the keep of strangers who were Freemasons, than that of strangers who were Illuminati.

I do not trust all Freemasons, and am usually suspicious of their individual motives, as well as their modern causes. Of course this is on a personal level, one suspicious or bad individual does not represent the face of the orginization as a whole. I myself have several Freemason friends and allies, as well as foes and enemies. Such could be said about nearly every orginization, the true trick is distinguishing between the two before they know you too well. So I advise caution, but not paranoia, there is for too much of that these days.

The New World? The New World Order? I will reiterate that this is no creation of ours. Born out of dark deviants of the Illuminati's bowels and the principle goal of many whom have defaced and drowned many once just and pure organizations. Those that support the NWO have been proponents to what many have surmised it to be, a dark future, if allowed. Unfortunately those whom have created this, "plan" did in fact base it off our organization's "plan." Ours is what we call the NEC, New Earth Civilization. As Kilgore Trout so thoughtfully mentioned, such an orginization would appear similar to the works of the late Gene Roddenberry. Humanity would soon after reach a point where duly elected leaders were unnecessary and if only cumbersome to the progress of humanity. A form of pure democracy would eventually emerge creating a better and bright future for our world. Those conspirators whom tortured and bastardized this plan to create the NWO seek the polar opposite of the NEC's creation.

These are men who vie for power, domination, greed, lust, and power over all else. Casually disguised as leaders, businessmen, and everyday folk, ensnaring them is difficult, and challenging to say the least. However, this is indeed one of our primary goals. After all, we will not allow others to press their will over humanity, nor will we ever press ours over humanity. This world is humanity's, not ours, nor theirs. We merely stabilize the world and allow humanity to naturally evolve and overcome their pitfalls from previous generation. If humanity has proven one trait it excels at, it is that of adaptation to ones environment, and the ability to eventually coalesce with it, once they become fully aware. Aware in the sense of self, and those around one's self.

Many have asked why we do not "accelerate" or "push" such an advancement in our world. Why we sit back and simply mediate and do not actively participate. The answer is that we are merely guides, not leaders. We act as the guardrails on the path to betterment. We allow humanity to stray across the road, but to never fall off it. We may be able to effect great change and progress, but inevitably altering the hearts and minds of every man, woman, and child, is a dangerous thing. A think which we have no right in doing. They must be free to choose their own path towards the light; and in that choice they are more dedicated and pure than any forced one.

- Maban

Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by emsed1

 

Understood. I am not really pro-mason, anti-mason myself. But I am interested in learning more about the craft and it's role in our society.

I would be interested in hearing from somebody who is not a Mason but well informed as Maban is. Cause you just never know when it comes from a mason.

Also I never said that Masonry has anything to do with the NWO or the end of the world or anything like that.

[edit on 14-9-2008 by 12.21.12]

Sorry for the visceral response. I was having a fleeting attack of Condescension.

Maban -

What do you see to be the most important issues in the upcoming elections in the US?

It seems like we focus too much on the Presidency and the office doesn't really convey that much power, except to declare war for short periods, etc.

I can't help but think we are missing the point by over-emphasizing political and ideological differences instead of focusing on the important tasks that move us toward a more enlightened existence.

Do you ever see a point where we will get past 'money' as the center and focus of all our activities? All the political issues seem to come down to the control and legislation of spending tax dollars.

I don't want to drag your thread into a political discussion or get folks debating the merits of candidates or parties, but I would like to hear what you think we as a nation should be focusing our energies on.

Thanks!

reply to post by emsed1

What do you see to be the most important issues in the upcoming elections in the US?

- The Economy
Well namely my concern would be economic plans. As I am sure you all know the stock market took a dive of over 500 points today. Many of us (Businessmen) saw this looming, especially since the NYSE opened on a Sunday, as part of an emergency session.

