The Chemtrail Myth

oh ,and oz,why is it that when the trails completely caver the sky, i have seen brown ,orange and grey "rainbows"? you allude to rainbows but everyone knows that water induced rainbows do not have these colors in them. i have seen this effect here,outside of philadelphia several times. if is not chemicals, why didnt it have red,yello,blue and purple? did those colors have the day off?


[edit on 20-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]

reply to post by Spectre0o0


Have you checked the link I posted about irisation or iridescence yet?

Or did you skip over it

Originally posted by interestedalways
This atmosphere you and those that attempt to destroy discussion of this topic should be noticed by the mods for what you are doing to this site.

What is he "doing to this site" actually? Presenting his professional opinion on the subject? Whats wrong with that exactly?

Just because people disagree with him does not mean he is doing anything wrong.

If you think you can prove him wrong, do it, properly, with reasoned scientific information and multiple credible sources with substance to them.

If you - or anyone else for that matter - can't do that then I suggest you stop throwing wild accusations around about peoples "motives" because that IS Ad hominem attacking and it most certainly DOES contravene the T&C.

Debate the post, not the poster. Simple as that. Its what ATS is about.

skipped over it,but did you miss my navy experience?
ever seen 75 of those lines in the sky at once...i haveand they do criss cross in the sky. i have seen x's o's and checkerboards. i have seen the same 4 planes flying patterns over me for hours, fall into military formation and leave the area twords the nearby(maguire afb). i saw them shut the spraying down all at the same time. i guess i'm realld doloosinall

[edit on 20-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 20-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]

reply to post by neformore


Just the response I expected from you.

Spectre, who saw the spraying by the planes while in the navy, sorry to distract from that post, it was worth noting.



[edit on 20-4-2008 by interestedalways]

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
skipped over it,but did you miss my navy experience?

Certainly not, but since when does the Navy have anything to do with upper air? Oh and we do forecast coastals and ocean conditions for the Navy and they send us sea observations. In fact our navy has its own forecasters that liase with us.....strange that they havent reported anything unusual like your observation.

reply to post by interestedalways


Its nice to know I'm consistent then.

ATS Terms and Conditions of Service. Its the ONLY way to fly.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


nice side step, but you need to read what happened that day again. they were kc10 tankers not observation planes they were 50 miles out , an at 30,000 ft they were above an f18 airshow. why would the navy report their own flights doing something they dont want you to know about?i saw the boards in the room 3 4x4 screens, a air traffic control treminal and a sonar array the 3 tankers were identified to me ,that they were flying patterns, and their point of origin. the only info i could not get was WHAT they were doing there.
oh i know! maybe they were protecting the squadron of f18 superhornets! or the hawkeyes they had there

you REALLY NEED TO DO A LOT MORE RESEARCH IF YOU THINK THE NAVY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ATMOSPHERE YOU CAN START WITH HAARP, AND JUST FOLLOW ALONG FROM THERE.
that was a minus 10 credibility points right there

[edit on 20-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]

[edit on 20-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
you REALLY NEED TO DO A LOT MORE RESEARCH IF YOU THINK THE NAVY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ATMOSPHERE YOU CAN START WITH HAARP, AND JUST FOLLOW ALONG FROM THERE.
that was a minus 10 credibility points right there

[edit on 20-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]

Why should I do more research when I work as an upper air meteorologist?

Is my training not adequate? Should I get all my information of meteorology off the interent (like all the chemtrailers).

Surely you dont think the interent is an adequate information tool do you?

They just keep on sidestepping. This is indication that you are correct. They also, most always claim to have read, written, worked, at whatever you present for false credibility.....very predictable. Good point you made.




reply to post by Spectre0o0

like i said you really need to researh the extensive experimentation they do with the atmosphere. if you're a meteorologist, explain to me why it always rains when i wash my car, because it's supposed to be clear out
the navy leads all other military branches in atmospheric experimentation and weather contol. they even consider weather control to be a weapon so they can bring their ships in under cloud cover. now wouldn't that add a little creibility to chemtrails?
this info is easily accessed on the web
minus another 10 cedibility points
oh and please tell us what the weather will be like for the next week,and where the contrails will be. i wanna go campin(eastern PA)

[edit on 20-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
like i said you really need to researh the extensive experimentation they do with the atmosphere. if you're a meteorologist, this lack of knowledge explain to me why it always rains when i wash my car, because it's supposed to be clear out

Sorry, not in the forecasting branch, just the aviaiton and upper air section which is why I am so against the chemtrail argument. ie I send weather balloons up each shift to determine what the atmosphere is doing. Forecaster arent wrong all the time either. They just provide information for what the short term weather is, which is prone to change very quickly.....and forecasters are a tad to slow (believe me they are )

the navy leads all other military branches in atmospheric experimentation and weather contol. they even consied weather control to be a weapon so they can bring their ships in under cloud cover. now wouldn't that add a little creibility to chemtrails?
this info is easily accessed on the web
minus another 10 cedibility points