I would personally see the economy as the single most important factor for the presidency. Because the USG is not a communistic state, money is not only necessary, but pivotal to the survival of the United States, unequivocally. This is because the entire system of capitalism is centered and built around the concept of individual opportunities for increasing self gain and wealth. It can rapidly generate opportunity and prosperity, however, its equal and opposite pitfall is hoarding and greed. Because so many may not wish to "risk" their wealth in an unstable and unsuitable economy, they will hoard their wealth, thereby creating an opportunity vacuum, and freezing all money transactions. Given that in addition to this freeze, the United States economy essentially drives the supply and demand for many other countries a ripple effect is incurred, causing smaller less developed and diversified economies to wither and collapse.

- Economic Fallout
Health care, Social Security, War, these are all trivial issues in the face of a government unable to take any major actions (except militarily, but with extreme cost) simple questions of sustainability and simple survival begin to enter the most complacent of minds. When people are unable to get their "bread and water," the very structure of a government and their leaders lose cohesion and order.

Natural disasters (storms), war, and above all vanity seem to permeate the political arena, especially surrounding the presidential candidacies. But these are the least of our concerns. When the RBS (Royal Bank of Scotland) predicts that the United States is likely to experience a recession greater than that of the 80's, and even possibly a depression worst than the 30's, what kind of world do you think we will have? During the 1930's depression it was bad, but people were still living off the land to some extent, and were locally reliant upon each other. Thereby allowing them to shift back to subsistence living. The question remains, in this day and age, what happens when pampered people who have taken lights, electricity, showers, food, and water for granted, do, when there are in shortage; or worse?

What will happen to regions which have grown accustomed to importing everything, and export nothing? Drastic changes would have to be made to change peoples mentalities from average, everyday life, back towards subsistence living. Many, if not most normal people would panic. Streets and cities would be thrown into chaos. The riots in Los Angeles were bad, but imagine if the police never got reinforcements, and the rioting and looting spread with seemingly no end?

Absolute order is just as barbaric and ruthless as no order at all; a fine tuned balance is required. Because the greedy and unscrupulous methods of the ruling elite have perpetuated themselves, they still hold the same intrinsic flaws which have doomed every other civilization before us. the question is if we will see these flaws before history repeats itself.

- Foreign Affairs & America Abroad
Other factors to consider would of course be foreign affairs, namely the Middle East, North Korea, Russia, etc... These have great potential for causing, disruptions to the global society. the other side of the coin being how America and her citizens are regarded abroad. I ask any who reside beyond the United States to pay comment to this. What are your views from an "outside" perspective?

- "Smart War;" Tactical Strategies, not "(sticker)shock & (media) awe."
The War on Terrorism; how exactly does one fight a tactic, never mind... The United States tried-and-true tactics of "smashing the little guy" works so long as he plays by the rules, and does the same. As the saying goes, "playing against a fellow operative is live a delicate game of chess, observing your opponents strategies and counteracting them. But what separates the operatives from the agents is being able to cheat while they are still watching." To continue the analogy, the current President and Military Brass cannot seem tell the difference between a pawn and a Knight, let alone "cheat" at the game. We need someone who is either versed in tactical maneuvers, or is wise enough to recognize they know nothing about tactics and let the men whom have made careers of it, advise them; then make decisions by their advice. Rather than relying on technological superiority and numbers. If we are to prevent terrorism we need to fight smart, not strong.

We need an individual who can identify real threats, and back them up with facts which can be corroborated independently by foreign intelligence organizations. Then, utilizing this information wisely, and effectively engage in small tactical strikes, rather than ill conceived "blow them up, shoot them up," sort of tactics. Its a hell of a lot easier to send in one commando unit, then level an entire block; the locals also prefer it too. After all the best "Shock and Awe" campaign is the campaign with no sound. I ask, which is psychologically more frightening, bombs exploding far above on a mountain or rooftop; or your comrades who were just standing beside you vanishing into thin air? If the enemy cannot identify the threat, paranoia and fear become the mind killers, giving you an overwhelming advantage atop reoccurring elements of surprise..

The last detail I which would eventually "buy" my vote, is someone with a comprehensive plan to improve training and equipment for the troops that they do decide to send haphazardly into harm's way.

>>> Continued

>>> Continued

- Homeland Defense, "The bridge to nowhere? What about the wall through nowhere?"
Homeland Security is a crucial thing these days because there exist legitimate threats, but if the TSA and DHS is the best they can do, I prefer my closet and a loaded pistol, thank you very much. We need someone willing to reform and rebuild the system from scratch. Security nationally had degraded if not disappeared, it truly has become a paper dragon.