Top secret information is it? Or other information that is misinterpreted?
Wouldnt it be more advantageous to bring ships in through sea fog which last time I checked occurs at the surface. Much more easier to reproduce fog then clouds. Of course technologically advanced countries like afghanisatn and Iran arent exactly a threat to the US war machine.

oh and please tell us what the weather will be like for the next week,and where the contrails will be. i wanna go campin(eastern PA)

Wish I could but my organisation is the Australian Bureau of Meteorology. That area is a tad out of our forecasting region. That and I dont do the public weather forecast section.

reply to post by OzWeatherman


One other thing that I found interesting is your first
post when creating this thread you stated to keep it civil
but yet between you and your two comrades all you seem
to be doing is insulting the lack of knowledge we possess
regarding weather, I may not be a meteorologist and I never
claimed to be, although I do have degree's in other areas
that would rival your intelligence just as you have that is
beyond mine although given time and proper training I'm
sure I could learn your trade as you could learn mine.

This is a debate on Contrails Vs. Chemtrails nowhere did
you state that one needed to have a degree in meteorology
to entertain in this debate so I would wisely suggest that
you relieve your frustrations in another way.

On another note you have not proven that chemtrails do not
exist nor have we proven so far that they do, so we could say
this is a draw and a moot point, Although if we were to use
world history as a factor for this subject I'm sure even yourself
may come to the conclusion that it is entirely possible.

I sincerely hope that your analogy is correct but for myself
and many others, like bad medicine are finding it rather
hard to swallow.

our wonderful government just passed a bill last year to oversee the people who manipulate the weather. it was sponsored by kate hutchinson. i could be wrong but i bw=elieve it was h.r.517 109th congress. not only do they create weather to invade with, but also claim they can cause major climate change ,like no rain or too much rain to stop armor.
what about haarp? on their own site they talk about heating the ionisphere to bounce elf off it to nuclear subs that dont even surface for up to 6 months at a time. haarp was an over the horizon radar site until we started using satellites

haarp faq page

now that was a joint project ofwho? or is it whom?

[edit on 20-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]

Originally posted by DOHC
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

One other thing that I found interesting is your first
post when creating this thread you stated to keep it civil
but yet between you and your two comrades all you seem
to be doing is insulting the lack of knowledge we possess
regarding weather,

It was a reminder to myself to. Threads like this cause everyone to get flustered

I havent insulted anyone I think.....the mods wouldve pulled me up on it I think

I may not be a meteorologist and I never
claimed to be, although I do have degree's in other areas
that would rival your intelligence just as you have that is
beyond mine although given time and proper training I'm
sure I could learn your trade as you could learn mine.

Ok, cool. What areas may I ask do you specialise in? Is it to do with your proffesion? I dont claim to be intelligent by the way...the weather is just one are which I feel I have a good deal of knowledge on. I find it weird when I am accused by other of disinfo when I agree with other ATS topics like UFO's (and the UFO government cover up) and the paranormal (sorry had to add that)

This is a debate on Contrails Vs. Chemtrails nowhere did
you state that one needed to have a degree in meteorology
to entertain in this debate so I would wisely suggest that
you relieve your frustrations in another way.

I know, but the majority of people that argue pro chemtrail do not provide any good eveidence. Most of it starts with "The skies have become..." , "Yesetrday it was...." or "I took some photos of ...."

However to your credit you have provided some decent evidence which has been debatable. Its difficult to debate people personal opinions when they say they have seen something with no background or evidence of it

On another note you have not proven that chemtrails do not
exist nor have we proven so far that they do, so we could say
this is a draw and a moot point, Although if we were to use
world history as a factor for this subject I'm sure even yourself
may come to the conclusion that it is entirely possible.

I sincerely hope that your analogy is correct but for myself
and many others, like bad medicine are finding it rather
hard to swallow.

I have proven that contrails exist, spread out, and can have black lines. One member showed me pictures of the black line thing and I am happy to say his opinion was changed. Of course anything is possible....but not everything is plausible, and chemtrails sprayed at such a height is not plausible. Cloud seeding, chaff and crop spraying do not occur at great heights and have not been proven to cause the same effects that chemtrailers say

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by corusso
[
Me too. I live close to New Orleans & Stenis Space Center in Mississippi. I've seen these things line the sky in the morning & by the afternoon these lines have spread out to cover the clear blue sky with a grey haze. What causes this?