I cannot remember the source (so take it with a grain of salt) it had been reported that after TSA took control of airport security from privet companies, detection of illicit materials and legitimately suspicious persons fell by %112. Politicians are paranoid about the Mexican border, yet for many years the Oregon coastline was patrolled and secured by one ranger. Pardon the pun, but there are holes in national security that you could fly a plane through, maybe even a cruise ship if you're quick. In earnest this is no laughing matter, but the "proposed" solutions indeed are. Meanwhile, the USG is running Border Patrol adds ad nauseum because a majority of them were, and in fact many still are in Iraq and Afghanistan conducting peacekeeping operations. The National Guard was devised to prevent and respond to domestic emergencies, not foreign military operations. If we were truly serious about terrorism, we would already have National Security which would stand unrivaled with our know how and resources at our disposal.


- A fresh Mentality & A New Direction
After the issues above my biggest concern would be to see someone who can move the United States beyond the paranoid and terror stricken mentality of terrorism, into a proactive and headstrong mentality. We need someone who can inspire people, not scare them into submission. The people need to be aware, but hopeful. for if we lose hope, then the future is gone all together.

- Overall
I have perpetually seen more of the same, none has really stood out in my mind; a "none of the above" bubble comes to mind. Unfortunately you need a fleet of lobbyists, several hundred million dollars, and ten years to just get that approved; never mind if it ever actually gets printed on the ballots.

These are the issues I see most pressing. If there are others that you feel I have inadvertently overlooked, or should also be aware of, please do mention them. I may have more resources than most individuals, but that certainly by no means makes me all knowing; although it would be a refreshing change of pace.

It seems like we focus too much on the Presidency and the office doesn't really convey that much power, except to declare war for short periods, etc.

Unfortunately the Presidency is no more than a voice and a symbol. A voice that has long fallen on deaf ears, and a symbol long forgotten, reimagined into a visceral and sophistic meaning.

I can't help but think we are missing the point by over-emphasizing political and ideological differences instead of focusing on the important tasks that move us toward a more enlightened existence.

It is sad that people prefer to epitomize and highlight all that divides us, rather than all that unites us. If we were to weigh the differences and similarities, I think we would all find we had more in common than we all thought.

Do you ever see a point where we will get past 'money' as the center and focus of all our activities? All the political issues seem to come down to the control and legislation of spending tax dollars.

Yes; in one of two scenarios. Producing anything costs merely nothing. Two, we generate a plentiful supply of the essentials, so there is never scarcity or need. the next greatest step is eliminating the "want" from human nature, that is the tricky part. you can change the entire world, but changing people's "Hearts and Minds" takes the longest, and is by far the hardest.

I don't want to drag your thread into a political discussion or get folks debating the merits of candidates or parties, but I would like to hear what you think we as a nation should be focusing our energies on.

In a word, "Change". I know that that is Obama's slogan, but it is the truth. I am not supporting him nor his plans, but I am stating a point of fact. Typically when even a toddler realizes the square peg will not fit in the round hole, he try's something else. I do not know about everyone else, but I call this strange phenomena "Change". People fear change because it can make things worse, someone probably said that about leaving our caves. Someone probably also said that about sailing off the ends of the earth. But without ever trying, how will we ever better ourselves or overcome our own inhibitions and pitfalls. If we are never challenged then we never progress. If the religions of the world provide one solid good trait, it is the leverage to everyday people to try change, while providing albeit it a invisible security blanket.

Fear, Greed, Lust, Power, Wealth, Ego, Arrogance, Hate, Anger... You have to let it all go and reach higher than our imagines can take us. At least then if we fall short of perfection, it shouldn't be that bad of a place for the next generation to begin, and reach even higher.

- Maban

[edit on 16-9-2008 by Maban]

Originally posted by Maban

Great question!

Met with a great response...thank you.

Highly explanatory and surprisingly sensical.

Sorry hit the wrong key...no post here


[edit on 16-9-2008 by KilgoreTrout]