[edit on 17-4-2008 by corusso]

Wind dispersion

The upper winds where these occur can be quite strong. Especially within the jet stream where winds can reach 200mph so its likely to happen providing the air stays moist enough

So, these trails of 'smoke & moisture' can spread out across the clear blue sky and cover the sky as far as I can see within a few hours and linger for the rest of the day. I don't remember seeing that in the past. I don't remember one instance of this happening in the place where I've lived all my life. Why has this only started happening in the past 8 or so years?
I've also noticed the week after this happens alot of folks have sinus troubles and we seem to have odd weather patterns. I wittness this alot among the hundreds of friends and neighbors I see at my restaurant.

Originally posted by Spectre0o0
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

i was on a navy ship in the combat room. they were spraying above us out on the open sea . these were identified as kc10 tankers, 3 of them.
they were there all day the trails stopped and they left in formation. i guess it was just the right conditions directly above us. by the way , they were out of oceana nas. just another debunked coincidence,right?


[edit on 20-4-2008 by Spectre0o0]

Spectre0o0

Although you don't state what year you observed
the spraying I do know that there was a program
going on awhile back where they were putting Iron
in the oceans to stimulate plankton growth somehow
they claim it reduces carbon, although they say they stopped
doing it when fish started dying in mass quantities there is no
information that would suggest the have not.

This may or may not be what you were seeing Just thought I
would pass it along.

there are many links for this here is one for you
pubs.acs.org...

reply to post by DOHC


it was sumer 2007 sorry about the one liner

Originally posted by corusso
So, these trails of 'smoke & moisture' can spread out across the clear blue sky and cover the sky as far as I can see within a few hours and linger for the rest of the day. I don't remember seeing that in the past. I don't remember one instance of this happening in the place where I've lived all my life. Why has this only started happening in the past 8 or so years?
I've also noticed the week after this happens alot of folks have sinus troubles and we seem to have odd weather patterns. I wittness this alot among the hundreds of friends and neighbors I see at my restaurant.

Yes they can... thats why I keep bringign up Cirrostratus which nobody has yet questioned. Cirrostratus is formed by the spreading out of cirrus clouds, in meteorlogical terms, contrails are considered as cirrus clouds. Cirrostratus is a high cloud type which can cover the entire sky and is sometimes so thin it is almost invisible. Occasionally the only way you can tell its there is due to contrail shadows or the halo phenomenen. It can slow be think enough to block out the sun when the upper air is supersaturated. Cirrostartus is also a good precursor (and a good indicator of moisture in the sky) to rain as it overshoots lines of storms, hurricanes and cold fronts.

I wouldnt attribute odd weather patterns to weather modification. The weather does a good enough job of that itself. For instance the earth is warmer then it was a couple of decades ago which means convectiove weather (storms, hurricanes) are more intense. Plus El Nino is shifting back towards the western US, which means people without access to climate data would find the weather is different.

It does appear there is more contrails, due to increased air traffic and also because of the internet. There are a few sites that are selling things like orgone energy machine (or chemtrail buster) which is said to destroy chemtrails (for people to dense to realise better), and also Art Bell plugged a Miracle Cream said to relieve people of joint aches brought on by chemtrails, and who could forget Dr Bill Deagle (who had his medical license revoked) who sells miracle cures for chemtrail brought on illness. What I am trying to say is that the internet scaremongers people into believing theories. Most the sites come from people with no scientific background what so ever (is that supposed to be one word?)

Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by DOHC
reply to post by OzWeatherman

 

I may not be a meteorologist and I never
claimed to be, although I do have degree's in other areas
that would rival your intelligence just as you have that is
beyond mine although given time and proper training I'm
sure I could learn your trade as you could learn mine.

Ok, cool. What areas may I ask do you specialise in? Is it to do with your proffesion? I dont claim to be intelligent by the way...the weather is just one are which I feel I have a good deal of knowledge on. I find it weird when I am accused by other of disinfo when I agree with other ATS topics like UFO's (and the UFO government cover up) and the paranormal (sorry had to add that)

Although I'm semi retired my proffesion incurred
lot's of travel, and yes it was a three letter organization
what I will say is I held a high security level and performed
duties in both federal and state buildings as well as military
complexes although with the later I was usually
escorted and guarded, I just considered myself as a break
fix kind of a guy in a suit, laid back, easy going and always
open to a good joke.

On another note you have not proven that chemtrails do not
exist nor have we proven so far that they do, so we could say
this is a draw and a moot point, Although if we were to use
world history as a factor for this subject I'm sure even yourself
may come to the conclusion that it is entirely possible.

I sincerely hope that your analogy is correct but for myself
and many others, like bad medicine are finding it rather
hard to swallow.

I have proven that contrails exist, spread out, and can have black lines. One member showed me pictures of the black line thing and I am happy to say his opinion was changed. Of course anything is possible....but not everything is plausible, and chemtrails sprayed at such a height is not plausible. Cloud seeding, chaff and crop spraying do not occur at great heights and have not been proven to cause the same effects that chemtrailers say

I know you have proven Contrails exist but what I said was the you have not proven that Chemtrails DO NOT exist.